ludosiam

Dear ludosiam, I didn't miss that. I also didn't miss that he used 3rd world as a derogatory term everytime you mentioned Thailand in his post, and you can look at his previous posts to understand his overall sentiments towards Thailand. I think you seemed to miss that. To put it mildly, he's a despicable bigot piece of feces.

Yes, I guess I have missed that. If that poster did refer to Thailand as a 3rd world country he hasn't been in one of them.

...and I am going to switch to a marriage Visa myself, tired of having the company scrutinized by another "well meaning institution"

Please inform us of this new rule about making at least a million baht in profit ?

It could affect my visa since I show very little profit after paying my salary and reinvesting in my factory. (upgrading machinery etc. ) I only paid 87,000 in taxes last year so if they make it that i have to pay 300,000 i will have to switch to the married visa.

The visa regulations do actually say 1.000.000 Baht in equity but the officer in charge interpreted it as 1.000.000 in profit, threatened me not to issue a visa extension.

Interesting that people who keep calling Thailand 3rd world and ridiculing the country are always the ones who want Thailand to change visa regulations and do anything so that people like them could stay or keep coming back to Thailand.

If they want to visit or stay in Thailand this bad, I guess their countries (like Italy in BAF's case) must be a complete sh*thole.

Dear Thaigoon, I think you have missed the point of BAF's post: Thailand has actually no social welfare system that would support any long staying foreigner, so he doesn't see where these people can be a burden to society in general. Don't get me wrong, I do not ask for a social welfare system, I have exited a "good" one for the sole reason that I believe these systems are a the real burden for society.

But I work for myself! Well that is fine too, start a business, provide some employment to Thai's...and off you go. It is possible, and there are thousands of farangs here successfully doing the same thing.

Wrong statement! I have a business set up with my wife, staying here on a "B" visa unbroken for 6 years with work permit and a proper income tax record and had to learn that if the company does not make at least 1.000.000 profit no more extension will be granted. Posting that amount of profit will mean an additional 300.000 in taxes, I wonder how many small scale companies who do not employ foreigners in Thailand are paying this amount of tax.

The cash requirements had been checked upon my non B extension last week. In addition to that the total equity of the company has to exceed 1.000.000 Baht now, this has been checked as well.

The newly applied visa regulations seem to make things difficult, and do create a new source of income for the immigration. My "B" extension has been processed with hesitation and had been recommended to change to a marriage visa because "very difficult for non B" and hinted that some tea money is required.

In your case I would try to apply for a work permit, since you have a business that shouldn't be too difficult. The only trouble is that the company is getting scrutinized to death, at least that happens in my case. Will try the PR thing once this year, if it doesn't work change to a "O" visa, reducing my company's tax payments by quite a bit with that.

By next year we should have a new government installed, maybe there is some hope.

I am active mainly in 2 sectors: export business which on turnover value is going steadily up but profits steadily down. Here the government released positive informations that export volume is up by 10% but there is no information about tax revenue from this sector. I believe this has gone down a lot. The official information available seems to be blurred to me when looking at individual company statements. The other sector I am active is environmental stuff like incinerators, bio mass fuel etc. for the local market, sales has gone down a lot. When talking to customers the general tenure is to wait with new investment until business is getting better. Frankly speaking, I don't see this happening any soon. With the Thai Baht being so strong and all the political uncertainties we might have to wait a longer while, my personal estimation is towards the middle of next year, depending on if and what kind of government will be formed.

There are so many changes these days and even more interpretations on these changes from immigration and labour department staff that it is hard to say what is the best way to go, it's almost always an individual thing. I have learned that sending someone to the respective department and have the procedures and options explained worked best for me. So my advice, have someone like the secretary who manages the paperwork have a talk with the officers, in my case they were always helpful and came up with some kind of solution.

Thanks for all the votes and posts here so far, I have really appreciated every one of them. The way I read the results so far is: approx. 33% still feel as welcomed here in Thailand as before after the changes, 33% feel less welcomed since the visa regulations had been changed and 33% of the voters are actually upset. From the people who are upset roughly 2 out of 3 have not prepared a "plan b" and have to stick with whatever might happen whereas 1 out of 3 is planning to move on to another country. In my opinion it is possible that things can change with the next government as some of these regulation seems to have an impact on the economy as well, but it is sure better to prepare for a "plan b", means for me not investing all my funds inside Thailand anymore.

Just reading at the Bangkok Post the following:

"Washington considered Bangkok's leaning toward Beijing, especially during the Thaksin Shinawatra administration, somewhat irritating. The Joint Strategic Plan of Action will concern the US even more," said Mr Panithan."

Could that be connected to this discussion?

This was brought up on Thai Visa about a year ago but was not enforced when I renewed my b visa. Another poster on another thread mentioned new rules that were going to be enforced as of May this year. Is this what he was talking about ?

This does not take into account all of the most recent changes. The "O" visa used to be a support of a thai national (a child or wife) and you could get a visa with only 200,000 in a thai bank. then they changed it to 40,000 in a thai bank. Now they changed it to 40,000 monthly income and does not apply to children. To get a visa on the bases of having a child now the only way is to be over 50 years old.

What I worry about is the trend that both the "b" visa and "o" visa changes are showing. Many changes do not make sense.

Yes, that what I was talking about, this regulation is being enforced now, have been informed by immigration accordingly. I too, worry about the changes on "b" and "o" visas much more than the visa on arrival issue. Originally, Visa changes were claimed necessary by Toxin government to get rid of "undesirable's" who stay permanently here on a 30 day stamp and the immigration had just recommended to apply for the proper visa. This is fair enough I think, passports weren't really checked at these "visa run borders". Forcing foreigners to apply at embassies also did make sense to me as they had a chance to check criminal records there, this is well appreciated by most in this community I believe. But now it seems that the policy has either failed to be understood by the immigration or a new agenda is on the way.

