jfchandler

I haven't had to use the OTC (over the counter) approach for withdrawals as yet, because there are still fee-free ATM options....

But about OTC, a couple of questions did occur to me that I don't recall seeing addressed here:

1. If a person wants to do that using their foreign debit card, do they need to have a personal bank account with the bank where they are doing the transaction, or is it just like using a currency exchange booth, where they don't care whether you bank with that bank or not???

2. And, if you do do the OTC withdrawal transaction at a Thai bank where you do have an account using your foreign account/debit card, is there any practical difference (rates or fees, if any) between asking them to just hand you the cash vs. asking them to move in into your account with them?

I have a card issued by a US bank, but found I cannot use it for shopping online because of my Thai address -- many US-based online shopping sites won't accept foreign addresses.

Anyone else run into this and how did you remedy it?

Yes, it's a pretty common thing. The easy solution is, even though you and I live here, to maintain a U.S. mailing and/or mail forwarding address, and use that for your credit card address of record. Then, whatever you purchase online is shipped there (or if the seller allows it, directly here to LOS). If the seller won't ship to Thailand, then you ship it to your U.S. address. Then either your friends/family or the mail forwarding company you've hired send it onward to Thailand.

I have friends and relations in the U.S., but I don't want to burden them with my activities and purchases ordered from here. So I pay a monthly fee to a mail forwarding company that gives me a legitimate U.S. mailing address, allows me to manage the mail and packages they receive for me online, and then forwards the mail to me monthly or as often as I direct -- all from the keyboard of my computer via the Internet.

Surfrider, there are two answers to the question you pose below...

1. To open any new U.S. bank account, it's going to be easier, most of the time, for the customer to have access to some kind of U.S. mailing address to use as your address of record (though not all banks require that). If you or others don't have or use a U.S. mailing address, there are any number of ways to get one while still living here in LOS. And some banks (though I'm not sure how many) apparently will also accept foreign addresses for U.S. citizens.

2. If the customer does have a U.S. address, then the only issue is does the bank involved open its new accounts to everyone, or just to people in their area/state. Or in the case of credit unions, live in some area or belong to some eligible employer or community group.

If you look at the web site I cited above for rewards checking accounts, you will find there is one list/web page of accounts that are available to anyone "living" (meaning, having a U.S. address) in any state. Then, there are separate lists of other banks and accounts that limit new accounts to people who "live" in their local area/state.

The bottom line is, all the accounts I cited in prior posts in this Thai Visa thread are available to anyone with a U.S. address in any state. And the broader list on nationwide accounts there on the web site for rewards checking accounts that I cited lists dozens of available banks and accounts, more than enough to meet anyone's individual needs.

Rather than pulling one quote out of the narrative summary, you might consider looking at the lists of actual banks and accounts that are available, both nationwide and state by state. The web site includes, for each entry, links to the bank or credit union's home page and to the web site author's very good reviews and descriptions of the details of those accounts.

I'm certainly your "average, wayward Expat living half-way around the other side of the planet (BKK in my case)," and I've had absolutely no problem in finding and opening more than enough U.S. bank accounts to meet my needs both for high interest rates and avoiding ATM fees.

jfchandler, Thanks for the additional information.

This comment is from the high-yield account website:

"High yield reward checking accounts are mostly being offered by small banks and credit unions which restrict account opening to local residents."

Is there some way that your average wayward Expat living half-way around the other side of the planet can take advantage of these benefits? -- or, am I missing something?

You mean the fresh clam markets around there, James???

I just purchased a one-way air ticket from Los Angeles to BKK this coming June...

I compared my usual airline, EVA, with Thai Air for the same flight on the same days...

Best available price for the one-way economy ticket from the airlines' web sites, including all taxes and fees:

EVA: $691 (regular economy) on Boeing 777, one stop in Taipei

Thai Air: $986 (for premium economy, the only economy available) on Airbus 340-500, nonstop

Hard to see or find any meaningful price change or improvement in Thai's ticket pricing relative to competitors.

