jackcorbett

. But I think the 150 would have enough performance to handle highway driving provided the driver was driving moderately. And once again, it's not the gas mileage per se but the range between fillups and I'd give the 150 a big edge here.

I get about 275 to 300km per brimming full tank to empty on my 2009 150 on open road riding depending on terrain and traffic density. The new 150 will get maybe over 400km per 13l tank?

Guessing..... but the 250 range will be close to 300km.

Can cruise the 150 at 100 to 115KPH all day without problems. Some will say they cruise faster.

I was thinking there would be around forty miles difference in range between the 150 and the 250 and that would be about 70 kilometers in favor of the 150. So I just played with the number 35 kilometers per liter and came up with 455 kilometers per tank which is around 280 miles. And I called this figure my "somewhat optimistic" number based on what I might get with my Nouvo Elegance, which is automatic, 135 c c's, and only 11.2 hp compared to a figure on an Indian web site of 19.5 for the new CBR. The CBR has only 15 more cc's, it has fuel injection, and it has a six speed manual transmission. But it does weigh more and its tires are quite a bit thicker. Anyway, I then used the more pessimistic figure of 30 kilometers per liter and that works out to 241.80 miles per tankful which is probably pretty close to your way of thinking. Either number works out to excellent range for cruising around playing Kit Carson. On one web site I saw "might get between 20 and 30 kilometers per liter) referring to the 250. But such numbers do not refer to historical data that I can draw from. The lower number yields just 160 miles to the tank for the 250. The higher number around 240 miles with the midpoint number of 25 kilometers to the liter producing a range of about 200 miles to the tank.

After looking at the three new CBR 150's this morning I called a German fellow condo owner friend. The guy's very analytical and he likes bikes having just moved up from his 3rd Honda Phantom to the new Kawasaki 650. Er6n. He said at best his Er6n will only get 16 kilometers per liter and that it was overkill for driving in this area. When I told him I didn't really need either the CBR 250 or the Honda CBR 250 R but that I was like him, simply enjoyed bikes and was very attracted to both even though my Nouvo Elegance is better suited to my needs, Mike simply said, "Don't wait a year. Get one. Five or ten years from now you might not be able to drive one due to vision problems, lack of coordination or whatever (I'm 15 years older than Mike). I had spoken to Mike about six months ago when it appeared that Honda was about to introduce a 250 twin producing around 30 horsepower, and Mike exclaimed "That could be my next bike,' upon seeing its pictures. It didn't come out, he felt compelled to go get a replacement bike for his Phantom which was starting to have problems, so he wound up with the Kawasaki. Right now his mouth is watering over the prospect of that 250 Honda single which he definitely seems to prefer over his 650. HIs suggestion was to wait until the 250 came out provided it comes out in the next couple of months and then pick whichever of the two I liked the best. When I asked him about the ABS he said, "up to you. you won't know whether it was worth it until after you have died in an accident and you could have asked yourself, if I had not been so cheap and spent that extra 15,000 baht, maybe it might have saved me."

I was in the large Mityon dealer on Pattaya Sukumvit recently. I saw three CBR 150s but no 250s...

Just finished seeing one each representing all three colors of the new CBR 150 at the Honda dealership on 3rd Road and North Pattaya Road. This new CBR 150 appearance wise is substantially larger than the old model I rented in Krabi a few months ago. Tires are significantly larger for one thing. There's a more pronounced hump caused by the fuel tank, which is now 13 liters (I think the old one was around 10). Being only a 150, now being fuel injected and with this size of tank, I'd think this bike will go a long way before fuel stops. In a smaller way, this new CBR 150, especially the black one, reminds me of that black R-65 BMW 650 I bought many years ago, which was a pretty compact bike with a low center of gravity due to the horizontally opposed cylinders. Was great in town and great on the highway. I don't need one of these or the upcoming 250, but I want one. The red color looked stunning. I don't like the tri-color, but that's just me. I'm attracted to the black. I don't know but I would think the red colored one would be more noticeable on the road which is good because there might be less of a chance of someone not noticing the bike and hitting it. But I also think it might be a traffic ticket attractor. What does everyone else think? As to the upcoming 250 versus this 150, I think the 250 would handle all roads short of the expressways with aplomb. But I think the 150 would have enough performance to handle highway driving provided the driver was driving moderately. And once again, it's not the gas mileage per se but the range between fillups and I'd give the 150 a big edge here.

Yamaha's 125 X Max Check the reviews out on this machine from Yamaha. Thing is it's not available in Thailand. But so much for all that quibbling way back about Yamaha's 135 c.c. Elegance being the only bike in its class that lacks fuel injection. The facts are that both Yamaha and Honda have bikes they are selling elsewhere that most of us have never ridden, seen, or even heard of before. I'd say that all things considered when Yamaha came out with its 135 cc. Elegance that it substantially outclassed Honda's Air Blade, but now Honda has counterattacked with its PCX and from what I can see Honda's now outselling Yamaha by a huge margin in Pattaya at least. The PCX is a terrific looking bike. From what I've heard and read it offers great range---around 300 kilometers off a 6.2 liter fuel tank and this range is due to excellent fuel economy compared to that relatively large fuel tank 6.2 liters to the Nouvo Elegance's 4,8 and the Air Blade's 4. And now Honda's just brought to the market what appears to be a substantially improved CBR 150 and I really liked the old one I test drove in Krabi. And soon there will be that 250 Honda single for just 100,000 baht. I'm tempted, really tempted to just keep the Elegance and get either the CBR 150 just because I like bikes in general, both of them are very affordable, both are great looking, and I really like the idea of having great range (for a motorbike) particularly the 150 CBR which with its new fuel injection system, having just 150 cc's to begin with and 13 liter fuel tank just might get close to 300 miles down the road between gas stations.

