p_brownstone

The running of the Duty Free concession at the Don Muang Airport – and other International Airports in Thailand – is another sadly typical example of corrupt practice in Thailand.

Several years ago Kingpower lost the concession to an Irish Company (forget the name just now) who are specialists in the field and run Duty Free operations in many Countries around the world.

After a few years the political “climate” changed and they were kicked out on very suspect grounds and Kingpower re-instated.

It’s a money making operation because most casual travellers – i.e. people on their annual holidays – simply assume that anything in the “Duty Free” shops anywhere must, by definition, be cheaper than the equivalent Product if bought at the local Dixons or whatever; and they have no opportunity to compare the pricing until it’s too late.

Patrick

You just have to look around Bangkok, there is so much land that is left vacant and neglected and could be developed.  (That makes me wonder why land is so expensive here)

A pity that these beautiful mature trees have to be cut down. Shame on you Ambassador Fall.

I do not believe the Ambassador would have any say in the matter whatsoever.

But it's certainly a classic example of selling the family silver.

Patrick

Only just saw this!

You must have the child's Thai Birth Certificate to show at Passport Control when leaving BKK. Then child can exit on UK Passport.

When you come back to LOS child comes ex UK and  in on Thai Passport

They are not too fussed when the child is small, however later -eg. child 8+ you will have to get a UK Right of Abode Stamp in the child's Thai Passport. Do this in the UK from Liverpool, where it costs £20. If you do in BKK it is MUCH more expensive and the forms are not the same.

Non of this applies if the child has two valid Passports.

If the child has both a Thai Passport and a British one there is absolutely no need to show any documents at the Thai Airport except the Passports. Both the Thai and British ones at Airline Check-in in Thailand and at Boarding, the Thai one only at Immigration leaving Thailand. Entering and exiting the U.K. show only the British Passport, entering Thailand show only the Thai one.

Nor do you need a “Right of Abode” sticker in the Thai Passport – this is automatically a right if the holder also has a British Passport.

Patrick

I think you are simply wrong..and who would take the risk? I was told quite unequivocally that the Thai Birth Certificate was required and it was asked the first thing asked for in addition to the two passports. No-one was interested in the Thai Passport exiting BKK only the Birth Certificate the details of which were written into the UK Passport. How can a child leave for the UK on a Thai Passport without a UK Visa!!?Not difficult to take the Cert to be sure....?.

I think you are also wrong about right of abode. As I said when the child is small no-one cares....however later it is NOT the same.

Of course being where we are you may be 'forunate' or 'unfortunate' with whom you meet!

Perhaps you have some unique circumstances of which I am not aware.

All I can assert is from my own long experience with a Daughter born in Thailand - 22 years ago - who has lived here permanently, overseas holidays etc. excepted.

Mother is Thai, I am British.

My daughter has had British and Thai Passports since she was just over 4 months old - we have travelled extensively in and out of Thailand since then (and she has travelled alone many times too). We have never been asked for any documents apart from the two Passports - to be presented as detailed in my earlier Post, nor does she have a UK "Right of Abode" Sticker in her Thai Passport.

Leaving Thailand, only the Airline wants to see evidence that the passenger has the right to enter the destination Country - whiich is why you need to present either a Thai Passport with a valid Visa OR both Passports at Check in and at Boarding. Immigration, leaving Thailand, has no interest in where you are going or whether or not you have a Visa / right of entry, all they look for is that your entry and stay in, and departure from,Thailand was in conformity with Thai regulations.

If the child / teenager / adult has both Thai and British Passports no other documents are needed and there is absolutely no "risk" involved at all.

Literally thousands of Thai's have two Passports and I am sure this "Passport Shuffle" occurs dozens of times a day at Don Muang - absolutely nothing in any way illegal or risky believe me.

Patrick

Sure he did.

30 Baht Medical Scheme, Baht 1 million Village Fund, SML Fund - the list goes on.

He just introduced and perfected the idea of buying peoples votes with their own money, not his.

Patrick

Only just saw this!

