7by7

a lady called Pinky from the VAC rang me on wednesday and said the visa had been declined and told me why over the phone.

Alarm bells are ringing!

Passports are returned to the VAC in sealed envelopes. The VAC do not know the result! All they will, and can, tell you is that the passport is ready for collection.

Something seems very fishy to me. Are you 100% sure that your husband submitted his application directly to the VAC and was not waylaid by the dodgy agent in Regents House?

Her birth certificate may be handy to have, although we have never needed it as my wife's passport and our marriage certificate have always sufficed. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, in my opinion.

Any Thai documents should be translated and the translation certified. We had Thai documents translated by an agency in Bangkok and they certified the translation, which has always sufficed when ever needed in the UK. No need to have her ID card translated, of course, as she will not need to use it in the UK.

Once issued both NI and NHS numbers are for life. I'm not sure how she can find out what they are, and suggest you contact your local DWP and Primary Care Trust once in the UK.

7 wicket win with 3 overs to spare!

Well done, England

Yes. Not doing so will cause problems in the future if they ever want a UK visa; for example to visit her if she does settle.

Simple answer is; yes, she can get a visa.

She will need to show that she satisfies the criteria.

1) She is a genuine visitor with a genuine reason to visit.

You and any other sponsor should write a letter explaining your relationship with her and the reason for her visit at this time.

2) She will be adequately supported and accommodated during her visit.

She will need to show she has access to sufficient finances to pay for the visit. This money can come from her own resources, from those of a sponsor or sponsors or a mixture of both. Whoever is supplying any finance for the visit will need to show they have the necessary resources; their last 6 months pay slips and bank statements are recommended.

Whoever she will be staying with will need to provide details of the accommodation offered showing that there will be at least one room for her use; although sharing a bedroom with another person of the same sex is acceptable for visits. They should also show that they are in a position to offer this accommodation by providing proof of ownership, such as a copy mortgage statement or copy of the deeds, if they own or a letter from their landlord granting permission if they rent.

3) She will return to Thailand, or at least leave the UK, when or before her visa expires.

You may have difficulty with this one. As she is your employee in Thailand they may think that you are trying to get her into the UK to continue working for you. Remember that visit visa holders cannot work.

You should provide as much evidence as you can of her ties to Thailand. Letters from her other employers to say that she does work for them and they are granting her the necessary holiday, evidence of any property she may own. If she has family, this probably will not help as many Thais travel abroad to work and send money back to their families.

See Visitors (INF 2) and Sponsors (INF 3) for more.

For where and how she applies, see UK visa application centre.

Update from American embassy

Due to the ongoing security situation, the U.S. Embassy, including visa services, will remain closed on Tuesday, May 18. American Citizen Services (ACS) will be available for emergencies only.

Individuals whose visa appointments have been impacted by the closure of the U.S. Embassy will be contacted through the email address(es) provided during the appointment registration process with information on rescheduling.

Individuals with ACS appointments, please go to the U.S. Embassy website to reschedule. If you have problems rescheduling online, please email us at acsbkk(at)state.gov or call us at 02-205-4049. For individuals scheduling appointments for the first time, please go to the website to schedule your appointment. Please note that we are unable to make first time appointments over the phone.

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for your continued patience and understanding.

If applying under the immigration rules, which most children coming to the UK are, to join one parent and the other parent is alive then Para 297(e) of those rules says

one parent is present and settled in the United Kingdom or being admitted on the same occasion for settlement and has had sole responsibility for the child's upbringing

Ways of assessing this being given in Para SET7.8 What is sole responsibility? of the ECGs.

Parents applying for an EEA permit for their children appear to have an easier time of it; they only have to show parental responsibility, which may be shared with the other parent, not sole responsibility.

So, no, I do not see why any request for additional information by the ECO would be unreasonable.

Whether it is legal or not I can't say; see my previous comments.

I think I have posted this in the wrong forum!!

Moved.

Other embassies are also experiencing difficulties, for an example see this from the Swedish embassy (thanks to cdnvic for the heads up).

Others seem ok, for example there is nothing on the Australian embassy's site to say they are affected.

I'd advise checking with the appropriate embassy/visa application centre before making the trip, though.

This has come up before, this topic for example.

