akaika

A minimum of 2 pilots but long flights have up to 6. Longer flights have 1 full crew on rest at destination sometimes 2 or 3. At least one crew on rest in home country. Training, called sick and vacation... Actually this is not over the top at all. Pilots paid salary plus per diem so even extra pilots are not as expensive as might be considered as they are really compensated only for the days they fly.

It seems they are actually short rather than over staffed since Thai still gets pilots on 'loan' from the air force too.

1,350 pilots for a fleet of currently 93 aircraft flying to just 78 international destinations (plus a handful of domestic ones)?

Seems the entire pilot roster is just as hopelessly over-staffed as top management.

1,350 pilots / 93 aircraft. That's just over 14 pilots per plane. Seems a bit "over the top" if you ask me.

at least 2 but up to 5 pilots in a single flight. A crew on rest at each destinations and sometimes 2 crews. And a crew at home on rest. Sick calls and vacations. This is a normal amount of crew...

Let see western governments do the same to Thai nationals with investments abroad, make these rules reciprocal.

These rules are already reciprocal. Foreign owned companies in the USA is harder than you might imagine. Recently had a friend that had already started to set up a company. Left USA to obtain the business visa and received the temporary business visa but upon returning, she was detained for investigation of the business by the immigration agents in the airport in Hawaii. After they reviewed the website, it was determined this business would allow revenue to leave the US so she was refused entry. After more than 48 hours in detention in the airport, with a toddler, she had to immediately return to Thailand.

"...i wonder how they even got the visas to get across the pond in the first place."

1. I don't think they actually flew in via an open international like LAX or Oahu and

2. There are no corrupt officials in US immigration or embassies around the world?

Greasing palms in many areas helps a lot of people get what they want - it's just that those who grease 'always' do so for illegal means.

The comment about they travelled there of their own free will so they were not forced labour, is ridiculous. They were conned into promise of lucrative jobs and travelled by their own free will only to have their passports confiscated, any chance of monies coming in being deducted (at exorbitant interest), for their travel costs and being made to sign over property as security thus they become slave labour. What is not clear about the methodology here?

You obviously have not seen the agency groups travel into LAX. And there is nothing ridiculous about traveling on their own free will. Living in a "modified container" is better than living in a tin shack especially when you can get 10 times the daily salary for easier work in many cases. In America, any legitimate company can easily sponsor special needs visas good for up to 3 years. Casinos arrange work/study for any "college" student. The farm working program is only applicable for Hawaii because Hawaii has no seasonal migrant workers. I know plenty that want to move to London to work in their friend's cousin's sister-in-law's restaurant and KNOW FULL WELL that it will be 15-18 hour days and they will sleep in the kitchen pantry on the floor but they want to earn 50,000 baht a month.

Slavery and forced labor is one thing but so many of these are clearly on the side of free will.

This the cumulative state over many many years of Thailands inability to product quality teachers, quality education programs for the majority of the poor in this country.

There has been enough money raised thru governement corruption to provided a first class skills and education e very child here in this country who begs on the streets in Bangkok or who lives in 90% of the country which lives in the sheer ongoing agony of poverty whos shelters are made of tin and wooden shacks.

Who ought to serve time are the people who knowning let this happen; the ones who have filled their pockets from

payoffs etc etc etc

Well said. And there are other countries that make Thailand look like Singapore regarding quality of education. This is a lot closer to the truth of who is to blame...

Forced labor of 400 Thais on US farms? I believe the 400 went there at their own free wills.

As mentioned in another topic, please stop making ridiculous remarks and go back sleep, my dear.

forced? probably not. duped? definitely.

i wonder how they even got the visas to get across the pond in the first place.

The U.S. is the one to set-up this farm employment program because either 1) no American is willing to do the work, and 2) if the American do want the work, the rates are too high to allow the produce to be sold to the public reasonably. The special circumstance visas were issued by the U.S. One of the farms in the scandal is based in Hawaii, called Aloun Farms (found this: http://www.hawaiinew....asp?s=12836451).

Funny thing is there is another type of program for students available which is a work-study type offering in the U.S. The students also get special visas allowing them to work for a limited time. Agents here and in the U.S. take a portion of their salaries as pay. They work menial jobs such as Pizza Huts, tollway booths, amusement parks, etc. It's for filling spaces that average Americans don't want.

