jitenshaman

i wonder if the stranded tourists will get a discount on tuk tuk rides during the rest of their stay

What is the definition of too many tourist visas? Is it the fact that they are issued back to back constantly that causes the problem?

A tourist visa is issued for genuine tourists. I.E Someone coming here for a holiday. But you hardly sound like one.

Most countries will let you stay up to a total of 6 months. Then if they let you to stay longer you become resident for tax purposes and pay taxes. Thailand is only trying to regulate the flow of non genuine tourists a lot of whom are not contributing any benifit to the country.

The reality (and probably the reason for so many flames, arguments, and debates surrounding all this) is that Thailand really isn't trying to regulate the flow of non genuine tourists. First off, comparisons with highly developed, high salaried countries are not warranted. The visa laws for Japan, the US, European countries, Australia, Canada, Singapore, et al are quite strict and there are reasons for this. Conversely, no matter what is said, in Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and Thailand, if the right money is paid to the right place, you get to stay, period. However, places like Cambodia and Laos seemingly make this a lot easier for long term stayers as opposed to Thailand. I have lived in Thailand for 7 years now. I get my visas, whether they be Non B, Non O, or Tourist, from different embassies and consulates around the world by doing my research and acting accordingly. I am not married, don't work here, don't have a company set up or anything else that would qualify me for a Non O or B, yet I have gotten those visas 5-6 times from different places (usually just by filling out paperwork, with the exception of Perth's "friend" visa) which just goes to show you that even the embassies and consulates around the world have no agreement as to what really constitutes a tourist or a visa requirement. I speak fairly decent Thai and have absolutely no interest in forking out 25,000 baht to a language school when I can continue to get visas that will allow me to stay here for far less money, which actually are far more legal or honest, in that the Ed visa for the most part is just an excuse to have a visa. I will turn 50 in a few months, so will finally be able to be a bonafide non tourist. I still wont be paying taxes here, but put far more income into the country then many, I own property here, and am certainly not seen as an "undesireable" by Thai Immigration. My point is that there are many here who do not qualify for marriage, business, education, or other type of long stay visas, yet they can relatively easily still obtain these visas, not to mention pay agents to get double tourist visas in the right places. And, many of these people are not lowlifes, do contribute plenty to the economy here, and would happily go some other sort of visa route if they could. Because of all the elasticity of the rules (one week you can get unlimited double entries in Penang, the next week it is Vientiane, the next week it is something else somewhere else), there really is no set policy, and until this comes into place, there will always be tons of folks living on the fringes. I recently picked up a double entry tourist visa in Sri Lanka...the Thai Embassy there was thorough enough...they wanted to see a flight into the country, they wanted to know about the ability to support oneself economically in the country. They could have cared less about previous entries or even the fact that one lived in Thailand. They did their job, followed their requirements, and as long as one met them, stamp was given.

Greece didn't have cute young women luring millions of investors.

I guess you didn't know, but americans don't need 65.000 in pension, they don't need to prove any income other than that they have a pension, i know several with a pension of just some 30.000 on retirement visa.

Yes I do. There was another thread recently about tightening up on that. So far it does not seem to have come to much, but it will in time. Immigration are not as stupid as some people think they are. They know what goes on.

They will keep on squeezing until everyone complies. Trouble is guilty and innocent alike sometimes get squeezed.

Of course they know what is going on, it's just that they have certain (completely ridiculous) requirements. When I go to obtain my Thai driver's license, never mind that I am showing them the previous license (which I could not have obtained unless i "live" here), never mind that I bring my condo ownership papers as proof of residency..no, those are not good enough. Instead, they want the Embassy letter, which requires no proof, no swearing, nothing but 2000 baht, which then "proves" that one lives here. Bring it back, and the DMV is all smiles and you've got your license in 10 minutes.

The visa requirements are ridiculous because they aren't set in stone and are completely consulate/embassy/whomever is hanging around outside to make a buck dependent. I just got a Non O in the Consulate in Mongolia just by asking for it...no requirement of proof of anything or paperwork, just paid the money, got the Non O.