But no matter how much I might want to buy one of these two new compelling Honda bikes, I keep thinking that neither will do nearly as well the kinds of things my Elegance is already doing such as carrying lots of groceries--for me that is for the kind of driving environment I'm dealing with. So I'd keep the Elegance while buying one of the two Honda's just for fun. Then I look at that 125 c.c. X Max and realize it's got a 250 c.c. bigger brother. Both have fuel tanks that are twice as large as the Elegance's and fuel injection. Both have a lot of carrying capacity for groceries and other things. I believe that X Max has something like 14 horsepower to the PCX's 10 horsepower so I'm now thinking that Yamaha is going to be offering something really exciting to the Thai market before too long. Honda's already got the 300 SH i which it's introduced some time ago in other countries and from the reviews it's quite a machine. If it introduced it at the right price here in Thailand it would trounce the competition. By no means would I rate Yamaha as being a superior company to Honda and I sure wouldn't count Yamaha out either. And now with Honda coming up with three big winners in a row...starting with the PCX and the CBR 150 and 250 CB I think we can expect Yamaha to pull out all the stops here in Thailand something that will completely outclass the PCX, as good as it is. Like Honda it's got the technology already there waiting in the wings and as far as quality, both are about as good as it gets.

you can call it herd mentality, but they can't ALL be wrong, can they?

i ride a suzuki GSX-R1100 purely beacause it IS a GSX-R1100 - heritage, styling, speed, reputation, but when it came to buying a scooter for the missus and me to use for tootling about the place on, i went straight down to the honda shop without a second thought.

Yep. They certainly can. You got a Suzuki because you felt it was the best bike of its kind. By the same token, although Honda and Toyota are the leaders in sales in the U.S. and have the best reputations for quality it is a little known fact that out of the entire lineup of Mazda models, it's their sports car the Miata, that has the best reputation for reliability. Mazda has been perfecting this car since 1990. For what it is, it's about as perfect as such machinery can get so as good as Hondas and Toyotas are, I'll bet the Miata is even more reliable than the typical car in either company's lineup. For that matter, in the 1960's when it was obvious Ford had more reliable cars, GM still was number one on the American market and the reason was....that herd mentality.

This thread makes no sense. Yamaha have sold Finos and Nouvos by the bucket load.

Agreed. When it comes to U.S. car sales Toyota and Honda are number one. So this thread makes about as much sense as someone asking "Since Toyota cars and Honda cars are terrific so are all the other Japanese brands crap." Anyone with a lick of sense should know by now that the reason Japanese automobile companies have done so well in the U.S. for the past thirty years is the Japanese are extremely quality conscious. It's not just Toyota or Honda. There's also Nissan and Mazda, Suburu and other companies. When it comes to cameras it's not just Nikon. Canon's are equally good. This does not even account for other companies such as Sony. When it comes right down to it whether it's a stereo or a t.v. or a car or a motorcycle the Japanese are so quality conscious that such products are made about like a Swiss watch.

I sure like the looks of that new Honda CBR 250 R in those videos. The bikes look great. And the seating position appears to be better than that of the CBR 150. The bike reminds me a bit of my first bike, a Honda CB 350 I bought in around 1973. The weight is roughly comparable. The 350 CB actually displaced only around 325 cc's. Horsepower of the Honda 350 was rated at around 36. So if this new Honda puts out around 26 horsepower, I'd say the new Honda will do about all my old 350 would do. Although it was not the greatest interstate cruiser on U.S. roads it was still an entertaining bike to drive and it had sufficient power for nearly all conditions. It was a great bike on 2 lane roads and it was a lot of fun to drive on winding roads West of St. Louis in hilly country. If this little bike is actually marketed here I think it's going to do about anything one can reasonably want on Thailand roads and be a blast to drive. I really don't get very far out of Pattaya on my Nouvo Elegance and the main reason for this is the police do not enforce the law. Consequently driving a motorbike here is an extremely dangerous proposition. Nevertheless, whether I need one or not, at just 100,000 baht I might become so tempted by this new Honda that I'd buy one anyway.

And to bad its only Singel Cylinder :/ then the sound of the engine sounds lame . .

o m

1981 Honda 500 XL specifications Mine was red. It was not lame, and although no match for my BMW's I got later for long distance interstate cruising in the U.S., it was quite capable of overtaking traffic on four lane highways and passing most cars with ample power, but it was very scary in the woods because it was too heavy and had too much torque for me to handle. But from the specs that just came in on the new single cylinder Honda 250 except for the fact the 500 XL was a large displacement thumper whereas the 250 has an engine half the size the power and weight of the two machines is very close. I cannot imagine Thailand's roads being too much for the 500 XL . Mine would bury the speedometer at 85 miles an hour and it looks like this one is reported to do zero to sixty miles an hour in 6.5 seconds which is faster than the 289 cubic inch 1965 Mustangs could do with their 271 horsepower engines. Well I don't know about the sound of the new 250 Honda which might or might not make it to Thailand dealers but with its single cylinder I don't think anyone in their right mind could call the 500 XL's sound to be wimpy.

akin

The mixed information of upcoming bike launches is a mite frustrating..... Hope this bikes is in the dealers this month, and the rental shops immediately after for a test run.

Does a combined braking setup only come with the ABS option? Can't find any confirming information, but would guess the CBS comes only with the ABS option.

A 250 with ABS is freaking awesome; two weeks ago my wife put the Phantom down, at about 40-50km, on a gravel covered sweeper when she tapped the back brake. My instance that she wear protective gear saved her a lot of skin, only weak point was regular pants that resulted in a minimal amount of road rash on her leg. Anybody can benefit from ABS, but an inexperienced and enthusiastic rider will benefit even more so. She will never practice the skidding, emergency braking like I ask of her (too dangerous ) and won't hesitate to ride with no protective gear (I do better with that discussion).

