Motoon

Now why on earth would the NATION dredge up one of Weng's old teachers from years back and use him to call on the red shirts to back down, and not the government. Strange how the NATION would take a position like that, when it is normally so neutral.

Shows your ignorance. Veerasak was a student activist under Weng and no vice versa. They have once be sharing the same cause.

There is nothing special about this manipulative letter - is just an elaborate attempt to make Weng feel guilty.

Study the background. Veerasak has been an activist for many of the basic issues that are now requested by the (real) red shirts. He does not question the legitimate right of the (poorer) population to fight for their basic rights. He just points to the fact on how far off track the cause has been steering lately with the use of questionable, violent methods and the involvement of people who couldn't give a shit about the cause. It is a matter of personal integrity that you wouldn't understand and by the way, everything can always be dismissed as manipulated without further elaboration.

First off, I don't think this letter needs to be anchoring a new thread. There are already so many threads on T.Visa which focus on the ongoing protest.

Secondly, I think the writer, though a refined and thoughtful person, is pussy footing around the issue. In true Thai fashion, he doesn't get to the meat of the matter. The first half and the last part of the letter refer to his personal relationship with Weng. He also states the sobering issue that he was trepidatious about writing the letter for concerns of recriminations against him, his family and his property. That's a concern in this imbroglio: anyone who speaks out against the Reds risks bodily harm, to himself, his family and his property. It's like speaking out against the mafia (in the US or Italy) or speaking out against anything Chinese in China.

With dire restrictions like that, it's no wonder there aren't more people speaking out against the Reds shirts. No one wants threats from rowdies with automatic weapons and bombs who have proven they're eager to use them.

It is a letter written by a Thai for his Thai fellows. Your reference to true Thai fashion seems frankly said useless in that relation. You would have to read between the lines to get the message.

Very good letter by a very capable man. It probably reflects what many in the neutral corner are feeling. There have been many appeals for reason and common sense to either side of the conflict by several highly respected persons, including an impressive interview with Taksin former mentor in Chiang Mai. The messages/appeals are very clear but unfortunately it necessites open minds and open ears and neither side offers it.

A totally biased yellow piece from the usual offender, Sopon Onkgara.

Sure it is "opinion" section but it really is biased trash. Shame on them.

Because YOU are not biased at all, of course !

Have a look at my avatar. What colour shirt am I wearing ?

Looks deep red to me

There are a couple of posters here who take any chance to bring every thread into the same direction. There is no point to react to their red propaganda and provocations, there is always the ignore option. The above stated opinion piece by Sompon shows a high degree of frustration, anger and analogue to the government an apparent, complete helplessness. Obviously they decided that it is a solution to drop to the level of the Red shirt propaganda machine and to accuse without proof, to report assumptions as facts, to speak rudely and in probably short time to use violence as a legit tool.

It was pure anarchy when the Yellow shirts took over the airport, it is anarchy now. The difference though is that now some factions are willing to push it to a war (or the revolution for a new Thai state, as they call it). By now it seems also clear what the real agenda is...

Please document your claim that a leader of the yellow (multi-color floral pattern shirts, now) shirts who represent the ultra conservative rightist royalists works at Chula Hospital.

He is probably referring to Dr. Tul Sitthisomwong (Medical Science Faculty of Chulalongkorn University).

Your turn now...

The so called "terrorists" are demanding for an Independent Investigation into April 10th.

PTP party have called on the UN for an Independent Investigation.

The government refuses for an Independent Investigation.

Why not get the UN in to investigate as happened say in the Bhutto murder in Pakistan ? Why does Abhisit and his cohorts refuse ?

Well, I think most people around the world can guess.

One more time.

Why did the redshirts cover the security camera's?????? They could provide prove that the redshirts are innocent, or are they maybe not????????????

Let me explain.

Fake photo's, tampered photo's and tampered video is just a small part.

Thailand's military is very good at this, it was used successfully against the Communists in the past and Sondthi, the CNS leader, is on record as saying that, after the coup, that "Thaksin and his forces" will be dealt with "by mass psychology, just as we did with the Communists".

I think the Red shirts should probably first look at their own actions in manipulating media and people. By now there are quite a few cases where they have been caught lying and there will be more. The Government handling of the media has been rather unfortunate but as a neutral observer, I so far still give them more credit in their fact reporting attempts than the other side.

LH, you should be careful in mentioning alledged record of statements, without properly backing them up. Even more so,if you refer to military and the period of the communist struggle. There are a few issues in that relation, that you don't want to bring up - especially since you seem to lack necessary knowledge of this period.

Other than that just keep rambling your one-sided propaganda. Funny enough, every time you hit out at the government you just point at your own short comings.