I have to disagree with Cheap Charlie.

So you ended up at On Nut and then had to carry your bags up to the BTS, pay more money, and go through yet another set of barriers. You could have been at Phaya Thai in half the time and then connected to the BTS.

Look worldwide (especially Australia and the UK) and you will see that all airport links have trouble attracting business. The reason is that all passengers start or end their journey from home or a hotel and airport links pick up and deposit passengers in cities. So people are generally lazy and take cabs.

The Bangkok Airport link is just the first step in alleviating future road congestion; it probably wasn't meant to be convenient and profitable.

It would depend where he lived or was going to. I live right at On Nut. During non rush hour times and with no big luggage (the mini vans cannot handle them), the mini vans are fantastic...30 baht, gets from Swampy to BTS On Nut in around 40-45 minutes, and there is no climbing/sweating to be done, as you go from free airport shuttle directly to minivan. With a large pack or during rush hour, I use the Airport Link. From On Nut, 40 baht to Phaya Thai and 45 baht local train. As I have a prepaid BTS card, I tend to think of it only in terms of 45 baht, but the mini van is still cheaper. Timing is the same, as it is roughly 20 minutes to Phaya Thai on the BTS and 25 to Swampy with the local train. Only difference is it is a guaranteed 45 minutes, whereas the mini van run is traffic dependent.

I think the Airport Link is absolutely fantastic. You ought to know that what you bring on a trip is what you are going to need to haul. You want air con convenience and no walking up stairs, then pay the extra baht for a taxi and sit in traffic. I also think that the local line is far better than the express train. Why pay the extra 100 baht or whatever it is to save all of 7 minutes? And believe me, if you have ever sat in a taxi or bus on Petchaburi during high traffic, it is nothing short of a miracle to be able to go from Phaya Thai to Ramkamhaeng in 7 minutes or so.

Every Ambassador to Thailand needs to contact TAT, the government in Bangkok, and every other organization involved in tourism and tell them that they are going to issue travel warnings telling visitors to rent cars in Phuket, to never take a tuk tuk, and to boycott any businesses that use their services. And while they are at it, send in a couple of martial arts and SWAT teams for a vacation, who all rent cars and park them right in front of the tuk tuk stands.

The OP may be concerned that his particular European embassy won't issue him an income letter for immigration based on his rental income flow. Perhaps he may wish to mention the specific nation he is from and can get feedback on that issue from his fellow nationals. Assuming it is an embassy that requires PROOF to issue the immigration letter, perhaps that's another issue. I guess I'll stop speculating now as I ain't psychic!

Jingthing you seem to have a good handle on this...do you happen to know the answer to this: if one wanted to be sure on the Embassy letter (just in case it didn't work out for some reason) so you go get the Embassy paper 60 days prior to applying for an extension based on retirement (with the idea if it didn't work you'd do the bank transfer)....when you then apply at Immigration, is it ok that the proof of income letter is now 2 months old, or will they make you get something more recent?

of course it hurts tourism. all those backpackers who apply for tourist visas in their home countries before travelling and who generally cross land borders after a number of weeks in thailand will now think 'fuc_k it' and go to cambodia instead. between this law change and the 15-day land border crossing it would appear that thailand doesn't want the backpacker trade any more, only people who fly in and out and who have booked two weeks at their resort on phuket.

They were more than explicit in not wanting backpackers. To be fair, I can see their point. Who wouldn't want to be a high-end tourist destination like Cayman Islands, Tahiti, Seychelles, etc. I just wonder if the gov knows how Thailand compares to those other places.

One thing is for sure - they don't want sexpats living off social security paychecks. Looking at people in Pattaya, I can't blame them for this either.

They will keep on tightening rules until people start leaving en masses and Thai income from foreigners (long term) drops. They are in the business of making money, not being worlds nursing home.

If you're a bona fide tourist, this rule won't affect you.

