Lichiyado

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yep. I Mentioned that earlier however the OP didn't indicate that would be an option.....

 

"Another (ugly) option would be to apply in another immigration office.

 CW for example but that's messy and would require TM30 (change of address)"

I pretty much skimmed over this suggestion. Words like 'ugly' and 'messy' get my attention. And it feels like following this path would be these things. But I appreciate your suggestion and will think about it.

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

For you the agent route is not so bad, 1 year only as you will easily be able go legit for the next extension as your 800k will be in there over a year

Pondering it now, Scuba. Not a horrible resolution if I go the agent route. I have a chum who wants to also convert from Non OA to Non O. We might do a road trip to the border.  I'll decide over the next few days.

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure the consulate in Hoi Chi MInh city does a non-o visa based upon retirement. It is not shown on their website.

See: https://hochiminh.thaiembassy.org/en/page/cate-7436-type-of-visas-|-các-loại-visa?menu=5d80ab3315e39c2fe800a799

HCMC isn't my first choice if travel is necessary, but I would like to visit some day. Thanks for the tip Joe. I appreciate it.

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Just an option. 

Lot of countries have visa exempt entry to Vietnam (15day).

 

The cheapish flights from Bangkok to Saigon is a bonus.

At front  of airport there is bus that runs often to district 1 bus terminal. Cost $1usd

The immigration office is close to Bui Vien st (walking street) very chill joint and lots of relax bars etc..

You need appointment now same at Vientiane.

AM application PM pick up next day..

Thanks for the tips. I'll consider everything by and by. Nothing is off the table at this point, other than paying that #%&*%% 22,000 THB. Likely head to Maneerak tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'll report back about that. Cheers!

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Starting to think you would be wasting your time with this situation (immigration officer) 

You do have alternatives.

 

I'm bit of HCMC junkie.

You could see it as opportunity to have a mini holiday.

Obtain the non O in Saigon.

Ripper place and the Thai consulate is efficient office.

Vientiane is also overnight turn around for non O.

 

Of course you could use your immigration office and obtain the seasoning time the io is demanding with a border run..

Still pondering, Jack. But the idea of ever talking to her again or even talking to her supervisor, if she has one, makes my skin crawl. I have to admit there's a tad bit of vigilante juice roaming through my synapses, wanting what's fair and law-abiding. But I'm not a fool. I'll do my best to do the right thing...for me. With as little muss and fuss as possible. Saigon, you say? Hmmm....

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

You are dealing with a highly experienced, corrupt official here, and outmanoeuvring her will be very difficult. I would be prepared to bet that, even when she is not working, her subordinates are under instructions to try to run the same scam (with her getting the bulk of the profit).

 

If I decided to fight, this is what I would try to say to her. It is some combination of (i) making clear you know exactly what is going on; (ii) express sympathy for her situation as someone who gets a low salary but had to pay big money for her position; (iii) say that, sympathetic as you are, your religion outlaws paying bribes, and ask her to help, making an exception by following the rules normally in your case; (iv) promise that no one else will ever know of her abnormal adherence to the rules; and (v) explain that, if forced to move provinces and immigration offices by her actions, you will carefully (without risking falling afoul of the defamation laws) ensure that it is widely known (and especially by anti corruption campaigners) that officials at a certain immigration office in a well known Thai seaside resort are shaking down retirees for ransom payments. This could affect her colleagues as well as herself.

 

All this has to be done very, very carefully. If you are unable to keep talking in a friendly voice and with a permanent smile on your face, do not even attempt it.  It will not be the first time she has dealt with uncooperative victims, and it is by no means certain you will be successful. However, I have successfully used similar approaches in the past with extremely corrupt officials in more than one country.

Thanks much for your input. It was a good read, and I admire your fortitude and tenaciousness. And it got my blood flowing a bit. But I'm pretty sure your idea is not quite my M.O. Clearly, she's very experienced and knows how to game the system. And I think you're right, her subordinates would likely toe the line if necessary. And if she has a big boss supervisor, she might have his blessing. So, I'm still pondering the situation. It isn't the end of the world, but requires a fair amount of my brain-space to deal with. I'm trying to make it not ruin my day, week, year, life.

Do you want to do the negotiations for me?  ????

46 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's too funny, she would shut you up after or during the first sentence 

She already did that. When she said "2 months seasoning" I mildly protested and tried to explain what I understood about the procedure and the law. She cut me off saying "Who's the immigration officer here, me or you?" I looked away and tried my darnedest not to roll my eyes. Our communication remained polite, but at that point it was checkmate. I knew it, she knew it.

