BarryM

I stayed at a well known hotel in its "royal wing" in Pattaya during some bird flu/ SARS crisis or other.

Walking past reception on the last day of October they informed me that me room rate would increase the next day because it was "high season". Only five or so of the suites out of 82 were actually occupied.

Despite regularly using the hotel for 50 or so nights a year they wouldn't budge on the rate increase, so I checked out.

Plenty of other hotels and other countries to visit. Guess the ultimate goal of the thai tourist industry is just one person paying 100000000000 b a day to stay in hotels, eat, visit bars and rent jet skis.

The scale of the disaster is and will continue revealing itself to a group of incompetent politicians and experts, whose only qualification was being born with the right family connections.

The strains that will be placed upon Thai society will, I fear, test it beyond breaking point on all levels. Mediacl, social, political and economic. The propensity for this flood to precipitate unimaginable disorder and chaos is overlooked by micro focusing on the flood's causes and short fix remedies.

In short, this could turn nasty - really, really nasty.

Unfortunately, those pictures are making their way into the foreign press with headlines like "Bangkok Airport Flooded," scaring off thousands more tourists into canceling their plans to come to Thailand.

correct...and smartass CNN reported this morning on how 'miserable' the plight of all Bangkokians is because 'they are stuck and cannot travel out as the airport is flooded' after showing pictures of Don Mueang. Some very junior weatehr reporter woman added her own touch to the report by saying 'the airport is closed' and nobody bothered double checking her report before airing... this was around 11 am or noon this morning...Sad...

Thailand needs to ensure that facts are reported as to the true situation here. You certainly will not get this from broadcasters like CNN.

- nor from the government. If the Thai government can't communicate the facts, why expect CNN to to better?

There's plenty of investors in Thailand who did not fully understand the "cultural differences" when they signed on the dotted line; the lack of level playing field, HR limitations and sheer corruption that is endemic in the country. Now their net asset value here is written down to practically zero, don't be surprised to see many of them relocating to neighbouring countries.

Japanese investors aren't stupid though. They generally don't commit unless there's huge profit margins involved. I'm sure they are well aware of how corruption works in SE Asia probably much better than European investors.

I can only speak from experience of a large Taiwanese manufacturer with production in Vietnam and China. They would switch to Vietnam tomorrow and are fully aware of "Asian culture". Their Thai assembly plant is near Laem Chabang, so they have not been directly affected by the floods. If they could write off their investment here, they'd be gone.

There's plenty of investors in Thailand who did not fully understand the "cultural differences" when they signed on the dotted line; the lack of level playing field, HR limitations and sheer corruption that is endemic in the country. Now their net asset value here is written down to practically zero, don't be surprised to see many of them relocating to neighbouring countries.

don't know what TAT is doing, but some hotels are out there promoting now, this link just came from Bangkok Air and Marriott...

hotel deals

I could exactly tell you what they are doing...or not doing!

But since I work in "the industry", I would rather not do that publicly...

It's a cheap deal to pressure sell a timeshare. Read the conditions - married couples only/over30 and must attend a "90 minute" sales presentation.

Not sure if this is related to Thailand arrivals - i just booked a weekend in KL. Flight on TG showing virtually empty on seat plan and Mandarin Oriental offering a stay one night, second night free including wifi, room upgrade, breakfast and an afternoon tea for two for about 6300 baht including tax for the two nights.

Cheaper to stay in KL than Bangkok........

The administration has little credibility. They persevere   in trying to convince the world that it'll all be ok. You can gild a turd and tell people it's a gold brick. Works for the locals, sadly it doesn't wash with the rest of the world.

Meanwhile TAT is a job club for well connected hisos, expecting anything like commercial common sense is a bit of a stretch.

It's still not clear whether Swampy airport is safe. This is the government that said Bangkok was safe. Leadership in the land of smiles is a factor of birth and the ability to carve up the 20% take. As another poster said, why should a family who have saved all year have confidence to trust their time and money to these people?

