jfchandler

"Menial" jobs of the kind many "Westerners" undertook to fund their studies are still regarded as too face-loosing and humble for the professionals and leaders of the future -- yet there are obvious contradictions as it's not very common to observe serious scholarly activity outside (or even inside) campus classrooms & everyone knows the money for the latest clothes, mobiles and so on has to come from somewhere.

While there's certainly some element of that here, I think it's more broadly true that the vast majority of Thai young people attending and completing university today will go onto pretty normal, unremarkable careers, if they have any career at all. Thailand has benefited, like the U.S. has in past years, from the vast expansion of higher education opportunities to the "masses" in some form or another. But the numbers of Thai young people I meet who have some kind of university degree and no particularly professional employment are overwhelming. So to say working while studying would be too "face-loosing" for these folks misses the mark, in my opinion.

During my college years, my parents were mid-level professionals. They helped pay for part of my education, and expected me to pay the remainder. I always thought that was a pretty fair deal. It never occurred to me to have the attitude that working was beneath me or face-loosing. And in fact, even working at humble jobs teaches you things about the real world and getting along with colleagues and dealing with customers -- all things useful in any future career. I went onto a 15-year career as a writer for one of the largest newspapers in the U.S., and another decade as a university administrator.

Looking back, I never regret for a moment that I had to work during college. And in fact, most of my peers in the U.S., men and women alike, were doing similar things to support their studies. During my past decade working at a large master's-level, urban public U.S. university, students not working to support themselves would be quite the exception.... not the rule. It's curious to me that Thailand seems to have such a different take on this.

There is something about the Thai custom and attitude toward being a university student...

I had an ex-GF and friend here who was and is a university student. I never supported her financially, but clearly she was interested in that. On my own, even though it had been suggested here above in this thread, I came to the conclusion that the better thing for me was to help her become self sufficient rather than simply doling out money as a sponsor.

So we had some long conversations about that, and how she, being quite personable and reasonably proficient in English, ought to be able to find a normal (not bar) part time job that she could do while finishing her studies. Over a period of time, she gave some half-hearted efforts at that, worked a little, and finally gave it up.

Within a year later, she had met and was being sponsored (XX,000 baht per month) by an English guy living abroad who, by her own admission, she was OK to date and be intimate with, but not in love with at all. As far as I know, she's still doing that to get thru school and not working or even trying to work.

When we talked before about the part-time job notion, her response to me was that Thai university students don't do that (work jobs to support their studies). They go to school, and after school, they study a bit and then want to have fun, that was her argument. None of her friends were working jobs, she pointed out. It also became very clear to me that for the typical Thai university student, the time demands of their studies are not so great that taking on part-time work would be a big problem.

Not being a univ. teacher here, I'm not in a position to opine on the share of Thai univ. students who support their studies through part time work (though I clearly know some do). In my own case, I paid for half of my university studies through working 3-4 nights a week on the graveyard (overnight) shift at 7-11s in the U.S., mopping floors and stocking shelves all through my college years.

So I tend to be a bit put off when people (Thai women) expect something to be handed to them for free, or, as the case may be, in exchange for having a sponsor. That's certainly the easier way out, I guess. But I'm not sure it's such a great thing for building character in today's Thai young people.

I guess one could think of sponsorships as a kind of job. But if you look at the practice that way, then, it's very clear what's being sold. And at that point, it becomes hard to separate that from what goes on in the bars.

Article from the end of 2004: http://www.bangkokpost.net/ecoreviewye2004/finance.html

Local banks will face another key challenge in 2005, when a new law establishing a deposit insurance agency is expected to be passed... Since 1997, the central bank's Financial Institutions Development Fund has offered a blanket guarantee for all deposits within the banking system... Deposit insurance will be phased in over a four-year period, with coverage of up to 50 million baht given in the first year and falling to just one million by the fourth year.

Did such a law ever get passed? Did such an agency ever get set-up? Does it cover foreigner accounts?

The answers to the above questions are yes, yes, and yes....

News reports have been posted here in other banking threads containing the details of all this.

Without offering any judgment about whether it's right or not...

I think there's a clear custom among many (most???) Thai people that if they are out with a farang, particularly if the farang is a tourist (as opposed to ex-pat), they expect the farang typically to pay. Not everyone... Not always... But many... And often...