You must have the child's Thai Birth Certificate to show at Passport Control when leaving BKK. Then child can exit on UK Passport.

When you come back to LOS child comes ex UK and  in on Thai Passport

They are not too fussed when the child is small, however later -eg. child 8+ you will have to get a UK Right of Abode Stamp in the child's Thai Passport. Do this in the UK from Liverpool, where it costs £20. If you do in BKK it is MUCH more expensive and the forms are not the same.

Non of this applies if the child has two valid Passports.

If the child has both a Thai Passport and a British one there is absolutely no need to show any documents at the Thai Airport except the Passports. Both the Thai and British ones at Airline Check-in in Thailand and at Boarding, the Thai one only at Immigration leaving Thailand. Entering and exiting the U.K. show only the British Passport, entering Thailand show only the Thai one.

Nor do you need a “Right of Abode” sticker in the Thai Passport – this is automatically a right if the holder also has a British Passport.

Patrick

PET MAK

Also, lots of Thai food, even when it has no spice, smells nasty and tastes terrible.

Ped Mak means very hot.............you sure you've got it right

Well, I was so excited last night that I typed it wrong. But yes, I know to say "Mai Pet" and they act like they don't understand Thai. So tell me please

Mai means no, and pet means spicy, so mai pet should mean no spice. Somebody else has commented that I should say something else, but I doubt their brain can hear the sounds. How about 'Soon pet' which I think should mean zero spices? But it doesn't matter; Thais are so full of Thainess and spiciness that the absence of spice would be anti-Thai or they might think it's sacriligeous not to have spicy food.

My point is, that Thais don't understand this; they can't comprehend this in their own language, even if you get the vowel tones right. They wouldn't know non-spicy if they found it. Even well-meaning friends and coworkers have told me time and again, "Oh, that doesn't have any spices" but it does. They are incapable of knowing the absence of spiciness. I don't know if their taste buds work at that level.

Nothing spoils my meal more than pain. Sometimes it ruins my day. Next time, I may just spit it back onto the plate and start drinking everybody's water, whether or not it's effective in putting out the fire.

"Mai Pet" actually means "not TOO spicy" (my emphasis), so it's left up to the cook to determine the actual level; and her standards may obviously be much different to yours.

If you want to say "Not Spicy" as in "No chillis" then the phrase is "Mai sai Prik"

Patrick

I like spicy food. but not dry powdered red chili, which I saw customers of side-road food stalls pour into their dishes in huges amounts.... and the funny thing - WITH SUGAR ! that is too much for me....

It's always amusing to see Farang in Thailand drinking copious amounts of water or Beer in an attempt to counteract the sudden effects of Chillis in their food.

By far the quickest remedy is a small amount of sugar allowed to gently dissolve in the mouth.

I am pretty sure - although I hate the modern "sugar with everything" Thai food so have never actually experimented - that this is why even the broth in the local Noodle Shop is now so pre-sweetened so it's impossible to order anything "mai sai nam dtan".

Patrick

Although I have been in Thailand for over 30 years I have always loved hot and spicy food here.

In the early '70's when I was regularly travelling and working upcountry, I spent a lot of time searching in the North of Thailand for the legendary "Prik Chang", which was said to be so potent that just briefly immersing it in the soup or curry would flavour the dish to a level which even liberal dashes of Prik Kee Noo could not achieve.

Alas I never found this Grail of the Chilli World!

Patrick

It always amuses me that the Owl which Bernard "Night Owl" Trink uses as his "Logo" is actually a Snowy Owl.

The Snowy Owl is a diurnal bird - active during the day, not the night.

It's main habitat is the cold, snowy Northern climates, not the Tropics - far less Thailand.

The pictured individual Bernard uses is a Juvenile - about 2 years old I would guess (one can only see the head and shoulders).

So many telling differences from the image "Night Owl" might properly want to convey.

And OK - I'm a pedant!

Patrick

Be patient, you might see some beautiful parrots etc if you add some chopped up fruit to the seed

udon,if a saw a parrot in my garden i think i would faint.Blimey,a Coucal is about as exciting as it gets.

