SurfRider

"With those details, we can know whether Kasikorn's handling of over-the-counter withdrawals is better or worse than a comparable ATM transaction"

Either that, or you could simply get your exchange rates from a bar-girl in Pat-Pong -- which appears to be the only standard required for some of the people posting here . . .

( sorry, couldn't resist )

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"I totally agree with Thaimate. SurfTrader's post is incorrect."

Why do you folks continue posting information here that you are not willing to substantiate with facts?

Especially when recent data posted in this thread indicates that your claims are not correct?

Why not simply post your hard data that you believe backs your claims and be done with it???

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"I've gotten a little confused here -- I thought I'd spotted that . . ."

You think that's confusing! -- Maybe this new silly little quirk is not all that confusing-- but hopefully at least a bit amusing-- to Expats who marvel at the endless parade of Thai boondoggles that confront the wary intrepid traveler attempting to survive in this bizarre wayward corner of world-- detached from the reality of the civilized world. . .

The News: "Immigration crackdown on border runners --- BANGKOK (thaivisa.com) -- Thai Immigration Bureau has issued a new regulation to be enforced from today, June 1, 2009. --- A foreigner who has entered the kingdom four (4) consecutive times on 15 days tourist exemption stamps, will not be allowed to leave the country and re-enter Thailand. The only option is to exit Thailand and re-enter via an international airport.

What's next? -- 4 consecutive foreign account ATM withdrawals and they'll force us to do the 5th withdrawal in Zimbabwe?

Then attempt another return "home" to Siam, assuming it's still worth the ridiculous hassle ??? ( Don't forget to buy your re-entry permit before you depart for your 5th ATM withdrawal escapade )

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"I tried the GSB today at Carrefour, in Pattaya, and it was not dispensing cash. I don't know if it was out of money or just didn't recognize my card, which would be a first.....I've used it regularly in the past"

Probably just out of cash-- since they appear to have become the new "darling" of the thrifty and "value oriented" wing of the Expat community. ( probably much to their dismay )

"The AEON ATM in Carrefour, 1st floor, was out of order yesterday. (Maybe out of cash also). I think we're overwhelming their system, and it won't last much longer, IMHO"

Either that, or AEON decided that the best way to discourage those pesky Expats from doing those dastardly unpleasant foreign fund withdrawals from their precious ATMs, was to simply cease stocking them with Baht! . . . [TiT]

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"actually that is not correct ,look up my previous post on the subject ,at first i thought that i had been given a bad rate but later when the"actual" charge came through i got the going nationwide rate . this was at the Bangkok bank branch in naglua"

I couldn't find the previous post that you referenced, but if you would be willing to pin-point the specific text-- or post the Baht amount that you received as well as the debit amount that appeared in your UK account, along with the date that you did the transaction-- it would clear up the matter and avoid the possibility that over 50,000 people in this ThaiVisa forum are receiving erroneous and misleading information.

__________________________

"(granted it was over a year ago - at SCB). I made a test withdrawal of 10,000 baht from the SCB ATM and 200,000 inside the branch - both with Nationwide Visa debit card. Checked the exchange rates for each transaction on my N/W account the next day - they were almost identical"

Based on very recent reports in this thread, this is NO LONGER ACCURATE INFORMATION, especially in the case of SCB.

It appears that the fleeting whims of the Banks to fleece Farangs for whatever they think they can get at the moment, changes faster than the wind.

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"stop useing the atm go inside with your passport to withdraw ... from my uk bank there is no fee at all"

This subject has been covered many times in these threads.

If you go inside to do the withdrawal, you're being charged MUCH MORE than an ATM withdrawal because they give you a very inferior exchange rate compared to an ATM.

Please check and post the amount of Baht that you received from the bank and the amount of cash that your UK account was debited, and what date you did the transaction.

