RPCVguy

Starting with a novel (new) virus that became a global pandemic, I look at the current case rates being higher while death rates being lower as the consequence of medical hard work and the public fear that is only now releasing. Mistakes were made in every nation. 20/20 hindsight makes 2nd guessing decisions easy now. Those nations with the greatest resources had let down their guard, while nations with fewer resources ranged from low to high consequences based upon factors still being assessed. Bottom line, Thailand did avoid the higher death tolls per capita and has much of its population vaccinated. Some of the lighter shading on the map attached will be because of less focused counting, but Thailand has less than a sixth of Covid-19 related deaths of the United States, so even some accounting issues aside, Thailand did well - over the 3 years so far.

From the original post, looking beyond the slur about foreigners...
It says " contamination with such items as bedding, towels or clothes, "
which makes me wonder... What will happen after someone with monkey-pox arrives at a hospital and put their arm into the blood pressure sleeve? Will subsequent users be infected?

14 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Crime is on the rise in the US. Statistics can be misleading. Ask any American who lives in a big city. Violence is up. Theft is skyrocketing. It is a thoroughly broken society. 

When quoting statistics such as deaths (whether by Covid or by guns) the stats can be in terms of absolute numbers or they can be reported as deaths per 100,000 or per million. Absolute numbers will consistently look worse in the most populated cities and states, but the rates per 100,000 as shown in this 2020 Pew Research graphic can be surprising.
As noted in earlier comments, over half the deaths are due to suicide. Murders will be numerically higher where there are the most people, but small towns like Uvalde, TX demonstrate that they can happen anywhere. That statistic (murder vs suicide) is not one I've found separated out in any consistent manner. Maybe someone else has been more successful.

As for the law in California... it is a way to push back at the long term inoperability for society to have vigilante snitch laws like in Texas regarding abortion. Neither law should stand, but it will take a rebalancing of the Supreme Court to get that accomplished.

On 2/8/2022 at 10:50 AM, RPCVguy said:

Covid-19 is a viral infection that has a higher risk for death than the flu, and a far higher risk of death than a cold. Death happening or not is a big issue, but not the only issue. The infectiousness runs the risk of overwhelming the hospitals and health care systems - which then block access needed by people suffering all the other major maladies of traffic accidents, heart attacks, and the full assortment of diseases the hospitals normally treat.
Lastly, some 30% of those who survive the infection still have symptoms for months longer. The worst cases have permanent damage such as scaring of lung or heart tissue. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351  The virus may also have some of the ongoing nastiness of Herpes, HIV and Chickenpox (which comes back as shingles.)
For these many reasons, Covid-19 needs to be taken seriously with precautions to avoid its spread. Precautions include wearing masks, social distancing, avoiding crowds, and getting vaccinated/ boosted.

The Guardian published an interactive graphic recently that shows how some anti-vaxers abuse statistics.
See The simple numbers every government should use to fight anti-vaccine misinformation | Australia news | The Guardian
I like it because they also updated what the survival rates were in NSW for vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age group.

If looking through another site is too much, I spotted this composite image of the data presented by The Guardian.

Thailand has done well in getting much of its population vaccinated, especially after the rough start through mid-2021. Vaccinations, mask wearing and some aspects of rural people getting sunlight and fresh air have helped reduce the incidence of serious illness in Thailand vs many other nations.
For all of the above good results, pandemic weariness is here. The desire to stop wearing masks and to socialize risks again spreading the disease exponentially to the millions in Thailand who are not yet fully vaccinated, still making calls for a reopening of the nation a risky option.
February began the vaccination of children ages 5-11. It will take at least 2 months, likely 3 months to give two jabs to this age group, reducing much of the opportunity for spread that way, even as older citizens complete their series of vaccinations. The transition to reopening the society has begun, but it needs be a cautious and staged transition.

Since some indicated they were confused by the prior post - here it is in simpler terms:
The vaccines are doing what they were designed to do - they reduce hospitalizations and deaths. They DO NOT do as well at reducing infection. Only masks and care in social distancing does that. Omicron is less dangerous than Delta but is more infectious, so hospitalizations in the USA hit new peaks despite the milder likelihood per case. During the Omicron wave, the metric to watch and respond to is community/ provincial hospitalizations, not cases.
In the USA it is the CDC that tracks and reports (monthly.) From their reporting at
• https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination
In December (during Omicron), compared to fully vaccinated persons in each group shown below, the monthly rates of COVID-19-associated hospitalizations were:
16X Higher in Unvaccinated Adults Ages 18 Years and Older
8x Higher in Unvaccinated Adolescents Ages 12-17 Years
12x Higher in Unvaccinated Adults Ages 18-49 years
18x Higher in Unvaccinated Adults Ages 50-64 years
18x Higher in Unvaccinated Adults Ages 65 Years and Older
This resembles the data from the UK as reported in the Guardian. Those people with known comorbidity complications will fare better if vaccinated than if not. If their community is midst an outbreak, they  are well justified to still wear a mask even if mask requirements are dropped.