So who's to blame? The lazy Americans and governement opening these opportunities for foreigners? Or the sleazy agencies? Take your pick.

The multiple choice "who's to blame" question, besides not having a correct choice, totally misses the point.

Duped? Not likely with the Hawaii farm and the Colorado restaurant cases. Most of the people that do these overseas agency gigs know at least one if not several that have returned with success stories (read: money) and are freely willing to accept the circumstances.

Drill down into the stories and you find the restaurant operator in CO only charged $4500 of which $1500 was a bond. Notice there was no charge for violating wage and compensation laws but only for not paying the employee federal payroll tax (social security) which the employees are not entitled to as non-citizens. Up to 32 hours overtime per week is what? 13 hour days? In the restaurant business? The horror!

And this was the, "...up to..." MAXIMUM overtime in several years of this forced labor. Maybe the employees were "okay" with the work conditions and compensation? Under the H1B specialty worker visa, the employee MUST return to the home country every three years (and they can not do "visa runs" to Mexico or Canada to extend the H1B).

Certainly the story about the farm in Hawaii indicates the workers had no serious grievances and many even came to the court proceedings in support of the owner/operator. Again no Federal Wage and Compensation Act indictments... Only trafficking in persons. So maybe someone told some of the employees at the farm that if they filed a complaint and there were a trafficking in persons conviction, as "victims" they would be eligible for citizenship under H.R. 7311?

Maybe an overly righteous college student, or one with a grievance with his restauranteur employer decided he wanted to "do the right thing" and got the authorities involved and they did what they must do?

To be clear, if the conditions are either truly inhumane or not acceptable to the worker or the situation were completely misrepresented (what isn't misrepresented a little in sales) then something MUST be done. The who's to blame is a much longer discussion I think.

And BTW, one of the largest U.S. employers in the "work/study" visa program are the casinos.

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

NOW

If someone had said the boy should not be there i would have agreed but dont spout crap on here

That's what a human shield is - "don't shoot at us behind standing behind the red barricades because we have brought our children here."

Not even worth a reply if thats what you think a human shield is

That's what EVERYONE thinks a human shield is because that is EXACTLY what a human shield IS.

I just did the exact same thing or at least very similar. i knew the company was not going to report that i left the position to the labor office. therefore, i continued to use the visa and even entered and exited LOS many times before the visa date ended.

When it did end, i wanted to convert from visa based on WP to visa based on marriage. it was no problem to do this in my local immigration office.

first, the immigration office sent me to the labor office to have the wp cancelled (the labor office had no idea that i had actually finished working some time before). the labor office issued a ted-10 (that is what they call the form and i still have it in passport if someone wants a scan). then i brought the ted-10 back to immigration. the ted10 gives you 7 calendar days to leave unless your visa expires first. immigration then cancelled the visa and stamped "under consideration for visa case#..." and i completed processing the visa in the normal manner.

Maizefarmer, can you provide a link to the gov website that you referred to?

OP mentions an excise tax license. I have talked about getting this license and it doesn't seem too hard.

I have also been informed law has been changed to allow production for own use and the government town offices have even taught farmers how to ferment/distill properly so people don't go blind. I will not swear to the accuracy of this last statement but will check it out.

BTW, Coopers is available in Singapore and the owner of that countries largest internet based homebrew supply store sells to quite a few expats here as I was recently informed.

Malt extract is often purchased for other uses as well and was for a while available in GNC but too costly for a homebrew base.

We have today received confirmation from the Thai Consulate in Penang that they will now require the company to show 8 million baht in registered capitalization as well as a valid work permit to obtain a one year multiple entry NON-IMM B (business) visa.

They have indicated that these are the MINIMUM requirements for the visa and they can still deny applications at their discretion (as always).

We are currently checking with the Embassy in KL to see if similar restrictions have been applied.

This is absurd. If I didn't know and love so many good Thai people I would want to say 'f*** them, let their economy crash and burn". About a year ago I started a thread here about my problems getting a non-B visa in Penang and was accused of being a F-up because I (incorrectly) blamed the agent. Using the same papers and application in the USA I had my visa in ten minutes. My screen name is DivinGuy but I am a SW engineer and did nothing but shut down my business in the US and restart it here at half-price to my clients. I had two million baht paid up capital. I do nothing but bring money to Thailand. I take no jobs away from anyone because my work is based on expertise in a few specific areas and connections in the US.

