jitagon

What is the point in going back and forth trying to argue that the PAD are paid or not?

I think that it would be naive to think that some don't receive money, and the PAD themselves admit that their guards are employed.

Yet we have poster A stating that they have seen ALL PAD receiving money, and then poster B stating that NO PAD receive money.

Until the very unlikely event that evidence (and hearsay does not count as evidence) proving either way then this argument will have no end.

Anyway, whether or not they are protesting because they are paid is not important. What is important is that they ARE protesting.

No no no, you're not getting away with that. No way. NO ONE WHO ATTENDS, HAS ATTENDED A PAD RALLY IS PAID. EVER.

And you're statement 'even the PAD themselves (who? specifically?) admit their guards are employed (sic) From where? Are they employees of a professional security company, for instance. Source?

No more coups in Thailand. For the love of God. NO pain NO gain. Again and again, what 22 so far? Let them sort themselves out in their own way and not you're particular eurocentric view of what's best for 'em huh?

Coup please!.... Not so much worried about "em" as you put it, but I for one would like to see a plane full of tourists and food on the table Friday

Well. What can I say. What foresight. And what about any Friday next year, two years on, ten?

It's people with your kind of thinking's brought about the present world economic crisis. But we wannit NOWWWWW!!!!

If there will be a new election the PPP will win again,simply because they represent the majority of the Thais !!!

The majority of votes come from the people which are easy to buy. Please do not misunderstand. I sympathize with the rural and poor population and am of the opinion, that they were neglected by the elite much too long. But the people in power are ruthless. The play with the poor, win their votes by handing out peanuts to continue their high scale corruption.

Unfortunately the rural population does not understand this and after all they are not interested in the stuff, because they struggle with their own daily life and are more than happy to accept every single Baht.

If a new elections come, it should be very closely monitored.

Now here's a reasoned, thought out, and intelligent post.

No more coups in Thailand. For the love of God. NO pain NO gain. Again and again, what 22 so far? Let them sort themselves out in their own way and not you're particular eurocentric view of what's best for 'em huh?

Now. Just back away from your computer, put down that mouse, that's right, now off you pop with you're teerak to the nearest beach/park/restaurant. And chill.

Civil war - thats the best option!

Machete's and elephants at dawn. Spectators welcome.Seeing as the PAD has both airport why not have both sides fighting on the runways - you already have the stands for viewing.

Thailand poilitics are so so laughable that its only inevitable that this is happening. It's to do with the nations childish psyche,the lack of accountability,men being over pampered by Mummy and Grandma.The superficial smile,man I don't trust no one who smiles all the time.

After living in Thailand for 15yrs,I know I made the right decision taking my wife,2 kids back to England - how can you build a future on sand!

Good luck to you all,get you kevlar jackets ready..............Thailand is DOOMED!

lb1

And you STILL know sod all about Thailand?

Is coup needed? how much would it take for the army to round up the trouble makers and restore law and order??????????

If there's a coup the red shirts will come out in force and be the new trouble makers.

no they wont. they will have nothing to protest against.

The leaders have already said they will come out and fight against the army that takes out their elected government.

Oh don't be silly!

^Perhaps, but the PAD are a bunch of criminals, so what is the difference???

The difference is.....no one else wants to step up to the plate. If not PAD then who?

No one wants to be a garbage man. But someone has to take out the garbage.

Remember, it was ordinary citizens in the US who initiated the fall of Nixon.

I'm actually affected by this. My mom is scheduled to fly into swampy on Dec. 3

for my baby's first birthday. That looks iffy now. I still support PAD.

Read my lips.

The PAD dare not stand for election because they have no popular support.

Read my lips - THE PAD ARE NOT A POLITICAL PARTY - How.Many.Timezzzzz

Ministers Travel by Car to Attend Cabinet Meeting in Chiang Mai

Members of the government are said to be making their way to Chiang Mai by car to attend today's Cabinet meeting there and meet with Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat.

Security is tight at the Green Valley housing estate in Maerim district, where Somchai's residence is located. The media is also out there in full force, waiting to report on Somchai's movement but he remains enclosed in his house after returning from Peru last night.