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"They're suddenly going to see they're making this extra forex money. They didn't make it before because, what farang would use their atm's"

I doubt they're making any "extra forex money" -- My guess is they're simply allowing their customers a minor added service ( much like one of the very few restaurants remaining that still offer free water )

Who in the chain of revenue charges would pay them to attract customers to withdraw funds from a foreign account where there is no charge to the recipient involved that would provide a cash source for a kickback ???

"soon They'll have a little hole by the dispensing slot so you can put your finger in and give some blood too"

Why stop there? -- If they're in it for added revenue, why not a sperm bank? -- next to the "finger in and give some blood" hole, they could provide another hole where you could insert your . . . .

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"It means some Thai customers of Aeon got a taste of dual-pricing intended for farangs and didn't like it."

Hmmmm.... Very Interesting! -- Sounds like AEON has been dragged, kicking and screaming, into a world where they're stuck offering no usury fees to anyone who happens to find one of their ATMs -- obviously, this is against their wishes.

If that's the case, I would expect them to find a way to go to the "dark side" soon.

"But I stuck it in anyway, and got 4000 baht free" -- Somehow, in a country that thrives on the sex industry, I would have expected to read "But I stuck it in anyway, and it cost me 4000" -- ( sorry, couldn't resist )

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"I first tried 16,900 and it kept on suggesting a lower amount . . . I should note I think the machine might of been out of 500 bt notes"

Awhile back, in one of these many related threads, someone claiming knowledge about the deep dark mysterious inner-workings of ATM technology-- mentioned that there are 20 and 30 "piece of paper" ATM machines. Some are capable of dispensing a max of 20 bills ( pieces of paper ) and others have a 30 bill limit.

If that's true and the ATM you battled with was out of one or more denominations of Baht (100, 500, 1000), that could explain why it did whatever it thought it could to meet your demand. ( just guessing )

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"What is the limit per withdrawal at GSB ATM's?"

GSB ATMs have been reported at both 20,000 and 30,000 Baht limits --

Apparently it depends on the individual ATM.

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"does anyone know where there is a GSB bank in Pattaya?"

GSB ( Government Savings Bank ) ATMs that are Usury-Fee Free in Pattaya:

Tutcom IT Center on Pattaya Tai Rd., just inside the front door on the right

Royal Garden -- Branch of GSB bank on 2nd road.

At The Avenue and new Central-Festival Mall, but not confirmed exactly where

A couple of other ATMs on Beach Road and Walking Street --

2nd floor of Carrefour on Pattaya Klang.

Pattaya Nua -- Just east of Pattaya City Hall, toward Sukumvit -- both a bank and 24 hour ATM --

Probably others also -- their WWW has a stylized map in Thai language that is basically useless, but indicates locations of several others --

From an earlier ThaiVisa Post:

( GSB apparently hiding in the bathroom )

I was on the 4th floor of Central Festival in Pattaya which is the floor with all the banks. I noticed a Sign for ATM down the hallway where the bathrooms where. I took a walk down to see what ATM is down there but is not in the Main Floor.

It was a GSB ATM - NO FEE

"Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not" --- "This doesn't make sense to me. Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??"

I suspect you're simply dealing with a basic TiT scenario.

You could walk into a shoe store and ask if they know of any place in the area that sells shoes. It's likely that all you'll get is that blank "Deer in the headlights" stare.

They don't have much of a clue what you're asking about or how to answer, but they want to be polite and tell you something.

[ TiT ] . . .

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"So, the Brits are getting a lower rate at all the ATM machines, to now include AEON. Must be a conspiracy of the ATMs: "Limey approaching. Reset from the Yank position." Or maybe it's the card...I bet the Nationwide Cash Card gets several satang better than the TT rate"

I certainly wasn't suggesting any conspiracy, nor was anything I said intended to have any racial or ethnic overtones. ( some of my best friends in LOS are Brits and we refer to each other by any number of unmentionable slurs )

I was simply attempting to point out that, based on the only hard data that I've see posted here so far, a 100,000 Baht transfer per month appears that it "could" result in about 700 Baht hit on the best UK card compared to a favored US card.