When i turned on the old PC this morning could not believe i actually got so many replies.Not the only sad old git out there then.

A little bored yesterday so took a stroll through the fields and saw i couple of mist nets between some trees so looks like the locals are having sparrow pie for tea.

"Coucal" and "Mist Net" would seem to identify you as someone who knows a bit about the subject of Ornithology rather than just "Twitching"?

Do you know the secret handshake!?

Patrick

maybe the "large sum of money" was to get the dog through customs/quarantine???

Your all right none of it makes sense and none of this is going to give me answers to any of my questions nor bring Marc back. He could not of fallen from the roof top there was a wooden lattice type fence around the garden and he was grabbing onto the side of the building trying to stop from falling. Marc was only 140# and wasn't that tall. He took his dog everywhere he went and he had no problem getting her through customs and they don't quarintine dogs coming to Thailand. He was very interested in possible starting a business there and had hopes of getting married and starting a family with a Thai woman and was none to happy about Bush becoming president again so he wanted a lot of his money moved out od the USA. He loved Asian woman and had always said when he ever does decide to marry it would definitly be a Asian woman. As for the name John Steven it sounded questionable to us too but we hear that people in foreign countries sometimes do name their children presidents names or it could possible be a name he used in his travels. This is not a Troll and my cousin was a very privaledged person who talked too much and had a way of getting into things that most of us wouldn't. But, I'm not here to talk about Marc's life I'm trying to find out about his death. No one has the right to kill someone and get away with it no matter where you are in the world.

Well.

That answers a lot of questions ......... which no-one asked.

Raises a lot of others too.

Patrick

Also, I remember when I first came here and sometimes mentioned that I was adopted (when questioned further about my background), the reaction always seemed to be one of embarrassed pity or silence. *

Kat

I do not wish to in any way upset you, but your somewhat rambling, scattergun responses to this thread seem to demonstrate that you have your own personal problems.

Here you appear to intimate that since you "sometimes" .... "mentioned" you were adopted, this is worthy of particular note and comment upon. Indeed you imply that if Members do NOT Post in clear sympathy with your circumstances, even their very silence is in some way reprehensible.

Maybe you should open another, more personally specific Thread, but your contributions so far to this one add little of real value.

Patrick

Whilst raising someone elses' child - made necessary as a result of various circumstances - is a feature of the extended family structure in Thailand it is not at all common for families to Adopt children, unless the background of the childs' family is well known, for example if it is the offspring of a family member.

It is quite unusual for children to be Adopted from Orphanages - at least compared to the situation in the West etc..

In Thailand there is great concern over the childs' "Sandarn" the instincts, attitudes and basic character inherited from its' birth parents, which Thais believe cannot be altered or modified. Even if the child is brought up in an entirely different atmosphere or social situation to that to which it was born the firm belief is that these traits will eventually surface and perhaps bring the family name into disrepute for example.

By definition any child unfortunate enough to be placed in an Orphanage is considered to be of very low birth - having no family willing or able to take care of it - so a very risky candidate for Adoption.

Hi all.

My 6 month old son was born here in Thailand and possesses both a Thai and British passport. I'm taking my family back to the UK mid March and was wondering what passport to exit Thailand on and what passport to enter the UK on.

I was going to use the Thai passport for my son to leave Thailand on and the British passport to enter the UK on. Is this normal practice?

The reason for this is so that the Thai authorities don't ask too many questions at passport control regarding reasons why my son does not have an entry stamp in his British passport (he was born in BKK)

We will be traveling with relevant birth certificates but don't really wish to complicate matters more than necessary. 

Leprechaun

Just to add a little to Samrans' Post.

You will also have to show both Passports at the Boarding Gate, again to show Airline staff there that your son has the right to enter U.K..

At Immigration exiting Thailand however just show the Thai Passport - do NOT show both - there is absolutely nothing illegal in holding two Passports but some Immigration Officers do not know this and could make a fuss.

Patrick

I would agree that the incidence of this, in Thailand, is probably a bit less than 10 to 15 years ago.

