avalonmick

I've never had to delete all responses to a topic and suspend 2/3 of it's participants before but I guess there's always a first time.

I don't care what country you're from but childish insults against other people's home countries are not welcome here, and everyone being part of it will find themselves removed from the conversation.

Now will some sensible grown ups kindly restart the topic discussion?

Would this help? http://www.emergency20wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

... at what point do Thais need to be protected from the Thais?

Yes the incoming government got caught short.

If they are not too politically naive they -the PM - should be out there blaming all previous governments for what is happening now.

As everyone here points out, the problem is not new. It happens almost every year. Yet no-one does anything to address it.

Yingluck can swing a wide swathe of political support behind her if in the next few weeks she acts to remedy as much of the problem dykes, klongs and other waterways as she can before next year's monsoon.

That is the only thing she could possibly have done. She had no real time to fix what is decades of neglect.

As for crisis management, the government appears inept because the communication strategy is poor or non-existent. The government and the army are probably doing a very good job in impossible circumtances. It's not the army's job to fix the water run-off issues.

This article shows the situation here for what it is. Thaksins involvement, if any, to me is a side issue. The government at all levels here is based on Thai culture and the need for consensus and it slows reactions. Works for normal government functions but in an emergency there are just too many people involved for anyone to control or co-ordinate. I humbly suggest that the army should have a permanent charter to react in these circumstances. All the departments of all the ministries, provincial and local government departments with overlapping responsibilities are full of competent people I'm sure but there is no mechanism of delegation or co-ordination that can react quickly. I dont see this situation as anyones fault, it is the system itself that needs to be streamlined.

This government is completely useless... they turned this drama into a serious crisis through Very bad management.... not one minister is worthy of his or her job.... the poor Thai peoples are stuck with this and truth be told..... just as they deserve... you reap what you sow...!!!! Question:... How many Red Vilages were washed away.... Answer:... Not Enough...!

Sorry but there are 280 people dead and many thousands if not millions directly affected. None of them deserved this. I live in a Red Village as a matter of fact with most of the people here very local to Thaksin as his actions during his tenure improved their lives immensely. That isn't relevant either. The point being made is there is a fault in the system that needs to be fixed for times of crisis. The fact that this has happened during the first months of a new government just makes it worse. Regardless of political beliefs this should be seen as a chance to establish rapid responses for future ocassions. The knive throwers should wait until the waters have subsided now they should be helping carrying sandbags.

G'Kid,

Thanks for the clarification.

Let's all face it - the city is in the wrong place: average 2m above sea level near the mouth of the delta. It's always going to flood - unless you have a government that thinks and plans 50-500 years ahead and builds bloody big dykes, a proper dam and canal system to replace the ad hoc stuff that is there now.

Someone thought and did something about once by starting to build a system of roads that acted as dykes and aerial evacuation routes - but I guess the plan got lost.

A decent tsunami in the gulf will, of course, make all planning and building a complete waste of time.

Same here - must be a standard price.

And another 200 baht for doing a u-turn that the cop said was illegal.

Yeh right I have had to pay off one guy only 100baht for driving in the right hand lane.

Two men brought in 169 bodies ... and no one asked any questions?

Just another day at the ...Wat TF!

Withint the British model there are very few challenges to the legitimacy of a candidate, hence those who get the most votes are assumed to be elected - or will be when the electoral officer declares the result.

Here there are so many challenges - often for good reason - that no such assumptions can be made, hence the makeup of the House cannot be known until all challenges have been dealt with and the result declared or a new poll [for that seat] called.

So the 'delay' is about the same, just that in Britain, Canada, New Zealand and other british based systems the incoming PM calls a meeting of the elected MPs and gets on with governing straight away.

Here there are checks and balances that allow for the delay, meaning the outgoing PM stays there until all the seats are resolved.

Why so long? Wasn't the Thai system modelled on the British one, not the Israeli one? In other words, the defeated PM is out the door within hours of conceding defeat and the new one immediately walks in.

Oh, right, this is Thailand.

You ever worked in Thailand??

1-2 month is immediately in Thailand.

Ministers don't get to vote in the House so she needs probably more than 270 to allow for 10-15 Ministers and still retain a voting majority.

However this should mean she does not need to trade ministries to get coalition partners.

Some of the smaller parties that tried to hold out for bigger and better incentives to join a PTP coalition must be kicking themselves right about now.

She has over 50% of the seats so in theory she doesn't have to bring any other party in to the government. Maybe she set in motion a contingency plan if she hadn't have obtained a simple majority then she must have made certain promises that she would involve other parties joining in government. This is the only reason that I can guess can be the case as most other countries newly formed governments would work on the premis that that's it, mission accomplished, sod the rest of you - losers!!!

4 July.

It has a nice ironic symmetry to it

Has a date been picked for the coup yet?

This report was released in October 210! A lot of stuff has changed hands to keep it out of the media. So why now?