Then, there is the male-female dating dynamic added in, that even in Western cultures and certainly no less in Thailand, there's some custom that the guy takes care of the woman.

I'm not a tourist... I live here.... But I've had the same experience as the prior poster in terms of things being pretty much a one-way street.

In fairness, in my own idea, I probably earn more than most of my dates....so I'd expect to be paying more of the time. But it would be nice for a woman to offer sometime....

Here's the latest foreign currency info for Bank of America, according to Bankrate.com...

Bank of America

• ATM withdrawal: $5 plus 1 percent of ATM withdrawal

(waived for BofA customers withdrawing money from global ATM alliance members)

• Credit card purchase: 3% of point of sale charge

• Debit card purchase: 3% of point of sale charge

• Credit card cash advance: Their regular cash advance fee applies; no additional charge.

Bankrate also has an article that explains this whole subject, including the 1% standard deductions assessed by Visa and MC, and how different banks add on their own charges above that. At the bottom of the article, they have a search function to see the different rates for a variety of major banks.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/200506...bank=bofa#chart

For Cathyy and others, here are some additional options...

Countrywide Bank (now owned by BofA) offers an Interest Checking account ($250 min. bal.) through its physical branches and a money market (checking) account ($1,000 min. bal.) that can be opened online. Both are available with ATM cards. The bank's web site says their ATM cards can be used with any Star, Plus or Cirrus network ATM machine, and Countrywide won't charge any fee for withdrawals. Countrywide will not reimburse other bank's fees.

Countrywide's web site and their 84 page accounts disclosure document seem to make no mention of any extra foreign currency transaction fee. So I would assume Visa or MC take their standard 1% via a slightly reduced exchange rate, and no additional fees are charged. But their telephone customer service hours are only M-F, so I couldn't confirm that today.

Addditionally, maybe this will be of help to you Cathyy. They seem to have 3 physical branch locations in Michigan. See the following site on their web site:

https://bank.countrywide.com/fincenter2.aspx?si=MI

Also, Bank of Internet based in San Diego CA offers a high interest checking account that charges no ATM fees and reimburses other bank's fees up to $8 per month. Comes with a Visa check card. There is no min. bal. required, but you need $5,000 in the account to avoid a $7.50 per month service charge. They also make no mention of any additional foreign currency fees regarding their account, but anyone interested should call to confirm. This account also includes a free initial order of checks and unlimited check writing privileges, as well as free online billpay.

Lastly, I checked on the latest from BofA regarding their ATM fees schedule.

At least for California accounts (and I assume elsewhere), their current fee schedule lists a $2 per use fee for non-BofA ATMs used in the U.S., and a $5 per use fee for non-BofA ATMs used internationally. ($5 is REALLY steep!!!!). Those fees apply equally to ATM withdrawals, transfers and balance inquiries... $5 just to check your account balance?????

I looked tonight on BofA's web site, but couldn't find their current additional % charge for foreign currency withdrawals.

Cathyy, maybe you have some particular reason to need to have a physical bank branch in Michigan...

But for me, these days, with the availability of Internet banking and easy online ACH transfers, the physical location of a bank is pretty irrelevant.

Almost any bank these days you can open and fund a new account either entirely online or mostly online and then by mailing back a few signed documents. And then fund the account by mailing in a check or doing an ACH transfer.

We're talking about having an ATM/debit card that you can use to make low or fee free ATM withdrawals when traveling abroad. It doesn't have to be your primary bank/banking relationship. Just the one you use for traveling abroad. So what difference does it really make whether the bank has an office physically in some particular area???

I have never gone looking for banks in southern lower Michigan. Maybe you can consider broadening your banking horizons a bit...

