surfdog

เชย in popular use to mean antiquated/quaint is only around 80 year old, it was popularized by a novel series พล นิกร กิมหงวน where there's a character named ลุงเชย or uncle choey that is from upcountry and acts quaints, and thus the word become associated with quaintness 

where you at is it used negatively? like a step down from บ้านหนอก or even equal.

Most commonly I see เชย used to refer to fashion.


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what you point out is spot in I believe, the problem is that มี is stative, thus Thai usage attributes to speaker by default when no pronoun is used. So in answer to op, no you can not say "have a good day" มีวันดี without adding the verb wish. "wish you a good day" would be most appropriate and op
should have no probem using all these English sayings "have a good night, good day, etc" by just adding wish. Thai listeners will hear wish, translate to Thai in their own minds, and automatically understand that the OP is not referring to themself. Hopefully op is still reading as most of these threads expand what posters believe are easy questions, and then disappear when the answers become too complex or are contrary to what they expect the answer to be. The amount of discussion to take place for Beowolf to come and post the most grammatically correct answer is enough to give up on the internet.

As far as dynamic verbs, I believe there is no preference, they can go both ways, and is highly dependent on context, AND what is the norms for the language usage, e.g. ฝันดี refers to listener because that is the expected usage if not in answer to a question like เมือคืนนอนดีไหม?- ไช่ครับ ฝันดีครับ

Besides ไป and มี would be interested to see if other dynamic verbs favor the subject as the speaker or listener, and if particles come into play to tip the scales in one way or another.

If you ask a Thai to say the consonants in isolation I think they will say them both the same (apart from the tone), but in real life some words with ช often seem to get pronounced with a sh sound (เชียงไหม่ for example), while others always have the harder ch sound (ช้าง). I can't think of any words with ฉ that get pronounced with the sh sound though. That doesn't mean there aren't any, but it could be the difference surfdog is on about.

 

Maybe the ch only gets softened when the word has a mid tone, which won't happen if it's spelt with ฉ. Don't know, just flying a kite on that one.

 

I don't think Thais can hear much of a difference, because they never hear the difference between English words like shoe and chew. For them I think it's basically the same consonant, much like ป and ผ are basically the same to us, at least before we start in on Thai.

 

Thai's are taught they are different, but unless you are a newscaster are not annunciated due to lazy speaking. For example I wrote เดินเชยๆ because that is what I heard, but เชย means old fashioned. That I have got away with mispronouncing because when I use in context it is clear, because เชย is used more like a standalone adjective. I know and use เชย be ause when said it is said long and annunciated like you are disgusted. Old fashioned in Thai from what I've seen is insulting btw :)

 

So my curiousity asked the misses how do I pronounce เดินเชยๆ and she replies great you got it. But then I asked spell it, and oh how is that different from ช. Then all of a sudden she is annunciated it for me and saying เดินเฉยๆ and showing what must do to say ฉ

 

You make a frown and lower tongue to bottom of mouth to pronounce differently, it is not our "sh" sound and it is not our "ch" sound. Wife explained this is how kids are taught in schools to speak "properly".

 

Best example I think is ชั้น and ฉัน yes vowels are different but I can always hear the consonant difference in ฉ when used in ฉัน.

 

 

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In English, if you drop the pronoun you have already signaled that it is an imperative - which can only be a wish in this context - but in Thai you can drop the pronoun any old time, so the fact that it's missing doesn't tell you anything, and you need ขอให้.

Except for ไป, ขอให้ definitely not needed to use ไป as imperative but still definitely contextual. Go wash the car, go away, go to school, etc.


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In English, if you drop the pronoun you have already signaled that it is an imperative - which can only be a wish in this context - but in Thai you can drop the pronoun any old time, so the fact that it's missing doesn't tell you anything, and you need ขอให้.

so in English we imperative use implies a command to the listener, however in Thai it would be almost always contextual and dependent on the things we hear and say everday?

So for example my original example นอนดีๆนะครับ would never be construed as "I am sleeping so good" but always as "I hope you sleep well."? Beccause this meaning is attached to this phrase?

But then "นอนดีครับ" can be a reply to a question. Just wondering about reduplication (doubling of ดี) or the particle นะ, if these signal the imperative, e.g. listener knows it is imperative because that is what "people usually say"

Which brings to op's original question:

มีวันดีครับ - in trying to say the English phrase "(I hope you) Have a good day

Could it be changed to

มีวันดีๆนะครับ - and listener then understands it is the imperative? Although foreign sounding and outside normal registar.

And finally has anybody actually heard a Thai native speaker wish another "ขอให้มีวันดีครับ" just because I havn't doesn't mean it isn't a thing somewhere, and would solve the op's dillema of wishing other people a good day just like he would back home.