Reports said Culture Minister Worapoj Auapinyakul and Arisman Pongruengrong have arrived in Chiang Mai by van. Other Cabinet ministers are believed to be traveling by car to the northern province as well as the PAD has blocked all air exits of the ministers.

Somchai is said to be presiding over today's Cabinet meeting in the afternoon at a meeting room at the Chiang Mai City Hall to discuss the current political turmoil.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1010834

-------------------

Amazing. I wonder why PAD didn't anticipate this when they used the excuse of taking over Don Muang to prevent the cabinet meeting in Chiang Mai?

Current parliamentary session ends TOMORROW - Orders from the Boss - Get that bloody amendment through NOW!

^Legally elected and PAD are thugs plain/simple. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO BLOCKADE GOVT BUILDINGS OR AIRPORTS. If you are that thick then I think you need to read up on what peaceful protests are. Any rate - this will end badly and PAD will have no one to blame but themselves. Hmmm hopefully the DAAD will sort them out.

You sum yourself up nicely, what a pathetic ,yet dangerous statement to make

Words of a description not allowed on Thai Visa would be forthcoming that are a lot stronger than Thick

I hope your forecast is not true and the Illegal government do the right and honourable thing by following the sound and reasonable advise they where offered yesterday.

For the record i live in the North East among the local mafiosa who constantly terrorise the locals and order them to vote for their chosen candidates....

Peaceful and democratic.......................you haven,t got a clue.

I humbly suggest instead of spending your time in the bars when you are in Thailand, you get out and about, travel to this area, spend some real quality time here and perhaps you will then think twice before coming out with the quotes of someone who is truly out of touch.

Save your comments for those who would listen and appreciate them.

Me, i have other important priorities that concern our families and their futures..........................Ect.Ect.

The term OLSS comes to mind when i look back on your posts...............if you cannot work it out .................Tough

N. F. Comment

marshbags

Still doesn't seem to have learned to keep his trap shut after the 'go crack some heads' statement he made during the Phuket Airport closure.

I was in the group of restaurants next to the Airport Plaza as it started. The restaurant staff all panicked and shut up the restaurants and gathered up the chairs and tables and slammed the shutters close.

I had to drive down towards the airport to U-turn and traffic was bad but being directed by the police so still moving quiet well. Saw large crowds of mostly red shirts bunched around the airport entrance. Lots of flag waving but it seemed pretty peaceful. Didn't go any further or into the airport for obvious reasons.

Cars were parked up and down both sides of the road and as I came back the other way I saw pick up trucks full of people obviously joining in.

Central Airport Plaza had all there security guys nervously milling around at the entrance and a few Thais were hanging around at the front looking down the road.

I stayed in Airport Plaza until about 7 p.m. and you wouldn't have known there was anything going on inside and there was normal traffic on Hang Dong road as I left.

Anyway, my not very interesting on the spot reporting

No, thanks for that. And for, at least inadvertently, pointing out that if 'News' isn't spiced, or that awful new word brought in during the invasion of Iraq, 'sexed' up, it's not 'News'. Please everyone, let's keep up the perspective.

No I am not american....And what is wrong with a soi dog? A dog is a dog, one dug humps another, and puppies come out. The soi dog foundation, has healthy dogs with all thier shots and medical history. Of all the people I know with dogs in phuket, very few are purebreed. I know what you mean though, the man at the foundation told me it may be risky getting a soi dog puppy, as it may have an illness in his future due to his parents poor health. But still many healthy ones. A dogs a dog to me. they are all loyal if treated properly.

Not the same as the congenital illnesses brought on by inbreeding (which only show up when the dog is at least a year old by the way), rampant amongst 'pedigree' dog breeders then? Temperament wise also. Particularly here where there is no regulatory body at all concerning the health of 'factory pups'.

I can see your heart's in the right place. Stop the prevarication and get yourself off to Soi Dogs and take a look for yourself.

You already know a dog from a shelter will make a pet you won't regret. Just go get one

Received at major news outlets this morning:

People's Alliance for Democracy Announcement 26/2008

on

The Ultimatum for the Prime Minister to Resign Immediately and Without Condition

โดย ASTVผู้จัดการออนไลน์ 26 พฤศจิกายน 2551 09:08 น.