Nice one.

What? hypocritical middle aged males? Can't be true.

Yes, it's way past time that someone started worrying about morality in Thai culture. With corruption endemic across all levels of society and business - ie everything has a monetary price but no intrinsic value or moral worth, starting with sex - the place went to the toughest dogs a long time ago.

Here are the before & after pics of the topless dancing girls on Ministry of Culture's website http://yfrog.com/h4nvfpkj

Source: Richard Barrow

Yes, basic human rights are violated here - another way of oppressing and exploiting women, or of forcing them to leave Thailand so there are no longer a 'burden' on the government, financially or morally.

No country that has signed the UN Charter of Human Rights could pass a law like this without violating the Charter:

Article 2.

• Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 7.

• All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 12.

• No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

and in particular ----

Article 16.

• (1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
• (2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
• (3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

So does that mean that a foreigner over 50 cannot marry any Thai national regardless of age?

e.g Foreigner 51 and Thai woman 45 cannot get married?

That would seem ridiculous!

Yes it is ridiculous and doesn't this law also go against basic human rights?

Or their heads in the place where some people keep their Heineken bottles, apparently.

I am concerned that these people are attempting to circumvent the rules by marrying innocent Thai women.

Seems some people really do have their heads in the clouds.

Thanks Arkady. Those are very useful and insightful points.

Why has processing stopped? No-one seems to know.

The islands absolutely awash with long term expatriates, lifers some of them, all living on whim and a prayer of annual visa extensions, to the degree that during the low season perhaps there's more visalites than tourists.

The vast majourity will spend twenty, thirty perhaps even forty years on a temporary extension in a land where they have established a physical, emotional, and financial attachment and commitment.

So long that the notorious British Inland Revenue, might even concede that they had changed their domicile of birth to that of a domicile of choice.

A couple of years ago I made some enquires from the head of the Immigration Department in Phuket town, casually inquiring if they could provide me with some statistics, regarding how many applicants had actually been granted residency and Thai nationality during the past year. They were not forthcoming, or to put it all into context how many of them have ever been declared in the Phuket Gazette.

A combination of factors should be established over a period of time, to meet some kind of default criteria whereby ones rank could be elevated from a paying guest to that of an officially welcomed resident.

A lot of us have come here to retire, and lets be perfectly honest about this, to die to.

We have brought our chattels and our wealth, and even for those that have requested to be buried, it's hardly as if they are going to take their plot with them.

Anybody who has spent the last ten years here, kept their nose clean, has a financially secure back ground, invested in the country through land or a business, supports a family, should automatically be considered.

PR was originally given to foreign workers (mainly Chinese) coming to Thailand without quota, if they could prove they had a profession (coolie was acceptable) that would enable them to earn a living. The wording of the current 1979 Immigration Act still contains references to the need to be able to earn a living and the interpretation is still very much that PR is something for working foreigners who are able to provide some kind of benefit to Thai society through their work and payment of tax. Retirement and having Thai dependents are not mentioned in the Immigration Act as criteria for permanent residence. In fact they are not mentioned even as justifications for granting temporary leave to remain in the Kingdom. Given PR status to retirees would require amendments to the Immigration Act which is unlikely to be a government priority in the near future. So don't hold your breath. The best that could be hoped is a longer term retirement visa, say 10 years renewable, but that would come with the higher financial hurdles and would probably tempt them to raise the bar on 1 year retirement extensions at the same time.

The immigration law on permanent residence is actually quite reasonable, even though retirees might not agree with the requirement to be working in Thailand and to have paid 3 full years' worth of salaries tax. The problem is that the law has never been administered in a very fair and transparent way and, since 2006, has effectively not been administered at all.

Thanks Mario, but I disagree that it was off-topic.

The subject matter is highly germaine to the discussion but perhaps it was a bit facetiously expressed. I was attempting to explore the sociological and psychological reasons for this policy existing in the context of Thai culture and economics. As other posters have pointed out, it actively discriminates against foreign males without actually giving a reason for this discrimination. It can't be economic because most incoming male residents would want to ensure they were economically self-sufficient. If the government is worried about a tsunami of poor, post menopausal foreign males it can adjust the system to ensure each individual is healthy and self funding, as is done in Australia. The policy as it stands is, after all, complementary to that other unwritten but widely followed Thai policy of exploiting Thai women and treating them as an export commodity, and the two policies work together create a supply/demand situation that works in the government's favour financially, but is clearly morally bankrupt.

You were right to delete my facetious post and I apologise for it, but here is a link to an article that makes fun of Australian males in the same way: http://bit.ly/fhdMOM

Off topic comment deleted.

The problem is that where corrupt activities are technically illegal but few are punished for it then the benefits always flow upwards - those at the bottom get nothing while those at the top get a lot. Corruption is simply a pyramid selling scheme where there is little or no option not to participate.

