consumerismsux

Umm

I feel obliged to share my view on this.

As a Thai who grew up in BKK and worked and lived in BKK for 21 years before spending many years in London (both educational and professional purposes) I thought I could perhaps add somthing slightly more informative to this topic.

I am now 30, own a nice car, a nice flat and have a very promising career. All I have been asked by colleagues, friends, colleagues' friends, counsins, counsins' friends is Are you married?, Where is your gf?, Why dont you have a gf?, Do you actually fancy women?, When was the last time you dated a girl and the list on this matter goes on and on. They all wanted to know, wanted to introduce someone to me or wanted to join the competition for this single, reasonably looking and well paid Thai who is according to them at the right age to be married!!

There are times when these questions are raised at lunch or dinner where 10 other people at the table would stop eating and listen to my answers. Believe me it is worst for me than for an expat as I could not really pretend not to understand that this is part of the Thai culture. I am upset and find it very impolite to be asked certain personal things but people could not carless about my feeling on this. They believe that it is absolutely normal to ask others about private lives. In my cases, I used to go out with a fw ladies but have decided to stop that completely so people are wondering why I am not with anyone seriously. And yes, Thai educated men from middle class families find it very hard to answer this and they cant always open their sexuality either. Please dont think it is easy for a Thai not like when you were in the West, it is so not easy and I can assure you that. In my case, I look totally straight and have straight friends and play footie with my mates so very few would even wonder if I could be gay. Upper middle class Thais dont take homosexuality as well as what you think they do. We dont have a gay TV star or politician who is open to the public but in the UK you do.

In the West, good and close friends who care about you of course ask a question like "are you seeing anyone" or things along that line but in a very different approach and I know that. They would not ask me this if they are not close and they would not ask me this in front of others.

Being asked by cousins about the pay is another very common thing in Thailand. The same applies to friends but not colleagues.

Hope this is useful

Hi Timothy.

I found your post VERY enlightening. I only wish that more Thai people would post & help to dispel some misconceptions.

As a foreigner, it's very difficult to find any reality or consistancy regarding the Thai code of ethics, as such, since there doesn't seem to be a 'book of rules' covering this. Although, I did attend a Thai orientation course (2 day course), at which some ladies from the Thai Ministry of Culture attended. They provided us with these little red books, which were supposedly designed to teach foreigners how to behave in Thailand. I read the book & was a little shocked. I'm sure that most of the information in that book is completely outdated as I see many Thais not adhering to the 'rules'. Nowhere in the book, did it discuss such things as 'appropriate' questions or expected questions although it did say something about Thais being curious. This statement can be applied to all of humanity.

When I lived in Argentina, it was a very common thing to be confronted by a stranger & then be subject to very personal questions, which most of the time I completely ignored. On one occassion, my boyfriend & I went to a pizza restaurant for a bite. The rather cute waiter took our orders & when he returned, asked me the following questions, in the following order;

a] Are you married?

b] How old are you?

c] What's your name?

I asked him the same questions & he bloodlywell answered them . He then stared at me, waiting for my answers. I told him that it was personal & I don't give that sort of info to strangers, although I did tell him my name.

Later, I asked my boyfriend if this was a cultural thing. He said, "No, he was just being a busybody." When I told him that many people seem to behave this way, he said that they only do this because everybody else does it. He further said that it is rude to ask such personal questions to strangers.

I think that the same thing is happening here in Thailand. It appears that almost anything can be listed under the banner of "culture" based on convention, where in actual fact, it has nothing to do with culture & more to do with convention. I also get the impression that many people use this situation as a way of being able to do things that aren't necessarily respectful. How convenient.

I also think that because of the vagueness of this "culture" thing, many farangs who don't understand something also put the misunderstood thing under the banner of "culture".

So I guess the question is, does ANYBODY have to suffer the 'spanish inquisition' concerning their private lives? It seems rather disrespectful in most other parts of the world. And as Timothy said, it's different when it comes from close friends in a private situation as opposed to work colleagues in a staffroom.

So, where are we with all of this?

I think this thread is hilarious!

"Rubbish."

"Absolute rubbish."

"Old woman at hairdressers."

"Hystrerical ranting."

I am a Buddhist and believe that death is appropriate for particularly heinious crimes.

