TheEmperorOfTheNorth

Too bad... It was actually incredible how hard he tried NOT to be found.

Chiang Mai has been here 710 years or so. There has NEVER been an earthquake worth mentioning. If you don't make obvious mistakes in construction then I think you can safely start worrying about other things.

t seems logical to think that what happens the last few years maybe foreshocks, leading to a larger one. Besides, the ones in CM has not really relieved of built-up stresses through much quaking at all.

You're geologist and have done research about the Chiang Mai area?

Sorry, I didn't realize people in Chiang Mai are strapped for choice regarding food options.

Yeah, reducations are available. She's still looking at at least 2 years though, or 2 and a half. She was fairly lucky to get just 3 years I'd say, or didn't it involve selling drugs?

THailand is getting lenient..

I think the weather in Chiang Mai is the best in Thailand, period. Take your holiday in March.

It is irresponsible for the media to make predictions about things that they can't possibly know!

Actually it's a bit worse than that; a modicum of research would have given them the knowledge to report accurately (this type of haze lasts for weeks at worst, never months), but they declined. They are not worthy news sources. Sadly this included the BBC. Oh well. They're okay when it comes to Brit politics, but anything outside of their island and you're down to almost The Nation level.

I know there are at least 2 Burmese restaurants, but don't know the exact location.

I think one near Ton Payom market, and one in the soi that goes from Chotana Road past Rajabhat University towards Kham Tiang, and then a sub-soi of that.. I think.

Surely for 3 years old you're still in Kindergarten territory? As in 3000 baht a month range? Hudson even?

Go to Kafe nearby. It's nice, it's cheap and has excellent Thai and Northern-Thai food, and pretty good basic Western food. Cheap beer, too.

It's not very huge in Chiang Mai though. I mean the civil service goes through the motions, but it never struck me as any kind of big celebration or event.

Ok, good discussion, but I take issue with the last line of the Original Post:

It is a shame that many Thais care more about the looks of their car, than about safety.

They simply prefer large alloys and crome to ESP and other safety systems.

In Thailand only the rich drive safe cars.

CAUGH!!!!! Indeed: In Thailand only the rich drive fancy imported cars like BMW's, Mercedeses, Audi, Volvo (as one might expect).

BUT: They then still have their 3 and 5 year old kids playing around on the back seat, not even in seatbelts, never mind a child safety seat which costs a fraction of even just the alloys on their fancy imported car...

The rich are more safety conscious than Uncle Daeng & Auntie Dao the gas-delivery couple with both their kids in the side-cart of their motorcycle?? Come ON!! Look around.

[/rant]

Thank you.

No, can't be true.

...and once again, Rick suddenly realized he was in Thailand and not Switzerland...

Not to get sexual, but why is it that we gay men are happy with a cheap little NV, and the macho types have to have the latest, biggest, strongest, 4WD large engine marauder?

Well if ever there was a case of 'Asking the question = answering it' then this gotta be it.

By all means go for the NV (Envy ) Queen Cab in Raging Metallic Pink if you're gay.

I bet it's always clean and tidy inside as well.. Vacuum the mats on Saturdays.. New bottle of Strawberry Glade from the wholesale box from Makro every week.. Giggle when the gas station attendant talks about lubricants.. Perfect!

Yeah, I've seen such a case too. It happens. The only thing is perhaps that most ladyboys would prefer a more masculine person in the male role.

Oh, and if this gets confusing and someone ever needs some reassurance: Just let the person parallel park your truck. If this results in a total mess then it's safe to nail her.

Hi!

> BTS last I looked was privately owned.

An aging nationwide rail network in need of investments that are a multiple of the entire BTS network, is not the same as a mass transit system.

> Don't tell them that, now you will be labeled a neo-con...

I don't think anyone is labelling anything. I am submitting that the SRT is basically a dead man walking. The junta proposed privatising it (i.e. grabbing the profitable bits, especially some very prime real estate), but now have backtracked.

News at 11.

I find it very hard to get stuff that I like. I think most of the USA stuff is terrible, and Thai stuff is worse, still.

BBC I think make truly excellent children's programmes; frankly I suggest you buy online, or download.

