luluanator

Here's an interesting fact from wikipedia: "Thai Cultural Mandates issued in 1939 and Western writingsprove Thai women would go clothed fully or topless in public before the westernization of dress. In the late 19th century the influence of missionaries and modernization under King Rama V encouraged local women to wear blouses to cover their breasts. Until the early 20th century, women from northern Thailand wore a long tube-skirt (Pha-Sin), tied high above their waist and below their breasts, which were uncovered".

It was mainly Western influences that encouraged Thai women, and many others in SE Asia, to cover up their breasts.

As a guest in Thailand, I think it is important to respect the culture, but I do wish toplessness was permitted like it was in the last century. Nothing like a swim in the ocean in with no top on. You men know what it is like.

As a mere Farang worker in this country I am told to shut my mouth and if I don't like it - leave.

I am harassed by all levels of Govt employees at Immigration regarding continuing renewal of my Visa.

I go to my bank and they do not have sufficient cash to meet a withdrawal slip and now I make phone calls in advance so they can meet it.

I cannot own a house but can own a condo provided the majority in the building is owned by Thais but where to put two kids and a wife in a Condo?

I cannot send money to my offshore requirements to meet credit card payments without providing a statement and proof of who I am even when I have a local bank account.

Banks won't lend me money as a medium income earner so I cannot expand my business - I simply have to pay cash

I employ 4 permanents and look after my staff. I employ 100 at a time on contract - yet I am looked upon as elite or with ATM stamped on my forehead

I have a Thai family and le-kreung kids but cannot get PR without paying for the privilege yet all are dependents on my ability to support them

And now I have to put up with rabble who are being manipulated by a convicted criminal who 'was' part of the elite they so badly oppose, who are all but stopping my possible income to my business as I only deal with international clients bringing money into Thailand, who are being warned by Embassies and bloated media reports that Thailand is not safe...

From me, my family and kids, wake up Thailand. Look at what you have and work to improve it. Complaints and protests manipulated by power brokers who care nothing about you, democracy and have greed as their motivational factor, are destroying Thailand in the eyes of the world and if you don't care, try being a foreigner living in another country and see how this rubbish affects you as right now I have to play by your rules and whilst I can't change them - I sure as hel_l can have my say!

I pick Thailand over my native US on most days. It is true there are many unfair policies (no pensions for foreigners who devote their lives to teaching/civil service here comes to mind) here-for both nationals and foreigners. But all my basic needs (and quite a few wants) are more than met with a crappy gov. university salary. I have access to affordable health care, can walk alone at night (I am a woman), people are not in my face or aggressive (yes the line cutting sends me in a frenzy, but if that is one of my greater issues here, I can live with it). I understand your frustration but when I compare what I have here to a life I would have in the US, Thailand is a much better bet.

Good luck

It is a privilege to be able to make jokes about the plights of the poor. Try destitution for a few generations then get back to me.

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others

There is nothing complexat all, the situation is simple, Mr. T wants his power and money back and paid those people, most of whom who have no clue as to what is actually going on, to protest. A clear sign of a lack of IQ is obvious through those primitiv rituals which do not lift Thailands reputation in the world - well, the sticky rice is going to run out soon and they will go home

I know some people who support the protests but not Thaksin. Perhaps the protests are not just about Thaksin, but a greater discontent in the country- all protest can be reduced to null if all complaints can be called redshirt grumblings. As for the "blood ritual", it is a great tool for the media. What does it mean? As we can see, there a few interpretations. Don't all political movements have strange religio-rituals? To my mind they are silly, but they are a great way to stir passions, suspicions, and imbue the movement with some of the "wa". Really the only way we get to witness this, or anything in the news, is by people making decisions on what to show. There has rarely been any objective reporting. It comes down to power and those who feel powerless are grabbing a straws.

Isn't it a bit insulting to call the protesters low IQ and easily bought off with sticky rice?

I still worry about what Jatuporn might do. He knows this protest has failed. While I had hoped the blood drive was an exit strategy, instead it appears to be an attempt at a rallying cry. What next?