ABS + ~120,000 + one of the big 4 Japanese quality = peace of mind for moi cheap.

Interesting vdo, thinking to save myself THB15k by putting those 'training' wheels on! Couldn't find any reference to the standard CBR250 (non-ABS) having combi brake. For me it is worth the extra 15k for the ABS.

Dropped into a friendly dealer that i used to use. They could not confirm dates or prices but made an interesting point, we can sell you a 150 but you have to buy the 250 from the main dealer. Makes sense as will need trained staff for the bike. Hopefully for all the guys living out in the sticks you might be able to do normal services at your local.

Interestingly the UK Honda site doesn't even mention the ABS, maybe not an option there. They do give power figures though.

Max. Power Output 19.42kW / 8500min-1 (95/1/EC)

Max. Torque 22.9Nm / 7000min-1 (95/1/EC)

And the press kit is quite detailed http://ww1.honda.co....kit/CBR250R.pdf

Wheel rims are 2.75" front and 4.00" rear, compared to the new CBR150s 2.50" front and 3.50" rear.

I don't know a thing about what kw horsepower means but Wikipedia has the Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. at around 8.4 kw or so and horsepower at 11.2. Is there a direct ratio or correlation between the two? Because if the same ratio applies if the Elegance produced 11.2 horsepower, and it does look like the new Honda 250 produces 19.42 horsepower that correlates to just shy of 26 ponies which is substantially more than a Honda Phantom, CBR 150 or Tiger Boxer. That's not as much as the 250 Ninja but with the right torque characteristics this might be one compelling little bike.

Like I said earlier, my mech said new years, they will sell some of the cbr150s first... I do hope he is wrong, but would it not make sense to wait for the earlybirds to buy a 150 first and then jump over to the 250?

My guess is that the people who wants to buy a smaller big bike, will look for the Kwak250 and the CBR250... And it is a lot of them/us out there.

I was looking at another bigger bike last month, someone said that I should wait for the new Kwak- It looks nice, and yes I might get one of them, but that said, the 150 impressed me with it's size, much larger than the old one (I had one, and it was very skinny).

All we can do is really wait and see...

I might be wrong about the speed I came out with, but I did tell you guys that the Thai mech told me... I have no clue how fast these small bikes will go, but they sure do move.

Wait and see. If we are lucky, tomorrow it will begin, people will buy them, people will ride them, people will tell us what they are really like... We just have to wait...

Taking into account my actual needs, versus "my wants" I should stick it out with my Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. or be looking towards its successors or the PCX and its future descendants. I just returned from Ho Chi Minh City were the traffic is god awful. But, one can walk out into the street in the middle of a large group of motorbikes and the Vietnamese will actually flow around you striving at all costs to avoid hitting you. People actually obey the traffic rules by stopping at red lights driving the correct way down one way traffic lanes, etc. Here in Pattaya the people drive right at you if you are a pedestrian, many of the Thai male drivers are so full of testosterone that they seem to be always out to prove their appendage size is bigger than it really is. A large percentage of the Thai drivers drive paying no attention to their surroundings and just plain behaving stupidly. And as for the Western drivers, we have a lot of Westerners driving drunk, belligerently and arrogantly. Although many people drive well and politely there's a lot of scum driving about and it's just plain dangerous driving in the best of circumstances. Therefore survival is one of my first priorities. Also driving the Nouvo Elegance I just blend in and the police do not pay any more attention to me than others around me. I"ve known guys driving bigger motorcycles who are singled out by the police for preferential treatment on any pretext whatsoever and it all amounts to an unwarranted meal ticket to the undeserving. All things considered driving a machine such as the automatic Nouvo gives me the best chances at survival and it gives me more than enough acceleration and speed to do anything I want to get done.

Now that I've said that, I absolutely loves that pretty blue Honda CBR 150 I rented for a day at Ao Nang Beach in Krabi. I felt it was an excellent all around bike for Thailand and one could drive all over the country on one. I do look too large on it however. I'm a hair under six feet tall and weigh around 76 kilos. I'm 63 and I suppose I look foolish on such a sporty looking machine too but I found the bike to have a much better riding position than I suspected once I got on it. It had enough power to fully enjoy the two lane roads around the Ao Nang Beach area. As for its narrowness, I felt this to be an advantage as that allows for a more nimble machine able to weave in and out of traffic just as well as one can on any small scooter and I found its overall small size to provide a feeling of intimacy between rider and machine that was very endearing. The bike I rented had only 4000 kilometers on the odometer so it was virtually brand new. I saw a lot of bigger machines for rent at Ao Nang but I truly felt I was on a better all around machine for the conditions. I had a lot of fun on that bike. It's too bad my girlfriend is scared to death on any motorbike because I had to drop her off at our hotel before heading out for the hills.

I'd buy one in a heart beat and could care less if I look too old or too large to be driving one. As for the new fuel injected model which apparently has the feel of a larger bike, I'm anxious for the incoming reports. And as for the new 250 that is rumored to be sold in Thailand, I keep remembering what others have said here about the Ninja 250 versus the Tiger Boxer. The Ninja is for many by far the best bike in its class offering something like 33 horsepower out of a 250 and able to reach speeds up to 90 miles an hour or so depending on who's figures are to be believed. For years Honda has been offering the 250 Rebel in the states which from the figures i've seen offers the same horsepower as the 200 c.c. Honda Phantom single......17. I doubt if the Rebel will break 75 miles an hour while the Ninja practically doubles its power output. However, the Ninja as excellent a machine as it is develops its performance at high rpms so it's not the most practical in city driving conditions. I've heard from Mbox and his friends that the single cylinder Tiger at a measly 18 horsepower or so will do a lot better on hilly winding roads than the much more powerful Ninja due to its torque characteristics at much lower rpms. So if Honda does market its upcoming 250 in Thailand at less than 100,000 baht, it would seem to me that it's wanting to do what Tiger has already been doing---that is to sell a relatively low priced bike that performs very well in the kind of driving conditions many of us are likely to encounter while at the same time offering Honda's widespread dealer network and obvious attention to excellent quality. I personally like the design of the Tiger, but lately I've seen two bikes which had finishes that were going South in a hurry.

