Digger

I believe this is why Cathay Pacific has virtually no Chinese born captains working in its fleet and I have heard it before from many HKG based expats that in times of 'hi stress' incidents, the Chinese have a tendancy to panic. No idea how accurate it is but seems to be consistent with what I have heard and seen in my time in Asia.

Incidentally to an earlier poster, after probably 500 Thai airways flights in last 10 years, I have only ever heard Thai captains and first officers voices coming from the cockpit - never a foreigner, unlike aformentioned Cathay and Singapore airlines who have a very high percentage of foreign pilots, notably from UK, Australia, US and Canada.

Cyberstar just curious as I am getting concerned about this - do you work for a BOI company ? Maybe if you explain a little bit about the size and profitability of your company would go a long way to putting the rest of our minds at more ease. I for one am concerned as our company has been established for 3 years and our accumulated losses are going to exceed our capital paid in (2,000,000 due to depreciation laws and the fact that we keep using our income (6,000,000 baht in last year) to expand our business through more capital expenditure. Our business is cash positive but maybe I am worrying unduly and we have more than enough to meet our obligations and the reason we spend so much is to grow quickly. Incidentally we have a director loan account which started at 16,000,000 baht and is now down to about 12,000,000 baht which was done to minimise income tax through salary and dividends hence we have a low capital.

Many thanks

Digger

Some of these comments are why I no longer spend much time on Thaivisa.com - I just get so bored reading through stupid comments from people who sprout that they know things when its obvious to anyone that they know the best part of nothing.

Simple facts are that Pattaya is continuing to grow at a very fast rate and its continuing to attract more high net worth people than ever before. The growth is taking place all over the city - condo's ARE being sold to owner occupiers with purchase prices between 3-20,000,000 baht. Houses have been sold with values way over 12,000,000 baht etc etc. From what I can see, there is a very little in the way of 'corrections' taking place - if the property was crap - it will still not sell, as it has not sold for the last 5 years of the 'boom'. I have seen 'speculative' developers getting burnt as they are either under resourced, under skilled or a combination of both and for the most part these guys are going to decide the 'legal' structure of a developer is not for them and probably cut their losses and do something else like open a bar or whatever is the next in 'fad' of an idea.

But if you look at foreigners who have developed sound business plans, ideas and have adequate funding, they continue to do VERY well in Pattaya. I can think of numerous housing estates that are delivering totally high end products and they are completely full (in particular one that rents all the properties to the high end expats that Suiging was talking about) and these places are relatively very expensive to the market norm. How are they achieving this - probably no different to anywhere else, they have an excellent product, its very well maintained and the service delivery works. Its the same with premium grade condo's - they are all continuing to sell - that is the reality of the marketplace these days - forget Soi Bukhow and all the 49baht beer drinkers - they have never been shaping how this city develops - they are just tolerated. If you cant see that, then you need to wake up and move on. Just last week I was looking at another website where some guy was boasting about his 69 baht full English Breakfast on Soi bukhow - good luck to him as he was saying how his volume has doubled in as many weeks - but the reality is if the only thing you can sell on is price, you really need to go back to business school as this place is unlikely to be around in 12-18 months. I guess thats why so many people fail in business in this country as they have no understanding of actually operating a real business and making money. He is going to be stuck in the Crazy Dave situation that he basically can NEVER lift his prices, as all his customers will go - a fact that I think will hit home when he realises that 69b for a full English breakfast is totally uneconomic yet all he is probably thinking is that the component ingrediants add up to say 49b so selling at 69b = 20 baht profit on everyone sold. If his breakfast is so good, why is he not selling it for 120 baht which is the average market price in the area???? Begs the question how good are his business skills.

And to the original poster, if you can pick up a house for about 6,000,000 baht down from 12,000,000 seriously ask yourself why its being sold at 6,000,000 baht.

Digger is just on here talking the market up in a bid to stop it imploding.

Most of the completions of sales now were initiated before all the visa, coup, strong baht effects. The money is drying up but will take a while to be felt in the pocket.

You should go back to business school as well. If you can attract people to your restaurant with a 69baht breakfast and double the numbers, you have customers on your premises to whom you could sell other items, tours, diving, visa runs, beers, morning coffees. If nothing else you have expanded your customer base and very probably made some friends along the way. Just one of these new friends could lead to a whole new opportunity, as they often do. We have little invested here individually and will not be hurt too hard by any changes in laws.

In contrast to fat failing developers who everybody hates and will be glad to see the back of when their "Consultants" workpermits are cancelled next time round. They are the ones that have blatently cheated the system, from fraudulent work permit descriptions, dodgy company/land ownership companies, encroachment, environmental pollution, inflated building costs and corruption.