Hasn't the Tourism and Sport Minister aka Banharn Jr. announced that the Government will accomodate and feed stranded passengers? Maybe they shouldn't have announced it in Thai only?

Just out of curiousity... did any1 here visit the protest site yesterday afternoon?

UDD claimed 40 diplomats would visit. Did they recieve any visits? Any information available on this?

No, they delivered a letter to the UN and their imagination ran amok, as usual. They imagined that diplomatic corps were visiting them at the bamboo palace.

There were actually diplomats at Rajprasong yesterday for a visit. Guessing from the news clip a group of about 8-9. They had a talk behind stage with the core leaders, handed over a letter and refused invitation to the main stage as against embassy protocol. I don't remember all present embassies except Austrian and Russian and some middle East.

About the 30 days proposal. Does it not strike anyone that the 30 days proposal came after Methee was apprehended and leaked some sensitive intelligence including names of other gunmens and further gun stashes (facts reported by news and not yet verified - Police refuses to comment at the moment)?

I've gone back to the statement by Jatuporn/Nattawut of April 11, where they clearly stated that they do not know the identity of the gunmen nor their whereabouts but anyway the Red shirt leaders further stated that they are certain that these are soldiers unhappy with the current government. After Methee's arrest the same two stated that Methee is not a core leader but just an ally and that any actions on his own responsibility. Furthermore he only attended "some" of the group meetings. The red shirt are not able to control him nor are they responsible for any damage done. I still wonder where the first statement of April 11 fits in. If you know that someone is using your cause for terrorist acts wouldn't you be keen to name such culprits in order to not be liable and keep your movement peaceful as you promised? It goes like accessory to murder/manslaughter or so, if you don't - at least that's what I learned. Maybe some of the red member on this forum care to give a logical, unbiased (shit, I just spilled coffee through my nose...) explanation?

I still don't care about colors and I still think that the Yellows started these kind of problems. I still think that no matter what government, what party and what senate, the root problems will always remain. I still think that Taksin was crooked although he understood very well that it takes little to throw some breadcrumbs eastwards and earn deadfast loyalty. I still think that all governments before Taksin would have had the same opportunity but were too ignorant and caught in their believe that the "better born" 1% should own the country. I still still think would Taksin have remained PM we would now be par with Venezuela or Bolivia - read it up. I still think that Taksin is an ignorant, self obsessed control freak who thought that no laws apply to him and his kin - and never considered that he could have become an example by just paying taxes, taxes that would have gone to the further development and education of the "base". I still think that the Yellow leaders should have been brought to court. I still think that the Red leaders consist of a very unhealthy mix of fanatics and convicted criminals, that might or might not have read "Mein Kampf" and that were the first to spill blood. I still think that the Government should announce a house dissolution within 3-6 months, come to agreement with their coalition partners that they'll throw their seats together again, inform the multicolor shirt/ facebook group to further gather the undecided masses and get them to vote and get themselves a fair chance to win a majority through votes. I still think that Anupong deep inside is a melon...

Alas, all of this is of course a very personal and therefore with certitude biased position. All I know is that the whole color problem is dividing the country in a way that will leave very deep scars for a long time.

NEWS FLASH:

There cannot be any confusion . We probably will never know who launched the grenades.

But , it is fair to say we do have proof that this whole confrontation was provoked by the government !!!

If not, why would the government under any circumstances let the yellow shirts get near the reds to antagonize the situation. IF SILOM ROAD WAS DECLARED OFF LIMITS TO THE REDS ,,, WHY WERE THE YELLOWS ALLOWED TO PROTEST ,, AND CONGREGATE THERE . Why the double standard ? No government can claim to be that stupid ,,, and certainly not this one ,,, it was planned its obvious.

This is a typical fascist " divide and conquer " strategy which is to provoke a crisis and then use force to resolve it in the name of the state.

Hence, the claims by all you posters here who think you know for sure the reds started the grenade throwing will always be left in doubt once again . Just like the still lingering questions of the deaths on April 10 because the government lied about only using rubber bullets etc.

Biased and not even correct. I have not seen Yellow shirts but what was referred to as frustrated Silom street vendors and employees. Since they were working or living there until not so long ago, it is quite logical that they are on place. Everything else is speculation, something that pro-red members here constantly criticize about posts of other forum members. so keep to facts as well.

Same goes for your statement of an alleged involvement of the Government. Until anything is proven it is just unsubstantiated BS. Theoretically there are many possible scenarios so please stop acting as you're the one knowing the absolute truth, when in fact like so many of us, you know zip.

