Melpomene

".....why would any future election be any safer?"

Because they win time to implement "some" kind of reform, to overcome the division of the country and maybe make it a little bit fairer for all (without corruption).

Abolsutely, dear leader is announcing his plans for reform as we speak. In order that elections in Thailand are truely fair and respresentative of the good people of Thailand, he is proposing that the number of votes you are allowed is driven by the car that you drive :

• No Car = -10 votes
• Motorbike = -1 votes
• Pickup Truck = 0 votes
• Vios = 1 vote (unless you used the PTP tax break to buy it, in which case you will be classed as having No Car)
• Jazz = 1 vote (unless you used the PTP tax break to buy it, in which case you will be classed as having No Car)
• CRV/Fortuner = 10 votes (unless you live in Isarn in which case these will be classed as a farmers vehicle, so see pickup truck)
• BMW = 100 votes
• Mercedes = 500 votes
• Bmw & Mercedes = 10,000 votes
• Ferrari = 1000,000 votes

What better way is there to decide how worthy, special and truely educated someone really is ? These reforms are absolutely what is needed to make Thailand once again the land of the rich and privileged smiles.

Time and time again the research shows that vote-buying a) is used by all Thai parties and it doesn't work because c) Thai people vote for who they wanted in anyway.

So, unless by 'buying thier way in' you mean 'providing policies which appeal to voters' (terribyl undemocratic that is, isn't it?) then I would say that you're talking utter nonsense.

Absolutely - this idea Thaksin is only popular due to vote buying is ignorant in the extreme, and just the kind of headline the Dems trot out to excuse their incompetence as an opposition party.

All I know is it seems that the protesters were protesting the protester's right to protest their protesting, and so demonstrated against the counter-demonstration demonstratively, demonstrating that demonstrations were only demonstrating the demonstrations of everyone except those demonstrating countering views about the counter-protestor's counter-protestations.

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It finally happened! I have absorbed Thainess by osmosis!

That's the most logical description I've ever read of this mess

Have charges been laid against YK yet ?......didnt the army state catagorically that she was responsible if violence occurred ?

violence has occured....

You have an Interestng interpretation of the rule of law.

All the posters from western democracies when they get to Thailand chuck it out the window in support of coups, forgetting about their own roots. They are the worst kind of hypocrits!

My country has never had a government as corrupt and incompetent as this one. If it did, I'd want a coup there too.

No - they'd just get voted out at the next election...

The idea of 1 person 1 vote as an electoral panacea to Thailand ills is far to simplistic - both sides have been shown that with sufficient financial backing that this ideal is easily manipulated and corrupted.

And that is part of the problem, democracy or rather our western concept of democracy, for whatever multitude of reasons is a corrupted, broken system. It doesn't work here or at least not yet. Thai politicians simply have found a way to cheat the system and eventually the system fails and breaks as people get bored with the cheating and politicians who have become bigger and more important than the democratic system they claim to support, when in fact they actually run and control our democracy.

I'm not condoning Suthep but it seems there are two choices; maintain the current broken and corrupted democratic system. Or dismantle it and rebuild it and start again. And I'm sure all of us have our own views on what the possible consequences of each will be.

Maybe in 20 years Thailand will have matured enough and we will look back on the past 10 years as a period of 'growing pains for Thailand's democracy.

Edit - spelling

So what do you propose to replace democracy with ?

Replacing democracy is the wrong question.There needs to be some serous tweaking with the system. Starting with the MPs

I would start with abolishing immunity for MPs. Why do MPs need immunity? Immunity attracts dishonesty and criminality as it provides protection for their actions which often subvert the course of justice. MP - our leaders - should not need immunity as they should act to uphold the law in spirit and action.

Next do some serious legal amendment to the 'defamation' law. Often used as a weapon to silence critics whilst MP hid from behind their castle of parliamentary immunity. - I can hit you legally but you can't hit me back so to speak

Next - Freedom of speech in all aspects, so the media is free in all aspects from political interference and political censorship. So journalists can investigate our MPs and report back to the people/

Finally - Freedom of information - So MP and governments can hid information from the public under vague 'national security' banners.

