bubba

13 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

I haven’t yet attended quarantine but I have asked similar questions. As I understand it: 

 

1) A Covid-19 PCR test is carried out on arrival or within a day or two of arrival. You must remain in your room until the a negative test is conform. You are then given a wrist band and can use the Hotel Facilities on a ‘booking basis’ i.e. you can use the Gym, which is then sanitized afterwards by staff. You can use the hotel restaurants (socially distanced eating), you can walk the hotel grounds (outside), you are unable to use the pool.

 

2) Some of the quarantine hotels are offering ‘family rooms’ so I assume you can stay with your family in quarantine. 

Have a look at the Twitter account in this post, with someone who finished quarantine. 

His stay was at Centre Point where all meals were delivered and he was only allowed out of his room to an outside waiting area for about 40 minutes every second day while housekeeping serviced his room. That would put me off of Centre Point if other hotels are allowing use of amenities such as the gym, the grounds and hotel restaurants.

1 hour ago, CLS said:

The official ASQ list is here:

http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/contents/filemanager/document/List of ASQ Hotels 26062020.pdf
 

You are confined to your room. Food is brought to your doorstep.

On the list are family rooms. So wife and/or kids should be ok.

Thanks. 'Unheard' posted a twitter link earlier and it was really helpful hearing a day by day from someone who actually did it. Turns out he was doing ASQ at Centre Point.

https://twitter.com/wayne_hay

The less attractive things I learned from that was:

- He was only allowed to leave his room every second day when they serviced his room and then only for 40 minutes, where there was a small outdoor area in which to sit or stand;

- No outside food deliveries allowed. The included food was from a short menu and if you wanted anything else, room service was the only option;

- No balcony and no windows were allowed to be opened, and here it comes;

- NO ALCOHOL ALLOWED

I am sure the room was nicer and there is a TV with TrueVisions, but that sounded a lot like a two week prison sentence to me.

A couple of questions for anyone who may have done re-entry quarantine or knows someone who has done alternative state quarantine:

1. Must you stay in your room for the entire two weeks or are you allowed to walk around the premises? 

2. Are you allowed to stay in the same room with a spouse, or must you stay in separate rooms for the duration?

Does anyone know whether testing for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies is available yet anywhere in Thailand? 

Quote

Magic Food Court on the basement level sells thai food at normal prices.

I think dining at Magic Food Court might not be the most effective implementation of protecting yourself through social distancing.

If you are American, you should be aware of the travel warning just issued by the U.S. State Department:

The State Department warned Americans not to travel internationally on Thursday and advised all Americans who are abroad to return to the United States or make preparations to shelter in place to reduce the chance of contracting the novel coronavirus.

The agency raised its travel advisory for all international travel from 3 to 4, the most serious category, reflecting the difficulty thousands of Americans are having returning to the United States as borders close and airlines cancel flights.

“U.S. citizens who live in the United States should arrange for immediate return to the United States, unless they are prepared to remain abroad for an indefinite period,” said the State Department advisory. “Many countries are experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and implementing travel restrictions and mandatory quarantines, closing borders, and prohibiting non-citizens from entry with little advance notice,” the statement added.

https://apple.news/ADUfghFXcTg22_-w3EFJtuw

As they are advising American citizens to arrange for immediate return, might this mean that they are considering sealing the border?

16 hours ago, missoura said:

I was fortunate enough to take a ride in one of the Thai helicopters during this event and it was quite an adventure. Well done Thailand!

 

 

 

A ride in a Thai army helicopter? You are a braver man than I.

So I see that Chiang Mai has already made it in to the world's top ten worst cities for air quality:

Chiang Mai is currently at #9

Bangkok is at #34.

Air quality and pollution city ranking

Interestingly, I have a friend who just obtained his non-imm O marriage single entry in Honolulu and the requirements were quite different. He was required to show US$700 in a bank account and no proof of income. They also required a R/T air ticket receipt and a copy of his wife’s passport.

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I answered in as a general comment as an example since I do know about the posters status here.

I am aware Jomtien does not enforce that for those on long term extensions or visa entries.

Commenting from Chiang Mai here. I was told by my condo management when I moved in that TI is very serious about the T30 here and they advised me to let the front desk attendant know each time I return from a trip out of Thailand. They then do the filing for me. Note that they did not say returning from a domestic trip, where I know the hotel would have TM30'd me. Just to be safe, I ask the front desk agent to TM30 me each time I return from any trip.