True, it's pure conjecture at this point, but the best data I've seen.

Probably not worth waking up Paul Revere (..."If the British march By land or sea from the town tonight, Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch of the North Church tower as a signal light. One if by land, and two if by sea; and I on the opposite shore will be, Ready to ride and spread the alarm through every Middlesex village and farm, for the country folk to be up and to arm", etc. )

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"I'd assume "the Brits" would gain as much advantage in using AEON ATMs as anyone else, in terms of avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee fever"

True, I wasn't referring to the 150 Baht usury fee-- I'm still assuming that will remain avoidable ( albeit somewhat inconvenient with respect to being able to walk up to almost any old ATM, as in the past, and expect a fair deal. )

I was referring to the various reports that the Brits don't seem to be able to get the exchange rate deal that the favored US cards receive, compared to the X-Rates reference rate. Based on past reports, that lower rate appears to hold true at AEON also. ( yes, I realize, there's still the debatable issue of the three different culprits who can affect the rate that you finally receive )

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Banks-S...99#entry2763799

"What card is in your wallet???"

You mean you actually carry a wallet in Asia??? -- NOT ME!

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"I don't see anything problematic or threatening about that. I read it as a message to AEON card holders saying don't worry, you won't get charged 150 baht if you use your card at an AEON ATM"

I hope you're right -- Based on extensive experience and being naturally suspicious and skeptical about almost anything I hear or see in print in Siam, I would naturally assume the worst.

This phrase "Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction" concerns me.

It seems that it might be saying -- you can count on your AEON issued card to be fee-free, but carefully consider the message we'll offer on the others.

At any rate, time will tell, as it always does.

It was nice to finally learn that AEON offers the best US$ rate on the best US cards. ( a pity for the Brits )

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"there was a video text notice on the AEON ATM telling their customers (people with AEON VISA and MasterCard credit cards, which is their main business) that many Thai banks have begun charging 150 baht ATM fees. But the notice told them not to worry, because they can do cash advances at the AEON ATMs without having to worry about the fee"

The above message sounds GREAT, but a friend found this cryptic message posted on the AEON website.

Does anyone have a guess as to what they're trying to communicate?

Should all of us who haven't already fallen love with the new 150 Baht usury fee, rush out and seek an AEON issued Card???

Subject: Additional Fee for Cash Advance Transaction at ATM Update : 27/04/2009

Dear AEON Credit Card Members

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

AEON cards can do cash advance transaction at AEON's cash dispenser machine with no additional fee 150 baht per transaction.

http://www.aeonthailand.com/lang/en/menu/N...News/24/odrNO/1

"I don't know what figure X-rates gives. Is it an average throughout the day, is it mid market, buying, selling, closing or what?"

It's true that the exchange rates vary throughout the day -- I've occasionally received a slightly different rate for two withdrawals that were done over a two minute time span.

SCB is not necessarily a good source of rates, but their historical rate WWW clearly shows rates varying throughout the day -- for example, on May 11, they show 14 different quotes for that day.

http://www.scb.co.th/html/exchange/bk-pvsexchange.htm

It's probably impossible to guess exactly where and how X-Rates generates their rates, but it has been observed and reported in this thread, that they VERY closely match the Interbank Exchange Rate ( IER ), which has been the best rate reported for an Expat to receive from an ATM in Thailand.

Here is X-Rates explanation - they only report once daily, around 24:00 hours ( Midnight, Thai time ):

What is the source of the data on this site ?