Seppuku

Seppuku in the traditional sense was something an honorable warrior/servant did when they messed up or were so ordered. Something they proudly did to atone for their mistakes. I see no honor in the way the red leaders have misled their poor, lower educated followers. Many of whom were paid more to come protest then they could have made in a few weeks or a month where they came from. This is why education is so important.

Then shouldn't the government play a role in ensuring education for all in Thailand? Amazing how easy it is to feel sorry for the poor and uneducated and how say (from our much more comfortable lives) it was a waste of time for them to come and protest when they could have been at home making some money. If education and training and further equal employment opportunities were national standards, perhaps there wouldn't be protests.

I thought that when trying to practice WITCHCRAFT it is pig's blood that's supposed to be thrown. Rememebr Carrie? Maybe there is still one other Thai way/western way nuance I am not informed of in regards to which blood each side uses when practicing WITCHCRAFT?

They are not giving anything they are jsut wasting things.

Witchcraft from hedge-wicca, in England, a truly ancient discipline of midwifery, herbalism & folk remedies for everything from piles to STD. Highly effective by all accounts, as are most things that more than a few thousand years, the trial and error shows which (no pun) remedies are effective. Most of the herbs and roots came from the hedgerows which used to be a beautiful and abundant part of rural England, before the mega-farms arrived. Hedge-wicca also involved psychotropic plants such as the liberty-cap & fly agaric etc. Often misused by the modern quick-buck media merchants today to make it a goth dark sexy kind of affair, it was usually old grannies who just knew a lot about their local flora and fauna.

Thank you for writing that. Witchcraft conjures up selective connotations rather than the living culture of Wicca.

good on them and good on monks who dare to join protests against the government - they might become a new symbol of a fight against the injustice, as monks became symbols for the same ideas in the other countries (vietnam, myanmar)

rituals do play role in politics as well, but won't replace a rational, scientific education and a clear political program - for that we have to wait yet.

I thought Monks were against equal rights for women in Buddhism as Bhikkhun & had tried for years to prevent them even entering monastries & then preventing them having similar stature in the heirarchy ? How does this misogeny equate to 'monks fighting against injustice'.

Tolerance is very selective.

i'm sorry, i'm a bit intellectually handicapped, so please excuse my ignorance.

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

may i ask you, _what is "democracy"?_ as i said, i'm intellectually handicapped & i'd appreciate your answer.

I do not care what religious Zelots will make out of this events, those monks did not make harm to anybody and showed their stance on the moral issue

1) pls, stop immediately, calling me a "religous zelot", while i just question merit of your argumentation.

2) you say, "those monks showed their stance on the moral issue" & _i_, humbly, disagree. so what we've now, you say. "it's right" & i say, "it's wrong" - & _that_ exactly is the reason, vinayana demands monks to stay out of "worldy affairs".

3) if you believe political situation (& social involvement of monkhood) between thailand & myanmar is comparable - you've just disqualified yourself.

anything else to offer? i asked you:

but as far as i can read your comments: to achieve democracy, it's fine for members of the sangha to transgress the Lord Buddha's vinayana? to achieve democracy, it's fine to let a hindu priest perform "rituals" & spill blood?

while, to achieve democracy, for you, it's fine "to wait yet" for a "clear political program"?

It is a complex situation and not really one in which blanket statements about what is right or wrong can be applied. I think the redshirts and others in Thailand feel like their voices have not been heard, and after trying many different ways, what seems like desperate measures-because they are- are used. What should be their fate? Go back home and not have any representation in the government? Be peaceful in knowing the government doesn't give a hoot about about them? Is that the Buddhist thing to do? Accept a life that you know you can change for the better but shouldn't because the government wouldn't like it? I am not showing support for Thaksin, but for the notion of democracy and the voices of all the people in the country.

I think they are playing a very wierd game of creating panic,the government that is.

The reds have openly stating their goal is to topple the current and totally legitimate government by any means needed. Panic isn't good. Defense is. Get real, the red threats are real.