We have had three major developments raided this week in Phuket alone. The powers that be in Bangkok are now using Google Earth type software from the safety of their desks (immune from attmepts to pay them off) to identify who is building or has built on illegal land, too high up etc. This next year or so its going to be squeal piggy developer squeal.

We get people like Digger on all the time. There have been at least three threads blatently from developers bullshitting the market up. All IMHO of course!

Why do you think I am talking the market up? I have no reason to do so - I am just responding to the real situation in Pattaya which is what I know as I have a house here where I spend the weekend. It makes no difference to me if the market implodes - I am not planning on selling my house here. But the simple fact is that PATTAYA (not Phuket) continues to grow and evolve - that is a simple fact that many seem unable to comprehend. Sure the bottom rung of cheap drinkers and pussy mongers will rant and rave but seriously there are a whole new set of people moving into and around Pattaya - its obvious to see for anybody with half a brain cell. These people are not going to the types who do visa runs - they are way too intelligent to have other solutions in hand. I have no problem with rogue developers getting their cards marked - overall I think its a good thing - but I have no recent experience of Phuket - its purely Pattaya that I am commenting on which is the subject of this thread.

Finally your comment about the restaurant is typical of people who have no idea of running a profitable business in Thailand. A business is in business to make money - its not in business to provide a service or drop in place for whoever wants to do so. This whole debacle about friends is ridiculous - they are not friends they are customers who are fickle and for the most part unloyal if all you can sell on is price and a price which is uneconomic - the simple truth is that business does not suceed on turnover or goodwill - it is totally dependant upon cash and profit which is a scenario I think our friend will find all to soon with his 69 baht breakfasts, providing of course, the VAT man does not close him down first or immigration police deport him for not having a work permit. The idea that a restaurant can suddenly become a travel agency is laughable and shows a serious case of clutching at straws to try and survive day to day. These guys are seen time and time again, but the simple reality is that you cannot build a profitable business on selling things below your costs.

Some of these comments are why I no longer spend much time on Thaivisa.com - I just get so bored reading through stupid comments from people who sprout that they know things when its obvious to anyone that they know the best part of nothing.

Simple facts are that Pattaya is continuing to grow at a very fast rate and its continuing to attract more high net worth people than ever before. The growth is taking place all over the city - condo's ARE being sold to owner occupiers with purchase prices between 3-20,000,000 baht. Houses have been sold with values way over 12,000,000 baht etc etc. From what I can see, there is a very little in the way of 'corrections' taking place - if the property was crap - it will still not sell, as it has not sold for the last 5 years of the 'boom'. I have seen 'speculative' developers getting burnt as they are either under resourced, under skilled or a combination of both and for the most part these guys are going to decide the 'legal' structure of a developer is not for them and probably cut their losses and do something else like open a bar or whatever is the next in 'fad' of an idea.

But if you look at foreigners who have developed sound business plans, ideas and have adequate funding, they continue to do VERY well in Pattaya. I can think of numerous housing estates that are delivering totally high end products and they are completely full (in particular one that rents all the properties to the high end expats that Suiging was talking about) and these places are relatively very expensive to the market norm. How are they achieving this - probably no different to anywhere else, they have an excellent product, its very well maintained and the service delivery works. Its the same with premium grade condo's - they are all continuing to sell - that is the reality of the marketplace these days - forget Soi Bukhow and all the 49baht beer drinkers - they have never been shaping how this city develops - they are just tolerated. If you cant see that, then you need to wake up and move on. Just last week I was looking at another website where some guy was boasting about his 69 baht full English Breakfast on Soi bukhow - good luck to him as he was saying how his volume has doubled in as many weeks - but the reality is if the only thing you can sell on is price, you really need to go back to business school as this place is unlikely to be around in 12-18 months. I guess thats why so many people fail in business in this country as they have no understanding of actually operating a real business and making money. He is going to be stuck in the Crazy Dave situation that he basically can NEVER lift his prices, as all his customers will go - a fact that I think will hit home when he realises that 69b for a full English breakfast is totally uneconomic yet all he is probably thinking is that the component ingrediants add up to say 49b so selling at 69b = 20 baht profit on everyone sold. If his breakfast is so good, why is he not selling it for 120 baht which is the average market price in the area???? Begs the question how good are his business skills.

And to the original poster, if you can pick up a house for about 6,000,000 baht down from 12,000,000 seriously ask yourself why its being sold at 6,000,000 baht.

With the change in requirements where it seems, you have to be able to show a substantially stronger company than its liabilities, for me at least one way would appear to be actually showing the market worth of some land our company owns and has developed over what we originally paid for it. In essence we acquired farm land for a song and then have developed it meaning in commerical terms its value has risen from circa 1500 baht a TW (whch is what its currently shown in our audited balance sheet as) to a market value of 22,000 baht a TW (based on recent bank valuation). This would have an impact on our balance sheet of at least doubling our assets to be over 30,000,000 baht from current level of circa 14,000,000 baht. We have director loans that also sit around 12,000,000 baht + our original capital of 2,000,000 baht. Our income is good enough to cover all the salaries of not only our expat staff but also all our Thai staff at circa 6,000,000 baht per annum versus expenses of some 3,000,000 baht however we keep re-investing this income to do more activity and acquire more assets so its not looking like pure profit.

