bartlaz

Abhisit has lost what little credibility he had.

He wasn't elected and his actions have cost too many lives already.

He only has one choice and that is to dissolve parliament now.

Holding elections in 3 months seems a reasonable way out for everyone.

If he declares martial law then it will result in the loss of many more lives.

Either way he has lost the right to remain PM.

Let the majority decide Thailand's future in proper elections.

If Abhisit was not elected, the neither were Samak nor Somchai (nor anybody ever).

Let the majority decide? The majority has decided, long time ago and the majority wanted Abhisit to be the PM. It's a small (but determined) minority, who doesn't want to accept that and doesn't want to accept real democracy.

So they went out to fight corruption and double standard. Nwo look who enjoys double standard and immunity for whatever law they break?

The problem is now that the simple Red Shirt demonstrators are afraid to return home, because they had to hand in their ID cards to the Red Shirt leaders and are now afraid to return home without ID card. The government offered to replace them, but for that they have to go to the local administration and expose their "treason" and that's what they are now afraid of. That's what I call Red Guard terror.

the majority has decided .... wanted Abhisit .... ?????????? ??????

i thought the reds won the last election but the yellow took the control after an occupation of the 2 airports

what are u talking about???????????

Well, shouting does not make your argument (or rather lack of argument) any better.

One would think that anyone who actually wants to know, does know by now how a government comes into being. Obviously those who can read, do have a slight advantage.

Perhaps you might want to read "Democracy for Dummies" or is that already too much?

I will write it v e r y s l o w l y again for you: The government is built by a majority of the elected MPs, not by the people. People only elect the MPs. These MPs in turn are free to build any group or coalition they want to. You may remember, prior to the elections, some parties announced that they will help the democrats to build the government, but then switched sides to help the PPP to make Samak the PM. After Thaksins BIL was (once more) caught cheating, some MPs got together and made the new government with the Democrats. That's when Abhisit become PM. See? It's not that difficult to understand. But of course the worst deaf are those who do not want to hear.

And... the Yellows or the Airport occupation have nothing to do with it, just happened to be there at the same time. But that might be too difficult already.

i'm listening ... please enlighten me about the airport occupation. I'm not sarcastic, want to know. Look like u have a new theory about that occupation. I didn't realized it from the media. I know it might be difficult. try me

Abhisit has lost what little credibility he had.

He wasn't elected and his actions have cost too many lives already.

He only has one choice and that is to dissolve parliament now.

Holding elections in 3 months seems a reasonable way out for everyone.

If he declares martial law then it will result in the loss of many more lives.

Either way he has lost the right to remain PM.

Let the majority decide Thailand's future in proper elections.

Absolutely not... They have shown their terrorist element both on April 10 and last Thursday. The government should not even compromise to 9 months as they originally offered t- to do so would be to cave to the blood-stained demands of a terrorist group.

The UDD are the puppets of Thaksin, and that is their sole purpose to return a corrupt, blood stained dictator to power... The Abhisit government is legitimate and should never cave to the mob.

Sent that Oxford boy back to Britain where he belongs. That aristocrat has no idea how the average Thai working class lives.

wrong. they know it very well. just they like it and want it doesn't change

Abhisit has lost what little credibility he had.

He wasn't elected and his actions have cost too many lives already.

He only has one choice and that is to dissolve parliament now.

Holding elections in 3 months seems a reasonable way out for everyone.

If he declares martial law then it will result in the loss of many more lives.

Either way he has lost the right to remain PM.

Let the majority decide Thailand's future in proper elections.

If Abhisit was not elected, the neither were Samak nor Somchai (nor anybody ever).

Let the majority decide? The majority has decided, long time ago and the majority wanted Abhisit to be the PM. It's a small (but determined) minority, who doesn't want to accept that and doesn't want to accept real democracy.

So they went out to fight corruption and double standard. Nwo look who enjoys double standard and immunity for whatever law they break?