Hondas and Yamahas are as far as I'm concerned absolutely equal quality wise. I've had two Yamaha Nouvos now over a span of five years with no problems. In fact I don't even know anyone who's had anything major go wrong with either a Honda Air Blade or Yamaha Nouvo. The finish on both makes holds up unlike what i've seen on some other companies bikes. As far as overall engineering prowess I'd rate Honda and Yamaha equal with Honda coming out on top one year only to have its top dog model eclipsed by Yamaha's newest effort the next and so on.

You are correct in suggesting that there is a wealth of information about these models that can be researched. It can be a tiresome exercise, but searches can be profitable.

Still, there might be some "old" news there. For example, Yamaha has produced 3 Nouvo types. Your interest is the Nouvo Elegance, or the 135cc if you like. Posts about the older model Elegance will relate to the new one too, as except for some metallurgical changes, its production run remains the same design. The Nouvo MX model mentioned above (I have one) is large framed, but only a 115cc and does not apply to your Question.

The Airblade does have Fi of course, and its underseat storage is ample, though differently shaped. Sticking to the models you propose, the mileage will be better on the Airblade, the Elegance will go faster at the top end, the Airblade will get a better re-sale price as a percent, the Elegance not far behind. The wheel size difference is important to some people, the Elegance sporting 16 inches to Honda's 14. My own luck in renting Airblades may have been better than one poster (rental bikes can be unrepresentative), in that I found that it was amazingly steady - to which many posters attest - but that's true for the Nouvo Elegance as well.

Honda's PCX has its zealous advocates too, but rather than opening that can of worms here, I'll stick to what it is you have asked about.

Right now the two top automatics are Honda's PCX and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135. Of the two, I'd give a decided edge to the Honda albeit at its signficantly higher cost----around 70,000 baht versus 52000-55000. Both drive superbly and completely outclass stock Honda Waves or smaller automatics such as Honda Clicks, Yamaha Mios and Finos. Honda has obviously spent a lot of time completely upgrading its top automatic and the result is an evolutionary step forward over its rival the Nouvo Elegance. Let's face it, Americans and Europeans are signficantly heavier than they were when I was in college---at least 25 pounds more and Europeans are not that far behind. And due to a more Western style diet many Asians have grown larger as well. For a motorbike of 125 c.c. displacement the PCX is very large, possibly 50 pounds heavier than a 125 c.c. Wave and it has HUGE tires that seem as if they belong on a motorcycle with a 400 c.c. or even larger displacement. This no doubt makes it VERY stable and roadworthy. So a Western driver who is likely to be pretty large is going to feel a lot more comfortable on a PCX and due to its large tires and much heavier weight it's going to be safer as well. But the larger an engine's displacement the more gasoline it's going to take to feed it so I think Honda pretty well figured out that 125 c.c's if it's well engineered is all the average motorcylists needs in typical Asian driving conditions. Although the PCX handles extremely well it is heavier and wider than the Nouvo Elegance and its superb mirrors are going to make it more difficult to get through the narrowest gaps in traffic simply because they are a little wider apart than a Nouvo's. The Nouvo will also be more agile than the PCX. The Nouvo has more hooks and anchor points to carry grocery bags from or for strapping relatively large objects to the back of the bike such as desktop computers and spears (don't laugh because I've actually strapped a spear down on my Nouvo). From what I gather the PCX delivers tremendous fuel economy and its relatively large (for a scooter) 6.2 liter fuel tank compared to the Honda Airblades 4 liter tank and the Elegance's 4,8 liter tank gives it comparatively a huge increase in range. So, when it comes to range and it being a pain in the derriere to go very often to gas stations, the PCX is in a class by itself. The color scheme of the PCX is very simple and attractive with its absence of decals and multi colored paint schemes most bikes here have. With itas attractive lines and absence of so much busy work the PCX is in a class by itself. Its in most departments the top dog now, but we can expect Yamaha to have an answer to it in due course. Still, the Yamaha has key advantages over the PCX which will make it the best choice for some.

However, when we compare the Airblade to the Nouvo Elegance the Nouvo runs circles around the Air Blade. Its power advantage is decisive. If the Air Blade had better brakes than the older Nouvo, the MX, the Elegance either matches the Air Blade or comes close. Although the Air Blade handles well and is very stable, the Nouvo Elegance cannot be considered inferior. About the only department the Airblade tops the Nouvo Elegance is possibly in some of its color schemes. The Airblade was a great bike in its day and I still enjoy renting them but there is no way it can begin to match the 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance. And as to someone else's comment that his gf doesn't care for the large size of the Nouvo, that's a lot of rubbish. None of the bikes we are discussing here are large. Practically any Thai woman can comfortably handle an Airblade, Nouvo Elegance or even the PCX so long as her boyfriend tells her, "Sorry honey. I'm getting the bike I like so you are just going to have to live with that".

Here you go. Actual Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. fuel economy figures and speculation on highway mileage 76 miles per gallon or 32.33 kilometers to the liter in Pattaya traffic most of it driving two up. Back when I created this spreadsheet I speculated how Honda could claim 118 miles to the gallon for its PCX 125.