The question is does anybody know what is the accepted methods of valuation? It appears the land office are still using the old value of circa 1,500 baht. Would a bank valuation be considered acceptable in the company accounts or otherwise do we need to hire a specialist valuation company to make a judgement on current value. Now is the time I need to do this as our year end just closed and my work permit is due at end of December.

Many thanks

the Pattaya train is WAY overcrowded ... frequently no seats avail ... people standing over you the whole way etc etc

Are you sure??? Everytime I have got caught at various crossroads in East Pattaya when its passing, there looks to be about 3 people on it - and one of those is the driver. Might be different of course coming out of Bangkok.

Water turning black after adding chemicals to a newly filled pool is very common in Pattaya - I guess its due to the high iron content - when you look at a small sample, the water is actually red not black. Its easy to sort it out - just phone someone like Home & Pool and hire their drum filter system for about 600 baht day and leave it running until the pool is crystal clear. The drum filter is excellent because it traps all the reddy black muck and you simply wash out the drum filters maybe twice a day with a regular garden hose. The main pool filters should also be running while this is on and in 48 hours your pool will look great.

If your idea of heaven is living next to a bunch of other 'budget' farang and Thai residents - then go for it. But it aint exactly the kind of place, you will relish visiting at the weekends IMHO unless your just looking for a really cheap place where you dont plan onleaving anything of any value that could be stolen or sold. Also there seems to be an unusually high occurence of deaths occuring in this complex which is probably consistent with its loser status.

If Shangri La can guarantee you a refurbished bedroom - its definately the best on that list for overall ambience and 5* luxury overlooking the river - the public areas are what set this hotel apart, as they always do with Shangri-La hotels. Sheraton has larger and subjectively better rooms (but its a newer hotel), but the hotel has no soul - it just feels like an airport executive lounge in my opinion. Incidentally I have stayed in both hotels many times. Sheraton also has the downside of everyone assuming the lady your with is a hooker as you walk along Sukhumvit.

But for me, my favourite overall remains the Four Seasons (formerly the Regent).

The American must have looked like Rambo strolling down soi VC - carrying that amount of firepower its hardly surprising he stood out. However cant help but wonder what on earth the water police were doing in Soi VC.

I would imagine the new CRV will be around the same price as the old one - Honda does not normally change its strategy as they introduce new models - infact sometimes the replacements are cheaper.

I work on the assumption that all spirits in Gogo's are copies and for the most part beer bars. I dont know of any gogo bar that sells only genuine spirits - they all have the real stuff, but you have to make clear you wont accept a copy and even then send it back repeatedly when its wrong. Having said that, I have for the most part given up trying and just drink bottled beer when I go out these days.

Makes me laugh about my first work permit medical certificate - I was not even in the country when it was issued - as I recall I was on a business trip somewhere. According to my secretary it cost 100 baht.

I think one of the big problems Nissan faced was that they were unique among the bigger brands in not actually owning their business here. It has until recently been owned by a Thai family - that is now resolved and Nissan have bought them out, thereby controlling the entire operation. I expect they will continue to from strength to strength as new models come out and they improve their dealer network which frankly lags behind Toyota and Honda at least in outward appearance.

Couple of places spring to mind for me at least - but they are all in East Sukhumvit

Mid range: Greenfield Villas - nicely done, good asthetics, has a nice feel to it.

Upper range: Maprachan Gardens - excellent quality but at a price and good asthetics

Swiss Paradise Village: Nice houses - mostly large

Laurel Park: Excellent asthetics, very well maintained - but houses not for sale only for rent and they are not cheap.

The house registration document and planning permission approval will be in a name - presumably your wifes - that effectively is the document that says you own the building and the approval notice shows the size of the building being approved (i.e 400 sq m or whatever it is) but it is not the blueprint. The blueprint should also have a stamp on the back of each page that basically links it to the approval letter or at least thats what I believe mine says - Improtant to keep the two together (ie blueprint with the stamps and the white approval letter) as the building registration document does not go into details about *what* has been approved, just the address and who owns it. When I built my house, the house registration document was all issued at the same time as the approval letter and long before anything was built on it. Infact as I recall the authority only allowed one year between that approval and work getting underway on the property they had approved.

You must be making this up surely Simon???????

Surely you have not built a resort on someones land without having your 30 year lease already registered at the land office? Furthermore please tell me you have not built it without planning permission at which point your building registration book is issued and street address allocated?

