lukamar

Absolute garbage! Speak to any regular Thai and they all say Thaksin is OK. This has just been a witch hunt from day one.

I still don't know exactly what he's done wrong. A lot of the members on here who have been in Thailand for 5 mins all jump on the band wagon. Those who've been here a bit longer remember the pre-Thaksin days.

Anybody want Chuan and the Democrats to come back...???

He may not been perfect but this country was ticking along nicely when Thaksin was in charge. The top officials had their corruption payments stopped an all got the gripes, hence the witch hunt!

This country is slowly killing itself internationally from within.

"Backpack, News At Ten, Kanchanaburi"

A few members who have been in Thailand for a bit longer than 5 minutes remember the 2500 extra judicial deaths under Thaksin. Quite how this fits in with the country ticking along nicely is a bit beyond me.

I was also in Thailand during the time of the extra judicial deaths and no one in the North cared a hoot. In fact they were quite glad that the drug problem was being addressed and they did not care how or by whom. From our western view it was wrong, from their view, on the ground, it was right. I had some of the people involved sitting in my garden talking about it, I've stated that before, few here have had that luxury but they talk like they have the word from the horses mouth.

Backpack is right in a lot of ways, but a lot depends on where you are talking to the people and what level of society they live. Thailand is continually shooting itself in the foot and although a lot of people, primarily in the city do not like Thaksin, in other areas he's looked on as a good guy. If everyone hated him, like a lot of posters here keep saying, the CNS would not have bothered to go to the great lengths it has to eradicate him.

While assassinating him would solve a short term problem for the CNS it has to be aware that the north and northeast may go the way of the south if that happens. It's hard to fight against a martyr, no matter how corrupt you may say he is. The other thing that is different with this coup and others is that Thaksin and the TRT have not rolled over like the ones in the past and the CNS does not want them to have any chance of recover in the foreseeable future as the CNS would then become the hunted in a strange roll reversal. This is a very serious power play and no one concerned really gives a darn about Thailand no matter what they all say.

better read up on the term curfew

Yes you should...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source

cur·few /ˈkɜrfyu/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kur-fyoo] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun

1. an order establishing a specific time in the evening after which certain regulations apply, esp. that no civilians or other specified group of unauthorized persons may be outdoors or that places of public assembly must be closed.

As for the curfew declaration, he says it will be implemented once violence and situation in Thailand are at its vulnerability.

we can only pray ,

that he did not say that verbatim .

So they only have a spot curfew...

"Security at army headquarters has also been stepped up from today to June 24. People and reporters are banned from the area after 7 p.m. for these 10 days as the anti-coup group plans to move their rally from Sanam Luang to the headquarters on Saturday. BKKPost'

Still it's a mystery - why would they send a note in the first place?

Maybe they are dumb than dog poo.. but it does not make any sense to leave a paper trail.

Everyone has taken it for granted that it was setup by the TRT for an acquittal, it may have been set up by someone seeking a guilty verdict. No one has actually said.

Hmmm...there are Generals, Officers and 'military' servants...who are mainly from poorer N/NE areas....just thinking.

LaoPo

An astute observation. By Sonthi's own admission, some months ago, 70% of the military are from the North and Northeast. You have to assume that the majority of them are also from families or poor areas that support the TRT.

note ... we are currently under a government that was endorsed by HM.

So was the one before that (Thaksin's), and every one before that for the last 60 years. So what's your point?

you need to read up on Thailand's history ... this is NOT Canada

No it certainly is not Canada. It appears you can't put up any kind of intelligent discussion without continually bringing my nationality or where I happen to live at present into the mix. I have business interests in Thailand and also in Canada. My wife and son are Thai. While they happen to live in Canada, Thailand is much more their country than it ever will be yours and you belittle them by attacking our residence at every chance. I don't attack your nationality or where you live or why you live there. You on the other hand probably have nothing useful to do with your time.

I think you have it backwards. Thaksin was democratically elected. The dictators in this story are the ones demanding that his assets be frozen. How any country could take this order seriously is beyond me. My son and wife took advantage of the 30 Baht health care system. Thank you very much. Shame on those who think poor Isaan Thaksin supporters dont know any better because they are not intelligent enough to understand he is a bad man. Yeah right. Perception is reality. If these folks felt better off with Thaksin in power then guess what? They probably were.

Welcome to the Pro-Thaksin you must be being paid off crowd....LOL If you haven' been accused of that yet, you will be soon. BTW - I agree with you, just because someone is poor or does not have an education does not mean that they are stupid. There are enough educated people that are very thick to go around already.. .

a few people that have inspired suicidal followers...

