Upcountry

Hey, folks, please allow Chloe to express her opinion. She's entitled to it.

Let's keep this thread about what people's feelings are about buying a hybrid or not, and avoid spiraling into the arguments that have turned the Global warming thread into a medieval cock fight.

In my opinion, hybrids are a stepping stone technology, improving mileage enough that if more people drove them, oil consumption would drop a lot more than just using regular cars. The theory behind improving mileage even by small increment makes a big difference over time for each vehicle, and makes a significant difference when a lot of cars get even slightly better mileage.

My readings about hybrids tells me that even with air conditioning in a hot climate like Thailand's, the mileage will be much better than that of an ordinary car.

Personally, I would want to get a plug-in hybrid, especially if the local power company can find a better way to produce electricity.

I'm still trying to figure out what percentage of kickback the dealer would want.

I think I'll ask my brother-in-law to help, but I'm not sure what to give him to help me.

Maybe flat rate, plus a small extra percentage based bonus, to motivate him to get as much as possible.

The car is in great mechanical shape, with low mileage ( I replaced a lot of important parts such as front end and fuel system, etc.) but there are a couple of cosmetic issues - smudge on a car door that won't come off, scratch on lower part of front bumper, and scratch on the shade film of one window. It's small stuff but my sense is that Thai buyers are highly sensitive to the beauty/face of a car (it's a 'BM so all the more so) and may not be willing to listen to condition as an argument for higher price.

So, despite having invested a lot in this thing, I may still have to sell it for the lower end of the price. Of course, going with a lower price will make sell faster too.

Interesting points, Robert,

I did a search on "Energy Minister is deceitful" (actuall "Energy Minister deceitful") and could only come up with this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ister+deceitful

Would you mind pointing us to the thread you want us to see?

Thank you, intumult,

I did figure out how to select my car and get some prices that agree to some extent with the other sites I've seen.

The frustrating part is that the car details on all the sites don't give enough detain to compare.

I can't tell if mileage and condition are factors affecting price.

This thread is a bit of in indication of how Al Gore's powerful if imperfect message is just a drop in the ocean.

Way too many people still view "green" issues as something they can just flick off their shoulder, or if cornered by them respond aggressively in self-defense.

Whether we have the time to spare or not, it will probably take a generation for the general attitude toward our environment to change, not to mention the technology and economics to support it.

I have voiced my gut reaction that Bangchak Petroleum's decision to drop 95 gasoline is a sign of a new market-driven trend that is independent of the current government policy (though the gov't decision to promote E20 is certainly key here - they just didn't ban 95 gas).

I'd really like to hear from other readers of this forum about this. Do you have good evidence to agree with me, or do you think this a sort of "isolated case"?

I'm looking for be best going rate I can ask for my car. So far, based on a web search, I have found the following links:

http://www.thaicar.com/en_boardquestion.asp

http://www.taladrod.com/BrwDir/MktPrc.aspx?mk=6&yr=3

Please excuse the data on these pages, it seems difficult, as a non-Thai reader, to find the tools to select make, model and year.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

UC

Thanks for your input, Moonfruit.

My bad that I posted twice, first in Motoring and then in General. I did this because, along with another thread I started, they didn't seem to me to have gotten set up properly. Should have asked the Mods first.

At any rate, the thread in General has had a few more responses, so it seems to be the default at this point.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=153757

Well, like it or not, it's time to sell my good old car before I can no longer by 95 for it.

I'm thinking about selling options.

One is to ask my Thai brother-in-law to help me.

Another is to ask a local dealer to help me.

The shop the sold me the car several years ago said they'd help us sell it, but I wonder what percentage I they would want from the sale.

I'd also like to give my brother-in-law a percentage for his trouble and to motivate him to get as much as possible. But I don't know what a good percentage would be. BTW, I can trust him.

Any advice?

The uproar happened a while ago, and the interim government canceled the previous plan to "ban" 95 octane gasoline.

What seems to be happening now is a market decision to drop 95. There's nothing, as far as I know, to stop all the other gas companies from dropping 95 in favor of gasohol other than availability (which was part of the reason for dropping the ban). The market speaks.

I've been unwilling to face it, but the next government (PPP?) is more than likely going to reinstate the ban on 95 anyway. Even if id doesn't gas companies are obviously going to look at the diminishing market for 95 (based on 95-only cars that can't handle gasohol).