The bank I mentioned above, Salem Five Direct, is a quality bank with both FDIC and state insurance, great customer service, and a very good account in terms of its feature set.

http://www.salemfivedirect.com/

And about IndyMac bank, yes, they got into trouble in the whole mortage scam thing. But now they are owned by the FDIC, and you can't be any more secure than that. In checking today, I see they have now changed so that their checking accounts can only be opened in their branches. But their savings accounts can be opened online. Unfortunately, their web site no longer provides clear info on their fee policy... So a person would need to call them.

http://www.imb.com/

Another very good choice, depending on your spending habits, is Charter Bank in New Mexico (again, you can do everything online here). They have what they call a Turbo checking account that currently pays 6% interest on any balances up to $25,000 (not $25K as the minimum balance). They also refund all ATM fees. But you do have to meet 4 conditions to quality for this: 1) accept electronic (not paper) statements, 2) log-into their web site at least once a month, 3) make at least 13 debit card purchases (gas, grocery store, online music, etc etc.) per month of any amount, and 4) have at least one direct deposit or ACH transfer (no fees for that) in or out per month.

http://www.turbochecking.com/

Another option with folks who just recently have become a national bank is Capital One Direct. They have what they call a High Yield Money Market account that includes an ATM card where Capital One will not charge any ATM fees either domestically or abroad. (They will not reimburse the other bank's ATM fees if they charge them, but most banks in Thailand don't anyway). There are no other account fees, though I believe they would deduct VISAs 1% cut via the exchange rate calculation.

http://www.capitalone.com/directbanking/mo...ounts/index.php

I'll check and see if I can find a broader list of these kinds of accounts, since others might be interested as well.... But if the bank for you has to be in that one narrow geog. area you mentioned, then yes, it could be a problem.

I have explored some more myself and have found two specific references so far. The first is a residential hospital for the infirm (Golden Years Hospital) in Bangkok. The second is a residential community (Tanaboon Village) in Hang Dong that in various places has advertised "independent living" and "assisted care" for residents:

http://www.goldenyears.co.th/en/

http://www.tanaboon.com/meet.html

Thanks for sharing the info, Mapguy...

I was just looking at the web site for the Tanaboon project near Chiang Mai... Thing is, I can't find anything on their web site that even hints at or alludes to any kind of supportive services being available or provided within the community.

Just the usual stuff about a planned community with security and build-to-order houses. So if they have some component of "assisted living," they're not doing a good job of conveying it...

Dunno how you did it... but I'd say you're very lucky to have found someone who meets your needs, at a reasonable price, and who has had the stability to stay with you for 6 years... Congratulations about that!!!!

I don't remember anything particularly problematic about Thursdays...

But in the past, people going there have reported problems about excessive, unexplained denials on Mondays -- possibly due to who's on duty on that particular day. So the advice was to avoid Mondays...

Ya, I second the advice given above...

At both Bumrungrad and BNH, for example, I haven't run into any problems asking the docs to know in advance what exactly they are wanting to prescribe...and usually discuss it during the consult in the (false) context of, I perhaps already have a sufficient supply at home or even, just want to know what exactly it is and how often to take, etc etc.

But in any case, the first step after seeing the doctor is always to go to the checkout/cashier window. And before paying, I always ask for an itemized, printed billing statement that will show any/all medicines the doctor has ordered, the detail of them, and the hospital's price.

At that point, if there's anything I want to pursue obtaining outside the hospital, I just tell them to remove that from the bill, and that I already have it, so no need to purchase more. But I keep the original itemized printout because it includes the list of things I may need to obtain elsewhere.

Easy to handle like that.

These folks also do a once weekly organized tourist visa run, leaves BKK Ekkamai via tour bus on Sunday evening, I believe. All inclusive price around 5,000 baht... I haven't use them for that, but have for routine border visa runs, and they do a good job.

http://www.thaivisarun.com/map.htm

The web site doesn't mention the tourist visa runs, but you can call them for the details...

The accident in question DID happen... Saw it reported on Thai TV news yesterday... a pretty long clip showing what looked to be an older Indian woman crying her head off in grief, and a lot of other Indians gathered around. Large crowd of Thais standing nearby... The car crashed into some kind of big pole... And then the TV crew was interviewing the Thai police officer on the scene, and in the background, they were hauling a body away wrapped in a white sheet.

Is that enough verification for you???

Cathyy.....