Where I live in lower Sukhumvit, there are a few food shops on my soi and those nearby selling prepared Thai foods, as well as some mobile stands, particularly at night, selling fruits and vegetables and some other things... (And a fair number of vendors along Sukhumit Road, which I tend to avoid due to the dust/pollution issues for food there).

But, that's nothing compared to what you'll find in some more Thai neighborhoods around BKK. Just on a single street or section of a soi, you can find dozens and dozens of different food shops and stands lined end to end - providing a virtual paradise of food eating (mostly to-go) and shopping where almost anything can be had for cheap prices.

Where are your favorite sois and destinations for finding these kinds of places... I'd really like to find a similar area closer to home around Sukhumvit.

I'll nominate two areas/sois that fit my description above....

One is Phahon Yothin Soi 1, just below/south from Phya Thai II Hospital and the Sanam Pao BTS station. There's a Tops Supermarket hidden nearby there back off the main street. But on Soi 1, which you access off the main road on the west side of the street (same side as the hospital), there's everything conceivable to be found there in terms of raw and cooked/prepared foods. This soi is simply amazing for food.

Another is near the intersection of Klong Tan Road and Phattanakarn Road as you head up from Phra Kanong. In that locale, the food places are more concentrated along the main Klong Tan Road, although there's also a fresh food area on a side soi there. This area seems to be more oriented toward prepared foods, whereas Phahon Yothin Soi 1 is a pretty strong mix of prepared and fresh/raw/uncooked foods.

Pretty much every residential soi has some food shops and stands on hand. So I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about places that are haven/heavens for food and eating where dozens of places are all packed together in one locale.... Where do you like???

Surfrider, all the info I posted above is absolutely current, but you're mixing two different, separate pieces of information I've said..

First... you mention my comment about preferring bank accounts that pay 4-5% interest. I do, and there are still many FDIC-insured accounts known as "rewards checking" that are paying those rates today, and in many cases include a feature of reimbursing ATM fees either nationwide or worldwide. The caveat is....to get that interest, you need to use that account and its debit card to make anywhere from 10 to 15 debit purchases of any amount per month. You don't pay any fee or anything extra for those, so it's really just using your debit card for everyday expenses like grocery shopping and such.

If you're not familiar with those kinds of accounts, here is a web site where you can learn all about them and see the rates and details about dozens of these kinds of accounts. They're all from regular U.S. banks that are FDIC insured (though the offering banks won't be the biggie ones like BofA and CitiBank that have lost fortunes...)

Second and separately, in response to the advent of the 150 baht fee here, I posted the details above about various accounts that reimburse ATM fees... Some of those, like First Arkansas Bank and Trust, are rewards accounts with high interest AND reimburse ATM fees... Some like the Schwab accounts don't pay high interest, aren't "rewards" accounts, but DO reimburse ATM fees worldwide. I posted web links to all those accounts above.

In both cases, all the info I've posted and the accounts I've mentioned are accurate and current... In my case, I want to keep, and do keep, larger non-CD balance in a rewards account that pays 4-5% interest, and I use that account for routine debit card purchases. Then separately, I'll keep a different account that fully reimburses ATM fees but keep a low balance in that account. That's the one I'll use for routine ATM cash withdrawals.

Until recently, I cared only about the interest rates of my accounts. Now, with the advent of the 150 baht ATM fee, I'm shifting a bit more focus to make sure I also have sufficient accounts that fully reimburse all ATM fees worldwide. It's really no problem, since you can do both and just keep different accounts and use them for different purposes.

Surfrider and everyone else, there are many U.S. banks that have accounts that will enable you to avoid the 150 baht fee here (avoid=be fully reimbursed for it by your U.S. bank) in the event no-fee Thai options like Kasikorn and Ayudhya disappear at some point.

Although the big, major U.S. banks typically won't do it, many smaller and regional banks, credit unions and even brokerages want your banking business and thus offer regular checking and savings accounts that do various of the following:

--reimburse all ATM fees worldwide without limit.

--reimburse ATM fees worldwide up to $XX per month (typically $25 or $30).

--reimburse ATM fees in the U.S. in full or part, but end up doing the same for foreign transactions even though their policy doesn't say they do so.