The People's Alliance for Democracy has been rallying continuously since May 25, 2008 for 2 main objectives;

1. To prevent the rewriting of the 2007 Constitution by the proxy government of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra who are trying to amend the charter to whitewash the crimes committed by Thaksin and his cronies and to destroy the country’s judiciary system. The PAD also strives to prevent the proxy government from abolishing the Privy Council, a move which the PAD considers to be a direct violation of His Majesty the King’s authority.

The current Thai Parliament is also considered to be under Thaksin’s complete control. It has committed various wrongdoings and violated election laws, yet continues to claim it represents the people of Thailand. But in truth, the proxy Parliament is a sale to any highest bidding politician. The Constitution court’s imminent deliberation of a various party dissolution cases against several of the government coalition partners is proof enough of the fact that Thakin’s proxy government is not a truly ‘constitutional’ government of Thailand.

2. To drive out the killer government that has shamelessly acted as a nominee for fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra. The government is clearly behind the ruthless killings of Thai citizens, manipulated state media, supports the destruction of the Thai judiciary system, exploits the country’s national budget, condones lese majeste actions, lacks any ethical standing and therefore is deemed to be an illegitimate government which is not fit to administer the Kingdom.

For the above reasons the People's Alliance for Democracy has been rallying peacefully and without arms, a right which is sanctioned by the 2007 Constitution Article 63. Article 70 stipulates that a Thai citizen has the responsibilities to protect the 3 pillars of the country; the nation, religion and the King and the nation’s constitutional monarchy.

However, during the course of the rally the lives and safety of supporters of the People's Alliance for Democracy have been in constant jeopardy. The government is also clearly involved in masterminding various violent attacks against the PAD. It has also turned a blind eye when the PAD was attacked with weapons of war on more than 10 occasions. The ruthless attacks have resulted in countless injuries and 4 deaths. Several attacks were also targeted at the ASTV headquarters in an attempt to prevent that station from broadcasting live the PAD rally. The government has yet to take any responsibility for the underhanded sabotage attempts.

Three Senate committees, tasked with investigating the violence and bloodshed of the October 7th incident, have found that the PM Somchai Wongsawat and his Cabinet ministers are to be held responsible for the injuries and deaths of the protesters. Their findings coincide with that of the National Human Rights Commission. Premier Somchai must take responsibility for the tragedy by resigning immediately and without any condition.

The People's Alliance for Democracy has called for a final mass rally to stop the traitorous government and proxy Parliament on November 23, 2008 at 2 p.m. The final rally is well into its 50th hour and the supporters of the PAD have been pressuring the traitorous government to step down with peaceful means. Armed with only the plastic hand clappers, the PAD protesters have marched to various key locations including Parliament, Finance ministry, the Metropolitan Police Bureau and the government’s temporary seat at Don Muang Airport. However, to no avail, the proxy government has failed to show any sign of remorse or any intention to step down as demanded by the PAD. In addition, it continues to cling on to power and is determined to amend the charter for the interests of its puppet master and his associates.

The People's Alliance for Democracy is left with no choice but to step up its peaceful rally by blocking off access to the Suvarnabhumi Airport. This is considered to be an ultimatum for Somchai Wongsawat and the Cabinet to resign immediately and without any condition.

The people's alliance apologizes for any inconvenience the closure of the Suvarnabhumi Airport may cause to the public and international visitors to the Kingdom of Thailand. But the PAD believes the measure is crucial to bring an end to the traitorous-killer government.

The PAD is calling for the public from all walks of life to join the PAD movement and call for the current administration to resign immediately to protect Thailand from more harm and to restore morals to the Thai society without any further delay.

With deepest respect, People's Alliance for Democracy Tuesday, November 25, 2008

Very telling that ONCE AGAIN a very important and pertinent to the current situation statement, has not been commented upon by any of the mudslingers on this forum. Not for the first time during this long and difficult transition to something resembling a true democracy here in Thailand , I find the overall reaction to something perhaps outside the'comfort zone' of certain of the expats here to be much more, um, interesting, than the events themselves. Pass The Crucible anyone?

I'm a first time poster here, but I am not a troll. No, seriously. Really. Honest.

I've been in Thailand for only a couple of weeks, so I don't yet know anything about what the heck is going on here.

None of the news reports are documenting the differences between the PPP and PAD party platforms and that just seems weird.