There are quite a few banks that don't charge extra fees for foreign ATM transactions. But they tend not to be the MAJOR national banks, but rather smaller and regional banks and credit unions. And I don't mean they don't charge based on your having a huge account balance. I mean they don't charge period. You need to do some research online and even here on TV, where some of this has been discussed and reported on previously. But for two examples, Salem Five Direct's EOne checking account is such an account. Salem5 doesn't charge any fees themselves when you use other bank's ATMs, and they will reimburse up to a certain amount if other banks charge you a fee (which Thai banks typically do not, except for SCB now). And, IndyMac Bank in California, at least before they were taken over by the Fed, was another. I haven't checked on them since that occurred to tell you if they've changed the policy about that. Likewise, for credit cards, Capital One doesn't charge foreign exchange fees when you use their credit cards abroad, unlike many another companies that charge up to 3% also.

About BofA, I haven't used them for the past year. But last time I did (obviously more than once), using their standard BofA debit card in Thailand, every ATM transaction would generate 3 separate line item charges to my BofA checking account: 1) the withdrawal itself, 2) the flat non-BofA ATM fee, which was $3 something and then went up to $5 I think, and then 3) their 3% foreign currency exchange charge. It was RIDICULOUS, and that's what cause me to swear off ever using them again in Thailand (or elsewhere abroad). So my experience on that was not so long ago.

Because these banks are U.S. banks, they don't typically spend a lot of time talking about no foreign ATM or foreign currency charges as an important feature, since most people are using their ATM cards domestically. So it either takes you doing to research, and specifically looking for banks that advertise never charging ATM fees anywhere in the world. That's a start, but ATM fees are not the same as foreign currency charges. So you really need to look for both.

The wrong part: "All US banks charge some kind of fee for withdrawing money from a foreign ATM that's "out of network."

That's absolutely not true, as my own bank accounts can attest, and other banking posts here on TV can reinforce. There are some U.S. banks that specifically do not charge transaction fees for foreign or even out-of-network domestic use, as a perk for their accounts. And there are others that reimburse those charges every month, either unlimited or up to a certain amount per month.

The one part that you cannot avoid, I believe, is the 1% exchange rate cut that VISA takes. But that's VISA taking it, not your US bank, whichever one holds your account. And that typically never shows up as a discrete fee. Some however, like BofA and HSBC, decide to pile on and charge a 3% transaction fees, taking the extra for themselves, in addition to BofA's flat international transaction fee of what... $5 per use now.

The bad advice part: "As much as I despise and loathe the evil that is Bank of America I really have to recommend them for overseas banking."

As a long time and still current BofA customer in the U.S., they are very convenient to use there. But they're about the last U.S. bank I would ever use in Thailand. Their wire transfer fees (U.S. to Thailand) are extortionate. Their office in BKK provides absolutely no retail banking services for BofA customers. And why in the world would anyone want to pay 3% and $5 every time you use your BofA debit card in Thailand, when you could use any number of other U.S. bank or credit union cards and pay only 1% and often no flat fee.

Due to the previously mentioned bank merger, I very recently searched long and hard for a US bank that did not charge a fee for an out of network foreign ATM. They all charged a fee. Some banks will waive that fee if you maintain a minimum balance in your checking account. Like $25,000. I don't maintain a balance that large in my checking account. So my statement in true in general, but not for you as you apparently qualify for the exception. If you know of a bank that does not charge a foreign ATM fee without having to maintain over $2500 in your checking account please tell me which bank it is. I'd be very interested.

How current is your info on the 3% currency exchange fee at B of A? That's the evil bank that took over my semi-nice bank. I have read their schedule of fees very closely. They do not mention any fee other than the $5 that applies to foreign ATMs or currency exchange. They do not stipulate any fee for currency exchange at all. If your information is old, it may have changed now due to the class action suits they lost fairly recently over foreign exchange fees. Also, the fees they are allowed to charge are not necessarily standard nationwide but vary by state to conform with the state banking laws of where your account is located, so YMMV. Or it could be they'll take the 3% out via an artificially low exchange rate. I'll find out in a week or two.

My recommendation of B of A is based solely on that flat fee. Everybody else I talk to is paying either 2% or 3%. If I can get out of paying that fee I would be quite happy.

There have been a number of problems surface here in Thailand...and those have been reported here.

One was the government seizing a big supply of bulk milk powder or something similar, supposedly, before it got into the supply chain, though they were checking on that... And then there have been a couple of product problems at well.