Forgot one.....

sriracha john

so what? Many dictators have been elected ... often it takes real action to dislodge them

Should that action be by an "X" at the ballot box or tanks in the street. Tanks in the street just exchange your dictators. The problem with Tank based dictatorships is, you can't get rid of them unless you get a bigger tank, the "X" does not work in tank based systems.

Well if his stash is in cash they can always do what they did in the Philippines. When Marcos had a stash they reprinted all the money with a new design and require that the old notes to be turned in to the government directly to be exchanged. Then they made obsolete the old notes. It’s a bit like an ice fisherman waiting for something to come up for air.

I guess you did not ever get to the Marcos compound in Honolulu, or you would know that it did not matter what bills they reprinted. He had green backs, lots of them...LOL

I suppose you think police are being violent when they stroll the streets with guns in their holsters.

There is a big difference between police on the street doing their everyday job, and military tanks and troops in TV stations and newspaper offices perpetuating an atmosphere of fear. Spin it as you wish but there has never been any police driving around Bangkok in a tanks overthrowing the government.

It depends on how they choose to exercise their preference.

If they prefer to use premeditated, violent measures, then the answer to all these questions IMO would be an unhesitating YES.

Tanks and troops, armed with M16s, in the streets wasn't a violent measure.? It sure was.

There are alot of people in the north who prefer Toxin and assume that its not going to happen any time soon...and a common comment from them is that with the army making the gov't Thailand has become just like Burma....frankly they are miffed that their votes don't count.

That's exactly what I get from family and friends in your area and also Phayao. There are people, normally in the city, that can not fathom that as much as they hate Thaksin and the TRT, there is a whole other group that harbors the exact opposite position.

The coup although it may have been illegal, it was justified and supported by the top down and by the Thai people with enough education to see what was going on.......

Perhaps you should read the latest ABAC poll it Shoots the Sh*t out of your argument.

ABAC POLL

Survey finds city people can tolerate corruption

ANJIRA ASSAVANONDA

A opinion poll which concludes Bangkok people don't really believe honesty is always the best policy shows a worrying decline in the morality of Thai society, Deputy Prime Minister Paiboon Wattanasiritham said yesterday. The Abac Poll surveyed 2,506 people in Bangkok and nearby provinces and found that more than 70% of them were ready to ''accept'' a corrupt government if it would improve their own well-being.

The results were released yesterday, a day after Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont addressed the nation in a TV broadcast, calling on all Thais to help rid the country of corrupt politicians.

Sponsored by the government's Centre for the Promotion of National Strength on Moral Ethics and Value, the survey was aimed at examining the morality of Thai people.

Worryingly, the poll also found that 90% of the respondents accepted that they were more afraid of losing money-making opportunities than anything else.

About 83% said they were even ready to violate social regulations if necessary.

Generally, men were less moral than women, while the morality of youths aged 18-20 was lower than the other age groups, the Assumption University poll concluded.

When educational background was taken into consideration, the survey showed that people with only high school or high vocational level education were morally better than those with a higher education.

The survey had focused on the six indicators important for monitoring morality _ discipline, responsibility, honesty, conscience, diligence and acts of giving.

Mr Paiboon, the minister for social development and human security, said the survey's findings will be used as a tool for addressing and tackling problems associated with morality.

''Its findings that a majority of people can accept corruption is worrying. It shows how people look at things with a narrow perspective and short-sightedness, which is dangerous,'' he said.

Corruption, he said, can be poisonous in the long term, even for people who have benefited from it. It will finally lead to social and economic decline.

''An influential figure may use corruption as a means to build up his popularity and make people feel they are better off with more money in their pockets, but that's not sustainable. A strong foundation for social and economic growth only comes from true goodness,'' he said.

The government has already approved the National Morality Promotion Bill, which would enable it to build a more responsible society.

In order to speed up the process, the cabinet also plans to issue a Prime Minister's Office regulation to encourage moral behaviour in every government agency.

Narathip Phumsap, director of the centre, said seven more surveys will be conducted in the same areas as well as in 18 other provinces to get a comprehensive view of the situation.

BKKPost

scrapping the rice subsidies

I was under the impression that the subsidy had been reduced by $15 USD a Tonne, not scrapped. Am I in error?

Regards

I believe the subsidy was the amount that was reduced, making it the total subsidy that was cut. That made the sale price just slightly higher than the cost of production. Although this does not sound like a large amount to cut, the average farm size is 4 (Northeast) to 12 acres (Central) with the average family (4 people) income is approx $525 USD/year and $720 USD/Year for those that cultivate a second crop. Crops in these areas never meet the 1000Kg/Rai that is often stated. A cut of $15 a Tonne over the wholesale price would account for a large loss of family income.

FAO Rice Conference Info

And what about the Democrats now. It seems that now the ban on political activities has been lifted. But where are their policies they want to communicate to the people. What are they going to do?