If you're motivated to find them, and search the Internet through banking resources, they're out there to be had, regular banks and credit unions, fully federally insured, nothing speculative or shakey...

I posted the details of some of these kinds of accounts earlier in this thread on page nine.

But for those who have forgotten or are new to this topic, here's the link to the prior post. Those are just a sampling, there are many more to be had.

PS - It would be helpful to know...for those folks who have already paid the 150 baht ATM fee here (because I haven't), when you look at your online banking account, is the fee showing up as a separate line item/fee, or is it simply being rolled into the total of your withdrawal.

That's an important consideration because, generally speaking, it's much easier for the U.S. banks and accounts I've described above to automatically reimburse the fee when it's handled as a separate fee item. When it's rolled into your total withdrawal without being broken out as a separate item, their systems don't necessarily know there's a fee there. In those cases, often, you need/have to save your ATM receipt showing the fee and send it/them to your home bank, which can be a bit of a hassle and expense. Hopefully, the Thai banks that are charging the fee are billing it as a separate item from your regular ATM withdrawals.

"If Kasikorn and the other holdouts thus far do eventually impose the 150 baht fee, then I'll limit my ATM use here to U.S. cards that fully reimburse the fee and, if possible, cover the 1% VISA/MC cut as well."

If you locate such a bank, I hope you'll let all of us know the name.

I researched that issue thoroughly over four years ago when I selected E-Trade because they promised no Exchange, Transfer, or Service fees and they have kept that promise up until now. I have never paid even one Baht to transfer money from the U.S. to Siam in almost 5 years.

Earlier in this thread I posted where E-Trade has specifically said that they will not cover the new confiscatory Thai fee.

I'm not aware of any U.S. bank that would cover the new fee, but I'm always willing to learn of miracles

As of Sunday, Kasikorn and Ayudhya were still fee-free... Someone else needs to report in re Gov. Savings Bank, or any other Thai banks that have NOT begun charging 150 baht per.

BKK Bank, Siam Commercial and Krung Thai have begun charging the fee, and thus are now on my (and hopefully your) "don't patronize" list, at least as far as their ATMs are concerned.

Re Kasikorn, I don't know if they are just slow, or they've made a conscious decision not to impose the 150 baht fee. My guess is it's the former, but I'm hoping it's the latter reason.

Nonetheless, I had never used a Kasikorn Bank or their ATMs before this whole situation arose, although I knew they already had a good reputation as being farang-friendly when it came to opening new accounts.

If time passes and they don't implement the fee, I would plan on migrating my banking business away from BKK and SCB, and to Kasikorn. They have good accounts, many branch locations and ATMs, and also offer their special debit card for making online purchases safely.

In my case, if Kasikorn doesn't implement the fee, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back in getting me to dump BKK and SCB in favor of Kasikorn for my future banking here.

If Kasikorn and the other holdouts thus far do eventually impose the 150 baht fee, then I'll limit my ATM use here to U.S. cards that fully reimburse the fee and, if possible, cover the 1% VISA/MC cut as well.

I don't pay ATM fees in the U.S., and I have no intention of paying them in Thailand.

One other important point: Historically, for those old enough to remember, when ATMs were introduced in the U.S., banks pushed customers to start using them INSTEAD of branch transactions, because presumably ATMs are much cheaper in handling the transactions they do than a bank teller performing the same transaction in branch.

So, for me, it's pretty ironic now, in the midst of the banking meltdown worldwide (though not so much in Thailand) for the banks to come along and start charging extortionate fees for ATM use. Every time you the customer uses an ATM to do something instead of going into the branch to deal with a teller, you are SAVING the bank money, not costing them.

In the years I've lived here, about the only time I've gone into bank branches is to set up and open new accounts. Everything after that has been ATMs for deposits, withdrawals, etc etc... If the Thai banks really want to push their foreign customers into avoiding ATMs, they're shooting themselves in the foot cost-wise.

Tawandang German Brewery has two locations, one in Rama III and the other in Ram Intra...

Here's their web site....

And here's a screen shot of their locations and contact info....

What's the info with the Country place you mention in Rangsit???