The bigger issues of health, education,distribution of wealth etc all need addressing in good time

Most problems occur as MP are untouchable once into office and can do what they want. By the time the law catches up with them most of the evidence has been lost, destroyed, forgotten or bribed away and so they can continue. Which they do by cheating democratic system at election time with ridiculous promises, which they are then free to get away with as they are immune, don't need to provide information for, can sue you for defamation if you so something slightly out of sync with their view and so the circus continues until it reaches breaking point as it does with regular frequency.

So keep democracy, just changes the rules of the game for the MP we vote in so they understand their performance can and will be checked and they will be held to public account and scrutiny with real and meaningful sanctions. No hiding behind immunity.

edit spelling

Pretty much exactly what this country needs. If Suthep bothered to put so much thought into this as you have, instead of uttering his jingoistic rants, he would have a lot more credibility in the eyes of the majority.

Democracy at its finest. Well done The Nation!

Why should they relinquish power just because some failed, corrupt politician who can't win an election decides they should.

February 2nd sunshine. One person one vote...get involved!

Umm, because he has the support of the people. Did you see the pictures of the protests? It wasn't just him there standing on stage alone.

This isn't about Suthep. It's about getting the Shin clan out, more corrupt and failed politicians as you so well put it. They all need to go.

He has the the support of the minority of people.

The idea of 1 person 1 vote as an electoral panacea to Thailand ills is far to simplistic - both sides have been shown that with sufficient financial backing that this ideal is easily manipulated and corrupted.

And that is part of the problem, democracy or rather our western concept of democracy, for whatever multitude of reasons is a corrupted, broken system. It doesn't work here or at least not yet. Thai politicians simply have found a way to cheat the system and eventually the system fails and breaks as people get bored with the cheating and politicians who have become bigger and more important than the democratic system they claim to support, when in fact they actually run and control our democracy.

I'm not condoning Suthep but it seems there are two choices; maintain the current broken and corrupted democratic system. Or dismantle it and rebuild it and start again. And I'm sure all of us have our own views on what the possible consequences of each will be.

Maybe in 20 years Thailand will have matured enough and we will look back on the past 10 years as a period of 'growing pains for Thailand's democracy.

Edit - spelling

So what do you propose to replace democracy with ?

Scariest of all is the amount of people who believe this rubbish...

Uou are saying you do not believe the shinawatras are cheating the country blind? then i think you are blind.

Where did I say that ??

I expect the baht to be around 55.5 to the £ by the 13th…

The way it's going at the moment it's more likely to be 65.5 by then !

Do you not see the purpose of this article? It is one that calls for an end to the type of narrow minded, one sided, self destructive type of politics you are trying to promote here. It calls for reconciliation while you try to score points. I thought you might have thought more about the pictures/videos you post after that appallingly insensitive way you used the picture you posted yesterday. Seems I was wrong.

you are talking about reconcialiation with hardcore criminals? i guess its yellow sarcasm!

after bringing choas to thailand for years, you have the nerve to talk about peace?

after murdering 90 people 3 years ago and 9 this month, you just want forget it and start over like nothing did happen.

your yellow reconcialtion, you know where you can put it? put it deeply!

ps: please dont tell me what to do/ or not do, if i want to put picture and video, its my business not yours. Let people judge by themself! ...off

Well here's the thing Bender. You may well be right. However, if you are then the end game is almost certainly some kind of civil war of which I don't even want to imagine the consequences.

On the other hand of course, there is the possibillty that it is Bluespunk (despite his rather worrying moniker) who is correct to look for some form of reconciliation. Which if successful might just offer a way out of this mess without the need for further loss of life.

Seems a fairly easy decision to me...

You couldn't be more wrong. People who support the protest have clear idea why they do that. Thaksin is simply not wanted in Thailand. The current government miscalculated greatly. The amnesty bill galvanized Thais across the board. Thais will not allow Thaksin and his cronies to turn Thailand into another Cambodia. Innocent people will die, innocent people will get hurt but only because of Thaksin and his cronies attempts to privatise the whole country the way Hun Sen did it in Cambodia.

The root and the cause of all instability in Thailand is Thaksin. As simple as that. Suthep is just a pawn in the bigger game. Kind of Jatuporn or Nattawut but on the different side. If ever is going to be stability in Thailand, Thaksin needs to back off for good.