A few posters mentioned other countries for comparison: I get particularly rankled by 'honor killings' that take place in some Muslim countries. Example: an unmarried mid-teen girl is accused of not being a virgin. She goes to a doctor and gets proof of her virginity. She comes home and her father chops off her head while she's sitting at the dinner table (get this) ....because of the fact she went to get the test! In other words, she shamed the family by getting the test.

Also common in Muslim countries: a 'supposed' crime of infidelity, let's say by a married man messing around. The sharia sanctioned retribution? The gigolo's sister is legally allowed to be gang raped by the male members of the offended party.

.....Legally sanctioned gang rape of mid-teen girls by Sharia law! ....as well as religously sanctioned murder of one's own brood.

It's tough enough being born a female in most countries - but being born female in a fundamentalist Muslim country is the worst.

....oops, almost forgot, In India and China, if you're determined to be a female in the womb (or right after birth) you're lucky to even be allowed to survive. So perhaps it's even worse in India and China (than a Muslim country) to be conceived female.

.....and we put ourselves above dogs? Dogs would never do such sicko things.

listen up people and read the lectures of Professor Brahmburgers which contain a treasure of education and experience. in one of his former lives he must have been born as a female in a muslim country and in another life he lived many years with muslims. one small caveat though... except for the last two sentences in his posting he produced nothing but uneducated and deplorable BULLSH*T² with the obvious intent to insult the believers in one the world's major religions.

moderators please act!

Good one!

Hey I bought a mobile phone with a 1-2-call sim card last month. I added 100 baths of credit. After about a month, It said I had to but some more credit or the number would be disconnected. So I added 100 baths. a week after that it said I had to add some more again (I had 90 baths left), so I added 50 baths... 3 days after it said I had to add some more again... The thing is I didn't make a single phone call in that time, and I still had plenty of credit! what should I do ? They disconnected the line and it will expire in a few days if I don't add some credit... What the heck is the deal with these people ? I have to buy a new card every week ??

anyone know about it ?

many thanks

Although I haven't of it for ages, SIM card fraud is a possibility. Why don't you buy a new SIM card (& register it), and then see what happens?

Hi MercMan.

You could try the Hua Hin/Cha-am forum. Click on the link below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showforum=34

My comments in blue.

First of all, the statement "he tells you what a good time he had" is purely designed to get a reaction from you. Disappoint him by not giving the required reaction. If you do react, he will be controlling you.

Maybe start joking with him about what style he was using during the rape? If it is love you are talking about, why try to disappoint him. What are you trying to create from disappointing him? Is that the main thing we want in life, to disappoint people? I do not get pleasure from disappointing people, regardless of whoever this person is. My response would be to tell him I might forgive him if forgiving him is going to change him. If he learns to love people, I might forgive him. But if he keeps on the best way to do would be to remove him for good.

Now, you are just being silly

Secondly, the world is not about 'cause & effect'. When one learns that they can choose their responses, the 'cause & effect' routine is nullified.

Thirdly, people react to the murder of a loved one in a somewhat irrational way...it is an emotive reaction. When you break it down & look at the situation for what it really is, avenging murder it is all about making the 'living' feel better, since the dead person cannot be brought back to life.

What I am talking about here is not about making the "living feel better". It is obvious that the damages are irreversable. It is just that we don't want it to happen again.

Who is 'we' & how has the summary execution of 'criminals' ever stopped 'it' happening again?

In summary, avenging murder has little to do with keeping the bad guys off the streets (lets face it, there are still lots of bad guys ON the streets) & much to do with making the living feel good. I would suggest that if you want to feel good, simply do what you do at any other moment in your life...CHANGE YOUR MIND.

I know how to feel good already.

Yeah..."a murder a day keeps the vermin away."

Let's say if a family member you love a lot was raped, tortured and killed by someone and caught on video tape and you'd seen it, he is caught and when he sees you he tells you what a good time he had. He tells you I am probably going to escape jail or get out just in 20/30 years. So what! I will be doing it again!

May I ask you what your response is?

This is an easy one.

First of all, the statement "he tells you what a good time he had" is purely designed to get a reaction from you. Disappoint him by not giving the required reaction. If you do react, he will be controlling you.

Secondly, the world is not about 'cause & effect'. When one learns that they can choose their responses, the 'cause & effect' routine is nullified.

