Ricardo

Where is the opposition party in all this?

Just silence, no calls for resignations, no claims against the government.

That is strange because Chalerm is very outspoken.

Have Puea Thai given up on him?

Abhisit also stayed fairly low-profile, during the PAD-protests, making the odd condemnatory comment on excesses, but keeping his hands clean, waiting until he was able to overturn the government's coalition to form one of his own.

Face it, the PTP are still fairly leaderless at present, perhaps this is a cunning plot of the military & elite, or more likely they're simply not very good at parliamentary politics. I suspect the latter.

I'm not so sure that he has the total backing of the Yellow Shirts, as you suggest, they're not particularly happy because he ignores many of their demands.

I would blame him for the failure to instruct the BoT to carry out a competitive-devaluation of the Baht against the US $, which I believe time will show, to be a seriously-damaging economic mistake. But I may be wrong.

Keep emotion out of it

because, YOUTUBE, CANNABISACTION and AMNESTYORG are reliable sources of information. Are there any visions of the airport being shut down a while back or the rural vote being repressed? What about all the other villains out there who have created acts far more outrageous than what you accuse Thaskin of doing? Are you going to go after them? Again, do all heads of state know what their organizations, police, military are doing? If he did know than he should be held accountable for hauling them into the courts. I am not full of poop, I just went to see a man about a hourse an hour ago...cannabis action, are you seriou?

Dear gbt71fa, I thought you were proposing to keep emotion out of it, seems like you forgot that.

Yes, but I also understand images of hijacked buses burning and rowdy mobs attacking government officials' vehicles with bricks and pipes and how these images tend to discredit certain former PMs who then claim in interviews that the military provoked violence against "unarmed peaceful protesters".

Indeed, but then they also see pictures of soldiers firing live ammo from assault weapons and the Thai Government trying to call it "crowd control".

Then a former-PM who was ousted in a military coup calling for a return to democracy.

Why didn't all those rounds of "live ammo" produce any visible casualties, could it possibly be, that the soldiers were using paper bullets as claimed ? The only two deaths reported thus far were as a result of Red-Shirt terrorists' actions.

And the former-PM, now calling "for a return to democracy", any relation to the PM who said that democracy was not his aim, when he was actually in power ? Thought so.

What he wants returning is 'his' money, not democracy or freedom.

The Army started this, prolonged it, meddled with constitutions and elections, lost the election despite the meddling, put the PAD upto overthrowing that government, turfed a PM out for cooking on TV and stood on the sidelines only to ensure the police did not disperse the PAD when Somchai proved more resiliant than he looked.

Then, they set up a militia

Sorry, when did the Army set up a militia ? If you're talking about the blue-shirts, I've read elsewhere that they may well be under Newin's private control, in which case they were surely part of the PPP/Red-Shirts until Newin changed sides in December ?

The last coup September 2006 was against a democratic elected government.

Please get your facts right, Thaksin when overthrown was an appointed caretaker-PM, the 2nd TRT government had been democratically re-elected in 2005, but Thaksin then called new elections for April 2006, which were flawed and annulled.

This has all been widely discussed many times on ThaiVisa.

Would any of the posters who previously portrayed the Red-Shirts as peaceful or unarmed, care to comment on their position following this latest event, an armed attack on Army HQ using molotov cocktails ? Time to call a 'protester' a terrorist, at this point, in my own view.

I too saw a UFO in Chiang Mai, about 2 weeks ago, and it was shaped like a giant hamburger, perhaps it was a collective hallucination by all the food-thread posters on TV's Chiang Mai forum ?

Why at this time ?

Because he has seen the new Democrat-led coalition-government continue with his populist policies, and knows that they will gain credit for this, as the realisation sinks in that Thaksin/TRT are not the only people who can help the poor ?

Because he sees his influence declining. as time passes, and especially when he has now been found guilty in a court, and his lawyers have failed in an attempt to buy justice. His reputation is becoming increasingly tarnished ?

Because he knows that the share of the vote he or his nominees would get has been falling, which is why he didn't order his brother-in-law to call a new election, while he still could ?

Because he is becoming increasingly isolated, Newin & his own wife have both abandoned him, this is having an effect on him mentally, and he feels it is 'now or never'. His power is drifting away from him ?

Because the recent black-magic ceremonies ensure that this time he cannot lose ?

Tick any/all of the above.