As far as "recent manufacture", it depends on make for the most part. Some mid-90's cars can handle E10, but I don't know about E20.

UC

Ah, Jet! That's where I've been getting my gas!

Well, anyone know if scotch or cellophane tape is okay to use on the shade film on the inside of my car door glass? (serious question, because I don't know)

I need to compose "for sale" sign in Thai.

Firefox 2.0.0.9.

The problem didn't develop at the same time as my browser upgraded, and I don't see this problem with any other sites for forums.

Mai pen rai.

I wonder if anyone else is having this problem.

Starting a few months ago, whenever I post a new thread or respond to an existing one, the first time the page displays, the alignment is off. Currently, I have to refresh the page one or two times, at least, to get it to display correctly.

The first time this happened the page would display "centered". One refresh was enough. But now it displays right-aligned, and it seems like I have to refresh two times to fix it. The alignment is not just in posts, but nearly all text in the IPB interface.

Is there a IPB setting I need to change? When I post, as in this case, I do not play with alignment at all. I expect it to display left-aligned by default.

Thanks.

UC

I noticed today that I'm only subscribed to the Visa and General forums, not the Health, Body and Medicine forum.

I wanted to add the Medical forumand a few others to my list of subscribed forums.

I looked all over my control panel but couldn't figure it out.

Please advise.

Thanks,

UC

PS, my sense that others might not subscribe to the Medical area is what motivated me to post my new "Medical Procedures In Thailand, Trust it? Good experiences, problems?"* in the General forum area. I'm really interested in people's responses to this. Moving it to the Medical are will reduce readership and response. It really does seem to have a more general 'appeal'. So, mods, please consider moving it back to General. Thanks.

* http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=0#entry1652259

BTW, what do Bangchak Petroleum stations look like? What is the logo?

Is it the one with the green leaf?

I think I've been getting 95 at PTT.

For the Nation link, try this:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...amp;id=30056071

I've been able to buy 95 at some stations around my town, but with this new change, I think it's a kick in the A that I should hurry up and sell. Getting a fill-up on the highway has been tricky enough up to now.

And here I thought that the current (interim) government's kind turn for old car owners was the last word for a while.

Hybrid cars are going nowhere fast here in Thailand. You see them in Bangkok here and there, but Thai powers-that-be still have not done their part to make them affordable.

Let's say they do, so that a Toyota Prius can compete with other compact Toyota cars, and hybrid SUV's can compete with gas/diesel powered versions.

A. Would you sell what you have now and be the first to drive off the lot?

B. Would you buy one when it's time to get a new car?

C. Would you stay away?

Seriously (and, of course, not, for the punters ), what would go into your decision process for any of the options above, or anything else related to the notion of owning a hybrid car in Thailand.

Assuming that a lot of TV members see no point to driving a more energy efficient car, what would get you to buy a hybrid at some point anyway?

Congratulations, Bambi, and enjoy adapting to the local bicycle culture (unless you've spent a lot of time there already). ;-)

Hybrid cars are going nowhere fast here in Thailand. You see them in Bangkok here and there, but Thai powers-that-be still have not done their part to make them affordable.

Let's say they do, so that a Toyota Prius can compete with other compact Toyota cars, and hybrid SUV's can compete with gas/diesel powered versions.

A. Would you sell what you have now and be the first to drive off the lot?

B. Would you buy one when it's time to get a new car?

C. Would you stay away?

Seriously (and, of course, not, for the punters ), what would go into your decision process for any of the options above, or anything else related to the notion of owning a hybrid car in Thailand.

Assuming that a lot of TV members see no point to driving a more energy efficient car, what would get you to buy a hybrid at some point anyway?

Bangkok, Thailand, and other centers in Asia are becoming more and more accepted as good destinations for medical tourism.

Employers, Insurers Consider Overseas Health Care

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=16294182

Insurance companies are even paying for it, but there are also concerns about what happens if something goes wrong.

Yesterday's Post had more news about the Bio Clinic murders related to treatments gone wrong.

Ex-employee links Bio Clinic to fourth case

http://www.bangkokpost.com/141107_News/14Nov2007_news14.php

I've been feeling that one of the good things about living in Thailand is that if I chose or need some significant medical procedures I can afford to do it even if my insurance doesn't cover part or all of it.