Can I quickly share a little more about the expat I 'featured' in my previous post.

The farang concerned had a driver, from Essan early thirties, speaks very good English, married with a couple of children. Wife and kids living permanently in Essan.  The driver also had a mere noi here in Bkk.  I'm sure the regular posters have all seen this 'scenario' many times before - it's very 'normal' in Thailand.

The farang and wife tried for years to convince the driver that he was a sinner and that 'living in sin' without a marriage certificate was the most dreadful thing in the world.

They tried several times to have their Thai roman catholic priest convince the driver that he should convert and be saved.

The driver avoided 'being saved'.

I do not for a moment believe that any "Essan" driver "early thirties" who spoke "very good English" would stay more than a month with a pretentious, evangalising family such as you describe, let alone "for years".

Patrick

Bangkok is derived from two primitive Thai words, i.e. "Bang" means Village and "Kok" means Olive, thus its original meaning is "Village of Olive".  In the olden days, Bangkok was just a small agricultural and fishing village where people traveled mainly by rowing boats.

Yea, try to find a single Thai who will eat an olive. I have seen many a tree in the Kingdom, but never an olive tree.

If my memory serves me correctly, and no guarantees here, Kok refers to a type of reed.

The Asian olive is nothing like the one used in Martinis.

I have a "Makok" tree in my garden here in Bangkok, the fruit is hard, about the size of a billiard ball, and the taste is somewhere between a green Mango and a"Farang".

Patrick

And is there a meaning to "KrungThep"?

"Krung Thep" is actually an abreviation for ......

Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

which translates as .....

The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn.

Patrick

Anybody out there have any problems when taking your kids, or your dual self, home and back into los on the two passports without the use of this 'Certificate of Entitlement'? i.e. Using the Thai passport to exit the kingdom, entering the UK on the British passport, leaving the UK on the British passport and re-entering Thailand on the Thai passport. By rights, those with a Thai passport should also have a visa to board the plane, but surely on displaying the British passport if asked why you don't have a visa, one should be absolved of this need?

Reason I ask, I just lodged an application for my son's Brit passport and it was mentioned to me by the consulate staff that I should also be applying for a 'Certificate of Entitlement' if planning to take my son home and using the two passports. Expensive enough getting everything sorted for the passport and it'd be another 9,000 baht or so for this certificate.

Has anyone's offspring or themselves been questioned or refused boarding the plane without this?

We have had plenty of problems having dual Thai/ British passports, ever since we have to produce our passports before boarding. Most problems occur with nosey check-in staff. My wife leaves Thailand on her Thai passport without a U.K. visa. But the airline then wants to know how she will enter U.K.

Quite frankly it is worth while getting a stamp in your wifes passport entitelling her to

residence in UK she can do this if she has a U.K. passport. This "entilement" is valid for life and can be transferred to a new Thai passpor. It is well worth the cost.

The Check-in staff are not being "nosy".

It is part of their responsibility to make sure that a passenger is entitled to enter the destination Country - if the documents are not in order and entry is refused on arrival the airline is responsible for repatriating the passenger.

You just need to present both passports at Check-in and again at the Boarding Gate.

Patrick

Courier Companies usually import mixed items on one Air Waybill for the whole shipment arriving on one Flight, then get charged - or accept to be charged - by Customs at Don Muang on the highest possible Import Tarriff used in Thailand, rather than the correct Customs Tarriff for each individual item / package; they then pro-rata this charge over the whole shipment - it's simply easier for them that way.

If you have your own Shipping / Clearing Company then you can tell the Courier Company that your own people will be handling the Import procedure and they - the Courier Company - will pass all relevant documentation to them and you can then specify the correct Customs Tarriff for your Imported items.

Patrick

IMHO the British Club is a truely aweful place - the sort of place that makes you embarrassed to be British (I was a member for 5 years). Dont ask me why?

The whole club is extremely grotty (meaning in need of renovation) and populated with just the sort of farang you dont want to meet. (In particular, it is the sort of place that Brits hang around whinging about Thais and Thailand - the sort of Brit farang who only have expats as friends).

ps. apologies to any members that my generalisation doesnt apply to.