12 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

I fully believe the Thais will gravitate to seeing some evidence of a pension, not just some monthly transfers which by themselves do not prove any sort of reasonably sustainable income.  One could just be spending down a lump sum and transferring it in monthly.  That I am sure is not what the idea of "income" was intended to be.  Now if the OP above says Phetchabun will only accept pension and Embassy Letter, well that is bad news for those that can't get embassy letters.  Even if they prove transfers, they won't have the embassy letter.  This whole thing is a mess and will be a mess for quite a while.

In this becomes the rule, then the income option is effectively ruled out for those who are not yet of pension age. That represents a large percentage of retirees here. I cannot see TI taking yet another draconian measure to chase retirees and their money away. 

I just installed a new 2s yesterday and it is working well, at least according to the display on the unit. AQI outside from a nearby station (Chiang Mai) shows 234 at the moment and the 2s unit in the bedroom is showing 12.

But here is my problem: I cannot get the Mi Home iOS app to work. It is properly installed and connected to the 2s; however, when I access the 2s, I get "failed to initialize device (7)". Having searched this issue, I found many others have the same problem and some workarounds were suggested, but none of those have resolved my issue.

Has anyone else seen this problem and found a solution?

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Although the current translation of the new rules is using the term "pension," in all likelihood, what's going to end up mattering for monthly income applicants is that you or someone transfers at least the required 40K or 65K into your Thai bank account from some foreign source every month -- regardless of the original source of those funds.

 

Surely that must be the case, since many of us are older than 50 but younger than pension age.

1 hour ago, yankee99 said:

All i can say is the thai banks charges are very expensive for the merchants. When i inquired with bangkok bank and they wanted 100,000 deposit and 5%. 

It’s not just the bank commission chrarged to merchants, which is very high for small businesses. The banks also charge them a monthly rental on their credit card machine. 

Providing credit card service costs small family businesses significant money, while they are already operating on a thin margin. I have no problem at all having the option of card or cash, and compensating them for their added cost of providing that service. I think it’s the banks who should be getting the heat in this thread. 

28 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

This email was received by Democrats Abroad Thailand members :

=========================

Dear Americans Abroad in Thailand,

Happy belated Thanksgiving, I hope you all had a chance to enjoy the holiday with family and friends.

As a service to our members and their American friends, DA Thailand is providing a report compiled by our DAT Vice-Chair Gary Suwannarat, who recently attended a town hall organized on November 20, 2018, by the US Consulate in Chiang Mai.

Please note that this is provided to alert members to upcoming changes but does not constitute legal advice; questions about your particular situation and circumstances should be addressed to Thai Immigration officers or to immigration lawyers.

This affects those living in Thailand on retirement visas. US Consular Offices (as well as those of the UK and Australia) will no longer notarize income certifications after December 31, 2018.

Gary Suwannarat’s report is as follows:

Chiang Mai US Consul General Jennifer Harhigh and overall Thailand Consul General Timothy Scherer spoke to some 200 Americans concerned about this upcoming change in income certification procedures for Americans applying for retirement visas, or renewal of an expiring retirement visa. This impacts many of the estimated 70,000-75,000 Americans on long-term visas in Thailand, some 20,000 of whom are served by the Chiang Mai Consulate, covering the CM Consular District from Chiang Rai in the north to Pichit, Pitasanuloke and Tak in the south.

Scherer indicated that there is no change in Thai law. However, as part of a global review of US consular operations, it was found that US consular offices in Thailand issue an unusually high number of income affidavits. This was raised in consular dialogue with Thai authorities, who then realized that the notarized affidavit affirms only that the named citizen appeared before a US Consular officer, but does not constitute proof of income, as required by Thai law as detailed in Police Order 777/2551, which governs visa approvals. (See partial translated text below.) Similar changes are reported regarding the UK and Australia, and in the offing for citizens of other countries who have significant populations of retired persons living in Thailand.

The US Embassy and the Immigration Division held discussions regarding how to ease the transition to new regulations, resulting in the Thai Immigration Division extending the validity of notarized income certification for 6 months from date of notarization. Notarization obtained by December 31, 2018 will be accepted until end-June, 2019. (Note: the Consular calendar in Chiang Mai is filling up fast.)