Also the older stuff is nice, like for young kids you completely can't beat the Teletubbies range. *ALL* kids love the Teletubbies.

Privatising the Thai Railways is the same as abolishing the Thai Railways. (Except maybe for some tourist routes a la the Eastern & Oriental Express).

What company can honestly make a profit there.. Completely impossible. And any reduction in service and I'd say it's pretty much curtains for the SRT.

There would be a HUGE investment needed to bring the SRT into the 21st century.. I just can't see it happen. Not by the government and not by any private company.

I can't imagine Carrefour and Tesco come in here without income statistics for Chiang Mai and surrounding areas? I've looked online, but can't find any income stats. Surely some kind of census has been conducted here?

Err.. Reminder: "This is Thailand" ? Census or not, I doubt Tesco or Carrefour would even trust such a census, but do solid research themselves... I mean, have you ever seen a number followed by a percent sign in any Thai newspaper publication that WASN'T ludicrous?

So I think they have their own means of research, such as, how many motor vehicles are sold and registered in the area. That kind of information is available, and they know that their target customer owns a car. Look at the number of (new) car owners, and there's the segment that will drive that car up to your parking lot and go shop.

Also banks likely have a pretty good idea, as people tend to have bank accounts linked to a branch near to where they live. As do mobile phone companies. I'm sure when you're high up and well connected in the business world in Thailand, you can get HIGHLY accurate data, but not from the government or university studies/surveys.. Possibly banks and mobile phone companies are sitting on the best demographical data you could possibly get on Thailand.

On problem is to define Chiang Mai - it can mean only the central area, (tambon Chiang Mai?), or it can be the centre and other tambon's like Suthep or often it just means the province.

Most statistics do not define what they mean by Chiang Mai.

I'd call that a 'consideration' not a problem. Depending on why you need the demographical data you will have an idea of what area you think is relevant. Why do you think Tesco does those 'Grand Sale Lotteries' where you can win 1 Honda Jazz, 5 motorbikes and 50 Hatari electric fans? you know, where everyone and their pet puppy spends an additional 15 minutes in the store filling out 20 of those tickets.. Why do they do that? SO THAT THEY KNOW WHERE THERE CUSTOMERS LIVE. They know EXACTLY from how far people come to find their stores.

Nitpick: There's no Tambon Chiang Mai. A Tambon is a sub-district, under an Amphur (District). So there is an "Amphur Muang Chiang Mai", the city district, (and incidentally the hilltribe village WAY WAY up Doi Suthep past the summit of Doi Pui and then down again is in it ) and then there's the surrounding districts, clockwise: Mae Rim, San Sai, Sankamphaeng, Saraphee, Hang Dong (and possibly Sanpatong too). Chiang Mai City has grown so much that people living in housing estates that are technically in Hang Dong or San Sai feel very much like they live in the city of Chiang Mai. Formerly I'd be tempted to call 'everything inside the Third Ring' to be Chiang Mai city.. but then you miss huge estates like Manthana, Koolpunt 9 and LOADS more that are just outside it. But then if you do include those, then you're exactly at Hang Dong or Mae Rim or Saraphee proper. Eventually those will be swallowed up into "the city" just like Ban Jed Yod and all those before it.

Let's just say that Chiang Mai city is going to be VERY BIG very soon. Million people, anyone? When?

But are they really responsible?

If I hire a legitimate construction firm to build my house and one of their workers is injured due to lax safety standards or whatever by the construction firm, am I ethically or morally responsible for that injury? Should I feel compelled to step in at personal expense if the company that is legally and morally responsible fails to fulfill their obligations?

If someone got hurt building my house then yes I would feel enough responsibility to make sure the matter is handled in the most humane, dignified and speedy manner. If I would lean on the contractor to make sure he fulfills his commitments or step in myself with finanical aid would depend on the status of the contractor: if it's a proper company then yes I'd lean on them. If it's just Uncle Joe's Building around the corner who's building something for me cheap-cheap then I'd realize the ball's in my court on this one.

Actually, thinking about this more, I've made a mental note that if Uncle Joe and his Burmese Band are going to build something for me, I'll probably go out to Global House for the most basic safety equipment like helmets and dust masks. Totally minor investment compared to the cost of building something. Safety First!