Covid-19 is a viral infection that has a higher risk for death than the flu, and a far higher risk of death than a cold. Death happening or not is a big issue, but not the only issue. The infectiousness runs the risk of overwhelming the hospitals and health care systems - which then block access needed by people suffering all the other major maladies of traffic accidents, heart attacks, and the full assortment of diseases the hospitals normally treat.
Lastly, some 30% of those who survive the infection still have symptoms for months longer. The worst cases have permanent damage such as scaring of lung or heart tissue. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351  The virus may also have some of the ongoing nastiness of Herpes, HIV and Chickenpox (which comes back as shingles.)
For these many reasons, Covid-19 needs to be taken seriously with precautions to avoid its spread. Precautions include wearing masks, social distancing, avoiding crowds, and getting vaccinated/ boosted.

The Guardian published an interactive graphic recently that shows how some anti-vaxers abuse statistics.
See The simple numbers every government should use to fight anti-vaccine misinformation | Australia news | The Guardian
I like it because they also updated what the survival rates were in NSW for vaccinated vs unvaccinated by age group.

If looking through another site is too much, I spotted this composite image of the data presented by The Guardian.

Thailand has done well in getting much of its population vaccinated, especially after the rough start through mid-2021. Vaccinations, mask wearing and some aspects of rural people getting sunlight and fresh air have helped reduce the incidence of serious illness in Thailand vs many other nations.
For all of the above good results, pandemic weariness is here. The desire to stop wearing masks and to socialize risks again spreading the disease exponentially to the millions in Thailand who are not yet fully vaccinated, still making calls for a reopening of the nation a risky option.
February began the vaccination of children ages 5-11. It will take at least 2 months, likely 3 months to give two jabs to this age group, reducing much of the opportunity for spread that way, even as older citizens complete their series of vaccinations. The transition to reopening the society has begun, but it needs be a cautious and staged transition.

AstraZenica is vouching for its efficacy against Omicron when 3 shots were taken, but what about Sinovac then AstraZenica, then a booster of AstraZenica? That is the sequence offered to many people throughout Thailand. (though the cities are again first to have the option of #3 being an mRNA vaccine.)
Thai virologists say studies are underway or done, but I struggle to ever see the published findings. ... especially peer reviewed findings.
I hope it works, but am not eager to be required to trust in it. As of yesterday, I was told at our local hospital that while Pfizer shot #2 is being administered today, I will not be allowed to get a booster here until next month - and at that time they will give me a 2nd AZ as a booster. "Maybe later" is when I might hope to finally get an mRNA.
Those who waited for Pfizer for their 1st jab had to wait locally 2½ months more than I was willing to wait for my first jab.

Multiple studies now back up the idea first published in NATURE back in April - that mixing the Oxford–AstraZeneca jab and the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine triggers an immune response similar to — or even stronger than — two doses of either vaccine.
• https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

Best to act quickly on selling these variegated plants. One of these days the people who invested too heavily will find themselves facing the bust that happened to tulips in the Netherlands.
See https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.asp

22 hours ago, khunPer said:

Regarding the comments above, unfortunately Dr. Yong Poovorawan is right...

 

Reuters 16th December...

WHO makes interim recommendations for mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines

 

SCMP 17th December...

Coronavirus: WHO gives the nod for mix-and-match vaccine schedules

 

WHO 16th December...

Interim recommendations for heterologous COVID-19 vaccine schedules

Thanks for these links, especially the third one which accesses a PDF showing various studies (including from Thailand) as to mix-n-match approach/ results. The results of AZ followed by Pfizer have been published since April, and repeated as listed (again in Nature at https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2)

I saw the Philippines is looking at boosting involving Sinovac and Sinopharm followed by AZ then Pfizer, but the study has not issued its report yet.