Since then I discussed fuel mileage of the PCX with two PCX owners who live in my condo building, one German the other Norwegian. The German told me he was getting almost 300 kilometers to the tank on his PCX. My Norwegian friend told me his PCX actually got 305 kilometers on his 6.2 liter tank. Apparently then Honda does deliver the goods with the PCX. I do not think a Honda Wave is going to do much better than this if at all. And since you would have a 6.2 liter tank with a PCX and the Wave has a much smaller one you will no doubt find your fuel economy to at least seem to be much higher than you will with the manual transmission or semi autos because you will be going much further between fill ups.

However, the German PCX owner no longer is a PCX owner. His bike was stolen from the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital parking lot while he was visiting his mother. When he went back to Honda the people he talked with there told him it wouldn't matter what he'd wind up doing to secure his 2nd PCX if he bought a new one from them---it's in such demand that it will probably be stolen anyway. So he wound up replacing his PCX with a Honda Scoopy.

Now here's something I fail to understand. We Westerns typically pay $1000 for car insurance alone in our home countries, pay large amounts of money for fuel (we AMericans in particular have long distances to travel in our cars) and we see nothing wrong with paying over $20,000 for a car which will probably depreciate at least $3000 per year. Then we come into this forum and bitch about having to pay 70,000 baht (roughly $2000) for a Honda PCX or quibble about whether to pay 40,000 baht for a manual bare bones 125 c.c. bike or 52,000 baht for a Nouvo Elegance and then state our main buying criteria is over which bike gets better fuel economy when the average bike owner here might be only driving 7000 kilometers a year anyway. If I wanted a 250 Ninja R I'd pay the 150,000 baht and laugh all the way to the bank just thinking about the fact that I no longer own cars either here or in the U.S. If I wanted the 650 Kawasaki ERn, the new Honda CBR fuel injected bike.........same same. I'd still be driving for a fraction of the cost I was paying for transportation in the U.S.

The top speed before was 140kph so if the specs 160kph is true..... quite a big gain??

Googling it every site lists the old one as 160kph.

http://www.bikez.com...r_150r_2007.php

http://bikefreak.wor...pics-and-specs/

Interesting.... they must have used hotter gasoline Every one i have had, tops out at 140kph on the speedo. From what I see on TV from other posts all say 140 is it. (unless modded)

Hopefully the new one can get up to 160. Not that Id want do that too often on a bike of that size on Thai roads.

Would be one helluva 150 to hit that (96 miles per hour). I had a Honda CB 350 for my first bike. Supposed (according to Honda) to go 103 miles an hour. Had 36 horsepower but it was really a 90 mile per hour bike (indicated).

Hi Jack,

Couple of things. I'm pretty sure that Suzuki (in Thailand, not always elsewhere) provides the three year/30,000 warranty that is common here these days. I was told so at the dealer and last year's Hayate brochure says so and their other models have done so too. Maybe your source was from elsewhere? (I've seen this with a number of models). I'll know for sure tomorrow.

Your neighbor's Hayate was about as zippy as your MX, you say. That's been my experience too, as I rented an older Hayate and I own an MX for shopping now (but have rented a newer carb'd model with zip). However, neither of us it seems has driven the new injected 'Zuki. As speculation, I'll agree though that the Elegance provides somewhat more power, given the specs, while the Hayate better mileage. Difference in price seems to be about 6,000 baht. And cooling is an issue, though when you consider air cooled bikes on the road ...

But I am not sure about characterizing the Hayate as a cheap knock-off. Price difference may be only 6,000 baht, but fuel injection typically has been more expensive; 'Zuki (competition) almost held the line.

As for the PCX, I like it for a lot of things, but as we discussed eons ago, it seems, those mirrors are equal to 5" wider than the Elegance - for me a nuisance when moving up to stoplights. Also, Honda really does know what it is doing and is taking PCX money by the load.

From what I am seeing is despite the big price difference Honda's PCX is outselling the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance big time here in Pattaya. Ever since the PCX came out I'm just not seeing many new Nouvos and rightly so. Ever since moving to Thailand I've been discovering more and more that unlike Western countries where the customer is always right and large companies do marketing analysis in order to do a better job of trying to fathom what the market really wants many Thai outfits are just clueless. Take the bar that plays Thai music or the latest two note dada music because the bar girls like it. But look around you, most of the customers are over fifty and no doubt hate the music but put up with it. Or the other day at Home Pro and I'm shopping for a mirror. I even have a measuring tape but at the critical moment when I want to measure two mirrors I'm interested in there's a worker cleaning all the mirrors. I have to wait five minutes and I'm the customer whereas he's only an employee. If the store was customer orientated the employee would tell the customer to have a look and when the customer was finished, thirty seconds later, the employee would finish cleaning the mirrors. Or the fact that in the entire Pattaya area I find it next to impossible to buy bathroom fixtures that are brass or bronze whereas in the U.S it seems that about 25 % of all fixtures offered come in brass or bronze not to mention other finishes other than chrome or stainless. Yet there are literally hundreds of styles and models, all in shiny chrome or stainless. A store that offered a better selection of finishes would clean up. So I don't know if it's the Thais dictating the color selections of bikes offered here or the Japanese. But for the most part all those decals and two tone, three tone paint jobs is so outrageously ugly that all the stray cats and soi dogs that used to hang out in our condo parking lot have all disappeared in search for a better neighborhood. Honda had some good color schemes on its Air Blades. And its PCX is refreshingly clear of all those two or three tone paint jobs and decals that make other bikes look like Indy 500 racing cars advertising STP oil, Penzoil, Good Year tires and whatever other ads their owners get for defacing their racing cars in pursuit of advertising dollars. Big tires equate to better ride, stability and safety so that's what Honda designed its PCX around. Having much longer cruising ranges is not only practical out in the country, it's nice to have in the city too because one is not always going about filling up his tank. And out in the city most drivers don't go faster than 70 kph or so. i think Honda designed its PCX around what most of its customers really need and want so it sacrificed top end speed to provide customers have until now not been getting. And there's a lot of large Western customers buying such bikes and a bigger bike such as the PCX suits such customers better. For once Honda has really caught the competition sleeping now that it is offering a relatively large, stable, smoother riding small engined bike with a clean attractive uncluttered look that isn't forcing its owners to be visiting the gas pumps nearly as often.