The exchange rates on this site are based on rates released by a few select public free sources. Depending on their availability the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank, Bank of Canada or the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

http://www.x-rates.com/faq.html

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Here's some in-depth data on the International ATM Money Transfer Game ( for committed brainiacs only )

http://flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Credi...oreign_Exchange

Where you can get hit with fees

For any given card transaction, there are three possible places where you can get hit for foreign exchange fees:

1. By the merchant/ATM-owner
   
2. By the card-issuing bank (Bank of America, Citi, Chase, etc...)
   
3. By whoever calculates the actual exchange rate underlying everything
   

"I have just withdrawn 14000 Baht from a Bank of AyudHya ATM . . . I got a rate of 54.37 Baht/£UK although their web site was only showing 54.16 Baht/£UK for TT. By comparison I checked Bangkok Bank TT rate and it is showing 54.28"

Check with X-Rates - they're reporting 54.72 for Monday and 54.75 for Tuesday

X-Rates: "2009-05-25 Monday, May 25 54.72 THB" --- "2009-05-26 Tuesday, May 26 54.7512 THB"

For US$ rates, they consistently come VERY close to matching the best rates that Expats are receiving in Thailand via Debit Cards that are not encumbered by processing and exchange fees on either end.

In your case, for 14,000 Baht, it looks like you're being hit for about 97 Baht -- If you were transferring 100,000 per month, that would amount to about a 700 Baht hit.

Obviously, some of the people popping in and out of this forum couldn't care less about being hit for a few hundred Baht per month on a consistent basis-- but if it were me, I'd at least be willing to ask a few questions in hopes of learning who belongs to the pocket that your hard-earned funds are being diverted to.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/THB/GBP/data120.html

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"went to the Bangkok bank and used my card and passport, i think they shafted me on the exchange rate, will report back"

YES! -- Please do -- that should be very enlightening for all of us -- and if my guess is correct, it will give the members of the "Teller vs. ATM gang", who wander in here occasionally, something to ponder

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"If anyone thinks they're doing better with an over the counter ATM withdrawals than those of us who are getting Interbank Exchange Rates on our ATM machine withdrawals with no ATM fees, please post up with the details....what bank, what limits, what fees, if any...and what exchange rate."

This will be an interesting experiment - especially if anyone responds who knows what they're talking about and has hard data to back it up.

Very early, in one of these numerous threads, there was an example of SCB really putting the screws to customers who were using their counter to withdraw funds as opposed to their ATMs.

The only aspect that "appeared" to be an advantage was a large per-transaction amount -- I don't recall the amount, but it was far larger than any ATM limit.

People were attracted by the very large limit and totally missed the fact that the cost of the transaction re-defined the term "usury"

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"Go to the bank and dont pay atm fee"

True, and get seriously screwed over by an inferior exchange rate that costs you much more than an ATM transaction . . .

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"STOP asking the rate that the ATM Machine gives you as this is decided by your BANK"

That's not the point and if you were paying close attention to these threads, you would know that your statement is incorrect.

If the AEON rate is DCC, that is determined locally by AEON, not by your bank. In addition, AEON is Japanese based and the others that you're using for your assumption are Thai banks.

From what's been reported, the Nationwide card is roughly comparable to E-Trade and Schwab cards from the US -- both of those US card rates closely match the X-rates value for the corresponding day.

However, the rate you got was 54.30 and the current GBP X-rate is 54.72 -- "2009-05-25 Monday, May 25 -- 54.72 THB"

That's one reason why a direct rate comparison is needed, preferably in US$

http://www.x-rates.com/d/THB/GBP/data120.html

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"Used AEON twice today with two different ATM machines and no fee."

"There is an AEON atm on the second floor of Tesco/Lotus . . . It limits you too 7,000 baht"

Any chance that someone could post the exchange rate you got from AEON?

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Minor anomaly at GSB ATM, Tutcom, Pattaya - yesterday ( Sunday May 24 )

A friend did a 20,000 Baht withdrawal -- no fee -- In the past GSB ATMs have been reported to allow up to 30,000, but not this one.

While he was chatting briefly with a friend, the ATM swallowed his E-Trade card and displayed a phone number to call.

He went to their main branch today and was told they will have the card for him to retrieve at another more distant branch on Wednesday.

Thai spoken only, he needed an interpreter.

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