Where Samak and Somchai failed with dignity

Samak was found guilty of taking money, from a company which depended upon his government's goodwill for its profits, then lied about it in court, and when his coalition-governments MPs were asked to reconfirm him as the PM afterwards, was abandoned by them without a second thought. Sleaze and back-stabbing by his own side.

Somchai played golf & went to karaoke in Chiang Mai, while his government & the country fell apart, before the courts dissolved his party for electoral-fraud. He also failed to call a fresh election, when advised to, and never really got to grips with the job.

I hardly think you can accuse either one of failing with dignity.

Abhisit by comparison is still sober & serious, appealing for calm and trying to avoid the conflict escalating out-of-control, despite having been attacked in person in Pattaya & in Bangkok. He might not succeed, if the powers-that-be fail to support him, as the police clearly do not, but he certainly deserves to, and Thai democracy needs him to IMHO.

The demonstrators that took to the streets last year, and when the army took control in 2006, called themselves the People's Alliance for Democracy but their goal was not to secure more democracy, but less. The group believed the rural poor – who tend to support Mr Thaksin – were too uneducated to be involved in politics and that some MPs should be appointed. They were backed by business interests and ex-army officers.

Sorry, but I believe you are mistaken, the PAD were formed in 2005 (much earlier than you say) with many differing groups, all having the same over-riding objective of exposing Thaksin and TRT as not being quite all they claimed to be.

Following the coup some of their leaders began to speculate about reforms to the system, to improve the electoral-system, or make Thai democracy more resistant to Thaksin's efforts to water it down. Remember "Democracy is not my objective", from the man who now claims to be its defender, from the safety of Dubai or wherever ?

The interesting proposal to which you refer, which was never the unifying theme which some people claim, was an approach which yet might actually get some direct-representatives of the poor farmers/taxi-drivers/whatever into Parliament, something which has not been achieved by any side. Not that the theory was workable in the form outlined. But an interesting idea for discussion.

There is little doubt that the constitution needs further reform, this is agreed by Abhisit/Democrats/PAD/Red-Shirts/PTP, the problem seems to be getting the process underway, and bloody insurrection is most certainly not going to lead to a workable solution.

And the rural poor in many areas do not support Thaksin, as he was well aware, when he promised them that any provinces which voted against TRT need not hold their breaths, waiting for any government-support following his anticipated re-election. No wonder they don't like him !

Lastly, is there any political group in Thailand, which is not backed by business-interests or ex-military officers ? I doubt it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that seems to be the way things work here, thus far.

Why worry?

I am a fatalist, when my clock stops as it is scheduled, I will die.

Beit in a Boeing 777, or me bed, the curtain will fall.

But I personally would rather not be on the plane, when the pilot's clock stops, thank-you !

Reminds me of the old joke, "I want to die peacefully in my sleep, as my father did, not screaming in fear like the passengers on the bus he was driving".

Sorry, original post overtaken by events.

See the thread in the Travel forum, no trains this morning, out of Hualampong.

No need of coup because those who become PM after coups don't know how to develop Thailand. They are just big people in society after pleasing the ruling class. Most of them are not capable for PM job.

Koo, do you mean to criticise PM-Samak and PM-Somchai like this, I would have thought you would have supported the PPP-led coalition-government ?

Whatever I would agree that they were not capable of doing the job, pity it took a year to find this out, as that delayed the country's response to the developing global economic-crisis.

About time Thaksin jumped on a plane to lead the fighting, 'eh? Just like he promised.

Will believe it when I fuc_king see it.

That was 24 hours ago, when the first shots were fired, perhaps flights from Nicaragua are full or delayed ?

why stupid?, are these guys stupid too?

A group of 20 former army officers, senators and businessmen of Thailand on Monday offered a one-million-baht (some 28,600 U.S. dollars) bounty for the arrest of exiled former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who faced arrest warrant on corruption charges in Thailand.

They will be the first ones to go then.

But Thaksin, as a fighter for justice, will surely come home voluntarily to face his accusers, since he is undoubtedly totally innocent of all charges, or can afford enough 'lunch-boxes' to go round ?

I still find it creditable, that the reward was offered for his arrest, and not his assasination, Amazing Thailand !

While the logic seems inescapable, that riots and yet another State of Emergency ought to weaken the Baht on world-markets, this is Thailand and therefore one must expect to see the Bank of Thailand continue with its damaging policy, as exports & tourism & the local economy crumble. They do have the Reserves to be able to hold this line.

