Poottrong

"a raw leftist like him is hard to come by these days."

Good. 

11 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

They should create an NGO and open this up to allow only foreign expat volunteers to run the program in it's entirety with a Thai government comptroller.

If that actually worked Africa would be full of first world countries by now.

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

I'm not really under standing what you are infering. Thai citizens have access to 15 years of compulsory free education(12 in the west )

It also has free healthcare, which I have been to some of the government hospitals, very nice service. 

As for running water, to my knowledge thailand has always had running water, we're not talking Ethiopia here. 

Thai standards also compare the wealth gap. More than 20 percent of the population is considered wealthy, compared to 2 percent in the west. Thailand is the 4th richest country in Asean .

I just don't see them as being destitute. 

In the maslo hierarchy of needs ( the UN evaluater )

They have sufficient shelter, schooling, healthcare and so on. 

I see many low income people. No different from the west. 

There is a big difference between poor and low income. 

Thailand has not always had running water. My wife grew up without it and her family did not have a toilet for many years in her youth. Same for her entire village. She spent years in Kong Toey slums with similar conditions for thousands of people. She left school when she was 12 as did all the other kids her age in her village. She slept under trucks at the wharf to unload containers. Her father slept under bridges when he was a labourer. This is not uncommon.

Have you visited the slums or any poor villages ? How about looking at the way millions of labourers live in camps throughout the country? Anything like that in the west? I just can't see how you can say "I see many low income people. No different from the west." The poorest people in the west live nothing like they poorest people do here except if you count homeless people in the west who are there through their own poor life choices or because they are mentally ill and they are only a tiny percentage of what is considered "the poor".

. 

13 minutes ago, greenchair said:

. 40 percent of Australian and around 60 percent of new Zealanders are living below the poverty line. 

 

The way poverty is measured in the west is in terms of how much poorer you are in comparison to the rest of society. It is not an absolute measure which measures things like access to 3 meals, running water, schooling etc. It is completely misleading, possibly deliberately so.

20 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Really ?? 

2 cars here.. Back there I drive a nice beemer, fraction of the cost of a low quality farm truck here.. 

Clothes, shoes, electronics, etc etc etc.. If your not buying chinese 'broke in a year' junk almost everything is cheaper back there.. Sure someone cleaning your pool, doing your garden / ironing / etc is cheaper here, labour is cheaper.. But things ?? Of quality ?? 

 

From my earlier post in this thread

"Rent - I pay less in a month than what I would pay in a week in Aus. Granted it's a smaller, cheaply made house but I'd happily live in the same back home if they were available. On top of that I can walk to the beach here. Renting or buying a house near the beach in Aus is only for the well off these days.

Utilities - way cheaper in Thailand

Fresh fruit, veg and meat - way cheaper in Thailand except for beef and lamb. I eat home cooked Thai food daily and doing the same in Aus costs a small fortune, which is what I would want to do.

Internet - way cheaper and faster in Thailand

Imported electronics and other imports - cheaper in Aus

Cars - cheaper in Australia although a "cheap ass toyota" is fine with me.

Petrol - about the same price I think?

Public transport / taxis - way cheaper in Thailand

So all in all Thailand is WAY cheaper for me than Australia. Not even close."

Mind you I'm not trying to duplicate a western lifestyle here which makes all the difference. Also, I haven't been to the US but I understand it can be a very affordable country.

4 hours ago, poohy said:

I think indifference is  a much better word.

 

I worked in BKK for 12 years then moved to rural Thailand south of Prachuap with Bangkok born and raised Thai wife.

Most of our both close friends and her family are BKK based

 

Local Thais are simply indifferent to both of us probably for different reasons ..

 

• Cant or scared to talk English or Thai to me
• Wifes from BKK so also an outsider in both culture eg farming /fishing and from what i see to certain extent language.

 

No real problems you just accept get used to it.