Everyone is at fault

Thanks. This clip will be BANNED from public TV especially NBT. I can bet on it.

That's the one sentence is can support. By the way, Miss Chanthorn, your so called eye witness report yesterday of the clash between the two groups had one decisive point missing. Evening news yesterday of the incident the night before clearly showed that both sides were using slingshots, so again, there no innocent parties in this whole mess...

Yes, one of his own tagged him and held a laser on him by accident and then a sharp shooter also made the mistake of not knowing he was in uniform ... would be funny if not so tragic and idiotic. Some of us do have the ability to know what is being said on Thai News and you appear to be just making things up.

Sadly you're the one making things up. There's no shame in not understanding Thai, so don't struggle..

Bragging with your Thai as if you're the only one on this forum, dismissing other members as ignorant and clueless while happily manipulating and distorting. The laser tagging is fact, proven by a video clip. If random shot by a panicking soldier then the soldier must have stepped in front of the vehicle, floated to a slightly higher position and carefully placed a precise shot to the head - but I'm sure you'll call that pro-government propaganda as well. You sir, are the one constantly mixing facts with your own assumptions and wishes. You quote Thai news but in fact refering to the "Red shirt news channel", which is no better than quoting NBT only, so go back reading your motorcycle diaries.

As for the bombing, yes, we do not know what party is to blame. So far there is no solid proof and there never will be. Reason is that any explanation of the Authorities, such as for example the suspected position of firing is immediately dismissed by the Red shirts as lies and so far the explanation by the Red shirts, well actually, they sound pretty much as what your writing in every post here.

Pictures yesterday of Red shirts celebrating the bombing and trying to stop rescue vehicles is still lingering disturbingly in my mind (clip shown on channel 3 last night).

Sad story, shouldn't happen this way. Condolences to all families. 3 lifes taken...

First of all you should verify if the certificate is indeed in Swedish because if the maariage has been registered in Switzerland it will be in German and titled as "Eheschein". It could of course also be in French or Italian depending on the region. Second use a translation service to get it translated and certified for example through TVExpress (see earlier post). If the marriage certificate is official, you can get the translation certified as "true" at the Swiss embassy.

Oh, my head's spinning now Wasn't the topic about talks respectively the lack of? Talk about mental defficiencies in society, I'm sure this forum is becoming fast a dream for any shrink doing case studies.

On the side, news had it that the Red Shirts through one of the sub-leaders (sorry missed out on the name but wasn't a familiar face) confirmed that they might be ready for further talks, provided it is with an acceptable 3rd party, and that they could imagine to agree to a 3months deadline. However there will be no negotiations with "illegitimate" government. The wording apart from the last sentence was very vague though.

Channel 3 update this morning.

Can people put aside the finger pointing and pro/anti redshirt stuff rhetoric for a bit? Until someone provides definitive evidence that the culprits were redshirts, yellow shirts or political opportunists, it is irresponsible to toss about accusations. In politics, normally responsible people often can undertake reprehensible acts when they are overcome with the passion of the moment. If you cannot back up an accussation with cold hard evidence don't speculate.

As Ricardo highlights, hitting a fuel storage dump poses an environmental hazard and the potential for a major loss of life scenario. It's reckless and stupid. The airport is not a legitimate target, nor is putting at risk airport workers, first responders and others acceptable. The people that carried this vandalism out cannot use politics as an excuse. It was wrong and cannot be justified.

The culprits will be caught. Please let the authorities do their job.

Spot on, except maybe for one tiny part...

So the crack down on the reds in Bangkok is solving the problem.

More problems will come if they don't give up their tenuous grip.

What an intelligent contribution

Good that you decided to leave her. I don't think it matters that you'd like to help her. It is not within your power to control since she's clearly not ready to receive your help. In that regard I fully agree with Simon43. The usual pattern is that they have to hit rock bottom and wanting help. Even then it is a long, painful process and absolute no garanties given. Everyone walks his own path. Good luck.

There's a no colour rally on Silom apparently.

NO COLOUR = ANTI RED = PRO YELLOW. It's simple. They are also the messengers of the elite. These are the people creating further distractions.

Always easy to bend it your way, isn't it? It's been the same boring tactics for weeks now. The rallies of "no-color" or "flower print" shirts are at least done in an acceptable way, without occupying neither airport nor business districts and making people lifes a mess. It is a message to the public what a peaceful, constitutional demonstration looks like. I have by the way no symphaties for red or yellow and their "illegal" tactics although I do support that all Thais should have the same chances and benefit equally. There is a very long, long way to go though.

You have to expect Reds numbers to be down.

The Army have live weapons in Bangkok and are threatening to kill fellow Thai's.