As I said there, family members of an EEA national who have permanent residence in an EEA state do not require a visa to enter the Schengen area. There is some confusion as to whether UK ILR would count as 'permanent residence.' I seem to recall reading somewhere that it does, but that some immigration officers at Schengen ports of entry may not realise this! So it is advisable to obtain a visa anyway.

This could be an interesting theoretical discussion on claiming asylum in the UK.

Unfortunately, it's already going in a different direction.

So, closed.

In addition, can anyone remember what spec of photos they want?

See UKBA PHOTOGRAPH GUIDANCE.

Finaly, to avoid having to go back to get the thing, they have a pricey service of texting and EMS. Can anyone remember how much that is?

See Additional services.

Price of SMS service is ฿75.

Courier charges for return of passport:

Within Bangkok: ฿180

Upcountry locations:

฿310 (Chiang Mai, Chonburi, Samutsakorn, and outskirts of Bangkok)

฿310 (Phuket, Suratthani)

฿440 (Roi Et)

Laos and Cambodia: ฿700

See Courier collection

To avoid duplication, I have started a pinned topic on the situation at the VAC and embassy. Please post any further comments etc. there.

To avoid duplication, I have started a pinned topic on the situation at the VAC and embassy. Please post any further comments etc. there.

The British and American embassies are periodically closed during the current emergency. Due, they say, to their proximity to the demonstrations.

UK

See British Embassy Bangkok: Closed to the public.

The VAC is issuing regular updates on their website.

14 May 2010: Visa Application Centre is closed today 14 May! The Visa Application Centre at Regent's House will be closed today Friday 14 May due to the disruption caused by the continued unrest. Please do not come to the Visa Application centre until further notice.

The British Embassy in Bangkok is also closed today. Whilst the Embassy remains closed we are unable to process visa applications so customers may experience delays.

Whilst both the Visa Application Centre and the Embassy remain closed we are also unable to return documents ready for collection. We apologise for the inconvenience. Please continue to monitor this website for updates and further information.

Alternative arrangements are now in place for Thai residents who need to travel urgently to lodge visa applications in other locations:

If you are a 'visit visa' applicant you can apply in another country outside the UK, at any time. Check the 'where to apply' link on the UK Border Agency's website. In this region, we strongly advise you make your application at the Visa Application Centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Appointment booking and address details are available at www.vfs-uk-my.com. You should not apply in Vietnam or Cambodia as applications from these countries are processed in Bangkok. We also recommend against applying in Burma due to the limited capacity of the Post to process applications.

If you are a non-settlement visa applicant you can, until further notice, apply in person at the Visa Application Centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Appointment booking and address details are available at www.vfs-uk-my.com. Please note the current waiting time for visa decisions on non-settlement applications in Kuala Lumpur is approximately 5 working days however customers are reminded that applications are considered on an individual basis and you may have to wait longer for a decision. The UK Border Agency's Customer Service Standards provide further information on our processing time targets.

If you are a settlement visa applicant you can, until further notice, apply in person at the Visa Application Centre in Kuala Lumpur. Appointment booking and address details are available at www.vfs-uk-my.com. Applicants are advised that the current waiting time for a decision on settlement visas is up to 12 weeks. We do however hope to offer a service for settlement visa applicants to apply at the British Embassy Bangkok once it re-opens if the Visa Application Centre remains closed. Please monitor this website for further updates.

They don't appear to say what you should do if you have already submitted an application and been told that your passport is ready for collection. All I can suggest in this circumstance is you monitor the VAC site for updates on when they are open or contact them for advice.

US

From US embassy

Announcement

Due to the security situation in the vicinity of the U.S. Embassy, the Embassy will be closed for services on Monday, May 17. Visa applicants with appointments scheduled for Monday, May 17 are instructed to come for an interview on Friday, May 21 at the same time as their originally scheduled appointment (e.g. If your appointment was scheduled for 9:00am on Monday, May 17, please come for your appointment at 9:00am on Friday, May 21). Should you be unable to come to the Embassy on Friday, May 21, please make a new appointment through the appointment system on the U.S. Embassy website: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/non-immigrant...pointments.html. Please be advised that applicants impacted by this closure are being been notified through the e-mail addresses and/or phone numbers supplied during the appointment registration process. Please check your e-mail INBOX and SPAM folders, as some e-mail software may direct our e-mails to the SPAM folder. Only those applicants who were registered with the Embassy for their original appointments on Monday, May 17 will be permitted entry on Friday, May 21.