To Byeth: I really believe that you were either living with the wrong people from the beginning or were most unfortunate. I personally stay with my Thai wife for almost 10 years, never been cheated by her (as far as I know of course), nobody ever broke into my house although it would be very easy to do so. Company related trouble is normal, finding good suppliers difficult and signing a contract just the start of re - negotiations. I have Thai people handle Thai suppliers for me but let them know that as a foreigner with foreign customers things are a little different, works ok for me.

The main visa change (not sure it's a change, but hadn't been enforced before) is that companies that would like to employ a foreigner must have at least 1.000.000 Baht in equity and at least the sum of a 1 year salary for that person in cash sitting on the bank. Together with the 2.000.000 Baht minimun registered capital per foreigner this is resulting in much higher tax payments for these companies, creating an unfair advantage for companies where no foreigner are registered and discourage companies to do so.

Fair and square, I believe it’s not very easy for a Thai passport holders to get a Visa for western countries. Sufficient funds and any reason to return are needed usually, then a Visa will be granted.

But the issue I actually wanted to bring up is the fact that many foreigner had been welcomed to invest, work, and educate here in Thailand. During this process many foreigners met their loved ones, decided to become a family, built houses, send their kids to school, living a life just as they would in their country of origin. Many call Thailand their home because they have spent more time here than elsewhere. With this constellation in a western country you would have a right to stay, not mentioning owning land, house and company. In contrary here in Thailand with family is becoming more and more difficult. What if for some reason a mixed couple doesn’t earn 40.000 THB a month, 10 fold the minimum wage of an ordinary worker? My point is that Visa regulations should not be based solely on money matters but also on ethics and morality. You can claim that foreigners “expect everything to be catered to our needs or handed to us” and Thais don’t and even might be right or not. No regulation will ever fit every individual and many of them aren’t exactly fair. But I wanted to bring this issue up to see what is the opinion of others and I greatly appreciate opinions by “country owners” as well. But keep in mind that most postings here actually point out that they feel welcome by the “country owners” but not by the government, isn’t that odd?

We had some discussions with the officer in charge as how to proceed in regards with my so serious offense beforehand and this was the way we agreed to go. New permit has been applied for the very same day then, old one turned in and within about a week the new one had been issued. Some paperwork we had previously submitted was not available anymore but the officer in charge was indeed helpful and things got sorted out. I believe that this officer regarded the procedure as nonsense as well but if she hadn't followed could have been in trouble later on.

I originally have started this poll to share some opinions and to know what other people in this board think about new visa regulations. If these opinions are of any use to foreigner who are living here and/ or do plan to permanently settle and invest a substantial amount then it was a useful discussion, if persons are being attacked then it wasn't any good at all. So far I am happy to read what other people think.

One of my points in this issue are that to me Thai business people who are actually run the government I believe are abusing their power to achieve an unfair advantage over companies where foreigners are involved. This is for sure on in the interest of Thailand as a nation but for personal gains.

...sorry only part of the post got transmitted!

Well, regarding getting a PR I actually do fulfill the written requirements about consecutive B - Visas and do have a good Tax record for this but at Suan Plu had been told that it is almost impossible to get a PR and this encouraged me so much that I have never tried it.

Well, regarding getting a PR I actually do fulfill the written requirements about consecutive B - Visas and do have a good Tax record for this

I had a similar thing happened to me, my secretary had a car accident the Friday she had to renew the permit, went on Monday, trouble! Not only had we apply for a new permit, I had to go to the Police where I was fined 500 THB for working illegaly (over the weekend). But at the end, everything was alright and trouble sloved within 1 day.

In another topic and here as well it is mentioned that many regulations are being interpreted in several ways. I am sure that I do not want to rely on an officers good will to get another one year extension to be able to continue my business here!

Agree, changing immigration rules are annoying, and I am sure that the fact we on this board do not like it wont change anything. But bringing up this issue can raise some awareness withing the expat community to prepare accordingly. For me, I have decided not to keep investing in Thailand anymore but looking for some offshore account to be safe.

Philippines (Manila) and Cambodia (Phnom Phen) already practice this (actually they use the term 'non-residents' rather than 'non-nationals' so someone with a residents permit is fine)

EDIT Try to get a UK visa in a country in which you are non-resident, not going to happen.

If it was non-residents then I can not see too much wrong in that.

Would not surprise me at all! It's more or less common practice in many countries already. I had a business trip planned to Bangladesh and needed a proof of residence to issue a visa here in Bangkok. They accepted my work permit though.

As far as feeling welcomed I believe you need to ask " by who ". I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. The country has gotten worse for greeting foreigners every year that I have been here. I believe the common man still looks at us with interest where the business man who has to compete sees us as a threat. Since the government is controlled by business they make it difficult for foreigners.

I wonder why a country like Thailand, not rich nor poor, requires a foreigner to earn 10 times the amount of a normal Thai person just to stay in the country as a non tourist. This is unless you are married, then it is only 5 times. I understand some of the other requirements but the money part is only about greed.

Many posts actually do point towards the difference between the ordinary citizen and the government. It well could be that we're being seen as a thread by some business-government persons. And the monetary aspect of a visa application is in my opinion morally and ethical unjustified as Thailand does not have a proper social welfare

I too feel very welcomed by the Thai people I am meeting in my daily live, otherwise I surely wouldn't be here. One odd statement came up in the discussion here: these welcoming Thai people voted for a Government that seems not to welcome foreigners. Could it be that the government has different interests than the people it should stand for? If I remember well a few members and sponsors of that government had started their businesses as Thai / Western joint ventures and these relationships went sour after businesses were up and running.