I am watching my friends suffer because exports are dropping and tourism (a MUCH smaller slice of the pie) is dropping, too. <deleted> are these idiots thinking? Are they that unaware of the problems Thailand is facing? Thailand didn't make these problems but still has to deal with them. Over the next couple of years the country will need all the income it can get. People like me do nothing but supply a small cash infusion

Eight million baht? So what does someone like me, but who doesn't want to go back to their home country, do? Create a fantasy that their expertise is worth six million baht?

I have never been part of the "They hate us, let's go home" camp, but this, finally, is pushing me that way. I stayed quiet about the 90/180 rule, I stayed quiet about the 15 days at a land border rule, but this is ridiculous. To all you lovers of the Thai Immigration Dept., please tell me how this will benefit the country or people.

(Mods I am sorry. If this post is too inflammatory then please delete it, but don't ban me. I am a long time member with few posts.)

This is just one consulate. As far as I know, it is still quite easy to go back to the US once a year and receive your multiple entry, non-immogrant B visa at one of the many consulates. Stay away from the big places like LA, NY and Chicago because it is very diffucult. The cost has steadily gone up and is now $175 US.

Has anyone tried to make a complaint regarding this matter? Before everyone screams "yeah right" I can assure you that when LA was randomly changing the rules in 2005 the consular was recalled because of the number of complaints.

DivinGuy, maybe in your frustration you exaggerate a bit when you say you got the visa in an hour? I have worked with most of them in the US and even knew some consulars personally and I still waited a day for my visa.

Stileo, Thai consulates in the US have areas of responsibility and it is common for them to refuse service if you do not have proof of residence in there area. Not too hard to get around but sometimes causes problems. Also, Chicago is not a big consulate in the same sense as LA and NY;much less business. Finally, if you take away Chicago, NY, LA and the Embassy, all the others are actually honorary consulates.

There was a relatively recent (< 12 months) prior thread on this topic, so try a thread topic search.

I am also interested and tried to thread search but still have not found the referenced thread. If anyone finds it or gets more info please post here or PM me.

Thanks

In the slight chance there is a dangerous toxic substance present, lab testing before taste testing would be good. Vetiver grass is available from local government agricultural offices at a very low cost but it may not be the grass you want. It is not a grass for a yard. It works great around a fish pond to control erosion.

When you choose the manure, remember that all the seed from grazing cows will grow in your new yard...don't use composted weeds or you will have the same problem.

It is possible to turn completely useless growing dirt into good soil in 5 years with a lot of work. Need to adjust clay and sand, add fertilizer and compost.

I would also suggest bananas. You can spot prepare the soil for these.

good luck...

Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like Portland, Houston or possibly Alabama will be our best bet. What should we list as our reason for travel as we are not over 50 and are both US citizens, my wife plans on doing a TEFL course soon after we arrive and we both plan on doing some Thai language courses at some point but we are not planning on booking any of this ahead of time so is it even worth mentioning when applying for our visas. I will try to call the consulates this week to get our applications but will probably wait until the middle or end of August to submit them since we don’t leave until September 15. If we can’t get the non-Os can we still get the double entry tourist visas or will we have to submit new applications. Thank you peaceblondie for the teaching info for my wife I will have her post on the teaching forum as I know she was curious about a few things. I will be sure to report back what happens with the consulates.

As has already been mentioned, Consulates in the US will not usually provide service unless you live in the area they are responsible for. There are some exceptions (DC and NYC) and for the others, if you can provide an address in their jurisdiction (a relative) it should work. Some are very strict about this (LA)

Speaking of LA, the farang that works there doesn't process or issue the visas. They are all issued by the MOFA officer in the office behind the glass counter. LA used to be a very troublesome station and enough people complained that the consular was recalled a couple years ago. They have improved but the DMV-like employee is the only one to answer the main phone (which she rarely does) and answer questions in the reception.

As for phoning any consulate, most are not going to be too helpful over the phone. The main reason is they sometimes give information without seeing documents and then have to change what they said causing them to have very upset customers. Besides, most are not very large posts so there are not many people to answer phones. New York and DC are the possible exceptions to this.

The cost is the same at every consulate in the US. A website may have an error but the price is set country by country and consulates within a country have no authority to deviate and the Embassy would be very happy to receive a complaint if otherwise.