Thirdly, people react to the murder of a loved one in a somewhat irrational way...it is an emotive reaction. When you break it down & look at the situation for what it really is, avenging murder it is all about making the 'living' feel better, since the dead person cannot be brought back to life.

In summary, avenging murder has little to do with keeping the bad guys off the streets (lets face it, there are still lots of bad guys ON the streets) & much to do with making the living feel good. I would suggest that if you want to feel good, simply do what you do at any other moment in your life...CHANGE YOUR MIND.

If you look at the bigger picture, it is not about revenge at all.

We are talking about the best ways of dealing with these people if they are not capable of returning to become a normal person who will not go killing or raping people any time they can. It is a serious problem and just trying to solve it.

Let's say if a guy raped someone, he gets into jail, after some years he comes out and start raping dozens of people again and goes to jail, do you think we should still let him out risking other people's safety?

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Good then, we can now execute someone without the courts approval. No laws!

You will forgive me, won't you? You will still give me a hug and just say "try not to do it next time, please.", right?

After the 10 000th hug (complete with kisses, if you want), you'll be such a nice person, you'll not want to commit such terrible crimes again.

Deciding to kill somebody is a unique decision.

Being against the death penalty does not make me an anarchist.

European countries have removed this shameful punishment.

They have not fallen into chaos.

I would feel much safer on a typical European street than an American one despite their eagerness to execute in many states.

would you make that unique decision if a member of your family were to be raped or murdered

I wouldn't but by the sound of it, you would...would you?

I understand it is difficult. But according to what you are saying, there should not even be laws. No one can decide.

You are exactly correct! . Laws should be abolished. They have never ever achieved the purpose of their existence.

Whats that! You think that the whole world will go crazy if the laws are removed? Do you really think that we are like caged animals & that if the rules were gone, we would turn into crazed beasts?

I think that if we drop our 'outer' rules' we would find our 'inner' rules to be much more loving, creative & spontaneous by comparison.

It's very easy to sit in a chair & proclaim "death to all bad people" & this is because that you feel that you are in no way connected to the "bad people". In actual fact you, like me, are very connected. Do you really think that bad people are happy? Do you really think that more pain & suffering is the answer when you, yourself, already know that pain & suffering is what makes people crazy?

Rules nor prisons will solve any of the problems we speak of...history speaks for itself here. On the other hand, showing compassion & forgiveness DOES solve these problems. It's just that there are so many people who insist upon following the unforgiving & compassionless rules.

Finally, it is ridiculous to even think that some forms of execution are more 'humane' than others. There is nothing humane about the summary killing of anything. It is an act of senseless violence, which is usually committed out of fear...& more violence will not solve this problem. You'd better hope that you meet someone like me when you are at deaths door other than meeting someone who 'follows the rules'.

BTW, when I say 'you', I don't mean you. I mean 'everybody'.

The comments so far have been very interesting & to some degree, enlightening. Thanks to all.

But I tend to go along with the ideas of FranklyNoMore. I think that he is living in the 'reality' of things. I'm not a person who simply kowtows to any authority unless I think that the authority is being reasonable. In any case, I think it is reasonable for others to acknowledge that people are different & cannot be expected to all have the same ideas. I guess what I'm saying is that certain people do need to be told to 'mind your own business', politely. This is not a sure way to gain friends but it will weed out the real people from the gossips. I don't see that this has much to do with culture. I further think that culture is often used as an excuse to get away with things that would otherwise be distasteful or unwarranted. It doesn't take any effort or responsibility whatsoever to follow any rule but it does require effort to truly appreciate anothers right to their own life. The cost of being an individual? Rejection...& I know all about that. But since I am very familiar with it, I guess I could risk it. I just don't want to become a 'target' for sick people with narrow minds.

I can understand the benefit of totally 'going with the flow' but at what point does this start to affect your life? I think that there is a 'tradeoff', where you feel pain by not 'going with the flow' & you also feel pain by conforming to things that are not to your liking. As the old saying goes, "You can satify 80% of people, 20% of the time & you can satisy 20% of people, 80% of the time."