Follow-up comments indicated that the Chiang Mai Immigration Office earlier this year instituted a requirement of proof of income, supporting the Consular-notarized income affidavit. (Note: My contact with Chiang Mai Immigration officials indicates that they want both the Consulate notarization and back-up documentation.) Scherer acknowledged that Immigration Offices around Thailand exercise discretion in applying regulations, so there may be some inconsistencies.

One commenter said he had asked his US bank to provide a statement which summed his variable income for the year, reported as average monthly income, which was accepted for retirement visa purposes. Scherer stressed the importance of obtaining bank documents that, like this case, indicate as clearly as possible that income meets the Thai criteria.
Scherer further indicated that Embassy officials are working with Thai Immigration officials to familiarize them with financial reporting formats of the Social Security Administration, Veterans Affairs and major firms managing IRAs. The value of using standard income and retirement income reports (1099 and 1099-R) was mentioned.

Audience members applauded the suggestion that the Embassy work with the government to get acceptance of forms with personal identifying information not required for visa purposes redacted or blacked out as protection against identity theft.

The "combination" method (including both monthly income and Thai bank deposits) will still be accepted for justification of individual retirement visa extensions. For spousal visa extensions, inquire of Thai Immigration authorities or an Immigration lawyer.

Questions and discussion indicated that ANY source of income could be considered, not just pension income. In meetings with Thai Immigration, the U.S. officials have stressed that Americans have many sources of income (many not at regular intervals) to support themselves in retirement -- rental income, investments, withdrawals from trusts, and much more in additional to traditional government pensions like SS and VA. There was one report of someone in Chiang Mai receiving income at irregular intervals, so he printed out all deposits to his U.S. bank account over the course of a year and showed Thai immigration how it was more than 800,000 baht a year and this was accepted.

There was concern from several expat-expat married couples who each have been maintaining individual retirement visas, where one receives less than 65,000 baht and the other more than 65,000 baht, but the total exceeded 130,000 baht. Would it be possible for the wife to obtain a dependent or "family" visa? U.S. officials were unable to answer this question about how Thai immigration will handle dependent visas going forward. Again, speak to a Thai Immigration official or immigration lawyer.

Thai Police Order 777/255: Unofficial translation (available online):

Retirement visa application requires proof of income of not less than 65,000/month OR
Thai bank account deposit of baht 800,000 at least 2 months prior to INITIALLY applying for a retirement visa; at least 3 months prior to application for retirement visa renewal OR
Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less than baht 800,000 as of the filing date for retirement visa.

Thank you to Gary for volunteering to go to the meeting and file this report to share with the DAT membership. So, to summarize, the only real advice that DAT can provide to you is the following:

Get the income affirmation notarized by the Embassy before year end if your visa expires before June 30, 3019. (Note that appointment slots at the consulate are filling up fast.)
Ensure others you know are also made aware of these changes.
For advice about specific cases, either talk to a Thai Immigration officer or an immigration lawyer

I hope that this is helpful to our members who have retired in Thailand on a retirement visa and will be affected by this situation.

With best wishes,

Phil Robertson
Chairperson, Democrats Abroad Thailand (DAT)
Email: [email protected]

Democrats Abroad Thailand
http://www.democratsabroad.org/

Many thanks for posting that, Bob.  This seems to answer one nagging question that I had: Will TI accept an averaging method for those of us who have irregular income rather than monthly pension payments? To quote those parts:

One commenter said he had asked his US bank to provide a statement which summed his variable income for the year, reported as average monthly income, which was accepted for retirement visa purposes. Scherer stressed the importance of obtaining bank documents that, like this case, indicate as clearly as possible that income meets the Thai criteria.

Questions and discussion indicated that ANY source of income could be considered, not just pension income. In meetings with Thai Immigration, the U.S. officials have stressed that Americans have many sources of income (many not at regular intervals) to support themselves in retirement -- rental income, investments, withdrawals from trusts, and much more in additional to traditional government pensions like SS and VA. There was one report of someone in Chiang Mai receiving income at irregular intervals, so he printed out all deposits to his U.S. bank account over the course of a year and showed Thai immigration how it was more than 800,000 baht a year and this was accepted.