I do not believe it could be more clear - below is directly from Immigration Hqs web site

If a foreigner leaves the country and re-enters, the day count starts at 1 in every case

I agree what is written couldn't be more clear. However, a neighbor recently informed me that he was out of the country when he should have made his 90 day report and then went to the immigration office a little more than a week after returning to Thailand and was fined 2000 baht. I know (and explained to him) the 90 days starts over when he returned and (1) why did he even go and (2) didn't the officer see the arrival stamp in his passport that should have 'reset the clock.' He said the immigration officer clearly saw the new arrival stamp because, not only was he fined but also admonished for not coming in sooner after he returned to Thailand.

After his experience, he doesn't believe that the day count starts over. I related this story to a friend that returned last week from a month away in the same situation (time away overlapped 90 report). We wondered if this could have been similar to the situation in Hua Hin where foreigners have been fined for not reporting within 24 hrs? My friend, not concerned by our ponderings, made a trip to the immigration office Monday and was told the day starts again at 1.

I have to speculate that when the first friend, a very polite and courteous individual that speaks Thai, went to the immigration office and stated he was "late" and possibly even said he was prepared to pay the penalty that the immigration officer obliged.

What a great reply. Well summarized with a reference! Thanks.

hi there.

my thai GF of 18 months has been to AUST twice on turist visas (3 & 6 months) and is finding it hard to feel as though she is contributing to our life, financially.

So she is very keen to work, so i look up the requirements of a working visa and it said she needs to have a deploma or a degree of some sort. Which she has not, she has only finished junior high school and worked in factories since.

Is it possable to be granted the visa regardless?

if so could i have some info on the prosses.

THANK YOU SO MUCH

Sean

What kind of work will she do? Perhaps have her attend the Thai massage course at Wat Po then she will have "professional certificates" that may even help her get a very good paying job in Australia? Some countries require the "professional" course but others will accept the basic and advanced courses which total about 3 weeks long and are not very expensive.

I have been amused (being The Muse) by the continuous dialogue about visa-this and visa-that. Much of it smacks of farang manipulation so "I can get what I want".....all about me me me.

Those who ask permission for the privilege to live in Thailand with respect and authentic desire to immerse into Thai culture I bet have a high rate of success.

The farang demand to have one's own way by muscling one's way in with financial clout....well, life just doesn't respect such an attitude. It's largely subconscious because it's built in to materialistic societies.

I would have to disagree with your premise. If you read visa-this and visa-that more closely, you would see that many with respect and authenticity are STILL not successful. This forum sheds light on what values, tactics if you will, are rewarded in the "privilege to live in Thailand" visa process. What works and what doesn't work are chosen by the Thais not the farang. I would agree that any display of the 'this is my right to be here or to do this or that' attitude will be detrimental in getting a visa in Thailand... or doing almost anything in Thailand, but also getting a visa in ANY other country, and even in doing most anything in almost any other country too.

I would counter your bet with one that asserts financially 'capable' farang do not have near the problems as those that ask permission for the privilege with respect etc.. If this "says" something about a society, it says it about the Thai society...

*) OR: why do we need a re-entry permit AT ALL, when we are approved to stay for a full year? So what if I go out of the country for a holiday, my year extension should be enough to allow entry back in? Or am I missing something, since I do not believe this is only done to collect higher fees...?!?

Here is one of the confusions over Thai 'visas'...

You need a valid visa to enter Thailand.. You then are given a duration of stay.

Visa's are issued outside of Thailand and cannot be issued from immigration locally (only changed classes etc).. They only have the power to change your duration of stay (extension) not issue you a new 'visa'.

Hence to return into thailand you must get a single or multiple re-entry permit to allow that duration of stay to remain current and not expire when you leave.

Duration of stay (and thier extensions) are a different beastie to visa's.

LivinLOS explained this well and the explanation is correct not only for Thai visas but all countries as well. Visas are granted based on international agreements between individual states or sometimes groups of states through the states' ministry of foreign affairs or department of state.

Terms of entry (reason for entry, re-entry, duration of stay etc..) are determined internally within the country by immigration, citizenship, and labour departments. Therefore, these are the the same departments that grant extensions and re-entry permits.

Technically, a visa is not an approval for entry but actually an approval to apply for entry. Entry approval is actually granted (based on valid travel documents and visa) by the appropriate officer (usually immigration but some countries combine customs with immigration) at the port of disembarkation (some may want to call it port of embarkation). It is still possible to be denied entry for various reasons at this point.