Actually I though it was Suzuki that brought the auto scooter to the Thai market. If I recall correctly Michael Owner was the brand rep so it goes back a few years. Rather than one copying the other, I believe they did a piss poor job of marketing, which they are only now addressing.

As to the actual specs, I know nothing so will leave it up to you people in the know to fight it out. All I know is my son is very happy with his Hayate and his only real complaint is that it is a bit heavy.

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Gary I still think you made a good purchase. The bike's got Japanese reliability. It will probably get better fuel economy than the Elegance. Honda's claiming it will get 50 km to the liter and Suzuki is claiming 46 plus. I don't think the Elegance will quite reach those numbers. And your son won't notice too much difference anyway. But we are still talking about who's the king of the hill right now and I think Yamaha and HOnda are and for this narrow sliver in time all in all, the Honda's got my beloved Nouvo Elegance edged out all things considered. But....at a higher cost. Nevertheless, we aren't talking ab out that much money. I expect Yamaha's next incarnation of the Nouvo to top Honda's present PCX. And then Honda will once again be on top down the road.

If you want my honest opinion there is no comparison between the Suzuki Hayate and the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. The Suzuki is a cheaper knockoff that brings nothing new to the table except for a lower price. On the other hand the Honda PCX offers both advantages and disadvantages to the Elegance that make it a great alternative depending on what attributes one values the most. The PCX apparently offers great fuel economy and terrific range for this class along with the stability and comfort of large tires and greater weight. The Elegance is no doubt faster and it most definitely offers significantly greater cargo carrying capability.

I drove a neighbor's new Hayate when I had my old Nouvo air cooled 115 c.c. MX and could discern no power increase whatsoever with the larger 125 c.c. engine of the Suzuki over the smaller Yamaha engine and concluded that Yamaha simply made more horsepower for the same displacement. Appearance wise the Suzuki appeared to be a nearly identical twin except the Nouvo seemed more substantial and better detailed. Even the tires were the exact same specs and both bikes had the two small recessed areas in their small fairings that are suitable for sunglasses, cigarettes, gloves, etc. Other than a lower price, the Suzuki seemed to be offering nothing new to the table, merely copy catting Yamaha's engineering. Contrast this with Honda's Air Blade which offered liquid cooling and smaller diameter yet wider tires and a more closely coupled machine that offered quicker handling without giving up much if any stability over the longer wheel based Nouvo MX. The Honda also offered other innovations including better brakes.

Then I drove a friend's new Nouvo 135 c.c. Elegance. Not entirely broken in yet, accelerated like a rocket compared to the other machines I just mentioned. I bought my Elegance nearly a year later and even though it was brand spanking new, its 135 c.c. liquid cooled engine totally outclassed all these other machines in acceleration. Its brakes seemed far better than my 115 Nouvo MX had as well and I'd have to rate them as equal to the Air Blade. I noticed that the new Elegance was quicker steering than my MX and when I got a tape out I found that Yamaha had engineered the seat of the Elegance to be 2 inches closer to the front tire of the bike and two inches higher. Logically this means more leverage is applied to the bike in general and particularly to the front tire with smaller steering inputs supplied by the driver. And since the wheel base was as long as the Nouvo MX's straight line stability was not sacrificed. Needless to say I was very impressed by Yamaha's noticeable improvements to the brakes and its efforts to offer better handling.

Now, notice the differences in Yamaha's and Suzuki's specs. First, the Suzuki. Suzuki specs Note the 6 month warranty and the compression of 9.8 to 1. and the fact that although it has fuel injection it is also air cooled. Now note the specs for the Yamaha Elegance. Yamaha 135 c.c. Elegance specs Here's more from Wikipedia which provides a horsepower figure of 11.2 rather than the 11 provided in that other link as well as mentioning a 1 year or 10,000 km warranty. Wikipedia specs for Elegance Lastly, the compression ratio of the Nouvo Elegance is 10,8 to 1 compression ratio specs

And sure, the Yamaha has a carb with all the advantages and disadvantages of a carb but for what it is worth the Elegance now offers TBS or Throttle Body sensing to its carburetor whereas the air cooled MX didn't. To be sure, Yamaha has fuel injection other models its put on the world market so there has to be a good reason why they'd so far not introduced it on the Elegance. But it could in a heart beat. I don't see any way that a 125 c.c. air cooled Suzuki Hayate will accelerate with a 135 c.c. water cooled Elegance operating at higher compression ratio. The warranty is not as good. Also note that Yamaha is not very shy about releasing horsepower figures for its Elegance and that Suzuki and Honda is. I"d say Suzuki is playing follower to both Yamaha and Honda while offering a lower price as compensation for something that is not as well engineered.

a kawasaki ninja isnt really a cruiser though is it?

most of us don't care about the higher topspeed anyway as we are hardly ever going faster than 80, but we would like some better acceleration.

In the bike reviews I had been reading out of the U.S. the Kawasaki 250 R was rated as a terrifically fun bike, and a bike that would be an excellent beginner's bike, and an entertaining bike to drive regardless of experience level. I've never driven one or at least not yet. But when I had my BMW R-65 650 a good friend had a Ninja 500 and his bike drove great. I know that little 650 BMW was a great cruiser because I once drove 800 kilometers in one day with a girl on the back.