Contrary to popular thought, the thousands and thousands of people who are visiting Cambodia,Vietnam, Laos, and Malaysia these days are not just dirty unkempt "backpackers" with no money. They are affluent young (and old), they spend plenty of tourist dollars, support plenty of local economies. Thousands of them are on gap year trips, thousands of others are between work, taking time off, etc, and are out for several months. Due to Thailand's border proximity with neighboring countries, they don't necessarily make air bookings as they travel by land, nor do they make hotel bookings as they don't have fixed itineraries. So yes, this rule will affect thousands and thousands of tourists, not just the thousands who live here with enough money and no need to work, yet not old enough to get a retirement visa.

Consistently throwing around the moniker "convicted criminal" is rhetorical overkill when the original instigation and motivation to seal the conviction was political in nature. Even previously level-headed posters seem to have short memories.

Regardless of your opinion of Thaksin, don't be a short-sided sheep to follow the one-sided party line propaganda. It plays right into their hands to keep the nation divided. Recognize Thaksin's situation for what it is: the result of an illegal coup and the machinations of the resulting puppet government.

I'm happy to see some normalcy starting to return to the government and it's stand on the "convicted criminal" as well as other fiascoes like Khao Pra Vihan and the formerly damaged relationships with ASEAN and the U.N. For the first time since 2006, I see hope returning for Thailand's regional and international reputation and an easing of political rhetoric which tries to pass itself off as common knowledge.

It's a pity the only argument is always about the legality of his conviction by a bias and illegal government. Too bad it's not about the 2000 extrajudicial killings of "suspected" drug pushers or about the atrocities committed under Thaksin's orders at Tak Bai and elsewhere in the south, not to mention the media censorship and disappearances in various attempts to follow this up. Hopefully all the level and unlevel headed posters will remember these things, just one more reason why the man ought to be in front of the Hague and locked up somewhere.

You're kind of making my point there. The Thais will change things if and when they want to. Nothing any ambassador says ever makes a difference, and nor should it. Grown ups make their own decissions about where to visit, and they make decisions whether to visit for a second time or not. I don't see what anything has to do with any foriegner. If someone gets hurt badly and needs help or wrongfully inprissoned or something, then fair enough, other than that they should butt out.

Actually this has everything to do with a lot of foreigners and it is great that the Dutch Ambassador is voicing his opinion. Maybe once the American, British, and Japanese Ambassadors voice theirs the situation might even slightly get talked about. How many foreigners have already been beaten with wooden planks, wrongly imprisoned, in need of fair and impartial help (not having to pay thousands of baht to get their passports back from police after being beaten to a pulp by tuk tuk drivers who ripped them off)? Precisely why Phuket is in the tourist news day after day. I would say I know at least 100 people who now avoid Phuket completely for any type of visit, and if you multiply that by other folks on these boards who feel the same way, it might be getting larger. The Dutch Ambassador is dead right. All the power to him for making his voice heard

From the yellows taking over the airports to the reds in the streets, from the removal of democracy, the damaged reputation of Thailand abroad, tourists staying away and the division throughout Thai society. All because (in my opinion) one sector couldn't handle Thaksin's success and being powerful enough, would go to any length to stop him. Thaksin's govt may have had it's flaws (has any in the world not!?) but what's been done to this country in the name of 'putting it right' is insane.

Are you suggesting this deal will not benefit Thailand enormously?!

Are you suggesting that Thaksin won't be taking a cut?

The removal of democracy??? Try reading up on the censorship of the media during Thaksin's reign. Try reading up on the extrajudicial killings of 2000 suspected drug dealers. Try reading up on Tak Bai. And no, extrajudicial killings on such a mass level are not a "flaw," they are extreme violations of human rights and usually a lot more aligned with the word dictator rather than democracy.

I think someone needs to inform movie goers in Thailand that they should be lucky they are not paying twice that as we do here in the USA...Don't get me wrong...I find that to be ridiculous also...I would love to be able to pay only $6.50 for a film...or less...

it's been awhile since i saw a film in the US...probably up around $13-15 in New York or LA? Then again, even that would make the cost of a US ticket price less than 2 hours work at minimum wage. Whereas for a Thai, 160-200 baht makes it a full days wage, so much much more expensive here.

what hasn't been mentioned is that the tuk tuk mafia are getting their cut as well, ferrying the girls and clients around at gouged out prices.