ราตรีสวัสดิ์ - is good night, I learned this from books but never fell into any social circles that used it. It is I believe the most formal way of saying good night (excluding royal language)

If I was said farewell to with ราตรีสวัสดิ์, I would greet in reply. นอนดีๆ is more intimate, a phrase for the opposite sex, or family, or could even be flirtacious depending on how said.


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can you explain how the tones are different? I actually see it (opening of mouth) and hear it as a different consonant altogether.


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that is a great explanation!


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no luck at this websire for "kot"

http://www.thamnong.com/hs9dmc/phasatai.htm

 

interesting one, for the language as well as the species:

อ้อดิบ - ต้นคล้าย ๆ ต้นเผือก ใช้ก้านใบแกงส้ม

 

oor -dip - it is a rare species of elephant ear plant that the stems can be eaten raw. Regular elephant ear would poison you causing your throat to swell up. From oxyalic acid (spelling?) Have planted extensively at the house for species collection, if you need let me know.

 

 

 

 

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wow just found a treasure of words I think havn't mentioned yet here https://www.sanook.com/campus/1390689/ while looking for a spelling of "kot" (very)

As always will only mention the ones I've heard before, many on the list already mentioned.

หึงสา - heung sa - jealous, I'm apt to say "sa" is only a particle because have heard "heung" without it used as a verb. As a standalone phrase with "sa" it is like "jealous! right!?"

ไซร์ - sai - why, mentioned aready but not this spelling, interesting use of garan.

ภาษาใต้ : หลบ, หล็อบ (หล๊อบ)
หมายความว่า : กลับ - return - mentioned before?

ภาษาใต้ : ทั้งเพ
หมายความว่า : ทั้งหมด ทั้งสิ้น - all, mentioned before? I almost hear "tung paeng" more then "tung pae"

เมล่อ, เบล่อ - this website says... however I hear เม่อร์ and เบ่อร์ sometimes followed with adjective "ขาด" - mer kaad, to pronounce it id very long sounding like - hmeerr- used to describe someone stupid, stubborn, foolish, in website they translate as "nonsensical" guess that works, I've heard both from same person, so I guess "mer" and "ber" are synonyms... possibly different slightly.

ok well on to find that spelling of "kot"


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https://forecasts.surfer.com

 

Check out here, toggle to East Asia, switch graphic to wind. You can also toggle the time.

 

This model looks like the center of storm's first landfall will be Talaem Phuk (the long peninsula jutting out from NST)

 

The time model is Tokyo, 2 hours ahead. Which puts first landfall sometime during the night, possibly 2-4 am.

 

The course of the storm will be due west heading and looks like it will slow down after passing the mountains, wind shear is likely minimal (as in wind shear that would disrupt the cyclone causing it to dissipate) due to the distance of the mountains from NST and low lying plains along the entire coast.

 

Please everyone use caution, as winds of 100kmph can be expected near the center.

 

Those of us in NST to Surat should prepare for the worst, I will check out the other models posted earlier.

 

 

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thanks Pete! coudn't find it in the dictionary but now know why. Another example of how knowing the spelling can better my speaking, for me I always heard "ช" but obvious now to me it is a bit softer.


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figured it out, "have a good day" is a saying, thus not held to grammar rules.

Have a good day actually means: I hope you have a good day.

"I hope you" has been deleted to shorten it, evolving the saying.

So the Thai equivilent for a literal translation is:

"ขอให้มีวันดี"

1:1 translation, you must add the verb hope but subject and pronoun can be deleted because Thai grammar allows that in converstion.

However, I may have heard this before, but really scratching my brain.

Whatever your Thai friends are telling you when saying farewell, is the most appropriate, copy that with the same accent.

For example Hello, How are you Thai people understand, but Hi, How is your day is lost on them.

So likely Thai people say Good Bye to you, so you say Good-Bye, not Bye, not Have a good day, etc.

This is what I meant by mimicing Thai, that will bring about Thai fluency for you much faster than trying to translate YOUR English daily lexicon to your Thailand life


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advice, just stick to 'see you soon' or 'see you -at a specified time or place'

เจอกันไหม่นะครับ - jer gun hmai na cup

See you again, open ended without connotation of short or long duration

hard to butcher, polite, and applicable to any farewell, have a wife in no time at all.

Whether there is a 1:1 exchange on this english saying I do not know, but I do know that you got to let loose and stop trying to create language but mimic the language around you.


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a lot of these farewell like phrases start off in Thai with "ขอให้"

literally "wish give" but in meaning is "wish you" as in wish you luck, wish you safety, wish you wealth, wish you have fun...

I can't imagine a way this gets translated with "have" except having "wish you" preceding it.

wish you have a good night...
even then good night is so vague and creepy to say I think.