But I'd say the Ninja 500 would not have been that bad a bike for me cruising around the country even though it was much more sport bike than Cruiser. I"d say the CBR 150 is not a Cruiser. I'd bill it as a "fun bike". But I'd much rather drive it throughout Thailand than a Honda Phantom, 400 c.c. Shadow or other Harley look a like as the handlebars ride too high up in relation to the seat to give me the feeling of control I want.

As far as acceleration, my 135 c.c. Nouvo has a lot of usable acceleration up to 70 kph (you mentioned not wanting to go faster than 80 kph) and I'm sure the CBR will do better. 80 is roughly 50 miles an hour, and if I recall the Ninja 250 R will get up to 60 miles an hour (about 95 kph) in about 7.5 seconds. So it should be quite quick up to 80 kph.

a kawasaki ninja isnt really a cruiser though is it?

most of us don't care about the higher topspeed anyway as we are hardly ever going faster than 80, but we would like some better acceleration.

In the bike reviews I had been reading out of the U.S. the Kawasaki 250 R was rated as a terrifically fun bike, and a bike that would be an excellent beginner's bike, and an entertaining bike to drive regardless of experience level. I've never driven one or at least not yet. But when I had my BMW R-65 650 a good friend had a Ninja 500 and his bike drove great. I know that little 650 BMW was a great cruiser because I once drove 800 kilometers in one day with a girl on the back.

But I'd say the Ninja 500 would not have been that bad a bike for me cruising around the country even though it was much more sport bike than Cruiser. I"d say the CBR 150 is not a Cruiser. I'd bill it as a "fun bike". But I'd much rather drive it throughout Thailand than a Honda Phantom, 400 c.c. Shadow or other Harley look a like as the handlebars ride too high up in relation to the seat to give me the feeling of control I want.

I have a PCX and I'm happy with it.

But why someone would speed over 80/90 Kmph with this scooter? 120 or more? Modify, tuning, chip?

Why don't you buy a Kawasaki Ninjia if you want the speed?

I recall when I was a boy tuning a Vespa with Polini Pinasco Malossi, but I was just a 16 yo boy with no money. Not an overgrown expat farang.

I agree with you. In our home countries, we spend $20,000, $30,000 for a car then pay $1000 a year for insurance. Then we move to Thailand and balk at spending $2000 for a new motorbike. And even a Ninja 250 R even at today's abysmal exchange rates costs only $4300 or so. I think that's pretty cheap entertainment. Incidentally, my pal Pier is now telling me he might just be able to get 300 km per tank on his new PCX. This would be fabulous fuel economy. If he actually gets it this means Honda's doing some real fine tuning to get the PCX to turn in Honda Wave mileage figures out of a much heavier bike that's an auto no less. So I'd keep things as they are. I'd take the 300 kilometer range over more speed any time. I'm thinking Honda has engineered this bike to give the average user what he really needs which is great fuel economy, comfort with excellent stability and enough acceleration and top speed to match the conditions most users are going to encounter.

I've finally driven the new PCX as my friend Per just bought one yesterday. First off, the colors for the PCX are first rate. Pier's for example is black and it has a chocolate brown colored seat that goes very well with black. No decals or two tone colors on the PCX. Until now all manufacturers including Honda should hang their heads in shame for their cluttered multi colored paint schemes on small motorbikes offered here in Thailand. My Elegance isn't bad only in the sense that it is not as atrocious as most other bikes out there. But compared to the PCX even it is in bad taste.

I like the idea of the 6.2 liter fuel tank as compared to the 4.8 liter tank of my Nouvo Elegance or the paltry 4 liter tank of the Honda Air Blade. Adding considerable more range by offering a 30-50 % larger tank is a huge improvement as I don't enjoy going to gas stations very much and I like the feeling of security that having ample range gives me. The rear view mirrors are terrific on this bike. This alone translates into having greater safety.

I believe the brakes are better on this bike than they are on my Nouvo Elegance. The bike looks and feels substantially heavier than my Nouvo Elegance. The PCX's greater weight works for it in my opinion because once underway the bike feels much more stable than all other small motorbikes I've driven due to this weight increase and the much wider tires. The feel is more similar to that of real motorcycles than it is to smaller motorbikes. The bike has a really good feel to it. Along with the superior mirrors, good brakes, having much greater rubber on the road than other small motorbikes are offering along with this bike's greater weight makes this a much safer bike.

I tried the stop idling feature at a stop light at 3rd Road and North Pattaya Road. Pier had it turned off so I turned it on and sure enough, in three seconds the engine shut down. I then opened the throttle a bit and the engine came alive again, very quietly and smoothly. But since I was not used to the machine and I didn't want to be unable to start its engine in traffic I shut the idling stop feature to the off position of the switch which allowed the engine to keep running until the light changed to green. I do want to emphasize that if the owner leaves this switch in the "on" position that everything is automatically done for you. You come to a light, stop, and three seconds later the engine shuts off without your having to do a thing. Then when the light turns green all you have to do is to twist the throttle open as if the engine were already running (it's not) and the engine starts up quickly and unobtrusively and off you go. This is very slick and no doubt will save gas in city environments such as Bangkok and Pattaya. My only concern is over the long term reliability of this stop idling system.

For me the bike's main disadvantage is its lack of various hooks or a rail on which one can hang plastic grocery bags or strap larger objects on the bike. For example every so often I have to take a desktop computer in for repair to Tuk com and I can easily secure it to my Nouvo seat with bungee cords. And just two days ago I took a three foot long steel rod into a welding shop to have it shortened. This was easy due to the long seat of the Nouvo, the rail behind the seat around which I could wrap a bungee cord and several bungee hookups that are located towards the rear of the bike.

Is it worth 69,000 baht? If I were in the market for a bike right now I'd go out and buy one without thinking twice about it. But I've had my Nouvo Elegance for only a year and nine months now so I'm not ready to trade. And it's still an excellent bike which I view far superior to Honda Waves, Airblades, Mios, Finos and Honda Clicks which I'd never buy so long as I had the Nouvo Elegance for an alternative. It will be very interesting what Yamaha comes up with to compete with the PCX because in the matter of styling and paint alone there's no contest.