Totally legitimate? Please explain.

But it's not their 'right' to demand whatever they think they are entitled to against the morality of religion and public opinion. Even California has changed it's mind on same sex marriage. They are not being discriminated against any more than i am by not having the 'right' to stay in Thailand on my own terms. Gays cannot marry in Thailand, probably never will, get over it.

I always wonder if those who use morality and religion to back up their arguments live clean, moral lives according to the same religious views that they use to judge other people's whom they harbour a prejudice against?

I wonder too. I mean, biblically, if you eat meat (kill by proxy), have screwed your neighbor's spouse or cheated, said "godamnit", worked on Saturday or Sunday, stolen, or even had cosmetic surgery ("make for yourself an idol" out of yourself- ok that may be stretching it) you might as well be gay by that argument. 555

I have a difficult time with the religion argument, especially when used by people who are not normally religious. It shows a real lack of guts and thought/reflection for taking such a strong stand. An accurate answer could be "I have bought so much into the straight patriarchal agenda that I am freaked out by own own feelings that might veer from the straight and narrow. So when I see people exercising their true feelings of love that are not supported by the hegemonic system, I experience cognitive dissonance and feel compelled to be and act anti-gay or anti-_____"

If one wants to have a straight marriage, then sobeit.

If one wants to have a gay marriage, then sobeit.

I TRULY think that people who have issues with gays/bis/transgenders are scared by their own bi/gay feelings. Why else are some people so visceral in their hatred of gays and their anti-gay attitudes? I am "straight" but have never felt that gays should be barred from marriage. Why don't I have a problem with gay marriage?

If you are one of those people who have a problem with gay marriage, please enlighten me to why you get so bent on the world being straight. And if you go with the Bible, I shall strike down upon thee an entire mountain of quotes and passages from the "good?" Book that I am sure you could never abide and live by.

What the heck is up with all this we-dont-like-man lesbian stuff going on around Bangkok these days?

Why are they allowed to frolick and grope on each other out in the clear open when male/female couples have to maintain decorum or face shame and loss of face? Why don't Thai parents care at all that their lovely young daughter is getting exploited in bed by another female, but if it were by a male, especially a farang, the dating procedure would have to be prim and proper, better yet be disallowed?

Decorum aside, I do find it interesting that same sex couples enjoy a lot more PDA than opposite sex couples in TH. The other day on the BTS two thoms were making out and bumping and grinding. No one (except for farangs) batted an eye. I was quite shocked, not in a bad way, but just not something I thought would be tolerated in Thai society considering the attitude towards hetero couples doing the same thing. Good topic for class.

And, by the way, I totally support gay marriage. Why shouldn't same sex couples get to enjoy the tedium of marriage? 555

Love should never be discouraged or ridiculed.

so why is it that only the USA thinks it can sell weapons?

Something like so they can have the monopoly on weapons sales, but couched in "freedom and homeland security" lingo.

In capitalism everyone has the right to prosperity and Russia and elsewhere have some good deals to offer on arms. So, the US should honor their credo of capitalism and not take offense to such entrepreneurship.

Of course I am a pacifist, and wholeheartedly disagree with arms as a whole, but ethically the US has no right to act the way it does with its false ethical standpoint when it comes to non-US involved weapons trade/deals..

I have often wondered why the US has assumed this authority of global cop/dicktator.

Signed,

An American Patriot in the Mark Twain sense of the word

Well, you know it wasn't weapons, so should definitely charge them. I mean illegal weapons are one thing, but stealing money and/or dealing with drugs is just totally out of order.

I keep reading this <deleted>, make it all free and there will be no criminals, no crime, no prison. Apply this to all drugs, of course. we end up with with a world full of spaced out, or pissed up, addicts, destroying themselves and everyone around them. But of course, me and you keep working to support their free drugs and re-hab programs.

Well if that's what you want, you pay for it. Personally, I believe in self responsibility. Countries make laws to restrict the damage done, not always wisely, but that's how democracy works. You want to break those laws, and get my sympathy, you're bang out of luck.

