CaptainSplod

Exactly! I'd certainly be embarrassed to have to try to explain to an applicant that the hours we'd agreed upon a couple of months ago were suddenly doubled up (or more) - and it's probably much more embarrassing for a Thai!

Cheers

Splod

@ Kwasaki

If you look at the sample timetable in post # 236, there is room for both Date and Time, so there is a possibility that you would be provided with a slightly different timetable for each month, to cover the exact 50 hours, This is, after all, presumably only a 4-month project, at maximum (now only 3 months, actually, if I'm not mistaken!).

Cheers

Splod

Hi goodguy!

Sounds very much like your story will rather unfortunately repeat itself in many areas in the days ahead.

A tripling (more!) of your earlier agreed working hours is just too much - and I'm naturally not surprised that you declined the offer. Your description of the whole thing tends to confirm our own information from a couple of days ago.

Still, I don't suppose it's any fun, either, for the Thai bringer of the bad news (in your case, the school principal) and it must feel rather strange to have to try and defend the decision taken by OBEC to implement the project in this manner. I don't doubt that many of the local schools would have been more than happy enough to have a NES guy for the earlier agreed upon hours.

As far as I'm aware, the schools are not allowed to change the basic "50 hour @ 200 baht" principle, so you probably won't receive a better/different offer.

Naturally, there will be people happy enough to accept the new OBEC working schedule - and it's of course everybody's own choice as to how they choose.

One can only "hope" that enough people will likewise refuse the offer, so that the project ends as a complete wash-out and is forced to be started again, with a more reasonable plan and a better and continuous exchange of information.

It's just too ridiculous to leave both schools and applicants completely in the dark for so long!

I'm not competent enough to answer your WP question (though I suspect it is the local Department of Labour). Maybe another poster can help you more with this.

Cheers

Splod

Well - firstly, congratulations! You appear to be the first one to receive any definite news.

Mind you, it doesn't sound at all good that you were approached in that manner. ("Jesus H. Christ!!" comes to mind)

May I enquire - was it one of your schools that approached you, or was it the Area Education Centre?

Too, were you approached verbally or were there any documents involved?

Thanks for informing us of your 'ordeal' - we'll certainly be prepared to expect something similar......

Cheers

Splod

Hopefully, the smaller, poorer up-country students will benefit in terms of learning and all teachers in terms of treatment!

Like the tablet computer for 1st graders fiasco, this is just going to be another poorly administered cluster**** that will ultimately succeed in lining the pockets of a few well placed Puiyai within the various Thai bureaucracies while providing little if any real benefits for the teachers and students, especially in the poorest of the rural locations.

Hmm....Yes, Well....as Connda says, I can't really see this project benefiting the smaller, rural schools in the end - as many of them simply aren't large enough to warrant any support from the government.

I'm aware that some schools have sought to get around that, by 'joining up' with other schools, in the hope of sharing a NES speaker.

If the OBEC rules are to go by, then working at more than one school isn't an option and I'm left wondering which, if any, of the small schools will get a NES speaker. And does it also mean that NES applicants will be delegated to whatever school OBEC or others think fit?

I'm certainly looking forward to some clear (?) answers if and when anybody bothers to contact me.

Earlier in the day I was reading through some things and was left wondering just how many millions of baht have already been spent on cooking up this project, producing letters, forms and documents to all - plus organising and having to pay for various meetings, conferences and hotel rooms to hammer things in place. All this for what appears to be a 3 month teaching period - for as far as we know, nobody yet has the faintest idea what will happen after September this year.

It would indeed be nice to be proven wrong on many of the more negative points - though I must admit my optimism and enthusiasm for this project has dwindled to next to nothing over the last couple of months.

Cheers

Splod

Some more things concerning the hiring of NES speakers.

Not at all sure if these are the final documents to be used for the successful applications, as we don't see any contract-like document that has actually to be signed by the applicant.

There is no accompanying explanation of the documents - possibly not necessary for the schools, that are used to dealing with such documents.

We're rather guessing as to the intended purpose of the documents!

Too, there are two blank documents in the batch we've accessed - maybe these blanks are reserved for other, perhaps important, documents (contract?, WP waiver?, "get out of jail free" card?).

Here we go -

Invit 1 - Thai version of "Invitation Letter to Work at XXX School" - presumably used by the school.

Invit 2 - English version of "Invitation Letter to Work at XXX School" - presumably sent to the applicant.

Invit 3 - Thai version of "Classroom Timetable" - presumably used by the school.