Honda Shop Claims 14hk for the PCX . , CBR 17hk . . . , Elegance 11hk ...

Really ?? Then they lie..

10.06hp / 7.3Kw

The 135 elegance has more oomph than the 125 PCX imo..

Smoother ride but bigger too.

I feel better now as I own a 135 c.c. Elegance. Your figures for h.p. make sense to me. Where are you getting them by the way?

I misquoted my friend who's currently renting a PCX and is planning to buy one as soon as his pal gets here from Norway and takes his rental off his hands. Per claims 105 kph. (not the 108 I think I mentioned earlier) He says it accelerates well to this point and that it has no problems getting up big hills two up. He says it's better on the hills than the Nouvos he's rented before trying out the PCX. even the 135 Elegance. This is going all the way from Pattaya to Rayong which is a longer distance than most people typically care to do on their small motorbikes. I've also been checking all over the web for reviews of the PCX and there seems to be a consensus that the PCX tops out at about 60 miles an hour. Per mentioned there is definitely a rev limiter or other mechanical device that cuts in abruptly to limit its top speed to 105 kph indicated.

I've also been reading up on the Honda 150 sh i that I first saw in Vietnam and that's now selling in the American market. From what I've read the PCX is being marketed for a global market and that the reason the 150 SH i has been sent to the U.S. is 150 c.c. bikes are legal on most American express highways whereas 125 c.c. bikes are not. Also.....the 150 Honda SH i is limited in speed to 65 miles an hour. If I recall it gets to 100 kph in about 15 to 16 seconds which means it's hitting 60 a bit sooner. THis is pretty quick for a 150 scooter and would seem to indicate that both the 125 c.c. PCXi and the 150 SHi accelerate quickly only to hit a Honda mandated brick wall that comes on abruptly.

well 60mph is 96 kmh, so you v got to make up your mind on what speed the limiter kicks in:)

side by side with same heavy load, Elegance 135 and Suzuki Skydrive/Hayate Fi is stronger up the hills than PCX. As they should be since they are lighter and have similar power

If there is speedometer error on the optimistic side and Per's PCX rental is indicating 105 kph his number and what I'm seeing for internet figures should be very close.

But if a bike does 107km/h on a Dyna......that IRL with wind force and things it dont make same speed . . ,

I misquoted my friend who's currently renting a PCX and is planning to buy one as soon as his pal gets here from Norway and takes his rental off his hands. Per claims 105 kph. (not the 108 I think I mentioned earlier) He says it accelerates well to this point and that it has no problems getting up big hills two up. He says it's better on the hills than the Nouvos he's rented before trying out the PCX. even the 135 Elegance. This is going all the way from Pattaya to Rayong which is a longer distance than most people typically care to do on their small motorbikes. I've also been checking all over the web for reviews of the PCX and there seems to be a consensus that the PCX tops out at about 60 miles an hour. Per mentioned there is definitely a rev limiter or other mechanical device that cuts in abruptly to limit its top speed to 105 kph indicated.

I've also been reading up on the Honda 150 sh i that I first saw in Vietnam and that's now selling in the American market. From what I've read the PCX is being marketed for a global market and that the reason the 150 SH i has been sent to the U.S. is 150 c.c. bikes are legal on most American express highways whereas 125 c.c. bikes are not. Also.....the 150 Honda SH i is limited in speed to 65 miles an hour. If I recall it gets to 100 kph in about 15 to 16 seconds which means it's hitting 60 a bit sooner. THis is pretty quick for a 150 scooter and would seem to indicate that both the 125 c.c. PCXi and the 150 SHi accelerate quickly only to hit a Honda mandated brick wall that comes on abruptly.

I must say I admire you guys wanting to ride more than 100 kmh with PCX crappy brakes and tyres, not to mention suspension bottoming.

My dtracker needs 70% of the brakingdistance at 100kmh and my Ninja 650R 50% of the braking distance. Yes, we have tryed, scary on PCX;)

Maybe that's why there is a rev limiter?

Might have something to do with the driving conditions here. Have a Norwegian fellow condo owner friend who just came back to Pattaya from Norway. Currently renting an Air Blade, he's spent a lot of money renting motorbikes oftentimes for three months at a time and he does get around a lot taking much longer trips than I do. he's rented 115 c.c. Nouvo MX's, the 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance and Air Blades and as far as he's concerned there's only two choices that make sense to him now.....the Nouvo Elegance and the Honda PcX. The other bikes are simply not as large, comfortable or competent. A close Norwegian friend of his will get here soon so he expects his friend will take the rental Air Blade off his hands and then he's going to go out and buy his first bike...which will be the Honda PCX. He tells me the PCX has very good acceleration and that is it the steadiest bike he's been on so far and says he can comfortably cruise at least 10 kilometers per hour faster than he can on the other bikes due to its road worthiness. He told me the rev limiter came on at 108 kilometers per hour, then he said "one does not need to go any faster than that." As to the driving conditions, just yesterday while approaching an Indian restaurant on the sidewalk I was nearly knocked off my feat by a Thai woman driving her bike on the sidewalk. This was completely unexpected. So yes, having great brakes helps, but since we are dealing with so many idiots even the best handling bike with the best brakes won't save us once we are going so fast that our reaction time isn't up to the driving conditions these people put us through.

Realistically-----All that high tech leading to high horsepower levels for a 250 is going to cost a bundle. Might as well get a Kawasaki 650 machine. And I can just imagine how smooth and tractable a bike is going to be in Bangkok or Pattaya traffic that puts out something like 50 or 60 horsepower at 20,000 rpms.