In extremis a sprite or coke (stir or shake out the gas) with a large pinch of salt is a great rehydration treatment if no access to safe water or rehydration salts/solution

I understand from my friend in Pattaya that among the refugees from Bangkok there are a fair number of young ladies who work in the "Entertainment Industry". With floods disrupting the high season and the general dearth of customers for the Pattaya beer bars and Gogo clubs I think this is liable to produce a fair amount of friction with the local working girls. The supply and demand ratio looks set for a fair amount of disruption over the next week or two!

Hopefully the reduction in market price of some things will offset the increased prices for others. Aren't markets wonderful things?

I've got a family of five arriving this afternoon who I barely know - their daughter is a sales rep for a company I once did some business with. They can't find (and most likely afford) hotels. I do hope they are house trained!

Any thoughts on how to deal with this? I don't want them to treat my maid as their maid - should I set some ground rules when they arrive about cleaning up after themselves and doing their laundry etc? Plan to send them off to buy their Thai food at the local market with my maid when they arrive. I have cupboards full of western food to last me 3 weeks. My reason for asking is Thai seem to have a remarkable sense of entitlement that I need to keep in check if my own food is going to last this out.

I hope you are not their maid. Treat them good and they stay for ever. Remember this will make you wife happy andthat is what we are for.

Bloody hell. there's eight of them!

good luck you going to need it, you are rich farang they are entitled to anything that is yours. ground rules yes but re-emforced every day

They seem like a nice bunch. There's a five your old girl who's a bit wary, but can't be much fun seeing your local streets and home under water. The landlords nosey "managing agent" (German) who lives two doors away has kicked up a fuss about having eight Thais in the house - &lt;deleted&gt;! I live alone in a six bedroom house with my maid in her maid's house in the garden. I told him to <snip> off and gave a month's notice to leave to sweeten the pill. Plenty of empty houses in the same mooban for the same or less money.

They seem quite happy on three double mattresses in two rooms, I offered to move downstairs and give them the first floor with four bedrooms, but they seem OK as they are. Jeez, that neighbour is a prize to55er sometimes.

Ate there a few times and gave up. Better value, food and service in plenty of other places.

I've got a family of five arriving this afternoon who I barely know - their daughter is a sales rep for a company I once did some business with. They can't find (and most likely afford) hotels. I do hope they are house trained!

Any thoughts on how to deal with this? I don't want them to treat my maid as their maid - should I set some ground rules when they arrive about cleaning up after themselves and doing their laundry etc? Plan to send them off to buy their Thai food at the local market with my maid when they arrive. I have cupboards full of western food to last me 3 weeks. My reason for asking is Thai seem to have a remarkable sense of entitlement that I need to keep in check if my own food is going to last this out.

I hope you are not their maid. Treat them good and they stay for ever. Remember this will make you wife happy andthat is what we are for.

Bloody hell. there's eight of them!

A little sad this post. The poster has a chance to become real friends with a Thai familily who will without doubt repay his generosity in giving them a few square metres of floor many times over. Sadly his atitude already seems to show this will not be the case.

A bit judgemental.

I sms'd a few Bangkok contacts (mostly employees of companies I have dealt with) yesterday to offer my home if they needed shelter from BKK. Sure - I live in my priveleged expat bubble in large house with pool. I've never lived so close to locals before and was hoping for some constructive advice on how to make them comfortable without being overly taken advantage of. I scarcely know these people (arriving in 1-2 hours), except the daughter who helped on some technical issues in her role as technical after sales support for her BKK employer.

Do I have to tell the parents to ask their kids not to piss in the pool?

Should I organise a separate cooker for them so they can cook their food?

Get an extra fridge? (mine is full of western food)

Set some ground rules about them receiving visitors to the house?

My maid is a real gem and I don't want them to treat her as their skivvy/ maid. I'm quite aware of how status concious some Thais are.

Any other advice?