So 90% of Phuket prime land is owned by bad farangs...well, it then must logically follow that 90% of the tuk tuk drivers and jet ski mafia are operating on that prime beachfront land, charging those ridiculous prices and ripping people off right and left....and, heaven forbid, it must be those farang owners of the land that are actually employing these thugs or taking a percentage of their takings for operating on their property. Wow, great work by the Thai government, now they can safely announce to all the Ambassadors and Consulates that Phuket is once again a safe and great place to visit, and that all of its prior problems were actually caused by farangs, which they are now taking care of.

this is an excellent report...I also just came back from Snooky, and wanted to add my el cheapo two cents for those who want to do the same trip on a budget.....Bus from Bangkok to Trat, 5 hours, 220 baht or so. Minivan from Trat to the border around 1 hour 120 baht. I ALWAYS get a Cambo visa in advance so as not to support the border crooks, this time around got the E Visa, which is absolutely fantastic. As stated above, $20 plus $5 fee. They say it takes 3 business days, I got mine in less than 24 hours. Crossed the border, hopped on a moto into Koh Kong (60 baht, and you pay the 12 baht bridge toll....actually, you can get it for 50 which is the real rate (not 100 as they all say). From Koh Kong, bus is $7 to Sihanoukville..plenty of hotels in Koh Kong at $10 a night (Apex is the best). The road to Snooky is now good and the buses are decent, so not too much suffering. They actually drop you close to the PP-Snooky road junction, and you change to another bus there. It takes around 5 hours from Koh Kong. In Snooky, I stay right behind the Beach Club at Papagayos, fairly new place, nice fan room for $8 or AC for $12 or 13. http://www.papagayo-hostel.com/index.php?usr_lang=en&page=presentation&PHPSESSID=fe80ed9b61fd9cd19f1c9f37a2fbe6b5

Phil Harris is correct. Many other posts here are not. Thai citizens do need a visa to enter Cambodia, except to visit the casinos, which can be done on a border pass. A visa at the Cambodia Poi Pet border (if you get it at the Government visa office at the border is US$20 -- in DOLLARS! They take Dollars if you have them. If you don't have a $20 bill, you will pay more, so carry a $20 for each person entering Cambodia. The Cambodian immigration officers will ask for an extra B100, which I sometime pay and sometime I don't. They don't press the issue, but paying it will speed up the process. The buses to Siem Reap from Poi Pet are pretty good. A cab in which they will cram 4 passengers (plus the driver) is $25 per person. As I recall, the but is $9.00. The last bus to Siem Reap leaves Poi Pet at about 2:00, so you will need to arrive in Aranyaprethet by about noon to get the bus. There are a lot of scammers at the border, so be careful. Many will press you to use them to get the Cambodian visa (some say you need to get it at their place (on the Thai side)), and if you do it will cost you B1000 to B1200 (as stated above), But if you get it after you have cleared Thai immigration, at the Government office it is pretty straight forward -- US$20 bill and "maybe" an extra B100. A tuk tuk at Siem Reap is $15 (or can be negotiated to that) and the one day pass to see the temples is $20 or $25, I don't recall precisely. The tuk tuk drivers are very good and can tell you and show you a lot. I saw all I wanted to see from 9 am to 1:30, by then I was "templed out". The Pub Street area is ok, 2 nights in Siem Reap is plenty -- definitely some good crafts and art in Cambodia. I would definitely go on to Phnom Penh from Siem Reap, only 4 hours, and on to Sihanoukville from there, only another 4 hours -- both well worth seeing (I like both better than Siem Reap). I would come back from Sihanoukville via Koh Kong and on to Pattaya or Bangkok. Koh Kong is a good 1 night stop, really good food. I did the trip I outlined in November in 11 days, 3,3,3. and 2 days on each end for travel. Enjoy your trip and safe travels.

all correct except for taxi prices...I was in Poipet late 2010..if you go to the bus stand, DO NOT GO INSIDE, nor pay the prices written in English that they scam everyone for. Stand across the street and a taxi driver will find you. Tell him that you want to share, if you are alone, they will find the 3 other passengers. It doesn't cost $25 per person, it costs 1000 baht for the whole taxi, 250 baht each. And when you get to Siem Reap and the taxi stops on the outskirts and a tuk tuk driver appears telling you that taxis aren't allowed into the center of town, tell him to bugger off and stay in the taxi.