So I for one am not holding my breath ...

Love the double standards.

Home roost come chickens to. Anagram time

Chickens may come home to roost, but I somehow doubt Thaksin will do, after inciting this mess in his homeland.

As to double standards, I thought the governments stated preference to leave DTV on-the-air, rather than the kneejerk action of pulling anything they didn't like, was a step in the right direction. Pity that it turned out like this though ... another blow to hopes of more media freedom.

I must admit that seeing on TV pictures of that fat monk, hitting what he thought was the PM's car, clashed very much with the normal image one has of somebody who wears orange. Very disturbing. Hopefully his superiors will also have seen it.

It ain't going to happen. The red side does not have enough support - that is willing to carry on long term - and the present government is starting to copy Thaksin in order to get support from the poor. Also, Thais really don't want to fight each other if it can be helped.

Good calm common-sense from UG.

But it never harms, to keep your options open, so perhaps get your daughter's UK-passport sorted, which then gives you the option to hop over the Malaysian border with your family for a 90-day visit, should the need arise.

I myself take the more-expensive option of keeping all my dependents' UK and Thai passports current. Just in case.

The deposed prime minister said he will return to lead his supporters, if a coup takes place.

But hadn't he said before, he would return immediately to lead his supporters, once the first shot had been fired ? So where is he then ? Still sitting safe in the bunker ?

Well I maybe the first farang to be injured, my gf and I were in a taxi and going to a pub for dinner we past a heavily fortified house on Sukhumit 33, turns out it's the Prime Ministers house. The driver asked what I thought of him, I said that I think he is doing his best and should be given a chance, oh the injury, a jab in the ribs - I never learn.

'Friendly fire' claims yet another victim !

For once I agree with you, comparing Thaksin with Abhi is like comparing a great director like Kubrick or Spielberg to a good looking but mediocre actor like Tom Cruise.

Great dictator, not director, surely ? Where is Charlie Chaplin, when there's another great film, for him to make ?

Policemen have been putting on red shirts and joining the demonstrations.

Which perhaps explains their lack of action, down in Pattaya, as events unfolded ? But aren't the police & military supposed to be in real control, with Abhisit just their puppet, something doesn't add up with that theory.

If Abhisit opens fire on civilians, he's gone. He's gone anyways, just faster that way.

Civilians? Civilians don't break up international summits, civilians don't steal APC's, civilians don't cut off passage ways to hospitals. civilians don't take over roads and highways, civilians don't try to kill heads of countries, civilians don't run amok etc. With an SOE, these are no longer civilians. The enemy will be dealt with.

Perhaps by "civilians" Rainman really means the International Terrorists, currently running round wearing Red Shirts, and carrying pictures of their still-absent hero Thaksin ?

I would propose the creation of a new medal, in honour of their heroic deeds in Pattaya, to be called the 'Battle-of-Pattaya Non-Participants Not-Very Cross', this might be awarded with first or second-ranking dining-privileges, as appropriate ?

I passed (going into town) a parade of Red-Shirts (coming out of town) near the City Hall at about 2.30 this afternoon. Some 300 people with motorbikes & pickups, displaying pictures of Thaksin, were occupying both lanes north-bound, with a long tail-back of normal traffic behind them, as they moved towards City Hall.

Several of them were directing traffic at the intersection with the 2nd ring-road, since there didn't seem to be any BiBs in the area, must have been time for PC Plod's tea-break !

The mood seemed fairly good-natured.

Army Police & Civil Servents = Coulor Blue ????

Who the hel_l are the dudes in blue? They are intent on mixing it with the Reds so at a guess Pad paid heavies??

There's nothing like a State of Emergency, for bringing out the rumours, is there ? The PAD went home four months ago, and little has been seen or heard of them, since.

I think it was established on the Pattaya SoE thread, that the blue-shirts seem to be controlled by Newin, in some way. I agree that it's interesting to see this new group emerge from nowhere, perhaps it is part of his long-term party-operation, but that would make them ex-supporters of Thaksin/TRT/PPP/PTP wouldn't it ?

The situation is becoming more violent and out-of-control daily, which can't be good, hope that it cools off and nobody else gets hurt. But where is Thaksin in all this, didn't he promise to return immediately the first shot was fired, to lead his supporters on-the-streets ? So where is he then ??