The problem is now that the simple Red Shirt demonstrators are afraid to return home, because they had to hand in their ID cards to the Red Shirt leaders and are now afraid to return home without ID card. The government offered to replace them, but for that they have to go to the local administration and expose their "treason" and that's what they are now afraid of. That's what I call Red Guard terror.

the majority has decided .... wanted Abhisit .... ?????????? ??????

i thought the reds won the last election but the yellow took the control after an occupation of the 2 airports

what are u talking about???????????

maybe someone's been payed , but from u looks like everyone has been payed to be there. 15 red protesters there are friends of friends, and no one of them said to have received money. they come from BKK. They tell can eat for free. that's what i know.

Btw u can try to see the 500bath in a different point of view: they are not money to make someone become colored, but 500bath to support someone who get out of his way, traveling and living on the streets for weeks leaving their jobs for weeks, to support something, good or bad doesn't matter.

(sorry for my english)

Stop pretending you're not just another reincarnation of the existing red PR machine.

i'm not red. just want to understand why yellow can govern the country when the lost democratic elections but doing it occupying the country in the same way as the reds are doing now, and call reds terrorist when they can't govern the country even the won elections.

tell me this is a yellow Dictatorship for Thailand own good, and i will understand and stop posting questions.

but don't tell me the yellow are holding on for the democracy.

Democracy has Greek root: Demo=people, Crat=rule

If people want Thaksin, give him to them. that is democracy

At least as a Thaksin apologist you don't hide it like some of your colleagues.

Your understanding of democracy of course is open electoral corruption by Thaksin.

Plus intimidation plus violence.

Not for one moment do you believe in democracy.

Thaksin is your only ticket.

I don't see the Thaksin corrupion way so bad, compare to the other countries in the world, maybe coz i'm italian and my PM is Silvio Berlusconi, 1000 time more corrupted then Thaksin

Btw some of u seems to prefer the old yellow system (with layers), where few high families are very rich and above the law, and the most of the people is poor and slave. Middle age, happened in europe hundreds of years ago.

Maybe u like that coz u come from a farang country and u have houses and your money here can buy more than can buy in you country. Don't u see they all are slave of few people? sure u like this system. can buy ladies and love and other things. u look like handsome. doesn't happen in your country.

Thaksin might be corrupted, but maybe he was a way to open the country to the new millennium.

(sorry for my english)

Stop pretending you're not just another reincarnation of the existing red PR machine.

i'm not red. just want to understand why yellow can govern the country when the lost democratic elections but doing it occupying the country in the same way as the reds are doing now, and call reds terrorist when they can't govern the country even the won elections.

tell me this is a yellow Dictatorship for Thailand own good, and i will understand and stop posting questions.

but don't tell me the yellow are holding on for the democracy.

Democracy has Greek root: Demo=people, Crat=rule

If people want Thaksin, give him to them. that is democracy

(sorry for my english)

There is something i can't understand:

i want to make it clear first that i don't support reds neither yellows. I'm for peace and democracy

So, am i stupid or i've missed something?

i understand why some thais are yellow but i don't understand why many farangs are yellow and post defamatory messages against reds calling them terrorists.

i don't know who is the good and the bad,

-what i know is 4 years the reds govern the country and the yellow took the country after a coup d'etat.

-after 1 year or so the reds win the new DEMOCRATIC elections.

-1 year later the yellow take the govern again because the occupy and block the airport.

-reds ask for new elections using the yellow strategy: occupying

so reds are terrorists? if yes, it means yellow are terrorist as well. used the same strategy. if yes it means someone don't know what is terrorism

yellows are democratic?

what i think is: good or not the reds won the elections in a democratic way but the yellow took govern in an undemocratic way.

if in my country would happen something like that, and i were red, i would be very angry and disappointed.

So many posts make me confused. someone could explain why they support yellows and call reds terrorists? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

It's quite simple actually. If the yellows had shot soldiers, fired grenades at public buildings, and killed a civilians and injured others by attacking the skytrain we would have labeled them terrorists. But since it is the reds that took the path of violence they are the ones labeled terrorists. It's not just the occupation, it's the violence. So that's the part you missed.

Maybe because 2 years ago the reds leaved after few days the yellow occupied the airport ( threatening them by using soldiers). What u think would have happened if Samak and red would have not gave up?

Now, after months, the yellow don't leave and call for new election. People are tired. this leads to the violence

Why yellow don't stop the violence as the reds dids 2 years ago and give up calling for new elections? why???