Anybody?

I'll bite... They don't have any, just as they didn't have any in the past at least where the rural poor is concerned.

Not just those issues, that is an incomplete definition. Though it varies by jurisdiction, the underlying principal is that the Judge determines he or she cannot act impartially in the matter to which the Judge is empanelled.

So what are you saying.. That a judge can or cannot rule impartially in a bribery case if he was just approached with a bribe? If he did or did not turn it down is irrelevant, he could not be impartial because of the type of trial that they were sitting on, a bribery one. IMO

and please ignore my jd and explain to me the proper word if it is not recuse <well since it would NOT be a matter of form for a judge to recuse himself in this situation ... just find any other word that might work >

Ohh.. Recuse is the right word, because "a ranking official approached Constitution Tribunal judges" (it was intimated, directly) and as such they had a "personal involvement" in the case and should have stepped down.

What the TRT as a whole may or may not have done in the past or what it (the ex members) may or may not do in the future has nothing to do with what should have been done by the judiciary in this case. To at least appear to be impartial he or they should have stepped down, there are always alternates ready to step in, in the event one or more of the judges is incapacitated or unable to serve for some reason.

ummm no it would NOT be normal for a judge to recuse themselves because of an offer that was rejected. <if it were ... don't like your judge? pay some flunky to try and bribe them <<rinse and repeat until you get the judges you want>>>

The person who allegedly tried to bribe the Judge/Judges was described by the Justice Ministry permanent-secretary as a "senior official" and "aranking official". That's not some flunky. As the judiciary in Thailand has been suspect before, as you well know, and this was such a high profile case this should have been out prior to the verdict. All this has managed to do is add fuel to the fire for those that think both ways.

BTW:- recuse - to disqualify from participation in a decision on grounds such as prejudice or personal involvement.

Charan claims senior officials tried to pay bribe in TRT case

Justice Ministry permanent-secretary Charan Pakdithanakul Monday claimed that a senior official tried but failed to pay kickbacks for an acquittal verdict in the electoral fraud case involving the Thai Rak Thai Party.

"A ranking official approached Constitution Tribunal judges and offered them bribes to fix the verdict," Charan said in reference to the last month's guilty verdict and dissolution of the former ruling party.

He refused to name the official and the judges involved.

"Someone might have thought that money could buy everything," he said, sidestepping a question on the amount of money offered.

Reacting to Charan's comments, tribunal judge Thanis Kesawapirak said he was unaware of any bribery attempts.

"I formed my decision based on legal principles and did not know how Charan got his information," he said.

The Nation

If this did indeed happen, normal procedure is for the Judge/Judges approached to step down and the person ordering the bribe to be charged. If indeed this allegation is true, the impartiality of the court and the judges involved, is in dire question as standard legal procedures were not followed. If proven the verdict in the case has to be annulled and a new trial called. If this is true, someone from the court made a huge mistake in procedure by not disclosing the alleged bribe, before the verdict.

People disagree with anti-coup rally: Polls

A Poll for a Poll, so to speak...

The poll you quoted was from 3,554 Thai adults, conducted from May 20 to May 26, 2007 in the metropolitan Bangkok area, Margin of error is 2.5 per cent. That is prior to the May 30 ruling which would defiantly changed the poll numbers if conducted after the verdicts.

=======================

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research

Former Opposition Leader Favoured by Thais

June 11, 2007

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) - The leader of Thailand’s Democratic Party - Phak Prachatipat (PP) is very popular in Bangkok, according to a poll by Bangkok University Research Institute. 39 per cent of respondents in Thailand’s capital would prefer to have Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister after the next general election.

Deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of the Thai Love Thais Party - Phak Thai Rak Thai (TRT) is second with 21.5 per cent,

Full Article.

======================

This poll was carried out in Bangkok after the tribunal verdicts. Seems over 20% of Bangkok's residents still want to see Thaksin in power.

Just a note. Registered from Thailand to Canada, and visa versa, ends somewhere between the two countries. you can only trace it until it leaves the respective country. I'm not sure if that's universal. We have used DHL and EMS and both are good but service is dismally slow between Asia and North America, both ways, compared to what we are used to.

Attackers 'thought he was drunk'

A key member of the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship yesterday admitted former Senator Kraisak Chonhavan was assaulted at its Saturday night rally.

However, Kokaew Pikulthong defended the assault saying those involved thought Kraisak was a "drunk causing chaos".

Article

As always there are probably 2 sides to the story with the truth somewhere in the middle.

snip

the rule of law hardly exists in our country today - and ...... If there is no justice, there can be no equality and certainly no democracy.

snip

That's what I just said... and I should add that there is no Separation of Power in Thailand.