Charge ..... for everything in religion. Highest perversion. Money making machine at the nauseous level.

Selling it as a package tour seems to be a Western concept.

There are of course ways to get it cheaper, but nobody forces the participants to join the program.

I agree. Some forum members treat profit as a dirty word, but it is not. Profit is the motivation to meet the needs of others. Profit is what enables us to meet our own needs and that of our family. I seek to MAXIMIZE my profit in business, as well as in the way I spend all of my time. Don't you?

Most tuk tuk drivers in Chiang Mai, Udon, Hat Yai, and elsewhere, who charge 60-80 baht to farangs to take them across town are making a very good profit, providing for their own needs and those of their family. The ones in Phuket who charge 2-300 baht to drive 100 meters down the road are engage in sheer greed, and probably deserve to be boycotted. Similarly, charging 600 pounds to do an airport pickup, visit Tesco, and go up to the Golden Triangle is just maximizing on greed. Especially as a previous poster has informed, the wat stay is free, or donation only, then this is a fairly big misrepresentation of Buddhism. I once worked in Nepal for a year as a volunteer teacher. I found the position by going there, investigating a bit, and getting involved. When I left, the woman who took my place came via a "facilitator" to whom she paid 1000 pounds for "documentation, facilitation, and training." Interestingly enough, the school was the one who trained her, and the school received virtually nothing from the facilitator. No, profit is not a dirty word at all, but greed is.

How about this case: An artist (painter/photographer) or an author, who likes to spend time in Thailand, is content with a 30 day stamp in his/her passport on arrival, and tourist visa from neighbouring countries, ... sits in his private space to draw, paint or write, .. has no interest in having clients in Thailand, never shows his work in Thailand, because all the income is generated from business outside Thailand, > publisher in the UK > galleries in Europe etc Stays out of everyone's way, ships his work out via courier, in his luggage or in the case of digital files, via the WWW .. does not take a single Baht from anyone in Thailand, nor competes with any local "wanna be" artists, so jealousy is nothing to contend with ....

If that were you, would you even worry about a permit?

Thai tax law requires such a person to pay tax if he is a resident in Thailand for 186 days, and brings in to Thailand money he made overseas .. as Residents are taxed on Global Income!

It is a lot easier just to get tourist visas, ed visas or go via other routes....unfortunately, there is a huge amount of hypocrisy involved. I am one of the aforementioned freelance artists. Believe me, the Bangkok Post, the Nation, and a lot of other publications buy material from freelancers who do not have work permits. When they pay them, they deduct 10% or whatever tax, so the artists are indeed being taxed by the Thai government (or at least the media companies are deducting it, who knows if it gets declared). And yet it is virtually impossible for the same freelancer to get an M visa.

A lot of <deleted> written here by posters.

If a Thai musician, or sportsperson, comes to UK or USA to do their thing, they need a performers or sporting visa. No difference here.

I knock Thailand a lot, but I don't see why people who can strum a guitar, or play the piano, should get off with financing their stay here by earning a few baht without the proper permissions and permits.

Actually, a lot of the CM pubs dont pay the artists. Is some of the aforementioned spots, people get up and jam because they enjoy playing music and having a social venue to do so. The ones who make a good income are the owners of the pubs, both Thai or foreign, as locals come in to drink and support the local scene. Probably more of a case of the BIB just wanting more and more.

you think a single member of the entire cast of Hangover II had a work permit?

Ladda Tangsupachai, director of the ministry's Cultural Surveillance Center, warned that if “people who showed their bodies for a living” such as “prostitutes” and “go-go dancers” had such tattoos, it would erode respect for religion.