I agree Coke zero tastes the most like regular coke..

Indeed add some lime, and Sang Som. Dees ees not Barbados mon!!

Great price for new transportation, however you may find the drop in value is pretty insane when you want to sell it or trade it in. Also, these are note the safest vehicles in the world, to put it mildly. Add 100K or so and you're in 'proper truck' territory that will keep its value like gold.

Then some small issues I have with Thanh-BKK's post:

3.0 4WD is never more fuel efficient than a plane jane 2.5 liter truck. The most fuel efficient at the moment is probably the Isuzu 2.5 iTeq common rail engine. Also consider that the increased ride height, big tyres, 4WD system weight and other Off Road regalia that people are so fond of will also increase drag and weight, and thus lower fuel efficiency.

I'll accept that Nissan Navarra has highest torque, though I think the jury is still out on when this torque is exactly available? If it's only available in a narrow (and pretty high) rev range, then it sucks for hauling stuff or going off-road.

As for wanting green plates on a truck instead of car-plates for 4-door... I'm not sure green plates is an advantage. Sure there's lower road tax, but then the insurance is higher. Also the maximum speed for trucks is actually lower than for passenger cars. (yes I know it doesn't make sense, because essentially the exact same vehicle with same engine, brakes and even higher weight is now officially a passenger car. Anyway, for 4 door trucks you can never get green plates, but some people go through the trouble of putting some (temporary) benches in the back and registering it on blue plates, like a minivan. I don't see the advantage to that either.

Look at my avatar then.I am 30's. Although I am not a LB right now, I was a lb 17 years ago.

I still have a secure job as a doctor. (going to take a genetic engineering course soon)

Hope my post elaborates your curiousity.

Most definitely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just imagine what genetic engineering could do... Soon we may finally break free from the limitations of having just three genders.

I quit reading Thai newspapers because of the blatant censorship since the coup, but sometimes you find yourself on an airplane with nothing else to read other than TG's in-flight drivel, so then you grab a Bangkok Post.. Did anyone read this sad story:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/281007_Perspect...007_pers001.php

Completely absent in this story is the company that's getting the building built in the first place, the Shangri-La hotel chain. Given that the contractor as well as the Thai labour department seem to be engaged in a competitioin on who can be the most careless and irresponsible, there's one of the biggest multinational hotel chains in the world who I'm sure could spare a couple baht to do the responsible thing for one of the people actually building their fancy hotel rooms that they'll be renting out at thousands of baht a night.

You know what... That Makes me Mad.

In case the story disappears from the site I include it here in full:

---

FAILED SAFETY NET

The exploitation of a Burmese migrant worker involved in a precedent-setting appeal for compensation did not end when she became an accident victim, writes ERIKA FRY from Chiang Mai

Thirty-six-year-old construction worker Nang Noom has spent her last 11 months in a Chiang Mai hospital bed. On bad days, she thinks about suicide; on the slightly better ones, she thinks of all the places to which she can no longer walk.

If she looks forward to anything, it's to the infrequent visits of her husband Sai Boon, who she fears will become unfaithful, and to whom she fears she is a burden.

She is paralysed - stranded miles away from her home and family in Burma's Shan state and stuck at the centre of a worker's compensation case that even with the backing of national and international law and a corps of human rights workers battling on her behalf - has, in its 11 months, moved almost nowhere.

She finally got a wheelchair, last month. It was a hand-me-down from a former Thai hospital patient; a donation which has provided Nang Noom with the mobility her employer, the Social Security Office (SSO), and the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security - citing her lack of proper passport at the request - would not.

Nang Noom was severely injured - almost killed - last December when she was struck by a piece of a 300-kilogramme mould that fell from the 12th floor of the Shangri-la Hotel she was helping to construct.

She doesn't remember anything about the day of the accident, only waking up two months later in a hospital ward and hearing doctors talk about her spinal injuries, and how she could no longer walk. The blow also left her with broken bones, internal bleeding, and throat damage that prevented her, for two months, from speaking.

Migrants make up the majority of the workforce at a number of Thailand's construction sites.