I've got a family of five arriving this afternoon who I barely know - their daughter is a sales rep for a company I once did some business with. They can't find (and most likely afford) hotels. I do hope they are house trained!

Any thoughts on how to deal with this? I don't want them to treat my maid as their maid - should I set some ground rules when they arrive about cleaning up after themselves and doing their laundry etc? Plan to send them off to buy their Thai food at the local market with my maid when they arrive. I have cupboards full of western food to last me 3 weeks. My reason for asking is Thai seem to have a remarkable sense of entitlement that I need to keep in check if my own food is going to last this out.

I hope you are not their maid. Treat them good and they stay for ever. Remember this will make you wife happy andthat is what we are for.

Bloody hell. there's eight of them!

I've got a family of five arriving this afternoon who I barely know - their daughter is a sales rep for a company I once did some business with. They can't find (and most likely afford) hotels. I do hope they are house trained!

Any thoughts on how to deal with this? I don't want them to treat my maid as their maid - should I set some ground rules when they arrive about cleaning up after themselves and doing their laundry etc? Plan to send them off to buy their Thai food at the local market with my maid when they arrive. I have cupboards full of western food to last me 3 weeks. My reason for asking is Thai seem to have a remarkable sense of entitlement that I need to keep in check if my own food is going to last this out.

Well that's good news. Bangkok may be about to become a disaster zone, flooded by 1-2 meters of water mixed with raw sewage, 50 years of unregulated industrial waste, the rotting carcasses of thousands of decomposing animals, snakes and crocodiles with the last dry patches occupied by packs of stray underfed and diseased dogs. Its population at risk of Cholera and various ailments to which the elderly and children will be particularly vulnerable - made worse by uncertain access to safe drinking water, shelter or food. But at least the Banyan Tree Pool Villas will be busy and life can go on as normal (as long as you have the 800 US ++ a night to spare).

Mata Hari restaurant ran out of Osciettra at 2135 last night. This is getting serious.

Thai people know what is going on

but they do not seem to care

The wool has been pulled over their eyes for so long ... they are immune to it

As long as people vote for who ever gives them the most money ... Thailand will be a banana republic

Thailand is a country where the rich get richer ... and the poor are happy to have rice for dinner

It's not a Republic. It's a Monarchy.

With the possibility of hundreds of thousands of displaced, penniless and potentially hungry Thais arriving in Pattaya from Bangkok over the coming days and weeks, foreigners are well advised not to underestimate the pent up contempt and dislike of many of them for "farang" and their propensity to extreme violence.

Be careful out there.

The "travel shops" are hit by the drop in western tourists who travel independently and buy onwards tickets and tours whilst in resort. On top of this, the expat population will have found that airfares are now generally more expensive when they originate in Thailand. I am not alone in now buying my tickets in Cambodia or KL, to the detriment of a really helpful travel agent opposite Friendship market in Pattaya. But her fare to London on Thai (F) is 190,000 baht. I can buy the same ticket when I visit Cambodia for 150,000 b, which also gives me a a PP/BKK return.

"Which also gives me a PP/BKK return."

So when you purchase a ticket while in PP, are you buying a BKK-LON return ticket or a PNP-LON return ticket that transfers in Bangkok? And you discard the final BKK-PNP leg in the return?

The PP ticket from the Thai office is a 1 year ticket for $4980 usd that allows unlimited both ways stopover in BKK. At the moment I still have a BKK - PP "coupon" in hand (it solves the problem of needing an onward ticket ex BKK when checking in at London FWIW. I only travel for leisure these days, so as long as i schedule PP trip before I go to London again I simply buy a new ticket when back in PP. I'll have a few days in Siem Reap next month, so will buy a London ticket whilst in Cambodia and travel to BKK via PP. Yes, no harm in not using the BKK-PP leg, although you have a year to do so. The TG platinum card gives access to the TG F lounge even when travelling economy or business, so it's a nice way to travel for a few days away - check in 2-3 hours before departure and have a decent meal with good wines watching a DVD in the private TV room. You also get the extra ROP miles for the BKK-PP legs.