I am leaning towards the PPP for two reasons:

1. The PAD proposal to select legislators based upon their current occupations seems to be a couple thousand years behind the times. In today's dynamic free market economies, people change careers (not just jobs) four to six times during their lives. This proposal makes the PAD appear to be quite "unsophisticated" politically.
   
2. Street violence is another less than endearing quality for a political party. Does anyone really want to give power to a bugs of street thugs?
   

On the flip side though, Thaksin really was convicted and his trial appears to have been at least reasonably fair. But, technically, he's not in power now.

As an outsider, it seems as if this conflict has no ideological basis. How do the PPP and PAD differ ideologically? How would they govern the country differently? Is there any real difference between the two?

Is this conflict just a personal squabble between Thaksin and Limthongkul? If not, what is this conflict about?

OK, I'll be the one to say it.

THE PAD IS NOT A POLITICAL PARTY!.

Please digest.

WOW at last somebody tells it like it is.

So what the hel_l are they doing in politics if they are not interested in Politics.

Spoiling, sniping and annoying thats what they are.

You don't seem to be very conversant with the term 'political' as against, shall we say, being a political Party do you? One need not necessarily be a member per se of a Political Party to be political. Let me explain. The word 'political', in it's broadest sense, means 'of the people', therefore, one can be interested in politics, ergo 'political' without necessarily forming a 'party' (a group of persons interested in formulating a particular agenda to present to their particular town, city, country), to ask for a mandate to govern along that particular formulae.

Ipso facto: One need not 'be in politics' insofar as I understand from your post, intending to form aforesaid 'party' to be, um 'political'. Do you understand? Your ultimate sentence suggests that perhaps you er, might not?

methinks grandpops posteth too much.

Let us be calm. The pieces are moving on a vast board

yes, I need a jam sandwich, then I'll get back to the revolution.

SO WHY QUESTION AGAIN IS WHAT IS IT THAT THEY ARE PROTESTING, WHAT DO THEY WANT.????

cAN YOU ANSWER THAT FOR ME? JD??

I don't have all the answers, but PAD, even with their faults, are staging non-violent, effective, sustained and well-attended protests in order to (among other things) try to rid Thailand from the scourge of Thaksin. A man who paid his way to power on the back of promises he knew he couldn't keep. a lot more disparaging things could be said about Thaksin and his brood, but you've heard so much already.

note: In Byzantine, hundreds of years ago, there were riots between the green shirts and the blue shirts.

I'm still appreciative that the red shirts haven't had direct confrontations recently with the yellows. Is it because the reds are restrained or because they can't muster enough folks to counter the yellows?

It's also mucho appreciarlo that the police and military haven't responded heavy-handedly. bravo!

first time I've seen the words 'red's (shirts) and 'restrained' in the same sentence.

This is the problem in Thailand. It seems that the army giving orders and telling the government what it should do. The army was not elected. It has not right to interfere with the government. The army has no role in politics except protecting the people.

How many more times would you like the army to say 'we will not stage a coup'?

The army is doing its best to stay out of trouble but its in a pretty difficult position. Things would improve if a number of ex-politicians banned for electoral fraud - who have no right to intefere with the government - would stop trying to install their relatives and puppet nominee Prime Ministers.

Listen! The role of the army is not only to "not stage a coup" but to defend the country when it is in peril and not in the jurisdiction of the police anymore. In that case, from a minority of violent fanatics driven by fascists leaders who engaged in illegal and thoughtless criminal actions, because of the lack of support from the public, such as taking the main international airport.

You're talking about Taksin's Fan Club, right?

Hand on your heart, do you really think they would try anything in Chiang Mai?

In the urban center of Chiang Mai there IS considerable support for the Democrat Party, and possibly even PAD. It's definitely 'possible'. Not sure if it's 'likely' but at the very least it provides an opportunity for Red minded people to do something to show THEIR voice.

I think all centers of larger cities are pro Democrats/PAD as there are usually the better educated/more wealthy/business people who are usually supporter of PAD and Democrats.

But Chiang mai for sure is not a city in which the PAD want to have a showdown with the red ones.

Outside Bangkok and the South, there are very few places where PAD has any real following.