We ask that you please appear 30 minutes prior to your appointment time on Friday, May 21 to allow time for the enrollment process. Please check the Embassy website prior to your arrival, should the unrest in the vicinity of the Embassy remain ongoing. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please contact visasbkk(at)state.gov.

We appreciate your patience and cooperation.

Non-Immigrant Visa Section

U.S. Embassy, Bangkok, Thailand

To avoid duplication, if you have any comments or updates on the situation at any embassy or VAC, please post them in this topic and not start a new one.

This topic will remain pinned for the duration.

Luke,

Answers to you first question can be found at How do I give notice to marry or register a civil partnership with a registrar? and Marriage and civil partnership: your legal obligations.

As your fiance is subject to immigration control, you will need to give notice at a designated office. All registration offices in Scotland and Northern Ireland are designated offices and 76 offices in England and Wales are designated, see list.

For your second question:-

1) Wont hurt, and will be needed when she comes to apply for indefinite leave to remain in 2 years time.

2) Her nationality is irrelevant.

3) Not at this time, but see Q1 above.

4) Letters addressed to one or other of you at that address, mobile bill, etc. Not essential at this stage, but will be in 2 years time; see Q1 above.

Para EUN2.21 of EUN02 - EEA Family Permits says

EUN2.21 Applications from direct descendants under 18

In order to protect the interests of minors, ECOs should ensure that they have established parental responsibility for children applying for EEA family permits as direct descendants of EEA nationals, particularly where one or both parents will not be accompanying the child to the UK. In these cases it is reasonable to ask for the written consent of the child's parent(s) or legal guardian(s) for the child to travel before issuing the EEA family permit.

(My emphasis)

I do understand that guidance is not the law. However, the ECOs, who are not lawyers, use this guidance to aid them in their decision making. Not being lawyers, they probably believe that this guidance issued by their employer is legal and correct.

Whether it is or not; whether or not Regulation 21 para 4(b ) gives them the legal power to refuse in cases like the OP's where parental responsibility has not been established is moot. They are refusing in such cases, as Flip2000b found out, and in my opinion will continue to do so until instructed otherwise.

I believe that no such instruction will appear until and unless such a refusal is appealed and that appeal is successful. As this would almost certainly mean the case being appealed by one side or the other all the way to the European Court, such an appeal would take a long time to be determined, years maybe.

With respect to yourself, Scouse and TVE, statements by you on an internet forum that ECOs do not have the legal power to act in the way the guidance instructs them to do is not, in my opinion, going to change that.

So it appears to me that Flip2000b, and anyone else in the same position, has a choice. Supply the information and obtain an EEA family permit within days, weeks at most; or insist that you do not have to do so and go through a lengthy appeal process which, even if successful, means it could be several years before the child can join you.

I know what I would do.

Not sure what you mean by

the visa application centre said i could go and see them and they could help us but ive heard bad reviews about them.

The VAC is merely a collection point for applications; they do not, and cannot, offer any advice to applicants. Are you sure it was the VAC who told you this and not the dodgy visa 'agent' operating from Regents House?

Your husband needs to submit the appeal within the deadline, and include any extra documents which may help.

The appeal process is free. However, if it does go to a tribunal then it is advisable to obtain qualified, professional help.

For a brief description of the appeal process, see this post.

If I recall correctly, the visa section was closed for a while after the tsunami as the visa staff were drafted in to help the consular staff with the extra workload.

Maybe a similar position during this crisis?

My wife's oral English is good and she has many English friends from playgroup and school probally due to the fact that she doesn't have any Thai friends here, however having three children age 1,4 & 5 has made attending english courses difficult. When all the children are at school fulltime im sure she'll be enrolling at the local college.

The local college course here is only one half-day a week

We know people who have sat the course, and in this area it is usually one or two mornings a week. Surely your wife can find someone to look after the children for her on that basis? What about evening classes?

I know from experience that she will need to show a reference letter from her employer, a minimum of 6 months payslips dating back 6 months from her visa application, plus a bank account book again dating back 6 months prior to her visa application in her name that shows money going in and living expenses coming out.