By the way, the other night passing by there, I noticed that the Absolute 7 Pub seems to have disappeared, as I believe has been lately reported elsewhere on TV.

Is the Bangkok Beat place mentioned above the new venue in Absolute 7's old space??? Or Bangkok Beat is in a different location?

Passing by the other night, it looked like the old Absolute 7 space was virtually empty.

I too like Tawandang on Rama III.... Thai folks refer to it as "Long Beer Yerman" (German pronounced with a Y sound).

Was there again last night for dinner, drinks and the show. Noticed that they're advertising at present a special 20% off all food and drinks on Sundays and Mondays (presumably their slower days).

They also offer a one-year renewable member card (for purchase) that offers a 10% discount on food purchases.

I think this location is a bit more middle class (and up)-oriented, with lots of expensive cars filling their parking lot. Renditions of the Village People's "YMCA" and Barry Manilow's "Copacabana" are regular features of the evening, but it's all done in fun alongside various styles of Thai music.

They brew their own beers -- pilsner, wheat and dark -- that run 250 baht for litre pitchers and similarly/proportionately priced for 2 and 3 litre beer towers.

But for a more native/down to earth experience, the Country Tawandang and Isan Tawandang locations opposite each other on Soi Pattanakarn in the Klong Tan area are great fun.

I've had a different experience there...

I believe, they don't even open much before 8 pm... On most nights, at 9 pm there, it's almost empty even when their live band and/singers are playing at that hour...

By 10 pm and later, the tables start to fill in.... I've never had any problem getting a good table there between 9 and 10 pm, and even after sometimes.

In my experience, they do have brief breaks in the live band and/or singers throughout the evening, and they play canned music during those periods. But those intermissions tend to be pretty brief, less than a half hour one or two times per night.

James, my map shows Suk Soi 17 as a little short street just before you get to/bordering the Robinson's Store and Westin Hotel, with Soi 19 and City Lodge on the opposite side toward Asoke...

So, assuming the max dispensed by a BB ATM of 25000, if my free E*Trade ATM card still cost me 150bt per transaction, this would be a cost of .6% (150/25000). But my sending $8000 via ACH/EFT only cost .3% -- and (because the fees are fixed), I would only pay .2% to send $12,000.

Now, if E*Trade -- and other no-fee ATM cards -- begin to reimburse the 150bt, yeah, they're the best deal. Until then, ACH/EFT wins (with the exception of taking your E*Trade ATM to Kasikorn, at least so far).

Jim, I agree with your point for LARGE amount transfers. Your example above is of sending $8,000 U.S. in a single ACH transaction, which is equal to about 280,000 baht. I think, most people aren't moving that kind of money once a month or a couple times per month for living expenses.

My point is, when the transaction amount involved goes down and/or you start talking about multiple transactions, ATMs become more attractive, especially if you have a no fees option available.

Also, to be clear, there are numerous U.S. bank accounts/cards (not just E-Trade) that reimburse ATM operator fees, even those charged in foreign countries. I posted mention and links to some of them earlier in this thread.

Right now, I believe, everyone here in LOS still has the option of doing ATM fee-free withdrawals thru Kasikorn Bank, Bank of Ayudhya and some others.... (What's the latest list on fee-free banks, folks?)

But even if those banks eventually start charging the 150 baht fee on the Thailand end, there are U.S. banks/accounts that will still reimburse those 100%, such as the Charles Schwab high yield savings and checking accounts, among others. Schwab also supposedly does not pass along the 1% foreign exchange fee.

As for E-Trade and their ATM card, I don't know. Langsuan Man reported above using their ATM card and getting no ATM fee and no 1% charge. But E-Trade's stated policy is NOT to reimburse international ATM charges, and another poster above contacted E-Trade customer service by email and was told they wouldn't reimburse the 150 baht ATM fee as charged by some banks here. So I can't reconcile those disparate accounts.

Well, my USAA limit for ACH is initially set up for a $5000/day max. A simple phone call raised this to $30,000 -- and subsequent ACHs to my other US bank, for amounts around $15000, were flawless. Can't imagine why this wouldn't work for Bangkok Bank.