Bangkok provides access now to Pfizer after many options as in a related post here in Aseannow: (emphasis mine)

Quote

 

"BANGKOK (NNT) - The Central Vaccination Center at Bang Sue Grand Station will begin registering people via mobile networks for booster shots using the Pfizer vaccine.

This round of registrations is intended for people who received either two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine; a mix-vaccination with the first dose being the Sinovac or Sinopharm jab, followed by AstraZeneca; or the Pfizer vaccine as their second injection following an initial dose of either the Sinovac or Sinopharm jab. The interval between the second dose and the booster must also be 90 days or longer."

 

As with earlier in the vaccine rollout, the mRNA options are most easily available in Bangkok and then in the bigger cities. Our local hospital says they won't start boosters until January. Worse for me, I've been told only AZ will be available as a booster. If I want/ desire mRNA, I'll need to wait longer (??) or find a ride to a city.

On 9/13/2021 at 8:54 AM, IamNoone88 said:

This will not work as there is no reference to your ID card, which is what the airlines will check and then cross reference to the vaccination reference number. I suspect that the 13 digits are on the vaccination are only coincidence and offers no match to the ID being carried.

I used the pink ID card when I got vaccinated, and in my vaccination process (2nd dose) I was given a paper certificate identifying vaccines by lot# and date. The certificate used the same 13 digit # as my pink card, but my name and address was entirely in Thai. After getting jabbed and waiting the half hour to be observed for effects, I went back, said I needed something in English, and for my passport# to be included. 
A 2nd Cert was generated - including my name/ address in English, plus adding my passport #. The QR code is the same. I scanned both to my computer, inserted the English version into the back of my passport (the only time I'll need it is if I leave) and have the Thai version in a zip-lock bag for examination if needed.

As for the App - my phone is only used as a phone, not connected to the internet. Can a person log onto MorProm via computer, and get the image to store on their phone that way? Hmmmm?

1 hour ago, AnotherFarang8 said:

Let me give a simple example of logic failure. According to scientists’ and doctors’ own claims, covid is more infectious than flu, especially the delta variant. According to statistics from previous years, up to 1 billion people over the world would fall sick to flu every year. Covid should have infected at least that many. But all we keep reading is that bs number of infections they keep peddling to us, much lower than the flu’s yearly. But based on their own research covid spreads faster or at least as fast as flu. Don’t start with masks stopping it, not those thin surgical masks that everyone wears anyhow, half of whom with their nose fully exposed.

 

Conclusion: covid has infected 1 billion people already. Likely more. You can’t claim covid is more infectious than flu and show the number of infections 5 times less than flu at the same time. It makes no sense. It’s either one or the other, not both claims at the same time. Just one example of mass scale brainwashing. Now you can do the math of mortality once you figure out the true number of infections.

 

It’s very likely covid infections reached half a billion or more in 2020 already, before any vaccinations began. Based on the same claim that it’s more infectious than flu. This claim was made as early as March 2020, it’s when i first read it and it was confirmed multiple times after that.

Your logic is comparing apples to oranges. ... in several ways.
1) Covid was more infectious than the flu, BUT people took active measures in social distancing and masks wearing to avoid allowing it to spread as much as the flu.
... thus it did NOT spread as widely as it would have. WHY did they take those measures? Because SARS-CoV-2 proved itself to be a more severe disease,and wherever it broke out, the hospitals filled up and people got stacked in morgues awaiting burial or cremation. The rate of infection was not long allowed to expand freely because of the consequences.
This throws out your conclusions.

2) The infection rate of DELTA is several times higher than the earlier variants. Delta requires greater vigilance, not comparisons to the flu or presumptions as to its prior reach. It is what arrived in Thailand about the time of the Songkran holiday, and its rapid spread got away from what had been a fairly successful program of contact tracing. It has taken an intensified vaccination program putting the highest resources into the most infested areas to BEGIN to slow the spread. The vaccination program has only recently gotten to a high enough portion of those hotspots that the case counts are coming down. Outside those hotspots, the percent of the population who've been vaccinated  is minuscule.  Opening up too quickly will only guarantee many more months of trouble. Continued vaccinations to get 2 shots minimum for over half the population in all provinces must remain the primary focus.

Poor logic and analysis of what has gone past will not help into the future.
 

55 minutes ago, cjinchiangrai said:

A road death today does not create ten more next week. Covid does.

 

I agree with CCSA, keep things tight for a few more months to bring the vaccination numbers up.