That is unprecedented. It shows how far Abhisit/Suthep/Prayuth have gone now, they cannot lose so they must win at all costs, even if many more must die.

I spent the last few days travelling around the north and I can report that Abhisit/Democrats/BJT are finished, they will never get any support from the majority of the Thai people ever again (do not forget the majority live north of Bangkok).

This is probably why Abhisit/Democrats will never give in now, an election now and they will be slaughtered, so its probably best for them to kill more people and cling to power to try to find ways to evade any consequences.

Sad that Thai politics comes down to needing to kill people to cling to power.

You can understand why Chavilit/Somchai want to speak to the highest authority, it would seem the only way to stop the bloodshed now as the Democrats and the coalition seem hel_l bent on more blood and deaths to save them from Democracy.

Many Reds I spoke to now refuse to go to the protest site, with the Thai army with live ammo and it said they will shoot to kill, then can you honestly expect people to go.

How sad it is that Abhisit and his ilk use the Army with live weapons and shoot to kill orders to cling to power. That is how sick these people are, not contend with stealing power through a coup, stealing power through the courts, stealing power through a fixed parliamentary coup, they know cling to power via live bullets and guns and threats to kill more.

Very sad.

What a pile of rubbish. I really try to be neutral but reading the constant denials, obscure witness accounts, distortion of facts and now to top it a useless prediction of the future after conveniently blaming just one side. Use of force is always a bad solution we can agree on that and the Reds can now argue that they don't want anyone killed although I suspect that no one will believe that.

What Chavalit and Somchai are trying to do is completely wrong, innapropriate and is heavily rejected by Thais of all walk of life. It certainly has nothing to do with the concern for further casualities. Neither Chavalit nor Somchai can make any claims of being concerned for the welfare of the common Thai - they never were.

Fascinating to see how the divide even extend to foreigners here (or in the region). It seems that the quoted Nation report is an opinion of a writer therefore it will always come across as biased, more so if you stand on the other side of the fence. I would consider myself colorless in a political sense and I like to observe and assess with as much information available before forming an opinion. It has been quite painful to follow the speeches (some refer to it as shouting contests) made on the Red Stage. I think you should seriously and in earnest listen to ALL speeches that have been made since the start of the rally, best starting with Arisman opening speech at the meeting point before reaching Bangkok. There is no doubt for a neutral observer that the whole rally was always based on the threat of the use of extreme violence. Despite all good intentions that Abhisit might have, this act is played by sharks on both sides and nothing good will come out of it.

Guys, I guess you can stop bitching at each other, whether red, yellow, flowered or pink. One of my firends, member of an elite force, left Saturday morning with a Thai proverb about Mr. T chose to ride the tiger and having to stay on it to the end... He also remarked that there are elements within the Reds that are messing with the one thing that is holy to all "real" Thais. This has now moved beyond Abhisit, Jatuporn and all others involved. Since Saturday night and following the suspected appearance of certain documents there were mentionings of names who have not been heard for a while but yield substantial power. Ask a (well infomed and connected) Thai friend and he'll explain. I'm afraid given the constellation there will be blood...

Well, I'm a barfly and not a family man at all. Nor I have a project or something. So, do I deserve to be macheted by some thai dogs? I do suppose drunks and family men both deserve to live. No?

Every life should be valued and treasured the same. I guess what Dragula meant to say is that Andrew was a good man and not someone out there drinking and looking for a fight as so many do.

It is a very sad and disturbing story. Unfortunately there is a long history of shocking violence in Thai society. One just has to read the different Thai newspapers to get an idea. Yes, Thailand is a fairly safe country depending on where you live and socialize but there is another (very dark) side to it - as I so very well know from personal experience. I could add some stories to support that statement (as so many did) but this is not the place nor time. This place belongs to the mourning for the loss of a good man and the condolences for his family.

Seconded; apart from that how on earth is it possible that those 2 (completely different) problems occurred at the same moment ? What has an engine that stopped has to do with a cracked window ?

LaoPo

I can report from personal experience that this is the actual state of most of the planes in the Thai Airlines fleet! For some reasons the the TG Management has obviously decided that reducing budgets should extend to maintenance schedule and protocols as well. Sure, a very blunt statement. Here some facts:

-TG 970, BKK - Zurich, 18.12.2009, 7 hours delay due to mechanical problems

-TG 971, Zurich - BKK, 01.01.2010, 7 hours delay due to mechanical problems

I had the pleasure to be on both flights - how are the chances of that? Despite being a gold member for 14 Years, 2010 means another airline for my business travels...

Anyone else?

Let us know when they will burn it so we can stand down-wind.