I have to agree.

In over 30 years in Thailand I have been to the British Club perhaps 10 times as a Guest, and not once in the last 20 years.

In the early '70's it was quite literally "The British Club", even Canadians, Australians etc. were not accepted as Members and the only individuals with brown skin there were the Gurkas moonlighting from the British Embassy who were employed as Security.

With the decline of "British" Expats in Thailand the joke now is that the Membership Secretary prowls around outside the gate on Surawong with a net!!

Patrick

The membership is almost entirely very old line folks who've been members for decades and younger members who have literally inherited their memberships. For quite a few years, the only route to full memberships that has been open to the newly arrived is through one of the two nominations that each board member is entitled to make every year. Some board members are honorable, I assume, but it is well known that many are anything but. The bribe necessary to secure one of the available nominations from most board members has been reliably cited to me as two million baht.

There is a year-to-year fee for the temporary use of the club facilities that many companies pay on behalf of a senior executive. A couple of years ago I seem to remember that the fee was something like B10,000 per month, but it may well be more than that now. The catch is that you get nothing for it other than the right to to there and pay for what you use. The monthly deal accrues no membership rights and can be summarily terminated or the conditions changed by the club at their whim.

The "perk" of being a Committee Member and having a personal allocation of 2 Membership slots per year has been discontinued - about 2 years ago I believe - after many complaints from Members. It was certainly a moneymaker for several of the Committee. The Baht 2 million is (was) about right from what I hear.

To be frank this never really bothered me too much - the Committee Members devote quite a lot of time and effort into administrating the Club and I see no reason why they should do this FOC.

I had forgotten about the "Associate Member" category, and the last time I checked (about 5 years ago) the cost was just under Baht 100,000 per year and as OAH points out this only conveys the right to use the facilities and does not attract any preferential treatment to move up the Waiting List for full membership.

Patrick

Really?

How did you pay?

Patrick

You are quite right Patrick about the credit card, although this is a relatively new thing. Only a couple of years, I think. Maybe this was started as people were swicking in! I have paid cash before, at the Polo Club anyway a while ago.

I have never paid recently, always letting my friends do it. I do square up with them though. Never heard about the coupons. Maybe I can get my friend to get me some.

I have not eaten there by myself for over 3 years now. What I meant was that I have gone by myself recently and used the swimming pool and met my friends later on for a meal.

Actually I believe the Credit Card and Coupons were introduced (about 4 - 5 years ago if I remember correctly) to stop the staff skimming cash!

T I T

Patrick

Latest news this morning, 19/1, closed indefinitely, which can take weeks.

Want to train staff, run trial periods etc.

Seems to me a bit of a decision taken under pressure or overreacting.

I can forsee this incident being used as an excuse to pressurise the concession holder into selling out to the Thai Government - or well connected private Companies. Effectively holding them to ransom by closing the system for "checks" is an ideal way of forcing them to concede.

The BTS concessionaire is already being crippled by the Governments' refusal to authorise extensions of the system, with the aim of getting them to sell out and I imagine they are already looking for ways to take over the Subway system too, now that someone else has invested in the infrastucture etc..

Patrick

I have gone without being a member, although not anyone can. I have gone there quite often with friends, so they recognize me.

No members on TV?

Really?

How did you pay?

Patrick

I agree with you.  The food is cheap and good.  Fun to people watch.  I was brought there as well by a member awhile ago.  Is it possible just to show up and eat without being a member?  At the British club this is not a problem was wondering if the situation was the same.  Of course I know you can't compare RSBC with the Briish club but was just wondering?

You must be accompanied by a Member to have Lunch or Dinner at the RBSC.

Payment for F & B is by use of a Club Credit Card (or in certain situations by using Coupons - to purchase which one must show a valid Membership Card) so it would be obvious you are not a Member when it came time to settle up - they may not physically throw you out to land on a hard surface but the situation would be pretty embarrassing!

Patrick