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'm not sure she has a supervisor, she is boss lady in room 7, likes wearing full uniform with stripes and everything. Maneerat is good but unlikely to be 5k, i think when i was in the transition period with 800k they charged me 8k for extension only, usual price 12.5k

Well, I slept on it. Still pondering strategies. Thanks for the idea that Boss Lady might not have a supervisor, and that I might be piXXing in the wind if I go back to immigration. I hope to talk to my friend who works at immigration today, asking him if she, in fact, does have a boss I can pleasantly talk to, but being very careful not to get my friend involved in anything other than information gathering. I don't want him to risk his job over this. Also I'm thinking of going to Maneerak today or tomorrow to get a quote for their service. 12.5K or even 8K seems a little rich for my blood, but it remains an option. As does another trip to Laos. I'll keep you posted.

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Please update the forum as things unfold.

There will be lot of folk interested in your outcome.

Hopefully you can obtain correct procedure and not be scammed.

Yes, I plan to post updates as I figure out what's up. Thanks to all for your input. 

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Can't understand idea of return to Laos, unless the intention is to obtain a non O at somewhere like Vientiane etc. 

 

You dismissed my suggestion of using agent to circumvent corrupt immigration officer.

Fine spend more by traveling to Laos. 

 

Or straight up ask the fat lady price to grease the wheels.

My guess is 5k 

Hmmm...when you suggested to use an agent, I was thinking I'll be on the hook for something like the 22K the IO asked from me. In addition I was concerned that I might be on the hook to an agent, ad-infinitum. Upon further thought maybe that's not justified because I'm not asking them to do anything outwardly hinky. And if Maneerat is willing to do it for 5Kish, that certainly would be worth the price of admission, and certainly cheaper than another trip to Laos. Thanks for doubling down on this, Jack. I just wasn't getting it. I'll give the agent a call or visit, if the trip to JT immigration to talk to a supervisor yields no useful results. Thanks!

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, I won an argument with Jomtien office. Back when the insurance came in for OA, I was doing my regular marriage extension and all of a sudden they wanted insurance because I had originally entered on an OA a couple of years prior.

I came back home and printed out (in Thai and English) the relevant ruling that said insurance not required for marriage extn. Asked to see a supervisor, who then made a phone call, and they changed there mind.

You need to approach it being conscious of the whole loss of face thing. Don't tell them they are wrong, say it appears the ruling is wrong.

 

Hi Peter. Thanks for the history. As I strategize how to do this, if I do this, I know I need to be aware of making sure nobody loses face and to communicate as clearly, calmly, and kindly as possible. The document linked above about immigration procedures doesn't mention when the 800K needs to be in the bank when I apply for the Non-O visa. So there is no specific clause to refer to. The document certainly does NOT say it has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the initial application. That's all I have to go on at this time. And there is plenty of anecdotal information here on AseanNow, but I'm not sure how I can incorporate this into my chat with the supervisor. A friend had a good suggestion; go into the office, speak to a supervisor, seeking clarification of the rules and procedures. If he concurs with the IO who refused my visa, no harm, no foul...off to Laos I go to start the procedure fresh. Or maybe he'll make a phone call...

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

for me at the time i was asking how many months of 65k i needed for the non imm O, basically she disregarded that and gave me the spill about the 20k 15 month visa & extension. I didn't want to transfer the 800k then so for the first year i used an agent (agent 1k more but much friendlier and helpful) but you don't need to as you've got the 800k

Oh, so she gave you the 15 month visa and extension thingamajiggy too? For only a paltry 20K? Such a deal! I guess my price went up. Inflation, you know. Yeah, I have my 800K in the bank. So now I have to decide if I want to talk to her supervisor or take another trip to Laos. Tough call.

35 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

This is an IO we are talking about not an agent !!, it’s her job .

2,000 baht is the fee for an O visa not a satang more.

This is certainly an IO we're talking about, not an agent. And with both 'scubascuba3' and me she's wangling for extra cash to grease the wheels.

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

She's got long history of giving farang earache, She gave me the same speech a few years ago

And how did you handle it?

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You go to the embassy in Vientiane or the consulate in Savannakhet and apply for the non-o visa.

Maybe better than a border hop and then having to deal with immigration for the non-o visa.

Not familiar with those options Joe. I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.