Invit 4 - English version of "Classroom Timetable" - presumably sent to the applicant.

Invit 5 - Monthly? payment of work, to be signed by the applicant (only in Thai)

Invit 6 - Applicant's In- and Out times at the school, Control Sheet used by the school/government

Maybe more stuff will turn up - and maybe these documents will be changed or replaced along the way - it's a "maybe" country we're living in.

Cheers

Splod

Here's the said document - enjoy!

NES-Thai.pdf

Yep - I and the wife checked and double-checked the wording - as this affects me, too. These are the current requirements (as per 13th June) from OBEC - and I can only assume this decision will create a lot of confusion among the schools and NES people.

Many schools have already "pre-arranged" the working hours with their prospective NES people - to get them to apply for the position - and I'm not at all sure it'll go down well that the hours have now suddenly been substantially increased - and in many cases, doubled.

As is becoming ever more frequent - "if we'd known about this right from the start, then we'd never have bothered to apply".

Personally, if these are the final requirements for NES assistants, then I can't see too many people wanting to sign on the dotted line.

I thought it best to share the news, now, to avoid any sudden shock when NES people are finally contacted about their applications - and also to avoid any school work contracts being signed without people knowing that they'd be working for many hours more than they'd originally agreed to.

However, there is still some time before things will (perhaps) be set in motion - and maybe OBEC will issue a new decision, or a new set of rules, before then.......

Cheers

Splod

Hi Guys!

We're getting a trickle of news, here, that may or may not be of interest to you.

Please take the following info with a (big) pinch of salt, as this is Thailand and info changes on an almost daily basis.

Here's what we've been informed of -

1. The application forms for "most" areas have now been accepted by OBEC - unless you have already been disqualified, obviously.

2. Schools and Area Education Centres have until 20th of June to check that their forms are correct and that the farang is still available.

3. OBEc (Office of Basic Education) stipulates that all school follow the exact same principles :

- A NES person can only work at one school, working at multiple schools is not allowed.

- If you already work as a teacher, then you are not allowed to be a NES person in this OBEC project.

- The NES person is required to work exactly 50 hours a month, no more, no less.

- Forms will be supplied to the school to check the NES in- and out times.

- The responsible Area Education Centre will be required to occasionally visit the school to ascertain the standard of NES teaching.

At present, there is still no information regarding visa, work permit, possible tax payments - or anything else concerning the farang NES.

Cheers

Splod

Agreed - and personally I don't really see what difference it makes just who gets the job, as long as a school is supplied with a NES person - and that the NES is available and willing to work.

It's more than ridiculous to let schools have nobody at all, rather than subsidize a person that already works at another school. If that's the general rule, then many schools way out in the sticks will never see a NES person - there just aren't any/enough people to fill the positions.

Like yourself, I could quite easily work at 2 or more schools in my area without too much bother - but maybe it'll have to be only one school in the end. All the other schools will then presumably be left out in the cold.

Makes you wonder who actually thinks these things out - as there has never been any apparent and well organised plan when this (ahem) "project" was originally started....

Many of the applications wouldn't have been made at all if the rules were beforehand known - for who wants to waste their own - and others' - time applying for a position that quite obviously won't be filled.

A BS government incentive ? Absolutely!

Cheers

Well, this thread seems to have gone very quiet lately, so I guess I'll try and liven it up again and see if there are any updates.

Here, we still haven't had a word or a whisper from anybody as to whether there'll be any "assisting" or not - and it'll soon be two months ago that we first asked about applying.

Our information sources (for what they're worth) seem to have disappeared into oblivion along the way and we're hearing next to nothing. Mind you, there's probably very little happening - so not much info to pass on.

In fact, just about everybody we have contact with seems to have lost interest in this project, which isn't at all surprising, is it......

It appears that some schools have NES guys working, but there's no information available (to us) as to whether these guys are part of the new(ish) government subsidy scheme, or not.

We've so far heard of 2 people on this forum have have their applications rejected. Hopefully, they're pursuing other ways of "assisting" at schools.

I wonder - has anybody actually received an official "accept" of their application, yet?

Or, indeed - does anybody know of someone that has had their application approved?

Just wondering, like, as the September finishing line is ever approaching..............

Cheers

Splod

To be honest, I don't really know if calling OBEC would help your case any. It's just one of the many places in Thailand that reject people, just because they can. Too, there's a chance that they'll "remember" you, should you apply again for a different position...