Yes indifferent is the right word. Indifferent and uninterested in outsiders and the outside world. When you think about it, why should they be obligated to be otherwise? It's wrong to mistake this for hostility. Like you say you just learn to accept it and get used to it. Don't become a farang frustrated and resentful suffering from Relevancy Deprivation Syndrome ?

39 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

It's called downsizing and a lot of people enjoy the experience of simplifying their lives

 

Why does a person have to move 10,000 miles from their home to a foreign land, language and culture to downsize?

 

Maybe because they like it here (or at least did when they decided to move) and/or there was a woman/women in the picture and they were quite happy to shed a lot of the costly materialistic stuff that was never really important to them in the process.

52 minutes ago, manjara said:

Just as bad, if not worse! (If you were a Thai doing it!)

I've not really met any thais I would call friends though, all are at the acquaintance level. I can't, and don't, complain about that, as my thai skills are not really up to a meaningful conversation! 

If a Thai went to the UK and only spoke basic English, it would be hard for people to bond with them too! 

Perhaps it's the circles that I'm involved in, but I haven't met many Thais that are actually interested in things non-Thai, though I guess they would have to speak some English to be able to express it to me.

 

Even with the language (I speak Thai well) you will still find it’s the same situation in regards to friendship.

1 hour ago, Don Chance said:

Just step on few toes you will see how quickly the tide changes.

And what happens when you do that in your home country?

For the people who say that Thailand has changed I wonder if it's actually they who have changed while Thailand has more or less stayed the same or changed only as much as to be expected over a long period. Seems to be in my case anyway.

22 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

I think you right on target there. I find it odd people will sell up their western lifestyle, move to Thailand and live in a one room flat or tin shack in Isaan because that is all they can afford, then jump and down trying to convince everyone how cheap it is.

 

I would say only a tiny percentage of farangs who live here do that. Exceptions don't make the rule.

5 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

 

What I was talking about, was ‘if’ you want to eat western food (not always), have good AC in your house, decent housing, then the cost of living isn’t that much different.

 

 

That may be true for the US (I wouldn't know) but not for the rest of the developed world.

5 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

One of them is in international school the other in the local catholic school. I'm not convinced either one is worse than what I hear and observe about schools in the West these days

 

You are not convinced? What facts do you have? Here is a fact. The company I work for employees 200,000 worldwide. Take a wild guess how many are from Thailand?

 

After having my kid at Prem International in Chiang Mai for years, came back to the USA and he was a year behind. Don't have to think, that is reality.

 

Apples to apples. You can live in Thailand cheap because everything you have is cheap. Price out a comparable western house you see for 6,000,000 baht plus here on TV. No where near the quality of the USA and not cheap either.

 

Honda's and Toyota's more expensive in Thailand unless you buy the cheap ass lowest end

 

Western food in Tesco? That is no bargain either

 

Compare apples to apples. Cheap is cheap no matter what.

 

As for savings, my company gives me an additional 65% of my 401k contribution each year.

 

If you have a couple hundred grand (US)  a year income, good on you. If not, living cheap like a Thai will get your there same as living in a tent in Yellowstone.

 

Apples to Apples. 

 

PS Thailand has sure changed a lot since I was there in 1985. Cannot even recognize the place through all the corruption, coups, materialism, wanna-be's

 

I have never been to the US but I have heard it has a cheap cost of living. Perhaps it can be considered an outlier among Western countries when having these kind of discussions.  Here's a comparison to Australia:

Rent - I pay less in a month than what I would pay in a week in Aus. Granted it's a smaller, cheaply made house but I'd happily live in the same back home if they were available. On top of that I can walk to the beach here. Renting or buying a house near the beach in Aus is only for the well off these days.

Utilities - way cheaper in Thailand

Fresh fruit, veg and meat - way cheaper in Thailand except for beef and lamb. I eat home cooked Thai food daily and doing the same in Aus costs a small fortune, which is what I would want to do.

Internet - way cheaper and faster in Thailand

Imported electronics and other imports - cheaper in Aus

Cars - cheaper in Australia although a "cheap ass toyota" is fine with me.