The question I raised there was not really about ACH transfer limits set by individual U.S. banks. It was more about the supposed $10,000 amount threshold that triggers some kind of U.S. government review, and in the past, often led to people's online links for the U.S. bank-Bangkok Bank ACH transfers to be frozen or deleted, particularly for Bank of America customers.

I was trying to see if anyone has tried that approach lately sending an amount over $10,000, and did it go smoothly or did they encounter any problems? But I haven't seen anyone mention lately that they've used the ACH method to send more than $10,000 here via BKK Bank.

Although I'd certainly want to avoid that HSBC fee, I'm curious to see if Thai ATMs/banks who charge the 150 baht fee will exempt my U.S. HSBC card from it.... Same question for foreign CitiBank cardholders here.

Absolutely no reason why they should - unless they feel sorry for you, and what are the chances of that? Citibank has some tenuous link between their Thai operation and the local mafia banking association which some people hope may exempt them, but I don't think it will apply to Citibank's non-Thai-issued cards. TIT though, only time and trials will tell.

The "reason", Phaethon, was that both CitiBank and HSBC were listed as being member banks of the "ATM Pool", whose cards were NOT supposed to be charged the new 150 baht fee..., according to the Thai Banks Assn. policy announcement.

Re CitiBank, as LanguanMan has reported above, that approach does not work with a U.S. based CitiBank card, though it may well work with a Thai issued card. Work = avoid the 150 baht per withdrawal fee.

I'm still waiting to hear (or try myself) if the U.S.-based HSBC cards either do or don't get hit with the 150 baht fee. I'm guessing they will get the fee, but..you never know until you try. Unfortunately, since HSBC pays such crappy interest rates lately, I keep no funds in my HSBC account to try!!!!

I can go into a bank and get my cash with my card and my passport???

I have a cash card (type maestro)!

Yes, you can (make a withdrawal from your foreign bank account using that account's ATM card inside a Thai bank), at least at most Thai bank companies. Think of it like making an ATM withdrawal but instead of using the machine, you're doing it thru the bank clerk at the counter.

However, from what various users here have reported, different Thai banks have different withdrawal limits for using that approach, with Siam Commercial seemingly having among the highest limits per withdrawal. And likewise, reports indicate different Thai banks also have varying fees (from none to various amounts) for doing this.

We're talking here about the approach of doing an ACH online funds transfer from a U.S. bank account to Bangkok Bank using their New York ACH routing number (for non U.S. folks, that is kind of like a SWIFT number for Europe, I believe). The funds go to BKK Bank's New York branch, and then automatically are credited to your BKK Bank account here in Thailand.

(The BKK Bank account number you use in making the transfer includes your BKK branch info here, so the BKK Bank folks here know exactly where to send it to once the funds arrive from New York.)

In the past, particularly with BofA, if people tried to use that method using larger dollar amounts, either above $5K or $10K, they often had their online banking account link to BKK Bank frozen or deleted in the U.S.

The general explanation people received, although banks were reluctant to explain why what was happening was happening, was that transfer amounts over a certain limit were automatically getting flagged for Patriot Act/anti-money laundering review. Again, to be clear, we're talking about ACH transfers to Thailand here... NOT regular wire transfers.

Same here... K Bank ATM withdrawal in BKK on late Friday afternoon... no 150 baht fee. Used U.S. Visa logo debit card.

Separately, Jim, thanks for the reminder about the U.S. bank to BKK Bank New York ACH approach. It's interesting and good to know you were able to move $8,000 U.S. economically, without having your U.S. account link frozen as had happened in the past with crappy BofA. Also, that that amount didn't seem to generate any kind of Patriot Act/money laundering hassle.

However, various "smart money" approaches to using ATM cards here in Thailand still are a more economical option for now for routine, day to day living expenses, as long as we have viable alternatives that allow us to avoid the 150 baht fee, or for that matter, any fee at either the U.S. or Thai end.

I wonder, provided one's local U.S. bank's ACH limits allow it (different banks set different daily and monthly limits on allowed ACH transfers), if an ACH to BKK Bank above the $10,000 threshold would trigger any kind of hassles? For larger, single amount transfers, it definitely is the best way to go. I just don't know how large larger can get....