I still think you'd stand a better chance of success by going through one (or more) of your schools. Maybe another poster has more experience of this sort of thing and can advise you much better than I can.

".....population center (not BKK), and they settled on a young Filipino woman in the end. "

Are "they", in this case - OBEC or the school(s)?

If "they" are OBEC, then I'd imagine that you're still in a good position to talk to your school(s) to try and get them to persuade OBEC to accept your original application. Let's face it, most schools would much prefer to have a NES assist with teaching, rather than a non-NES. It adds a certain "status" to the school - something Thais love.

Naturally, if "they" is a reference to your school(s), then there's probably not a lot you can do...

Your obvious disadvantage is in the fact that you live in a very populous area - and that non-NES guys are "cheaper" than NES guys. If you should accept the verdict from OBEC or have no success with your school(s), then the only thing left to do is to try other schools in less-populated areas. As has already been stated - there are many schools in the country that are crying out for a NES (even a non-NES) - but can't get anyone, as there are none available at all in their area.

If you know where your Area Education Office (AEO) is, then try asking there - as they serve many schools in the area - sometimes in areas a bit further away, too. Also, the AEO communicate with other AEOs, so they may know of another area, close by, that is looking for a teacher/NES. You'd probably have to take along a Thai, as they often don't speak a lot of English at the AEOs.

Take a look at the ajarn website, too - there are plenty of teaching/NES jobs available in the more remote areas.

Good luck with whatever you choose - and do please keep us informed

Cheers

Splod

A nice one, Plopmeister! A month's gone by, already?

That was quick! - and that means it's now around 6 weeks since I signed up for this programme.......

and still haven't heard a sausage.....

Ah, well - back to planting the peanuts, kale and onions - it's a busy time every day!

Cheers - and lend us a quid

Splod

@Christian1950 - yes, that's very rough, indeed! I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty in understanding whether you applied for a position as a teacher - or one of the new ASEAN NES positions (assisting).

If you applied for a NES position, then I'm indeed very surprised if you've been turned down, for as you say, many places just can't get anybody at all to assist......

If being 60 or over is grounds for rejection, then I'll certainly be out of the running, as well, which would strike me as being extremely weird - especially as we were informed before signing up that up to 65 would be considered acceptable (and even up to 70 in a few special cases!).

However - if you live in an area with many applicants, then I can only guess that OBEC would rather choose younger people, for their own reasons. See, what you can do, is to contact the schools you'd earlier been "accepted" at - and presuming they haven't yet been allocated a different NES person, then get one of the people from your interview to get one of the higher-ups in the school to contact and "complain" about the decision to OBEC. That could quite easily change the tide, so to speak - as the rules and regulations are often not properly followed due to ignorance at OBEC - or maybe it was just a bad day for that particular clerk......

Aah..in the meantime the wife has found the official government document relating to hiring of NES speakers..... I've cut and pasted the part relating to "Age" when hiring - which you'll have to translate from Thai. As you can see, there is already a reference to "more than 65 years", in the first line. You can of course take this attachment with you to the school - maybe they also have the relevant document.

Lastly, if you applied for a teacher position, then I'm afraid that (probably) none of the above is relevant for your situation. I can only suggest that you pressure your schools to help to get you employed - you'd be surprised how much "influence" some of the top people at many schools have.....

Whatever - I can only agree with you that it's all completely ridiculous - and rather stupid!

Hope some of this is of help to you - and any comments are welcome

Cheers - and good luck

Splod

Oops! Sorry - the wife was a bit confused - the Age attachment relates to teachers !!

That ought to improve your situation even more....

AgeLimits.doc

Heh! - I don't suppose that a slight Dorset accent would be anything of a problem among Thais - but, yes, I do know very well what you mean.

I spent some years in London and was downright embarrassed when I one day heard my own voice on tape.

"'Ere, mate - 'ow's ziss fir'r good deal, d'yer reckan?" Almost "worse" that a real Cockney!! At first I couldn't believe that was my voice - and it took several years to re-train my accent - back to a more clear way of talking that I'd had before the London years.

Fortunately, through the years I've had to help other nationalities pronounce many English words and I'm already aware that a correct pronunciation is important - with or without any slight accent.

Typically, English speaking Thai ladies have one of the cutest accents I've ever heard - and probably many other nationalities are just as cute, too, in their own way.

I'm also wondering if the school experience will change my life sooner or later - I rather hope not, actually, as I originally came here to retire from working, but after hearing and reading of others' similar experiences, I wouldn't be at all surprised to end up "working" full time.....