Thailand passed 1st country-wide ban on smoking in 2002. Even before Ireland. Enforcement will be 'selective' to be sure (like the law banning use of mobile phones while driving). Contrary to some OP comments, indoor air quality is 10 to 20 times worse than the (indisputably poor) outdoor air quality in places allowing smoking. Even though I don't smoke, I am against these bans and think the government should incentivize businesses that adopt a ban and then the business can decide to provide for its customers demands. The government's incentive expense should offset government incurred health expenses from smoking. There is only one problem with this...

Economists have shown that worldwide, governments (except for one country) make more from tobacco tax then they spend on health care. In general, it is in the best interest for any government that pays for health care if its citizens die as soon as possible after they retire. Smoking helps this.

Rarely have I seen the amount of negativity in comments as in this post. It seems obvious many are increasingly frustrated with aspects of life in Thailand. How many forum members came to Thailand because it was a legal (and moral) Utopia? No doubt, Thai bureaucracy is frustrating. Police riding motorbikes after shift without helmets is a double standard but none of us drive 80 on the motor-way either. Thailand, like all countries, possesses a dynamic mix of bureaucrats making rules, police selectively enforcing them, both of the these affected to some extent by public opinion. The lawmakers feel they are doing the right thing. The police are trying to make a living. The public opinion voice is a softer one than in western countries but similarly with the wealthy (well educated) having more influence. No surprise, this likely connects to standards in education systems.

Why not write letters to the editor at the Nation? Or, draft an 'open source' letter to the editor here in the forum and allow others to contribute?

If your papers are correct, you don't need the help of any lawyer or consultant.

It will be a time consuming affair, but I made it without any outside help and anybody can make it without outside help if your application papers meet the conditions.

Just start collecting the papers early enough.

The most important figure remains the annual tax.

It's a very transparent process, not need to pay money under the table.

Could you clarify what you mean by the annual tax?

If he is from the US it is easy, I have used the 1 year multiple entry visa three times, the cost is now 150 dollars it used to be 125. It is a non o visa and you must exit the country with in 90 days and return, I used to go to Cambodia and return in a couple of hours. You can get the visa in a council in the states.

In my experience, different consulates may follow different rules. Previously, Los Angles refused to give any visa for "business" because they consider it "working." I discussed this with the MFA and they made efforts to correct the problem. Previously, LA and Chicago would not provide service without some proof of domicile in their region. LA actually recommended I try for the non-O visa for buisiness from Chicago as they were less restrictive if I could somehow satisfy the Chicago consulate's domicile requiremnet (which I could). However, the company letter was addressed to "Royal Thai Consulate, Los Angeles" so it was still a no-go in Chicago! Since then, I only get letters addressed to, "to whom it may concern"

This spider thread (no pun intended) reminded me of two spider experiences. The first involved a spider very similar to the cane spider pictured earlier in the thread. I caught it when i lived in Japan. At that time, a knowledgeable friend identified it as a wolf spider and it had about 20 eyes clearly visible on the top of its head pointing forward, sideways, and some to the back. It was extremely fast and I can't beleive I was able to catch it! My girlfriend at the time had very serious objections that it be allowed in the house (i caught it outside) but i was able to convince her since it was placed in some "unbreakable" plasticware and the plastic container was placed 'out of the way' so she wouldn't have to see it. I went out of town for an emergency and forgot the spider, not just until I came back but altogether even after I returned. I found it months later and was sure it was dead. I shook the container.....it didn't move. Certain it was dead, I opened the lid and to be sure, I blew on it. It came up out of that container and I felt it run across my arm and then bounce off the side of my face. The store had never seen the unbreakable plasticware broken and so there was a bit of a debate regarding the limited lifetime warranty covering spider/adrenaline damage.

Many years ago, playing cards at a friends house, his wife said she must be having an acid flashback because she saw the cactus plant in the center of the table move. Everyone just laughed until about half an hour later, we all saw the same flashback! the cactus (a typical barrel cactus about 6 inches across) started to pulsate...like it was breathing. we all sat there and watched for a minute then the top of the cactus erupted in millions of baby spiders flowing out of the cactus like shiny silver water. didn't even know they were spiders at first, but when we did, the collective heebeejeebees was incredible.

That reminds me, I'm all out of bug spray