Also, if you want people to respect your views, learn how to spell.

No, you do not believe in self responsibility. If you did you would be for the decriminalization of the drugs and then allow people to make up their own minds as to use or not. I would still not be spaced out. You think it being against the law is what made me not use? It sure didn't stop many friends (close or distant ones). They still made that choice. Difference is, if they are caught in the wrong country their hole lives are ruined. (Not everyone that uses are lost causes or deep junkies. Most user are people you will meet in every day life and you have no idea about it.)

Oh, and when complaining about a users spelling, made sure not to make your own. It's generally written 'rehab', not 're-hab'.

Amen.

I keep reading this <deleted>, make it all free and there will be no criminals, no crime, no prison. Apply this to all drugs, of course. we end up with with a world full of spaced out, or pissed up, addicts, destroying themselves and everyone around them. But of course, me and you keep working to support their free drugs and re-hab programs.

Well if that's what you want, you pay for it. Personally, I believe in self responsibility. Countries make laws to restrict the damage done, not always wisely, but that's how democracy works. You want to break those laws, and get my sympathy, you're bang out of luck.

Also, if you want people to respect your views, learn how to spell.

No, you do not believe in self responsibility. If you did you would be for the decriminalization of the drugs and then allow people to make up their own minds as to use or not. I would still not be spaced out. You think it being against the law is what made me not use? It sure didn't stop many friends (close or distant ones). They still made that choice. Difference is, if they are caught in the wrong country their hole lives are ruined. (Not everyone that uses are lost causes or deep junkies. Most user are people you will meet in every day life and you have no idea about it.)

Strange that no one mentions or has responded to my post about alcohol. Too much cognitive dissonance for everyone? ALCOHOL IS BY FAR THE WORST DRUG.

Oh, and when complaining about a users spelling, made sure not to make your own. It's generally written 'rehab', not 're-hab'.

Put these people out of business and legalise it.

You can buy anything you want drug wise from the hundreds of Nigerians who are now in the process of detroying the Soi 3 area of bangkok...Where the hel_l are the Thai Police. This is becoming a very serious problem...How do these people get into this country and continue to stay here selling drugs and running the black prositues on Sunkhumvit Road from Soi 3 to Soi 5 .. Wake up Thai Police and politicians before it's too late

Variety is the spice of life.

Drug dealers, importers, exporters deserve a swift trial before they are hung from the nearest gallows.

A few hundred years ago when all drugs were legal people like you used to hang and burn witches.

Because they were doing drugs? Try religious fervor.

How can one that would indicate disapproval of a criminal and selfish act act in the same sentence advocate for illegal criminal acts as well? Either one is for law, order and justice consistently or one is not.

May they spend the rest of their days taking it in the bum at the Bankok Hilton.

Rape is not amusing. What does it say about a person that finds the forced insertion of a penis into an unwilling person's rectum acceptable? Think about it. I would be more worried that a person who thinks rape is ok was walking the streets. Perhaps this is a sexual fantasy. However, it really is quite creepy.

And to those that want to bring up the issue of the heroin crop in Afghanistan. The fact of the matter is that the Taliban has always allowed the cultivation because it kept various warlords happy and it was those warlords that could make or break the Taliban. The money siphoned off goes along way in paying for the various dueling factions. Human vbeings are greedy, whether they are in a turban, dashiki, hotpants or a singlet.

it may surprise some to know that most of the heroin makes it way to Europe, Turkey and Iran. North America still sources most of its heroin from the Golden Triangle. All about logistics. Iran wants the trade stopped just as much as anyone else because of the damage being done to its communities.

And everyone is innocent until proven guilty. I would hope that people in here have enough respect for the concepts of law and order and justice to allow a fair trial and not go on the statements of the local police which have a credibility problem. Maybe these 2 are guilty, but let's have a trial first before they are executed. Thanks.

Thank you for some humane words on this post.