The so called city centre middle class perceive they are better educated, but knowing the Thai system it is all relative.

And you Know This For Certain - How? Well, where are their counter demonstrations then, come on, where are they? Yoohoo!

Exactly what I meant, Grandpops..

Watch out, events like these can unfold very fast. Better not sleep tonight...

You're kidding right?

I've just come back from Chiang Mai airport and it is a sea of red shirts and BIB at the entrance to the airport. Cars and other vehicles entering the airport are being closely scrutinised by the pro-government supporters. I saw more than a handful of protesters armed with sticks, clubs, poles and pieces of wood.

Anyone heading to the airport be aware that they will have to pass through two lines of pro-government supporters. The traffic is fairly heavy as well.

The crowd was fairly good natured when I was there but given how many people are armed (in addition to the weapons mentioned above I saw catapults, flails made out of heavy duty cable and other stuff) it could easily get out of hand.

More pictures here.

Wot no AKA 47s?

Dangerous stuff with closing Suvarnabhumi airport

OOOOooooOOOhhhh

Anupong is like a beam of bright light in a forest of terrible darkness. He's consistently the only one with anything that makes any sense.

If this happens I hope the political parties are forced to become Political Parties with manifestoes that are broadcast to the people every hour so that the country can chnage the political landscape into one where parties are voted in for their policies - not for some character out for himself.

Yes well he has a lot to 'beam' about - having been paid off 50 , to date, by his boss.

Somchai's just touched down in Chiang Mai. Let's see what happens ... NOW!

Believe me, PAD have no intention of a fair election taking place. None whatsoever.

Of course not, but it's easy for peoples in charge like Sondhi to manipulate so uneducated and clueless peoples like the ones you can see at PAD rallies with their clappers.

The intelligent and educated ones know exactly what they are doing: taking back power once and for all while giving an impression of "fair election" and "democracy"

Um. Let me get this straight. You believe that the people making up the Pantamit are uneducated and clueless?

And the intelligent and educated ones are, who, exactly?

I agree that the military are being very clever here BUT what concerns me is that if the PAD are not broken now then who ever gets elected in the future can bring these fanatics back out onto the streets and back to square one. Its a never ending scenario

And lets not lose the point that PAD actions have nothing to do with democracy its for personal self interest by their leaders and thats it.

In what way? Please elucidate. Hope you're not suggesting a very large gathering of persons wishing to rid Thailand of it's nepotistic, money politics, have been camping out for the past six months or so (this time), merely to supplant the thugs and bandits that make up the current proxy government controlled by the megalomaniac that is Taksin. Or are you?

Please see this new topic about Gen. Anupong's call for the dissolution of parliament:

www.thaivisa.com/forum/Gen-Anupong-suggests-House-dissolu-t225219.html

--

Maestro

And that has /what/ to do with the airport topic?

I assume it's now okay again to have a wider debate about the situation?

If a topic is only about the airport or travel situation then there does exist a spanking Suvarnabhumi sub-forum on this site.

It's obvious isn't it?

If the Government dissolves, Premier resigns, no reason for PAD to continue protests and occupations.... simple!

i guess Winnie the Kwai pointing out, in an ironic manner, some previous attempt to delete anything what is may strong reletated to the PAD or the current political situation but didn't describe what current going on at the airport building. the have been a lot of post deleted in the Airport topic with the reason "Off Topic". not easy to define what is "off topic" and i have the feeling sometimes it is used as a lame excuse.

and i guess Winnie maybe got his own posts deleted as well, with the "off topic" reason given. but now Winnie spots an other such "off topic" post and expressed his confusion about it.

It's obvious isn't it? simple TVforum mechanics.

Yes, I was rather put out that my, I thought, considered post on the whole situation was deleted with the 'off topic's' some pages on, whilst there were many many other hysterical posts, having nothing at all to do with the airport closure, being allowed to remain.

I suppose that if you keep on demanding re-elections you will eventually ------------------------------get a result that you are happy with .

Exactly! Spouse told me Anupong is a big friend of Taksin, and even went all the way to London for a catch up on old times and all that Now gameplan is: military reluctantly step in, dissolve house, call new elections, and guess who's set up to win ... again. So step forward Peua Pan Din aka Taksin's cousin and on and on it goes.