Petrol - about the same price I think?

Public transport / taxis - way cheaper in Thailand

So all in all Thailand is WAY cheaper for me than Australia. Not even close.

As for schooling, sounds like you have nice schools where you are in the US.  I'm definitely not thrilled with the schools here either but your original comment was "zero education" here.  The "reality" is that Australian test scores are dropping every year, incompatible migrants are going up, drug problems abound and the education system is riddled with leftist mumbo jumbo and silly educational fads. That said it may still be better than what we're getting here but it's by no means a slam dunk.

Yes Thailand has changed over the decades. I've been here for 20 years and personally I haven't noticed the corruption getting better or worse. For exapmple my local immigration office is infinitely better than the corrupt riddled shithole it used to be. Some changes in Thailand have been bad for sure, others have been better though too. I'm not sure my home country is a better place than it was 20 years ago either.

15 minutes ago, connda said:

If there is one country that engages in protectionism and excessive tariffs and duties, it's Thailand.  It would be appropriate for Trump to 'level the playing field' here and for other global exporters to follow suit.  Including Australia.  Like others have noted, show me the low-priced, tariff free Aussie retail goods lining the shelves of the markets.  Yeah, right!  ?

There is such a thing as Aussie-made retail goods? ?

27 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Thailand is full of unqualified teachers. I've seen all sorts of issues.  There are the odd few of dedicated ones.  I know one that is doing a brilliant job. He feels like there's room for improvement.  

 

I must admit it's been years since I was in South Korea, and Taiwan teaching.  There I got all the perks, Thailand offers zero. Wether the locals wanted to kill me,  I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea.

 

The acceptance of people and personal relations is a seperate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. 

 

Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. 

 

 

 

Thailand is still a developing country so it can't afford to have highly qualified English teachers throughout the entire education system. Korea and Taiwan are wealthier and so they can pay more and attract higher quality.

"I don't know what they really thought,  but business was very easy in Korea."

If you turn up to your Korean girlfriends place and tell the old man you would like to marry his daughter you will get an idea. Or try walking down the street with your arm around a Korean girl. God forbid if you happen to be black too. That said I find Koreans very nice people just...xenophobic and a bit racist. as is par for the course in Asia.

"The acceptance of people and personal relations is a separate argument. People will generally treat aliens not as their own no matter which countries are involved .  Fact of life. "

Yes but some countries more so than others. Asia and the Indian subcontinent are definitely way more xenophobic/racist than the West. In fact I'd say we currently have the opposite problem in the West.

"Yes Technology and basic processes also like rubbish collection.  Don't need high tech for that.  Just due disciplined process and enforcement that western countries use. "

Correct they don't need any  Western influence for that.

On 7/18/2018 at 12:13 AM, stud858 said:

 If they wanted to take care of their own population wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society. One example.  foreign teachers. They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts.

"wouldn't allowing more Western influence be better for improving things for Thai society"

Why would they feel that having more Western influence (apart from technology) will improve things?  I get the impression Thais like themselves as they are.

"One example.  foreign teachers"

What about them? The joint is full of them.

"They aren't very welcoming as compared to their Korean, Japanese, and Chinese counterparts."

Not true at all. Those countries are the same or possibly even worse on the xenophobia score card.

Apologies if this has been posted already (haven't read the full thread). Interesting breakdown:

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-story-behind-Elon-Musks-involvement-with-the-Thai-cave-rescue-effort

20 hours ago, timkeen08 said:

I personally first heard the pronunciation of the term "dawg" outside of these above parameters amongst the Black and Hispanic gangs portrayed on television and movies in America along with Rap music.Shortly after among youth of all races and nationalities trying to act like or to be Hispanic and Black hip wannabes.

 

Precisely. This was the gist of my original comment and subsequent follow ups. Kieran00001, however, for some reason, finds this awfully racist to point out. He also doesn't seem to think it's true which I find hard to believe.