This particular ploy was used by Thaksin in the hope that an election victory would lessen the courts appetite for pursuing a popularly elected leader. That strategy had already worked for him once in his assets concealment case. Judges interviewed later said they ignored the facts of the case and ruled in the majority "not guilty" because they believed he had a popular mandate to govern and they didn't want to rock the boat. That particular dereliction of duty is responsible for just about every problem that has followed.

And so began Prime Minister Thaksin's unsystematic efforts to undo, evade, elide and destroy the proper functioning of the document whose whole purpose to ensure the legitimacy of elected governments. Legitimacy is not (just) getting the most votes - it is getting them and governing under a system of laws which are in place to ensure legitimacy. Even Richard Nixon found this out.

The appalling political infantalism in Thailand is in crucial respects a result of the fact that legitimacy hasn't come from laws or votes but from on high. With a lacunae there, the medieval barons fight it out for supremacy. The idea that everyone must be equal under the law is a counter-cultural notion in Thailand - the main game is making sure that others are under it and you are above it. Joining the police force helps I'm told.

Great post. I'm no Thaksin fan, but he was really no worse than what went before and what goes on now. There are multiple layers in Thai society, and the higher up the tree you are, the less the law applies. If you're high enough ( like Chalerm's family) you can get away with public murder. Thaksins problem was that he was nouvau riche, and although he might of had the wealth, he didnt' have the breeding to join the club. So they blackballed him. The rest is history.

that's exactly what happened. one more problem about Thaksin: he tried to open the country to foreign investments (especially Singapore). That means the high layer loose power and control of the country and people. That killed Thaksin

(sorry for my english)

There is something i can't understand:

i want to make it clear first that i don't support reds neither yellows. I'm for peace and democracy

So, am i stupid or i've missed something?

i understand why some thais are yellow but i don't understand why many farangs are yellow and post defamatory messages against reds calling them terrorists.

i don't know who is the good and the bad,

-what i know is 4 years the reds govern the country and the yellow took the country after a coup d'etat.

-after 1 year or so the reds win the new DEMOCRATIC elections.

-1 year later the yellow take the govern again because the occupy and block the airport.

-reds ask for new elections using the yellow strategy: occupying

so reds are terrorists? if yes, it means yellow are terrorist as well. used the same strategy. if yes it means someone don't know what is terrorism

yellows are democratic?

what i think is: good or not the reds won the elections in a democratic way but the yellow took govern in an undemocratic way.

if in my country would happen something like that, and i were red, i would be very angry and disappointed.

So many posts make me confused. someone could explain why they support yellows and call reds terrorists? I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Well for sure not everyone will understand every element of the Supreme Court findings but people are not stupid, they will understand parts of it and they will get the flavour.

The village people can't understand why the government is entitled to Thaksin's money. They have no idea what is really going on here...totally brainwashed. It is an uphill battle to try and educate them. A bit like trying to get a Met's fan to say the Yankees are a good ball team!

How patronising. And foolish to boot as well.

spongeman I suggest you research "Abraham Maslow's pyramid" and you might understand where the people from the small villages are coming from. No one ever gave their village one million baht to spend as the village head saw fit. No one ever started a hospital insurance plan that only cost the patient 30 baht. Thaksin knew how to win over the "village people". They don't care about all the details. Those of us here, and you included, know how those plans failed.

my girlfrinend, from chiangmai, pays 30 bath every time need cures at the hospital

i would like to know if going to Laos buy plane is fined with visa on arrival at the airport (30 dollars ).

thank u

the place is called Pang Nam Ron and is still open (at least 2 weeks ago)good luck

btw Pang Nam Ron (pong) is a border crossing with burma. Am i wrong?

Soi Dao is Soi Dao, Pang Nam Ron is a different place

the place is called Pang Nam Ron and is still open (at least 2 weeks ago)good luck

thanks-------do you think i will need luck there

more info please

ta

good luck for what? u need only a valid passport and 1000baht. will get 2 weeks.

sorry!!! i was talking about Thai Baht

sorry!!!!!!!!!