For now, I will continue to dodge & weave around these uncomfortable issues. I guess that the only reason why I am uncomfortable is because I fear that there may be repercussions if my sexuality were to become public information. If I didn't have this fear, I wouldn't be writing about it. I guess old habits die hard. I do not wish to go back to my old way of living whereby my whole life was a lie...a 'coverup'. This was one of the reasons why I came to Thailand...I hoped that I could escape these fears. But I brought them with me, didn't I.

Maybe I should 'come out'? It would certainly end all the questions...but at what cost? Hmmmmmm!?

Quite some time ago & I believe in the USA, a psychology student conducted a test. I am unable to remember the object of the test but nonetheless...

He paid a number of randomly selected people (about 100, I think) to simply push a button when instructed to do so.

The scenario.

The test subject was brought into a room, in which he saw a human strapped to a chair. Electrical wires were connected to various parts of the chair. The person in the chair was seperated from the test subject by a sound-proof 'one way' mirror. In front of the test subject was a panel with a push-button on it.

The test subject was told to press the push-button when instructed. They were also told that by doing so, the person in the chair would be given an electric shock of a fixed duration - not enough to kill but enough to cause great discomfort & pain.

What the test subjects did not know was that the person in the chair was an actor & would feign being shocked. The actor could easily do this because when the test subject pressed the 'shock' button, the actor would see a light turn on in his room & so could react at the correct times.

The results of the test shocked the student.

More than 50% of test subjects did not question the fact that they would be inflicting pain on a fellow human being. Nor did they show any empathy for the person in the chair.

The minority of test subjects refused to push the button when they learned what it would do. They disobeyed.

I guess this shows that only a minority of people are willing to question authority when it come to issues of humanity.

I think that it is a great shame that a country with a majority Buddhist population has the death penalty.

I am 100% opposed to it in all cases and believe those involved are murderers.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Buddhism believe in reincarnation and as such there is no death and therefore the death penalty has maybe a different meaning for Buddhists.

The first precept in buddhism is not to kill any living being.

The buddha said;

All tremble at violence; all fear death. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

All tremble at violence; life is dear to all. Putting oneself in the place of another, one should not kill nor cause another to kill.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn...hp.10.budd.html

I think this makes the Buddhist position on the death penalty clear.

And, as per usual, 'authorities' have manipulated religion, applied it to 'culture', and then made it law. It's no wonder people blindly follow 'the rules'. It's because they are so confused...it's easier to not question such things.

This happens all over the world.

-- you wouldn't be well received if you brought an obvious prostitute to a "normal" social occasion.

What does an obvious prostitute look like?

Can somebody please point this out to me as well?

Who is this prost...I mean, lady?

From (Dutch) Kasperski website:

A spokesman for Seagate, which recently acquired Maxtor, said the company was investigating Kaspersky's findings. "

There goes quality harddrives...out the back door with seagate rubbish.

Awww Jeez, we're still at this huh? After 18 pages all I can conclude from the posts here and from the original blog is that some people feel that their lives should not be sullied by being forced to shop in the same place as other people whom they deem to be "undesirable." Personally I think that type of attitude is disgusting and reprehensible whether it is displayed in Thailand, Europe, North America, or Outer Space. It is snobbery at best and biggotry at worst. It is time to grow up and realize that we are ALL human beings and should have the right to shop, eat, walk, etc. wherever we want as long as we are obeying the law.

Agree totally but I would prefer to say;

"It is time to grow up and realize that we are ALL human beings and should have the right to shop, eat, walk, etc. wherever we want as long as we are not interferring with the business of others."

There are no such things as 'miracles' etc. All of these events can be explained quite logically.

As for that totally absurd story about the 2 boys who drowned in a UK river & then the guy seeing a picture of a monk etc...what complete & utter rubbish!

Anybody can make up a story to fit a set of circumstances. Such a practice has been used for thousands of years by the 'powerful' to keep the masses fearful of an unseeable power. In this way, the powerful minority can keep their position & status etc.

'readers digest' is rather a source of mis-information by one of the american secret agencies, which set it up back in 1950 s

I agree totally.

I did check the web for info on Scandinavia. Decided it was too good to be true (Readers Digest info) & the weather? Well, generally it sucks!

As Thailand is possibly one of the most hierarchical countries where everyone has a 'place' the questions that are asked are to try and define where you, as a foreigner who isn't as easily pigeonholeable as a Thai, fit into the grand scheme of things. You'll alos be asked about your salary and your age. They aren't being rude, they're just trying to fit you into their world.