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the buffalo horn knife is called that because it's made from buffalo horn and it is sharpened and shaped into a knife.




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It's not used when going to bed.
 
It's said if they're going out for the night, they're staying in, you're going out, or whatever. Said as the end of a conversation around 8pm or whatever. 

other farewells are appropriate depending on context, such as "Drive Safely" ขับรถดีๆนะครับ" or "Take Care of Yourself" ดูแลตัวเองนะครับ ( although my experience suggests you may not see each other for awhile )

I suggested the "Sleep Well" because, well beyond you I guess the romantic connotation,
e.g. "think of me when you get home in bed, and hope those thoughts find you well"

But hey don't worry, I can guarantee another member of this board will come back with an exact translation of "Have a good night" from Oxford's 17th edition of phrasology

It's not used when going to bed.
 
It's said if they're going out for the night, they're staying in, you're going out, or whatever. Said as the end of a conversation around 8pm or whatever. 

I would have to wonder does "Have a good night" mean anything more than "good bye," besides just being said at nighttime?

If so what else does it mean?

Easy example is how for us French is easier, and likewise Laos is easier for Thai, less interference from L1.

 

 

For those of us who are not language mavens, what is "L1 Interference"?
 

l1 = first language

the intereference is the different rules of grammar which cause us to trip up when learning another language.

It is an academic term, that is why in my drunken ramble last night I assumed the op was a teacher. :)


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oh sorry, L1 intereference is a bit of academic concept, so assumed you were a teacher. Also way too many beers last night...

In this case perhaps it is not the grammar for Thai messing it up, it is just the things you are saying and when you are saying them. The biggest cause of miscommunication.

For "have a good night" Thais say "sleep well" you can borrow a "krup" for "sleep well krup"

นอนดีๆนะครับ - nown dee dee nah cup

I doubt Thai people would mistake that.





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เดินไปเดินมา walk back and forth
เดินไปเทียว go out walking for fun
เดินไปเชยๆ เชิยๆ ?? not sure spelling on "chery" walking meaningless without purpose, "for fun"
เดินรอบๆ walk around and around, circling

seeing as you heard "dern l.." likely "dern len" as translated above. Perfect translation is our semi retired English word saunter.

Next time confuse her statement by saying "ไม่ไช่ แค่เดินเชยๆ"

mai chai, kay dern chery chery

"Nah, I just walking aimlessly"

(as saunter implies purpose, the purpose of fun)


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depending on their level yes. Easy way to test your students is giving them assigned essays (individual essays otherwise they cheat) and looking for subject deletion. Try to teach about SVO and how each sentence MUST have a subject otherwise it is incomplete. Trying to teach students what you wrote above is fruitless but it is great indicator that your beg-intermediate students glossed over SVO or have forgotten about it.

Remember there are no 'complete' sentences in Thai, and our over assertion of subjects into Thai is a roadblock to native fluency. Thai is more forgiving though in our case as inserting unnecessary subjects into conversation does not cause confusion.


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1rst sentence is more of an inside joke, or idiom reference unaware of, missing context, for compete translation will omit. and second sentence as well, seems related to first since time stamp of 3rd 2 hours later.

Now the third sentence is just a beautiful example of southern Thai, also there is a whole long thread in southernThailand forum on vocabulary, if you are into this or maybe this translation is just you spying on your girlfriend.

So to the third sentence:

สา - this is a particle, it gives emotion to the sentence, like it’s a pity. The sentence emotion, - “ it’s too bad, don’t think I’ll make it today” (is this southern?)

เหลยนิ - still (นิ - currently at this time)

ค่อย - eventually (is this southern?)

หราว - again or sometimes next time

ตอเช้า - tomorrow morning

So complete translation 3rd

Tut/Tat (name I guess)

(It’s pity) don’t think I’ll make it on time today. I’m still at the wedding. try to go again (to see you) tomorrow morning




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confused about what is to discuss... I knew exactly what you were talking about from the title description. Yes it is a bit of marketing, but there is no standardized word for this “fad” way of selling coconuts. Which worked by the way on you, the seller turned their 5 baht value wholesale coconut into a 60 baht sale, a 1200% return, by a bit of skill and marketing.

Now here is the “fad” reason, this stage of coconut where the meat is soft but still firm enough to remove from shell whole without puncturing, is not the best stage of coconut. In fact a very disappointing stage... About a month before this the meat and juice would be sweetest. And I would even wait 1-2 months after this to harvest carbonated
if for personal use.

The technique for making this naked coconut is demonstrated on youtube, search for มีดเขาควาย

As for that meat from your coconuts will
have very low milk yield without the oily taste of mature meat. You can add some of that meat to a batch of correctly aged meat to sweeten it a bit.


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