2 minutes ago, Onerak said:

Where she would go? Hoping to quit her job?

Day off? Vacation? Fired for incompetence? One can only hope!  5555

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Think you should give it a go. 

Reports such as yours I hate as the io is playing games.

Hard to imagine the io is not aware of correct requirements.

Just as you posted...I added to my previous post of doing another border bounce to season the funds.

Another option also very inconvenient would be to use agent with you having the funds for the non O.

Fortunately you have good agents in Pattaya. 

Maneerat Soi post office being one.

Another (ugly) option would be to apply in another immigration office.

 

CW for example but that's messy and would require TM30 (change of address) 

Yeah, it irks me too. And if I'm being altruistic here, maybe if I do battle it'll help others with a similar issue. Or get me buried. Not sure. Can I sleep on it, please?  ????  PS Using Maneerat or going to CW is not an option. I'd rather to go back Laos.

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Somehow you need to go there when she's not there, she's in charge so maybe next layer up might be boss man. Maybe give it a few days and try again, hopefully she won't be there

Still deciding how I want to handle this. But one good thing, I have a close friend who works as staff at Jomtien immi and he might be able to tell me when she's not working. I'll ask him about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

This is one situation that i suggest you return to immigration and demand (in a nice way) to see supervisor.

Obviously print out the correct rules from ubonjoe link above. 

 

 

Oh my. I've read so many stories about the futility of doing battle with immigration that I'm reluctant. I'm usually a nice guy so asking to see a super in a nice way wouldn't be a problem. But oh my goodness, what am I getting myself into? Gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I'm nearly certain that I'm right (as are you and UbonJoe) about this. And I do so like to be right!!!

Just got your edit Jack. Thanks for responding. Yes, I know immi has the upper hand and I'm already gearing up for another week in Laos if necessary. Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Your mention of the 15 days I've already incorporated into my overall scheme, but thanks for the reminder. 

Decisions, decisions....fight or retreat.  Hmmmm....

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They were certainly wrong. Which immigration office wanted the 2 months?

This the rules issued by immigration: https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

Hi Joe. Thanks for responding. This was Jomtien, desk 7. The immigration document link you posted above was the document I referred to in my OP. It says nothing about seasoning.

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

money does not have to season, so immigration is in the wrong, but you have to prove it came from abroad

Had plenty of proof the moolah came from overseas. It was the 2 month seasoning that was the glitch.

"Sounds like that was desk 7 Nazi Jomtien, she pushes people to agents"

You got it!!! I'm not alone!

Hi there,

TLDR:  My application for 90 day Non-O visa was rejected today due to my 800,000 THB not having seasoned in my bank for 2 months.

I thought I did everything right, detail oriented kinda guy I am. Left Thailand for Laos, had a smacking good time for a week, then returned to Thailand visa exempt. I hosed my (then) current Non O-A, by not having a reentry permit. By design.

Sorry to say, UbonJoe and DrJack54, your idea of NOT needing the money to be seasoned when first applying for the 90 Day Non-O visa didn't work out in my case. What did I miss? I wonder if I messed up somewhere, or missed a more current post or law. Your post was dated July 21, an aeon ago when it comes to immigration rules (titled: 'Conversion of 30 day visa exempt stamp to Non O and then retirement extension')

Nor does the documentation from immigration, link posted in the same article, say anything about needing to season your 800K.

Long story short, I got an extension on my 45 day visa exempt entry, but due to the timing of the deposit to my bank, I'll probably need to go back to Laos. Or argue with immigration. 555555

Oh, by the way, the 'officer' offered to make all my problems go away, by paying her a measly 22,000 THB. I use the word 'officer' loosely. More like an 'agent' IMO.

One more thing. I didn't know, because I'm a long-term renter, that if I leave the country, I have to do a new TM30, even if I reside at the same place. Got a 1600 baht fine for not doing that.

All in all, a great day at immigration. PFFFTTTHTTT.  One good thing to report. This is my first brain-freeze at Jomtien immigration in the 14 years I've lived here. Generally, I find their service and attitude professional and kind.

That's all to report for now. 

24 minutes ago, david555 said:

As it is for me , the rules are clear , only they did not think of side matters , eg. if you wish to change to another money system , or even at another visa system (O-A home country application example ) , how to take your money out bank complete legal , so not risking to be on OVERSTAY 

Yes, the devil is in the details. And the details are not well thought out. But, bit by bit, information will trickle in, clarity will come, and we'll all be dancing in the streets.  Until we're not.