How many people's lives have been ruined by heroine? How many people's by alcohol? Alcohol is far more dangerous in my opinion. If someone wants to do heroine, let them. We let alcoholics become parents, kill people on the road, mess up families, destroy lives beyond their own, and still let them drink. Amazing. Then these same types of people and others have no problem saying we should let drug addicts rot in hel_l and vilify them for doing what alcoholics do everyday. Anyone with me on this or am I alone here?

600 still isn't that much, but you gotta love the Thai style increase, not 10% or 20%, but 500%

But not good at maths - 100 to 600 is in fact a 600% rise

It's *increase* of 500%: 100 + 500% * 100 = 100 + 500/100 * 100 = 600

If you were right, price not being changed would be a 100% increase.

Don't correct others' math if you're clueless.

Sorry, couldn't understand any of that except the last line which I think is very rude...but if you insist, its a 500% increase to me and I think you need to learn how to write before attempting the maths !!

How about looking at it this way?:

What do you get if you take the new price (600B) and subtract it from the old price (100B)? Five hundred baht, which is the difference, or the increase.

This increase is 500% of 100B. Five hundred baht is 500% of 100 baht, which is the price it formally was. If the original price was 0 and you made the price 600B, it would be an increase of 600, therefore a 600% increase.

We can say the new price is 6 times the old price, but this doesn't make it a 600% increase.

From 100 baht to 600 baht.

I wonder why most people pay 20-30,000 baht for it.

Maybe that fee will also go up by a factor 6

blink:

I also wonder why people pay 20 to 30,000 Baht for a WP...the application fee used to be 100 Baht (now 600) and the approval fee was a couple of 1000, nothing dramatic. The paperwork is done by my secretary (guess most foreigners working here have one) and then you waste hal a day of your life at the labour department for submitting the application.

Any chance you could either post or pm a process flow, exactly what you do for a renewal? I am one of those farang without a secretary and I am sick of the 20k rip off for a renewal every year!

Which comes first the visa or the work permit?

The visa then the work permit.

Falangs get paid more and Thais get paid less. I was recently a judge at a speech contest. The Thai ajarns got half of what we farangs got. My Thai colleagues get paid less than I do and they have PhDs from Western universities, while I just have an MA. Yes, Thais can buy more with less and the double pricing system can be considered unfair, but why are we getting bent out of shape over 500 baht?

The cost should be 3000B per permit per year and application cost. Who is paying 20-30K and why? I have gone to the Labor dept and only paid the 3K. I had all the paper work. Maybe b/c I work for a gov. university and they know I make broad beans for salary?

Protecting Microsoft and their monopolistic ways? We live in a world in where intellectual property is shared and stolen and natural property is sold, i.e. water.

Ubuntu is another Linux clone.

As I am a software developer, make, sell software in Thailand, I do hope the piracy crackdowns will include illegal copies of my softwares?

But being a cynical individual, I must protect my own company and intellectual property with encryption.

That doesn't mean I have a full proof protection against piracy, when will anyone ever have?

As I am working with software, I would never use piracy software in my own company, I need updates, upgrades and new technology as soon as it's available.

If you want to use other peoples/companies intellectual properties, buy a license.

If you are complaining about Microsoft, why do they have more than 85% of the desktop OS on the market?

To get cheap copies, try the legal way first, look at Microsoft MSDN and Technet subscriptions.

Even if it's not cheap to buy legal software, not as cheap as a illegal copy, you are stealing from people dedicating their lifes and work to make products for you to benefit from, both in your private life as your professional.

Would anyone go and copy books to sell out in the public?

Is software less important and not worth protecting because of the owner is a big company?

But do know one thing, the software stolen around the world aren't just from Microsoft and other big companies.

Small software companies lives on a fine edge of existence.

Personally, I like Open source software a lot, makes me want to do better all the time.

As I have to meet challenges, so does Microsoft, Oracle and all the others.

What a pity the U.K. does not follow this example.

Please tell me you are joking. It's weed! But hey, I guess with a name like A. Boozer, you're selective.