Not necessarily. As said by others, if the OP is paying for the visit then it is the OP that has to show he has the finances to afford it.

This is proof that she is actually employed, is earning a wage and has a job to return to.

The problem, again as said previously, isn't proving that she has been employed; it is whether the ECO will believe that her employer will really grant her three months holiday; most Thais only get two weeks.

If not possible, you have big problems and the odds are that the visa application will not be successful.

A trawl through the archives will show that plenty of people have successfully obtained a visit visa for their Thai partner when that partner has had no proof of employment or income; again it depends on the individual circumstances.

It is precisely because I am not a professional that I have been trying to get a simple, plain English explanation. One that you, Scouse, have been unwilling to provide; although finally you do come close in your last post.

I admit to having difficulty understanding what you have said. The language you have used is, to a mere ex-driving instructor, confusing. I can't believe that you answer questions from your clients in such technical legal jargon and Latin, so I wonder why you do so here.

Perhaps if you had used plain English previously you would not have been so frustrated by TV's members failure to understand you that you would not feel the need for comments like

I don't intend to pursue this discussion any further, and indeed, my involvement in this thread has reminded me of why I generally stay away from this forum

and instead of staying away you would still feel able to be involved in this forum; offering members the advice of a well qualified professional instead of them having to rely on a mere ex driving instructor and a few other unqualified amateurs (TVE excepted, of course).

However, as I was not around when you decided to effectively retire from this forum, I am just speculating.

Paully TVE and yourself have indeed opined that the refusal is wrong. I have attempted to understand why this is so by asking questions. I am sorry that my doing so has offended you; but I was always taught that asking questions aids understanding and learning.

My, possibly ignorant, belief is that until instructed otherwise ECOs will continue to follow the guidance given them and refuse EEA permits from children unless the sponsoring parent supplies some evidence of responsibility, as happened to the OP. That is why I say that it will be up to the courts to decide if this is legal or not; should someone decide to appeal such a refusal.

Please do not post all in bold italics; it makes it difficult to read.

I have deleted your duplicate topic.

To answer your questions.

1) At the moment, no limit; but who knows about the future. Labour were looking at the possibility of imposing a limit in late 2008, but nothing came of it.

2) Only time will tell. I can't see the KOL requirement being abolished. To most people, me included, it makes sense for those who wish to live indefinitely in a country to be able to communicate in the language of that country. (Before you ask; yes, I am learning Thai.)

3) This requirement has been in force for some time now; I imagine that most people's experience is that they have knuckled down and passed the LitUK test or progressed one level on a relevant course. It's not difficult and most people seem able to manage it, even those with young children. Still, up to you if you want to continue paying an ever increasing fee every two years.

My wife got both her ILR and her British citizenship before this requirement was introduced. However, she did attend English classes, even though we had a young daughter. She did so because she wanted to be able to communicate with people, to make English friends, to be able to work. She wanted to be able to lead an active life in the UK; not be stuck at home with only a few Thai friends to talk to and having to rely on me every time she wanted to speak to the doctor or similar; or even just go shopping!

I have stated many times why I think regulation 21 para 4(b ) seems to cover this. It seems to me to be saying that a minor cannot be refused on public policy, public security and public health grounds. Which is why it's in that section; it's saying that the section doesn't apply to minors, except on imperative security grounds, unless it is in his best interests. That is, a child can be refused if the refusal is in the interests of that child.

It also seems that this is the view taken by the UKBA, otherwise why have Para EUN2.12 in the ECGs?

You say it does not mean this. Fair enough; you are the professional, not I. Yet I cannot understand why it does not.

To give me this understanding, I have repeatedly asked you for an opinion of what this regulation actually does mean. You have yet again merely stated what, in your opinion, it does not mean.

As you are unwilling to answer the question, I can only repeat what I said in my previous.

The regulation is there and Para EUN2.21 of the ECGs appears to be guidance to ECOs on interpreting and applying it when dealing with EEA applications from children.

Whether this does actually have any legal basis is not for us to decide; it is for the courts. I am assuming that no judgment by any court or tribunal, up to and including the European Court of Justice, has been made on this point; otherwise I am sure that you would have cited it before now.

See this thread for some ideas about insurance; plus the legalities of driving in the UK with a foreign licence.