Travelling 3-4 times a year and F fare ex PP works out an average of 115,000 baht return using accumulated redemption on the half price Gold/Platinum promotion and a free annual upgrade (meaning I just buy the J fare). Not a bad deal. Firts class travel is rarely worth the massive premium IMO, but 25-30k baht extra per leg makes it more affordable.

Allot of information there...so if I understand correctly, you buy a [business class?] one-year ticket for unlimited travel between PNP-LON for US$ 5k, which of course passes through BKK (and allows for stop-overs). What would this ticket cost if purchased in Bangkok for the BKK-LON routing? You kinda lost me on the half-price and annual upgrade stuff but more interested about the savings of buying tix in PNP vs. BKK.

$5k us buys you a Thai first class RT from PP via BKK to LHR with unlimited time stop in BKK both ways (1 year ticket). A TG first from BKK - LHR costs 190,000 b if you buy it in Thailand/ originate in Thailand - ie $6300 us. So you save $1300 us, plus get a free trip to PP if you buy them back to back.

Thai frequent flier program gives gold/platinum a free upgrade each year if you do the miles. So once a year I buy business (about 110 k baht in PP) and travel first. Also the mileage works out that around 1 in 5 trips gives enough points for a free return in first.

Averages out (assuming four trips a year) to something like 115k baht PP-BKK-LHR-BKK-PP

I remember my students in my social studies class here in Ratchaburi last year laughing when we were discussing the Haiti earthquake. I wonder what they're thinking now.

Gloating over the prospect that your former students are now getting their "comeuppance" with this flood demonstrates why you do not belong in the teaching profession. I hope you're no longer in that school. Being vengeful and wishing harm on schoolchildren? Yours takes the prize for the most wicked post I've yet seen on this board.

Hold on a bit, I dont read goldcountry's post like that. It seems to me he is simply pointing out that kids that were laughing over someone else's plight may just start to understand that it can happen to anyone, it might make them a bit more sympathetic. I don't see anywhere that he is being vengeful and wishing harm on schoolchildren, quite the contrary.

+1.

What is it with quite a number of TV members and teachers? Teachers seem to touch some kind of raw nerve here that I don't understand. [i'm not one myself but hold no vengeful feelings towards them].

Perhaps it's beacuse their interactions with the local population extend beyond paying them (usually a premium) for goods and services and receiving a smile in return, reinforcing the image of "a lovely, gentle and charming people" - thereby giving them an realistic insight into the Thai's true value system and culture.

Between floods, partly caused by lack of any ENFORCED rules about land development , rip-offs and scams heard about world wide, and Pro-Con Shinawatra Clan power games/rioting, and mismanagement in office, 3-4 years of toursim High Season business has been killed deader than the unknown soldier.

It's truly saddening to see this, because it's always the little people, the hotel staffs and general workers who get hit the worst. You know the ones who are actually really nice to you every day.

I have a few friends who have travel shops in Bangkok & Pattaya .. They are finding it real difficult due to all the problems over the years here... They have no help what so ever from the government plus the government said when pad shut the major airports down they would help but that really did not happen banks also said they would help but due to outstanding loans they had it would not happen an then along the lines the government said we will sort that out mai pen rai even said the something when we had the riots over here but that really only happen for the major companies it also doesn't help these days with online bookings as you don't need to go to a travel shop ? So as you can imagine things are really hard these days for these people... :jap:

The "travel shops" are hit by the drop in western tourists who travel independently and buy onwards tickets and tours whilst in resort. On top of this, the expat population will have found that airfares are now generally more expensive when they originate in Thailand. I am not alone in now buying my tickets in Cambodia or KL, to the detriment of a really helpful travel agent opposite Friendship market in Pattaya. But her fare to London on Thai (F) is 190,000 baht. I can buy the same ticket when I visit Cambodia for 150,000 b, which also gives me a a PP/BKK return.