I appreciate what you are saying endure but over the last year, I have been asked these questions repetitively by some of my Thai colleagues. By & large, I've also noticed that these particular are the 'gossips', which to me, reflects that they have a boring life.

And as Tyke said, I suppose I can answer these 'nosy' questions any way I like. Only once (not at my present school) have I resorted to saying, "It's not your business to know my personal affairs". This was an extraordinary situation in which I felt I was being interrogated/harrassed.

Anyway, I will 'weather the weather, whatever the weather' & hopefully, one day, these rather tedious questions will cease.

If your walking, just completely IGNORE them..

- No eye contact

- No sudden movements

- No noises what so ever

Just walk along, they will never charge in and attack you, unless they were trained to

Just keep it cool and steady.

Having to threaten the dogs over and over again, will just make them more aggresive, for instance the method of 'stoop down and touch the ground' ..

This is the correct thing to do but bear in mind that there are no guarantees with ANYTHING in life.

In addition, not only must one not show fear but one must also genuinely NOT be afraid. Dogs are now used at Sydney's Kingsford Smith airport to 'detect' fear in people.

If walking, slowing your pace helps. DO NOT smile at the dogs. DO NOT speak to the dogs. DO NOT give them food. If you choose to stand still, slowly fold your arms across your chest (so the dogs can't grab your hands), slow your breathing & think of something totally pleasant.

Flame can also be used as a deterrent but a cigarette lighter will not do the trick. High pitched loud noises can also work (one of those electronic devices).

......

For example, when a friend come over to visit, he was commenting on how nice it was that the Thai people all stuck together and voted for parties with names such as "Thai rak Thai". When I asked him whether he would be voting BNP (British Nationalist Party) when he got home, and he said "of course not, that's different". Kind of a double standard in my opinion.

.....

I don't acknowledge any type of 'caste/class' system or attitude.

But just to be obscure, I will suggest that there are 2 distinct classes/castes in Thailand...the 'non-thinkers' (the majority) & the thinkers (the minority). But strangely, I think this is true in many other countries. It's just that Thais seem more than happy to only see the superficial aspect of people, whilst applying their rather complicated & 'deep' cultural rules. The whole thing is a bit of an oxymoron really.

What's the weather like in Scandinavia? I don't like anyhting below 25 degrees Celsius.

Is Scandinavia 'gay friendly'?

Please do not bother what other people think and/ore say about you.

If you are happy with your partner (wherever she/him is from) please enjoy your time together.

If you hear some people talking bad about you just reply: Yet mung!

This is by far the most sensible & useful statement on this thread so far. I would only differ in my reply to someone who speaks badly of me...I would not say anything. The 'shitslinger' would simply not exist.

I've lived in Thailand for a little over 2 years now. I have worked as a teacher at 2 schools during this period, my current school being my longest serving job (more than 1 year).

I realise that one of the many Thai idiosyncracies is to ask others rather personal questions & even though I'm consistent (& honest) with my answers, the questions never seem to stop. I'm not suggesting that I face a torrent of questions on a regular basis but invariably, I will be questioned about my 'status'.

Some examples;

"Do you like Thai ladies?"

"Do you have a Thai wife?"

"Do you live alone?"

If I answer any of these questions in the negative, the response is usually something like;

"Why? Don't you like Thai ladies?"

I've even had Thai colleagues try to 'set me up' with someone (a female) whom was thought to be appropriate for me.

I am very reluctant to tell anybody at my workplace about my sexual preference (gay man) as I have heard whispers that it is generally frowned upon for a teacher to be gay in Thailand.

This kind of thing has happened to me before in Australia but with a definite sinister ulterior motive. I don't believe that my Thai colleagues have any plot to 'expose' anybody so that they can erradicate any possible moral malevolence but at the same time, I still carry this fear.

What do others think of my situation? Has it happened or is it happening to others now? Has anybody been able to put a 'respectful' end to these uncomfortable questions?

Ps I think that one of my Thai colleagues is...has many gay mannerisms (voice, limp wrist, mincing walk, avoids everybody). He is also one of the least tolerant people whom I've met. I'm sure he has some big hangups, which he seems to take out on the students by way of physical or humiliatory punishment.