She had been working at the Chiang Mai construction site since June, hired to move materials and collect scrap metal around the site for 130 baht a day, 20 baht less than the city's minimum wage.

Though she found construction work physically difficult, and much tougher than the domestic work she had done for the first three years after migrating from Burma, she had entered the industry "out of love," wishing to work alongside her husband.

During her time there, she witnessed accidents involving cranes, saw a worker fall from scaffolding, and watched many others step on nails; but she didn't worry about her own safety.

She had purchased boots and gloves - the protective equipment few employers supply and few of the migrant workers can afford. "I was careful, I didn't think it could happen to me."

Nang Noom is one of 200,000 registered Burmese migrants in Thailand, and each year since 2004, she had paid the associated costs of such status - 1,900 baht for a work permit and the 1,900 baht that entitled her to health care under the government scheme.

The greater share of Thailand's estimated 2 million migrant workers are unregistered (and excluded from the government health scheme); largely because there has not been a registration mechanism open to Burmese migrants since 2004, but also because the system is confusing and extremely restrictive for workers.

Nang Noom, in her hospital room in Chiang Mai.

While Cambodia and Laos have struck agreements with Thailand to formalise the migrant labour system, Burma has been uncooperative in working to establish a similar process.

Yet, while Nang Noom is registered - fees paid, fingerprints taken, data entered into the Ministry of Interior's system - her 11-month battle for disability compensation has proven that, even with that status, she is not protected from discrimination, nor the obfuscation and incompetence of government bureaucracy.

Immediately after her accident, her employer claimed he would take care of all costs until she had recovered and returned to work. He also owed Nang Noom and Sai Boon several weeks of unpaid wages, which he agreed to pay.

When he still had not made good on his word weeks later, Sai Boon approached the employer who this time offered to give the couple 30,000 baht, and 10,000 baht for transport, if they went back to Burma.

As this was neither particularly fair nor feasible, Sai Boon made his first of many trips to the Chiang Mai Social Security Office for assistance.

Begrudging compensation

Bamboo scaffolding at an apartment complex being built near Bangkok. Sometimes the scaffolding snaps, or sometimes the workers slip.

Thai labour law (along with obligations under a number of constitutional, regional, and international documents) guarantees all workers, regardless of nationality, compensation for work-related accidents and disability. The mechanism for this is the Workmen's Compensation Fund (WCF), which is managed by the SSO and to which all employers in Thailand must contribute a risk-based premium. The fund is intended as a system of insurance for both workers and employers - a safety net should occupational calamity strike.

A spokesman for Surin Jiravisit, secretary-general of the SSO, echoed this compensation-for-all interpretation as well when he said in a phone interview earlier this week, "that all people who are working are entitled to the WCF scheme. If someone is injured at work, there is an obligation to look after that worker."

Or so it seemed. "Of course they must be legal," he added with a chuckle (to be fair, maybe a nervous one). He explained that if they are "illegal", the employer - and not the WCF - has duty to look after them. The SSO has a role only in that it "can force the employer to pay the worker."

This explanation helps to explain why, in the 11 months since the accident, Nang Noom has received 17,260 baht - compensation that has been paid by her employer, not the WCF - slowly, begrudgingly, and only after being mandated, also slowly and begrudgingly, by the SSO (the first installment was ordered 8 months after her accident).

It seems that while Nang Noom has been battling for this compensation, the SSO and Nang Noom's employer have been battling about which of them should not have to pay it.

It is this dispute - which oddly is being contested now, only for the first time (see related article) - over who should be responsible for paying migrants compensation when they are injured or killed at work, that lies at the heart of Nang Noom's case.

SSO says, in this case at least, they are not, and they have given a range of flimsy reasons as to why. These justifications - outlined at a meeting regarding Nang Noom's appeal of the SSO's decision, earlier last week - have run from Nang Noom's lack of proper travelling document (which is equated with illegal entry into Thailand) to the fact that Nang Noom's employer had not paid the required premium to the WCF (which SSO is nonetheless, supposed to enforce) to the difficulty involved in identifying and documenting Burmese workers, because they have no last names.

At the meeting, SSO also clarified that in "illegal", they count both registered and unregistered migrants that lack "nationality verification", or a proper travelling document, like a passport.