Tsk tsk....maybe they ought to outlaw the spirit houses and shrines that all the go go's have, as well as make it forbidden for the girls to wai them.

Phuket really is going down the tubes. First the wonderful tuk tuk drivers, and now all those disrespectful tattooed farangs...what possibly could be next?

....and all this time I thought he was hiding out in Soi 4. Could have sworn I saw him in Angelwitch a month or two ago.

I agree with most of what you say, except: "cos' they are for sure quite wealthy...". Actually, that's not true. People who are "quite wealthy" rarely take "group tours". The people who make up the tour groups such as this are middle income people, or those who are retired and on pensions, and who are looking for the best travel deal they can get on their budgets. Many of these people have saved their money for a year or more to be able to take a tour such as this, and everything has been carefully thought and planned out.

These are also, in many cases, people who have no qualms or hesitation about filing a suit against a tour company for failure to fulfill the contractual obligation of what the customer paid for and was supposed to get. Let a few of those happen and you can bet the tour companies are going to be taking a second, hard look at places like Phuket, and advising their customers to go somewhere else.

Then all the tuk tuk mafia can sit around on the docks all day waiting for nothing.

Serves them right.

What's funny, or perhaps sad, is that last summer I found myself in a position of where I was in Chiang Mai at the Kad Suan Kaew Mall and had to get home, which is 18 kilometers from the mall. 150 baht for a tuk tuk.

Actually, the Silver Spirit is on a 119 day trip from Los Angeles to the UK, and the cheapest room aboard the vessel runs $500 per person per night. It does include unlimited champagne, wine, high end food, and a 24 hour personal butler....so in this case, I think the clients are a tad wealthy. Hopefully they all go back home and complain to Silversea about the tuk tuk scum in Phuket, which causes them an even further loss of revenue.

Isn't it simpler just to deposit the 800KB in the bank?

The notion of paying my consulate several thousand Baht just to rubber-stamp a letter is so alien to me that I would go to almost any lengths to avoid it, and depositing the 800K takes care of that too.

I think a big point is being missed here. There is a very large difference between being asked by Immigration to show proof of something in order to meet a legal requirement, and what actually goes on in practice. The US Embassy "proof" here is exactly the same as the driver's license proof. Thai law requires that a foreigner must prove residence in Thailand, not just come here as a tourist, in order to have a Thai driver's license. When I go to the DMV, I am asked to show my visa (which cannot be a tourist visa), a medical certificate (obtainable down the road without ANY kind of checkup for 65 baht), and then my proof of residence. If I show my condominium ownership papers, that of course is not proof that i live here. However what does count as proof is the good old Embassy letter, which is obtained by the Embassy by paying 1500 baht...not swearing that one lives here, not producing any kind of visa or documentation regarding residency or stay, but by paying 1500 baht and being given a piece of paper. I am sure everyone in the DMV and in Immigration must know that a rubber stamped letter from the Embassy requires proof of nothing (nor does it require lying under oath, but rather paying some cash), but that is how it works here....

All water in the US is chlorinated, but I don't know about Europe, Australia and Canada. Mexico does not chlorinate, and that country is likely to give one the Hershey Squirts, aka Trots, Montezuma's Revenge, than we will get from bottled water in Thailand. If you taste chlorine anywhere in the US, its normal. Exception to the rule is San Diego Calif. where it does taste like swimming pool water. I don't know why that city has so much chlorine in it. I tend to worry more about how much flouride is in the water. Google that for its side effects. It's not pretty.

actually, I think a majority of places in the world today are using chlorine...I had a bit of tap water off my toothbrush while recently in both Nepal and India (2 of the worlds' poorer and filthier water countries), and was surprised to taste a fair amount of chlorine, a far cry from the past...I think governments are stepping up some of their water efforts...however, i still wouldn't want to regularly drink this water. In developing (and developed) countries, there can be the problem that the pipes that the chlorinated water passes through are not cleaned and full of dangerous bacteria...