And still there are some who are completely ignorant to the reality of what is happening. Shouldn't you be out blowing your whistle with the rest of the brain-washed ?

If it is not to much bother to you two could you explain to me what Suthep's plans for the expat community are? I must have been napping when he gave out these plans of doom and gloom for expats.

Why is it no matter who is speaking they have bad plans for the expat community? Never good plans. Year after year yet nothing ever changes.

You need someone to explain to you why a facist government would be bad for immigrants ??

How does being a immigrant even affect the vast majority of farangs in Thailand, the vast majority of farangs in Thailand , read 99% of them are Not immigrants, being an legal immigrant infers some form of legal status.....ie PR, and in case of the Thai PR,s one suspects a "fascist" government will not be detrimental to their status in Thailand

I really, really hope you are right. Further more I hope attitudes amongst the PDRC such as that displayed in the OP come from a very small minority.

If it is not to much bother to you two could you explain to me what Suthep's plans for the expat community are? I must have been napping when he gave out these plans of doom and gloom for expats.

Why is it no matter who is speaking they have bad plans for the expat community? Never good plans. Year after year yet nothing ever changes.

You need someone to explain to you why a facist government would be bad for immigrants ??

yeah right! elected politicians will self-impose checks and balances, and turkeys will vote for xmas

Hence the need for a true separation of powers.

What is facist about wanting to bring back the checks and balances ? Making sure the government does not pull stunts again like the amnesty bill and how they went about it. That is the whole reason this all started.

I could not care less if they went after Suthep and put him in jail as long as they do the same for Taksin. I hold no love for Suthep but if he is the catalyst for change making corrupt governments more accountable I will be happy (does not mean he should walk a free man if he broke laws). Thing is without checks and balances and a strong anti corruption body this will happen again and again as the government thinks they can rape the country when they get voted in.

While they are changing things let them change the defamation laws too and get some good investigative reporters. I have no love for ANY corrupt government official democrat of PTP. But most likely they will be PTP (not because they are inherent more corrupt but because they are probably more likely to be in power)

I couldn't agree more. Every country in the world must have proper checks and balances and true separation of powers.

However, the truest check and balance of all is a free and fair election. Which is why, no matter what happens, the appointment of an unelected people's council can never be allowed to happen.

As for real investigative reporters and true free speech in Thailand - I long for the day when that becomes a reality, think we might be waiting for a long time though

If you truly believe that this country has anything like a 'democracy' as you know it in the West, you are seriously deluded. A ballot paper, bought or otherwise does not give a government the right to run roughshod over it's own country's Constitution, ignore it's country's Court decisions, all the while grabbing as much of it's country's tax payers' money and plotting to fill it's coffers with borrowed money with no transparency as to where this money is going. As another poster pointed out, try to imagine this happening in your country. You would still call it a Democracy? Pffft.

I understand this man's frustration. Many of you believe you're still living in Ohio/Basingstoke.

Democracy doesn't work in Thailand as a few old/new elites never allow it to.

The way to better quality politicians is to entrench democracy and the rule of law - not to abandon it altogether.

as irrational and emotionally immature his words may sound, they do represent the widespread attitude towards farungs many Thais seem to have, openly advocated by Suthep and his followers. It would be quite likely, once they get to power on the political vote-buying-military-coups-merry-go-round, that farung expats will get hard times ahead in Thailand.

Actually a lot of what is written sounds like a typical TV rant you see everyday, can't see what the problem is he is entitled to his opinion and some of what he says is true, Thailand IS full of farang losers

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Not only that i do feel that there are more then a few bias farang red reporters around. For me it still is a mystery how anyone with an education can support the shin clan and wants to hold back on reforms to get the checks and balances back.

I have yet to see a report from the foreign media how this all started because of the secret way they wanted to rush that amnesty bill through. Not causally mentioning it but telling how it was and how morally and financially corrupt this government is.

And I agree there are a lot of foreign losers in Thailand but that is a given.

It's quite possible to disagree with the facist agenda of Suthep AND want to see Thaksin brought to justice for all the wrong he has brought upon Thailand. It's blinkered attitudes such as yours where you are either with us or against us that is the bigget mystery of all.