Perhaps things work differently in Phuket, but surely not so different from the rest of Thailand???

All true. My gripe with Bob's is all the hype they put out, which is a darn site more impressive than their food.

Maybe they're doing the best they can in Pattaya (but 'no have' for basic menu items never seems to me to be the best anyone can do anywhere). Still, darn it all, don't claim to be something you aren't (and can't be) and lure people in with a bunch of BS. They just get pissed off at you and tell the world. Dumb.

That sums up the problem with a lot of 'farang' places in Pattaya - he had a good idea but has poorly executed it with a bad location, bad decor and pitched it too cheap. By being so cheap he has no margin for wastage hence many things are not available. Seems to happen all too often in Pattaya.

Thats not a great surprise about Land Rover - they have some 400 Freelanders in stock in Thailand and have just announced a new model being launched in the UK. They are probably selling less than 200 a year on current volumes so you can see how big a stockpile they have got themselves.

The Ford Escape also has 0% financing at the moment.

Mercedes benz will often 0% finance a C or E class model made in Thailand but I dont know of any others.

The Motorway is old news - its been on the plans for about 6 years that I know of - its an extension of the 6 lane highway that comes down from Lam Chabang. The latest plans are pretty much confirmed, but to say what you said is naive - bet your friend never thought to *ask* anyone at the time of purchase, "is anything due to be built here in the future" - you know like common sense due dilligence. Big areas around Crocodile Farm are going to be affected as it the area directly next to the Siam Lake View estate on Soi Siam Country Club. The road will basically go around the Regents School side of Maprachan lake and then split - one way going to 3rd Road in Pattaya and crossing Sukhumvit in between the Index and SB furniture Malls - the other fork will go down towards Rayong and cross Soi Siam Country Club just to the side of the Siam Lake View estate.

Villa stock "Watties" Baked beans which are from New Zealand - Watties is the Heinz brand in NZ and the beans are the same as that sold as Heinz in the UK. They aint cheap though - I think I noticed about 110 baht for a large tin.

Cant say I am surprised about your decision - I have noticed the shop a couple of times, but could not be bothered to find somewhere to park and walk to the shop - lazy I know but there are heaps of stores where parking is easy and they get my custom everytime.

HIV/AIDS is indeed a very real problem, but before the situation can be changed the root causes have to be identified and addressed.

The OP seems to be targeting his angst toward “fat white sex tourists” and farang in general.

His words imply that it is farang who are responsible for the spread of HIV/AIDS in Thailand.

Does he honestly believe that these innocent little farm girls all have a clean bill of health when they first arrive in the bright lights to pursue their chosen or parentally selected ‘career’?

The stark reality is that many of these girls were infected in their villages before they had ever set eyes on a farang.

Education pertaining to HIV/AIDS awareness within Thai communities has to be the cornerstone for stemming the spread of HIV/AIDS.

Of course farang bars catering for ignorant/irresponsible farang customers who practice unprotected sex will contribute to the spread of HIV/AIDS, but that is secondary to the core issue.

Exactly my experience of how infection was spread to the girl who's treatment I pay for. She had been working as a service girl in a Gogo (farang owned but no testing for her) - she believes although cannot be sure - that she was infected by her then boyfriend - They had split up 5 years before and he was much older - she was 16 at the time - end result in how she reached that conclusion - he has already died of AIDS. With treatment, she is in excellent health with a normal CD4 level and undetectable viral load - she also claims to be celebate - "i'm not risking my health again for any man" so she tells me - anytime a guy tries to pick her up she says she is a tomboy !!! Incidentally she does not work in the bar anymore, but another lesson there - she was not tested in the 3 years she had been working there. "me service, I not get tested like dancer"

Sounds like a good example of why going to seeing a specialist doctor is critical in these kinds of circumstances - just imagine the outcome if you were positive and did not see a specialist doctor - the cost of the doctor was probably around 500/600 baht for a consultation - small price to pay for the peace of mind.

Most of us would be pretty skeptical and reluctant to make such "advance payments" in these circumstances - either in Thailand or our home countries. For example, I won't even make a $15USD insurance co-payment to my doctor in cash without a written receipt.

You should be pretty sharp by now having lived in Thailand for awhile. What was supposed to be the advantage to you with the advance payments? Did you not have the total amount ready to complete the deal at once?

Your "lawyer" may have kept a portion of the "take". I don't believe this is someone you can work with again except through another (reputable) lawyer.

Thank you for posting your difficulty - should be educational for others - and at least we can offer suggestions. You can take my comments in the context of someone who doesn't really even trust ATM transactions in Thailand.

kenk3z

You will see once you see many of Simon's post's that common sense and good judgement does not often go hand in hand with his business decisions. Still, always makes for entertaining reading.