Yes, but is that not the point of this thread and the US consular meeting as well? "What about me" is certainly something on many of our minds with the cessation of income verification letters. Yes, there are those of us who are not yet receiving any kind of government pension but still have substantial income from dividends, capital gains and other revenue streams. Verifying those forms of income is a grey area and we need some sort of guidance and clarification soon now that the income verification letters are gone.

Form 1099 shows a lump sum, annualised income, correct? So TI would use an average that shows in excess of 65K/month since the 1099 does not show monthly income?

If that is the case, then apparently TI do accept a 12 month average of annualised income.

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

My suggestion is to keep proceeds out of the country in a "buffer" account, and use that acct to seed the Thai account at or above the minimum required monthly level.  In my case, that means not sending "too much too soon" to retain sufficient funds for "lean" months - so sending money to Thailand is delayed, not accelerated.  In the past, when my business did well, I'd send over a larger chunk, then draw it down over time - not anymore. 

 

This may not be enough, of course, given the income is not from a govt-source with some sort of letter - but it is the best I can do.  Hopefully a year of transfers - or several, if I continue using Non-O-ME Visas (married to a Thai) - will provide a track-record sufficient to satisfy a measly 1-year extension at some point in the future.  I could back this up with the associated university degrees and a CV, if they are worried the business could fail - proving I could easily take a Thai's tech-job here, if I was so inclined (I'm not, unless forced to do this by immigration as a last-resort).

That seems like a good idea, Jack - not keeping 800K tied up in a Thai bank account for three months, with no way to grow it. The problem now is that with the elimination of consulate income verification, it is already too late to show an entire year of 65K monthly income.

As you mentioned, I keep hearing that TI want to see some sort of monthly government pension income. TI really do need to establish guidance regarding income for those of us who have not yet reached pension age.

58 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

You have no idea if that’s what happened or not. Senior immigration officers have the authority to waive the seasoning requirements.

Do they? Has anyone ever heard of an immigration waiving the seasoning requirement?

28 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I would agree and the point being that what needs to be 'proved' is that one has 65K per month each month and the stream will  remain  relatively stable for the year.  This can be attained several ways- pensions-  both government and company;  a home rental  generating income;  a  business (not working) investment generating the required income; stocks that  show an ongoing income stream/

 

How one spends their income in Thailand is inconsequential- some rent some buy; some have  cars others use taxis etc.  No one lifestyle fits all. Some will spend much more than 65K per month- others much less. Everyone needs a place to sleep; food; and  transportation and clothing.

 

While I do not have a business or stocks; I would hope that when the dust settles there will be enough in the system to accommodate those who  actually have the income and can  provide documentation showing it and not focus on the type or how they spend it.

That's a good point, Thaidream. Income is income, and not only monthly pension payments. My whole question is: will Immigration interpret the guidance as at least 65K/month each month for a total of 780K PA or will they allow for averaging?

As Sheryl pointed out earlier, dividends are typically paid out quarterly, which could mean big chunks coming in on various months, and perhaps nothing on some months. Same goes for income from asset sales. For a person with income from asset sales and dividend income totalling, say, 5M baht annualised, if a monthly 65K minimum is applied, that person could be denied their extension, while the 70K/month pensioner who is substantially less well off is granted their extension. 

This really is a big deal to many of us who derive our income that way, particularly those of us who have not yet reached pension or social security age. If I have to create 65K/month of income from share sales plus dividends, I do not want to do that, but I can; however, what we need is some clarification on what exactly will be acceptable so that we can do the appropriate planning. None of us wants the unpleasant surprise of being denied our extension next time round.

2 hours ago, rumak said:

and just how would anyone verify that the next day or two you did not reinvest (buy shares) of that or another stock.    ???    very easy to do when you have two seperate trading accounts.   

There is no way anyone could what the proceeds from a share sale are used for, whether reinvestment or spending. It is still income. For a pensioner, is there any way anyone could verify how he/she uses that income, which could be an investment or it could be spending? I see nothing in the retirement extension guidance that stipulates how verifiable income is to be spent. 

2 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Borrowing & paying it back. The shonky types would be more likely to do that with an averaging system that allows them to borrow & pay back, say, once every 4 months, than with a monthly minimum system (because of the credit costs potentially involved).

Not sure what you mean here with regard to share sales. Do you mean borrowing the funds on margin to buy the shares? That could get very expensive, including the margin interest and the potential for substantial losses.