Because of the situation in neighbouring countries - particularly Burma - obtaining such documents is a near impossibility and the majority of Thailand's migrant workforce, in SSO's eyes, is "illegal".

Somchai Homlaor, secretary-general of the Human Rights and Development Foundation, finds such semantics and excuses "ridiculous".

"200,000 Burmese migrant workers are registered with the Ministry of Interior. The Ministry of Labour issued them a work permit card. So why does the government not accept this? Can they not trust their own information system? Why did they issue an ID card? There is more than one way to identify a person."

He adds that such policy "is very discriminatory towards the country's Burmese migrants," adding that another country's politics shouldn't relate to the way Thailand treats its workforce.

It should be noted that before the SSO settled on this position, it had given those involved with Nang Noom's case 6 different interpretations of the WCF policy (both favourable and unfavourable to Nang Noom) and engaged in considerable foot dragging.

SSO spent four months investigating the validity of Nang Noom's "disability"; a process SSO made infinitely more complicated in its insistence to correspond only with Nang Noom (as opposed to hospital workers or her lawyer) via standard post.

Yet, while the SSO cleared itself of its own obligations, in passive-aggressive consolation to Nang Noom, it also ruled that she was entitled to 15 more years of compensation, at 60% her daily wage (the same that she would receive from the WCF) - it's just the employer would have to pay it.

Nang Noom's employer paid her less than minimum wage - rarely in a timely fashion. He had failed to contribute to the WCF and to report Nang Noom's accident - all violations of SSO's own labour laws.

Yet, when it came to ordering him to compensate Nang Noom, SSO simply ordered him to compensate her, in honour code fashion, with no formal monitoring or follow-up system to enforce it. Stranger still, the SSO refused to inform Nang Noom or those working on her behalf, as to when and for how much she would be compensated, saying that information was between the SSO and employer.

Only when pressured, was this information revealed to her - and with it, the discovery that the employer had not in fact compensated Nang Noom to the extent ordered by the SSO.

Somchai finds SSO's employer-compensates solution as flawed as the reasoning that underlies it. "They say they can order employers to pay, but it's hard to enforce and not secure."

Even with honest employers, he says the solution is impractical because of the basic nature of the migrant worker.

"To truly secure migrant workers that have been in accidents fair compensation, they should be getting it from the WCF."

More than anything, he argues the matter should be handled this way, as a simple matter of human rights.

"Migrant workers have become victims of exploitation," and the laws meant to protect them go "unenforced because of prejudice, discrimination and corruption," he says.

Waiting on a decision

If Nang Noom's case has revealed gaps in national policy, it has more strikingly illuminated the lack of humanity she has been shown through the ordeal.

Even after having had her life shattered through hard labour - for a hotel that come Dec 2007, will generate considerable income for the country - she has been treated as a problem for her employer, and a burden to the SSO. The exploitation Nang Noom endured as one of Thailand's 2 million migrant workers did not end when she became an accident victim.

"There are obligations under international and Asean agreements, as well as Thai law. We will fight on with many cases, including that of Nang Noom, until the government admits that migrants fall under the Workmen's Compensation Act," vows Somchai.

The WCF Appeals Committee has said it will finalise its review of the case and announce its final decision as to whether Nang Noom has rights to access the WCF next month.

If she's denied those rights Somchai and other case workers say they'll be ready to take the issue to court and fight for what should be a precedent-setting case with regards to migrant rights.

Unfortunately for Nang Noom, that would also mean more time, which is something, as the hospital pressures her to move out and the days on her work permit run down, she doesn't necessarily have (if that were to happen, and she had to go back to Burma, it's even less likely she could count on SSO-ordered compensation coming from her employer).

For now, though, she'll wait for November, trying to forget the uncertainty of the future as she learns to climb in and out of her new wheelchair.

This is the first of a series on occupational safety for migrant workers.

How much for the box at Makro?

I think Makro are opening a second branch near to where I am, so may finally get around to registering for their @U#{:content:}amp;I(*Y^@ card. I always considered the way Makro do business incredibly backward, but hey, if I can save 50 satang on a bottle...