So, I'm interested in your experiences with the big hospitals as well as provincially around the country.

UC

A couple of posts to this thread have mentioned the ozone hole and the fact that it has diminished in the last few years.

A decade or so ago it was determined that CFC's were a major cause of the loss of ozone over Antarctica. CFC's were gradually taken off the market, replaced with something else that may or may not be better overall. In recent years, we've seen a decrease in the ozone hole.

Please, someone, show us how it has been proven that the removal or CFC's from most applications has not had a positive effect on the ozone problem. I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but anecdotally at least it seems that this is an example of how changes to human behavior on a large scale has had a healing effect on the environment. That's what I've heard from newspapers and the "dreaded" BBC, etc.

Well, here are a couple of pros and cons:

1994: http://rous.redbarn.org/objectivism/writin...eDepletion.html

2007: http://www.epa.gov/ozone/science/sc_fact.html

Not the final word, I'm sure but interesting reading just the same.

Regarding the current global warming trend, sadly, is that regardless of any changes we make, the problem will not go away in a mere 50 years. Buckle your seat belt, we are in for a ride for the long haul.

To Thai TV members, in particular, what do you think of this?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/121107_News/12Nov2007_news17.php

OPINION / GENERAL ELECTION

Anti-vote buying plan appears doomed

It seems that a huge percentage of the Thai population accepts vote buying. This article assumes that the current plan to cut down on vote buying will not have the desired effect. What can be done? Do you agree with this opinion piece?

UC

Oh, and you may get a kick out of this (you'll have to listen):

Leave the Lights on for Batman

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=16182640

BTW, I forgot to add that it's actually interesting to hear the different points of view expressed, with links included.

Whether my mind is changed by any of this, I do feel better informed.

JetsetBkk, interesting math and point of view. Yes, both sides look for the most effective PR to get their point across.

Not to harp on Gore again, but his first book was much drier and detail oriented. So, he ended up putting together a more simple and colorful picture oriented version that got his points across more easily to a larger population.

Does the Kyoto Protocol ring a bell? It is the single defining case of governments trying to mandate extraction of money from the citizenry to "combat global warming" as if governments are more powerful than mother nature. It is nothing more than deception and arrogance, at the expense of the taxpayer. Then there's carbon footprint taxation, the whole ethanol debacle raising the price of corn so high that people who use it as a basic food source are having trouble making ends meet, and so on. Entire governments have propagandized the whole thing and are complicit in the propaganda for sheer political motives. All one has to do is walk around London for a few days and watch the BBC.

Why hasn’t the US signed the protocol, my friend?

Because big business, etc., won’t have it. And politicians are afraid it will affect jobs, the economy. There is no political will to accept it, so they make excuses.

One thing I hope will happen is that the marketplace will come up with effective and profitable solutions that make energy savings attractive to even the biggest "Hummer Lovers" who don’t believe that humans can hurt the environment.

There is reason to hope:

Gore Teams Up with Investors on Green Businesses

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=16227362

I have to say that I’m surprised at how negative this thread has gotten. I apologize to those I’ve offended with my reaction to what they said (Chloe82, for example). Nothing to be gained from that.

It is interesting to see how big a percentage of the expat (or TV) community is actively against the notion that global warming is caused in a big way by human activity. I think a good percentage of people will continue to rant against man-caused warming even when the science and condition of the world makes it impossible to deny. That’s human nature.

But you know what? It really doesn’t matter. Even if we don’t think our actions have an impact on the global climate, doesn’t it still make sense to find ways to stop using fossil fuels, and get away from unnecessary use of ethanol, especially the way it is currently produced? What about all the other forms of pollution we produce that if nothing else causes disease and death in the human population and animal/plant extinction? Isn’t cutting down the right thing to do?

One really good thing about the global warming scare is that is will speed up the transition to a post-fossil fuel society around the world.

Oh, I can’t finish without commenting on Dupont’s comment that those of us who are concerned about global warming, and what we can do about it, are somehow not enjoying life! In many cases, we may consciously be enjoying life more, having respect for it. I hope he did not imply that “having the time of our lives” necessarily includes wasting energy without a care, though he does sound selfish. That would be sad.