1) Agree: Wire transfers are the way to go. Incentive has been created to use them now. Previously it wasn't always the case for smaller amounts

That view above is probably not true for most people.

In most cases, the originating bank in your home country outside Thailand is going to charge an international wire transfer fee. In the U.S. those typically range between $25 (on the very low end) to more often $40/$45 and even sometimes $60 per wire, depending on the U.S. bank you use. (There are exceptions, such as some accounts that have free wires or one free wire per month, but those aren't the norm). Then the receiving Thai bank, I believe, typically charges a much more modest fee of a couple hundred baht.

Given that the current 150 baht ATM fee works out to about $4.25 U.S., you'd have to make anywhere from more than five to eight ATM transactions (at 20,000 to 30,000 baht per as the maximum) before the combined ATM fees would exceed the fee for one wire transfer. I'm leaving some wiggle room there because wires don't get hit with the 1% VISA/MC fee for foreign exchange.

I think it's likely that some Thai banks will NOT charge the ATM fee for some time, looking to Kasikorn as an example. So that route continuing to use your ATM at such banks ATMs would be the first choice.

Then, if that option fails (all the Thai banks implement the fees), the second choice would be the ATM card withdrawal at the bank counter approach (which has no fees, by all accounts, at present).

And then, if that options becomes unavailable or uneconomical, then other approaches may be available, such as using a CitiBank or HSBC ATM card here, since those banks are member of the "ATM Pool" and their cards are not supposed to be assessed the new 150 baht fee.

If all those things fail, then, wire transfers could become the common approach. But right now and for the immediate future, wires would only be the preferred approach if someone needs to move very large amounts of money in a single transaction or short period of time (or you're one of those folks who has an account that provides fee or very low cost international wires).

I have an U.S. based-HSBC ATM card. I've never much used it here for withdrawals, because U.S. HSBC has long had a 2 or 3% foreign exchange fee they assess. Although I'd certainly want to avoid that HSBC fee, I'm curious to see if Thai ATMs/banks who charge the 150 baht fee will exempt my U.S. HSBC card from it.... Same question for foreign CitiBank cardholders here. Anyone tried it yet with a Thai bank that's begun charging the 150 baht fee???

If you are charged by your own bank you should not be charged by the Thai bank.

However if you are not charged by your own bank you may well be charged by the Thai bank

Sorry, but that's an ill-informed statement above...

Banks in different countries set their own fees based on their corporate policies and what the banking laws in that nation will allow. U.S. banks don't set or charge their ATM fees based on what banks in Thailand do or don't do. And Thai banks don't charge or not charge fees to customers depending on what fees their foreign customers do or don't incur at home.

Right now, for the moment, the advice is simple. No matter what country you're from or what bank card you're using at the ATM in Thailand, use a Thai bank that's yet to begin charging the 150 baht fees... such as Kasikorn or Ayudhya at present.

I also doubt traveler's cheques will be much affected by this. Many customers pay a fee to buy traveler's cheques in their home country, except some folks like AAA (Automobile Club) members who get them for free. But even for those folks (and everyone else who pays a fee to buy the cheques), they also pay a handling fee for each traveler's cheque they exchange here. The fee here is charged per cheque. So if you are using them, it's best to go with fewer, larger denomination traveler's cheques in order to minimize your bank fees. Exchanging them also usually requires showing your passport, which makes the process less convenient for folks who don't routinely carry their passport around with them.

I havent seen anyone report as yet that BKKB has begun with thew 150 fee... So they and K are still clear...

MKAsok, thanks very much... I live near Soi 19... I'll go have a look someday soon...

Same to you T.S.... likewise, I'll go have another look on Soi 11 next week... Last time there, I had a heat stroked GF and so we weren't in the mood for meandering about...

I am with Thithi on this one, I like my lesbians cute and cuddly. No time for every Tom Dick or Harry.

I agree with you James... I don't care for Toms who are Harry or have Dicks... Give me cute, cuddly and shaven any day...