Someone could explain to an ignorant like me why -despite all of the political and economic problems- the thai bath is always strong?!?!?!??!

thank you

Yes, I meant now unlimited. No, you don't need a confirmed ticket back to your country.

thanks so much Mario for your help

A vise exempt entry is no unlimited, but indeed you only get 15 days when you re-enter Thailand by land without a visa. if you re-enter Thailand by air wihout a visa you get 30 days.

What I meant was that there no longer is a limit on the number of days you can sta on a visa exempt entry. For a while there was the rule you could only stay for 90 days in a 6 month period. That rule has been abolished.

u mean "now unlimited"? because u wrote "no unlimited.

i think u mean now is unlimited. that means i could stay forever in thailand with a visa run every 2 weeks, isn't it?

at Vientiane do i need a copy of the flight to my country? because i didn't confirm it yet.

thank u for the answer

There is no restriction on the number of visa exempt entries and never has been. As said, after four they may ask you some questions to determine if you are perhaps working in Thailand without a work permit but to date have not seen any report of anyone not being able to obtain a visa exempt entry because of too many.

That's good.

i don't want to look heavy and i trust and listen u (that's why i opened a topic here), but i remember, maybe 1 year ago, in a thaivisa's newsletter, i read " crackdown on tourist visa ... 3 visas ... " and in a post (can't find it now) someone was talking about the problem to get the 4th tourist visa without leaving thailand for at least 3 months. i thought this is the law, then the consulates can interpret it

As the 3 visa runs. this is the law. mario told is not like that; visa runs are unlimited. i think that is wrong. i've been living here for 4 years and the 3 visa run's law have always been like that. it changed last year: now u get 2 weeks, before was 4 weeks. Please confirm this

There is no limit on the number of times you can enter the Kingdom, but 4 back to back 'visa exempt' entries at a land border may lead to questioning by immigration as to what you are doing. Good luck with your visa.

maybe my english is not so good and i could misunderstand something, but i'm almost sure the limit of visa-run (after the visa expired) is 3.

what i understand from u is that i can stay in thailand forever if every 2 weeks i go to Poipet for a visa run.

thank u for the advices. Next week i'm going to Vientine. Once i'm back will post here the result.

btw MARIO2008, u wrote " There is no limit on border runs ... ". I think this is wrong. 3 is the limit for the visa-run

i hope. 2 entries? Last time (in Singapore) i was told no more then 60 days. 2 entries only if the visa is issued from my own country. i'm italian.

Maybe some countries have more privileges ....

Singapore can blow hot and cold and there are frequent rule changes at that consulate. As already said, would suggest you try at Vientiane.

so looks like the limit of 3 visa is embassy's discretion ... thanks for the suggestion, will try at Vientiane

btw if they don't give me a new visa will i get 30 days at the border even i travel by bus?

thank for all the answers

You are talking about deliberately destroying your passport, which is probably a crime. Do not do that.

Your information about only being able to get 4 tourist visas and 2 border runs is wrong. There is no limit on border runs and only some embassies/consul in the region refuse to issue after been given a certain number of tourist visas.

3 visa runs. i wrote 2 because i've already used the first one. why u say unlimited visa runs?!?!?! the limit is 3.

When i got the 4th visa in Singapore i was told that was the last one (tourist visa). And Singapore uses to be thai-visa-friendly.

i was told i've to leave the country for 3 months, then can obtain a new tourist visa.

You would not gain any days having a lost passport - it would be stamped with your current exit date. You do not say why you can not obtain a new visa or why you can only go to border two more times.

i can't obtain a new visa because i've got 4 thai visa in my passport

Hi

here is my problem:

i can't get a new tourist visa (already had 4) and i can go to the border for a visa-run 2 more times. so i left about 35 days. The problem is I will flight to Italy, my country, in 58 days. I don't want to overstay or flight to a near country. So what can i do?

If i lost my passport after i used all the visa-runs, what happen when i get the new passport? i mean, with the new passport i'm suppose to go to the immigration to get a stamp, how many days they will give me? 30? or they check my records and they give me 2 weeks? And with the new passport can i get a new tourist visa abroad? Just to postdate the ticket and avoid the winter in italy

thank you

bruno