I think they also supposedly began a hold and inspection program for milk product imports from China.

That's what I remember reading here. But I haven't tracked it closely the past two weeks or so. Do a TV search and see the latest.

Ya... it's a strange thing re Thai beers (and we now are getting seriously off thread).

But I can drink Leo all night and feel fine the next day. But I drink just one or two Singhs, and hangover like crazy...

Drinking Mexican beer is so much fun.... but a bit pricey in Thailand....

Don't let the piss rumors put you off.....

Gotta agree with Naam... yes... Bud beer is a bit of watered-down horse's piss.... but... it is AMERICAN horse's piss...so gotta give it some credit for that.... And.. I say that as an American...

On the other hand, Miller's tastes like fermented lawn grass clippings... So it's really hard to choose between the two...

So if you can't decide, just drink Coors instead.... since water has no taste anyway...

A seriously failed attempt at a joke....

Hahahahaha....

Now that's a recommendation that would turn some heads here on Tv....

Hey...you guys are getting really picky here....

So we aim at Kuwait and hit Iraq.... So we aim at Afghanistan and hit Pakistan.... Stuff like that. Happens all the time to the best of us...

Not really much difference there... Just a border and different country.... Easy to get lost in route....

Thanks Ajarn... So...the bulk of your 30K per month is for a live-in housekeeper? I hope he or she gets a holiday off sometime???

I think this is a very good topic, and one that hasn't produced a lot of available resources..at least as yet.

There was another Thai Visa thread on this subject recently....that did contain one care provider reference... The thread is here...

I'm not old enough yet or have any condition that puts me in the situation of needing these services... now.... But, I have a family member with a chronic care condition, requiring pretty much 24/7. so it really set me to thinking about the future prospects... especially since I plan to stay in Thailand.

The general impression I get is, because Thais tend to rely on the family structure for these kinds of things, there hasn't developed as yet much of an organized business structure here for that kind of care, unlike in the West.

For farang, of course, many end up being married with Thais, and have an extended family in that way. But I'd suspect, many also end up getting divorced or separated at some point. Other folks choose to stay single. And I'm not sure, if I got into a care-needing situation, I'd want that handled entirely by Thai inlaws and such. Especially if there were medical needs involved.

The one thing I have taken on already, is looking at financial options for long-term care insurance coverage in Thailand. My local insurance broker checked and basically came back saying Thai companies aren't really offering that (specific long-term care policies), except for some limited options through life insurance products.

I have an ex in the U.S. who's in the insurance business who tells me some of the international providers have LTC coverage that will apply anywhere in the world. Before I moved from the U.S., I had long-term care coverage thru my government job, and could have kept the policy by paying the premiums on my own post-employment. But, that policy would only have provided coverage within the U.S. (not Thailand or abroad). So I let it go.

So back here in Thailand, I'm looking now at one regular medical insurance policy offered thru one of the international firms that includes specific coverage for long-term disability, both for acute care, and home palliative care. The medical policy is more expensive than some others, but it's good coverage, renewable for life (no age cutoff) and includes the disability coverage...

The policy details in that regard are: Chronic condition coverage... 100% for "acute exacerbation" up to the annual policy limit of 83 million baht per year, and "routine management and palliative treatment" up to 360,000 baht per year (30,000 baht per month or roughly $10,000 U.S. per year at current rates).

The devil, of course, is always in the details. So my insurance broker today delivered the actual policy language (all the legalese stuff) to me at home, which I'll be reading this weekend... and report back further here.

Of course, it's not only where you get such care and who you get it from, but also making sure that you don't go broke or spiral downward financially and find yourself unable to maintain your needs.

PS - I should have added, re the med insurance policy, I'd assume it includes the standard provisions for excluding pre-existing conditions. So these kinds of things are really ones you want to provide for... before.... you end up needing them.

Personally, I have been in need of such care for the last few years. There are plenty of trained and non-trained staff to help out. Cost to me is an extra 20,000 per month for great care and help

Ajarn, what level of care have you been able to arrange for that price??

24/7??? or... so many days and so many hours per day???

And, just "civilian" help or medical/nurse qualified folks???

I'm assuming you mean... at-home care....

Thanks James.... Guess I'll have to miss footie there....