In Thailand the benefits flow so far up that nothing will ever be done about staunching the flow.

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

But if you then ask: would you still accept government corruption if you can also be prosperous (perhaps even more so) without it? I think the answer would be a "no". If the answer is "yes", then there is something wrong with the entire system/culture that results in this because it means people are worried that they would somehow lose out if the $ are not given to grease the wheels.

Corruption is everywhere but in developing type nations it is much more prevalent and accepted. I believe Thais in their general attitude just accept corruption is part of the system and always will be and that is simply the way things get done ... and many times done more efficiently. I think your hypothetical question would be viewed as very unrealistic to most Thais. At least that is my opinion.

Good social researchers know that you predetermine the results of polls by the way you frame the question. The answer here clearly says: yes I can tolerate corruption as long as I get my 30%.

I don't think it is acceptance of the corruption, based on most Thais I discuss this with it is just an acceptance that they can't do anything about it.

ABAC Poll: Thai people can accept govt corruption

BANGKOK, 6 February 2011 (NNT) - According to ABAC Poll, Thai society can accept government corruption if they can also make the country prosperous, people live happily and also receive some benefits

http://www.thaivisa....ovt-corruption/

Catholic university doing the polling has come up with stats that help enforce their own dogma. What did we expect?

Nothing about this poll should be relied on within the reasonable bounds of probability. Are there teenagers anywhere who would tell the truth if asked if they were likely to have sex next week? Come on: the girls will deny it and the boys will talk it up.

But it makes an amusing news story that's taken up quite a bit of time on this stream so far.

The Ass U have made this assumption so we should listen to the Ass U as Valentine day in Thailand is very important and I never seen so much fuzz about it, lived in Lebanon, Sweden, The Netherlands but the Thais take the record about this day. Instead of spending money on this poll, they could educate the teenager 12-24!! about safe sex.

And story now removed from PDN web site, so all back to normal. No my mistake: can't see any story on pdn as their html is not configured for google chrome.

And this is what I love about Thai law. No mention of the club out of fear they will sue.

One more reason this crap happens over and over. Not only are there no consequences, but you can't even name the place.

How come a tip-off is needed in the first place? All power to the Paveena Hongsakul Foundation and Mrs. Paveena Hongsakil , but if they have to tell the police how to do their job including pointing to crimes right under the cops noses, then they are tackling not the problem but the symptoms.

Unfortunately the source of the problem is much much higher up the food chain and thus can't even be talked about, let alone tackled.

Despite the doom and gloom, there is a strong likelihood the girls will receive some help. Strong clues are the fact that the tip off came from the Paveena Hongsakul Foundation and the involvement of the special human trafficing taskforce from the Children, Juvenile and Women's Division (CWD),

The task force doesn't screw around. They take their jobs seriously and have not been implicated in any significant wrongdoing, The task force has a good professional relationship with the groups that help people like these girls.

I believe Mrs. Paveena Hongsakil is a Bangkok MP of and general secretary of the Chart Pattana Party. She is a trained social worker and has a pretty good reputation. Back in 2006, the Nation said she was voted the female politicain with the best moral image. (The same poll said PM Abhisit was the politician with the best moral image.) Anyway, this woman is one heavy duty hitter and if her foundation is involved, you can be assured something will happen. For you trivia lovers she's chairwoman of Thailand's Fire & Rescue Association. (What woman doesn't like a fireman? )

Have some faith. Not every Thai public official is corrupt. Some really do have a heart and do care about people.

had mine factory fitted and it can be used in english or thai. all map names are in thai but english can be used for favourites names and and instructions are in english

I think we need lots of pictures to help us really understand the issue at hand here - lol

And the survey was done in Japan!!! where men buy used schoolgirl panties and the busiest fantasy sites are about having sex with schoolgirls.

Ask someone who doesn't have a schoolgirl fetish to start with to get a real understanding of the issue here as someone else has said - control and repression is the driving motivator.

The real message here is: never let your media be censored, corrupted, or owned by Rupert Murdoch [which is essentially both the earlier outcomes in the same package].

As long as the media is prepared to report accurately and fairly, to criticise those who do fail or are corrupt no matter which side they are on, then democratic principles will flourish and the people will be able to make sound decisions when they vote.

If the media fails in its responsibility then the people are in big trouble.

No need to buy a Blackberry for your companies security anymore. IF Blackberry complies with Thailand's ultra low standards than the servers are accessible in Bangkok by each and everyone who wears even a piece of a uniform of who has bought a badge.

I think you've missed the point: what it implies is that to comply with Thai surveillance laws, backtrack logs have to be kept by every phone carrier company and made available as required by the Thai government on demand. Blackberry escaped that because it's logs are held in Canada. Now the Thai government is requiring access to those logs as a condition of allowing Blackberry to operate in Thailand. So every phone in Thailand operating on a Thai network is already compromised.