Cheers

Splod

Thanks for the heads up - I'll (obviously) wait and see when/if I actually end up "assisting" and then see if the schools use any text books, at all. If not, then I'll try and buy some/all of the ones you mention, as my own books - and use them to "assist".

The alphabet, numbers and "what's your name....etc" are very important for the little ones to learn, I sometimes hear the younger kids here saying "worts yo nayme?" and the like - so they DO learn something, but their pronunciation is normally - well - pretty awful.

Luckily, the wife's rather good at guessing what they're sometimes saying - otherwise I'd often have no clue as to what they're talking about. However, sometimes even she has to give up........

A good step in the right direction would perhaps be for me to try and improve on their pronunciation.

Cheers - and thanks again for the info, very useful!

Splod

"Was told indirectly that I will not be required to teach at the local school. Slightly peeved as we normally have a lot of kids in and out of the Temple and their English is atrocious."

Yes, Para - you're certainly right, though I must admit that I had understood it being from a 'local somebody', rather than from an official source (i.e. - Area Education Centre) and your application form being (officially) rejected.

Cheers

Splod

Great, thanks!

If you can couple the titles with which class (age or number) that use them, then that'd be a really big help.

Cheers

Splod

Sounds really great - and I hope I'm just as lucky as you are! I'm not at all sure that there is any sort of curriculum to adhere to at the schools where I might just end up "assisting"....

Mind you, I can only hope that they do have some sort of curriculum/routine - if it all has to be off the top of my head, then I fear I'll run out of ideas along the way. Trouble is, the schools here are generally on the small side, so maybe they don't follow the more 'normal' schools.

Yes, same as you - Prathom and Mathayom - and I think I'd really prefer just Prathom classes - less 'serious', perhaps ?

Anyway, let's see if we ever get that far......haven't yet heard of anybody's application actually being accepted (or even denied).

Cheers

Splod

I admit that I'm certainly no genius when it comes to Work Permits and the like - it all seems so very complicated and I'm not really sure that anyone knows all the ins and outs of all the rules and regs.

That there might be certain rules and/or interpretations that mean being able to work without having to have a WP - I think I'll leave that one to the experts. I've always been told that if you work, paid or unpaid, then you have to have a WP.

Whatever, it looks like things are finally rolling for you - and good luck with the job!

Are you supplied with textbooks, etc - or do you have make it all up as you go along?

The rest of us are still playing the waiting game - and we're absolutely sure that the application forms are being processed as speedily as possible.

Cheers

Splod

What I think?

I think that if it were a European country that asked (nay, begged!) for foreigners to assist at schools - and then basically totally ignored them thereafter, then it would end up in the newspapers and on tv: heads would roll - and very quickly, too.

Here, you can wait and wait and wait and.......eventually things will get done, but not before you're sufficiently frustrated , annoyed and have probably given up on ever hearing anything.

'Twould be interesting to know how many of these NES applicants have in the meantime changed their minds, moved, found a different job - or just gone to another country/back home.

Luckily - although I'm retired. I'm busy - and the day doesn't have enough hours in it for me to do all the things I want. If the program is delayed by weeks or even months, then there are plenty of other things to do.......

Cheers

Splod

I rather doubt you "scared anyone away" by insisting on a WP - the many application forms are still being looked at.......things take time in this country

Splod

Well, good luck, Daxter!!

Nice to hear that you had to do very little at the interview - and certainly the working hours are a real dream!!

Does the school have a curriculum - or are you left to manage things on your own without any books or proper plan?

I can only imagine that most other schools will attempt to squeeze more hours into the contracts, if they possibly can - which has definitely been my own experience, (so far).

Good luck with "assisting" - but please do be careful if you're working without the correct papers.

Hopefully, they'll turn up very quickly!

Cheers

Splod

That all sounds very complicated, Plopmeister!

The school can employ you directly? Well, I guess you'd still need a work permit for that, wouldn't you, so I can't really see that you're any/much better off? Are you starting work now - or are you still waiting for this and that to fall into place?

To cap it all, we're hearing that the new project will last until September - and that the NES school contracts will be for a (soon) maximum of 4(?) months.

For those of us that insist on a work permit and any other official paperwork to be in place before work actually starts - plus perhaps having to change one's visa status - it seems that it'll all hardly be worth the effort in the end, what with the way things go so slowly, here.

The possible contract period is shrinking by the week - and by the time all the paperwork is in place, there might just be a month or two left to assist in the classroom.....

Cheers

Splod