"Which also gives me a PP/BKK return."

So when you purchase a ticket while in PP, are you buying a BKK-LON return ticket or a PNP-LON return ticket that transfers in Bangkok? And you discard the final BKK-PNP leg in the return?

The PP ticket from the Thai office is a 1 year ticket for $4980 usd that allows unlimited both ways stopover in BKK. At the moment I still have a BKK - PP "coupon" in hand (it solves the problem of needing an onward ticket ex BKK when checking in at London FWIW. I only travel for leisure these days, so as long as i schedule PP trip before I go to London again I simply buy a new ticket when back in PP. I'll have a few days in Siem Reap next month, so will buy a London ticket whilst in Cambodia and travel to BKK via PP. Yes, no harm in not using the BKK-PP leg, although you have a year to do so. The TG platinum card gives access to the TG F lounge even when travelling economy or business, so it's a nice way to travel for a few days away - check in 2-3 hours before departure and have a decent meal with good wines watching a DVD in the private TV room. You also get the extra ROP miles for the BKK-PP legs.

Travelling 3-4 times a year and F fare ex PP works out an average of 115,000 baht return using accumulated redemption on the half price Gold/Platinum promotion and a free annual upgrade (meaning I just buy the J fare). Not a bad deal. Firts class travel is rarely worth the massive premium IMO, but 25-30k baht extra per leg makes it more affordable.

Between floods, partly caused by lack of any ENFORCED rules about land development , rip-offs and scams heard about world wide, and Pro-Con Shinawatra Clan power games/rioting, and mismanagement in office, 3-4 years of toursim High Season business has been killed deader than the unknown soldier.

It's truly saddening to see this, because it's always the little people, the hotel staffs and general workers who get hit the worst. You know the ones who are actually really nice to you every day.

I have a few friends who have travel shops in Bangkok & Pattaya .. They are finding it real difficult due to all the problems over the years here... They have no help what so ever from the government plus the government said when pad shut the major airports down they would help but that really did not happen banks also said they would help but due to outstanding loans they had it would not happen an then along the lines the government said we will sort that out mai pen rai even said the something when we had the riots over here but that really only happen for the major companies it also doesn't help these days with online bookings as you don't need to go to a travel shop ? So as you can imagine things are really hard these days for these people... :jap:

The "travel shops" are hit by the drop in western tourists who travel independently and buy onwards tickets and tours whilst in resort. On top of this, the expat population will have found that airfares are now generally more expensive when they originate in Thailand. I am not alone in now buying my tickets in Cambodia or KL, to the detriment of a really helpful travel agent opposite Friendship market in Pattaya. But her fare to London on Thai (F) is 190,000 baht. I can buy the same ticket when I visit Cambodia for 150,000 b, which also gives me a a PP/BKK return.

^ same in Villa, except for water. Had to make do with Evian and San Pelligrono.

The worst of the flooding is still to affect Bangkok. Hudreds of thousands of Bangkok residents, possibly far more, are likely to be displaced unless the government can arrange an efficient emergency food /water distribution and accomodation. It's not unreasonable to assume many of these will make their way to Pattaya.

The wealthier Bangkok Thais will be able to find accomodation, after all many own condos in Pattaya. Nevertheless uncertain supply lines will inevitably mean empier shelves and increased prices for food. at markets and supermarkets.

If large numbers of poor Thais migrate to Pattaya in search of food/shelter and the means of earning some cash, we might well see some pi##ed of, hungry Thais in the next week or two. Add the growing resentment of poor Thais , towards the wealthy elite and I see big trouble. Several expats i spoke with today are thinking the same way so expect the problem to be exacerbated by food hoarding and panic buying.

Unless the government takes major, decisive action for shelter, food and water this could kick off big time into civil unrest. When that happens, staying at home and keeping a low profile will be very, very wise. Things can go downhill very, very quickly when food gets scarce or unobtainable.