Thank you! You are the first in this thread to point out that Covid-19 spreads exponentially, where one case leads to more  UNLESS PEOPLE PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING. That has been the function enforced by the lockdowns that many here seem so intent upon ignoring.
Add in the problem that Thailand's push for vaccinating people has reached (on first doses) 32.9% of the population by the end of August vs only 19.5% at the beginning ... BUT it takes generally TWO DOSES to fully sensitize our immune systems to the molecular traits of the virus. Thailand (per https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-vaccinated-covid?country=THA~IDN~MYS~PHL~USA and related site data is only at 11.1% FULLY VACCINATED. Compare that to the results in the USA where even the lesser vaccinated states are over 39% fully vaccinated. https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker/

Thai people are helping get by with less vaccinations so far by being better at wearing masks, and by social distancing, but it will take several more months of high vaccination counts per day to get the risks of Covid caused hospitalizations down to levels where opening up can be safely done. Before that, the exponential growth of an opportunistic virus will stymie attempts to jump start the economy.

Oh, and People can also check the worldometers site and see Thailand has moved from 7th t0 6th position for number of Severe and Critical cases of Covid... This has got to be wearing heavily on all the Doctors and nurses, particularly those in the Dark Red zones..

On 9/3/2021 at 10:24 PM, Airalee said:

All those links are to the same preliminary study which is neither peer reviewed nor does it consider long term effects.  I’m not anti vaccine…but when it comes to mixing up a cocktail of different vaccines, I think I’ll sit this one out until time has proven the efficacy and safety of it.

Same two vaccines, different studies. This is as published in Nature Medicine
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01463-x

2 hours ago, Pracha Duang said:

yep, at least you somewhat understand what is going on. Covid has always been about power, money, and control. The plebs are low information so they are easy to manipulate. The plebs do not seem to understand that the top 1% have all 100-1000xd their net-worth during covid and that covid has been massively beneficial for us. Meanwhile the 99% will all be crushed financially by inflation due to extreme monetary policies that have been taken “by design”. The middleclass is being systematically wiped out “by design” and everyone is too distracted by “what is basically the flu” to comprehend what is really happening to them. The entire point of covid is to create a permanent global slave class for the 1%. I’m literally part of the 1% so I would know. The elites will not need to hire Burmese for slave labor in the not so distant future. Their own citizens will be more than happy to take those jobs very soon. You think people are desperate now? You haven’t seen anything yet. 

I'm not willing to agree that there was a plan to do what is happening, at least not at first. I will agree on the consequences unfolding and that the 0.01% is doing what they can to wring all the benefits they can. That's what typically is done by those with the resources to weather the early disruptions and realign the policies of what they control. It is still IMO a short term strategy. Limits to Growth (the 1972 report by MIT) AND climate disruptions are each set to add bigger consequences that Covid has thus far leveled. ... So yes, we haven't seen anything yet.
 

52 minutes ago, Guderian said:

Why focus so much on case numbers, especially asymptomatic ones? Please tell us the most important number, how many avoidable deaths will be caused by reopening. After all, most people recover when they get Covid, but death is final.

As of yesterday, Thailand was listed on the Johns Hopkins website as being #10 on Covid Cases over the last 28 days. More consequential is that it was #7 on the Worldometers database list when sorted for severe or critical cases in hospitals.
Those stats put Thailand's current numbers in the range of far larger nations - most with greater resources.

AS MANY HAVE SAID, GETTING PEOPLE VACCINATED EFFECTIVELY NEEDS BE THE #1 PRIORITY AT THIS TIME.
Also IMO, MoPH has done the best they can with the vaccines in hand, but the unpublished study as to Mix-n-Match still needs to report on how quickly the efficacy of those two doses wears off. That's when a round of booster shots will be needed, sufficient to rapidly accommodate the full need of the people.

Falling short of that, and not masking effectively? That's being done in the states of Florida, Louisiana and Texas among others in the USA. I see those as large scale cult followings that far surpass what Jonestown, Guyana saw in 1978. Sad what cults can do to their followers.

16 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I suggest you look at Australia news, aussie is a nut house now, NZ following suit with protestors in the streets today against lockdown, Delta can not be controlled, wait and watch NZ break out all over as the transmitters have been to casinos ,pubs cafes everywhere even the Auckland Hospital .

You've pointed out that people can behave in an out of control manner. The 1918 flu was dealt with by masks and social distancing. Today there are many people who feel that natural processes should not be allowed to influence their behavior. Vaccines can advance the process of gaining freedom,but the behavior of people as a community is step #1.

18 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

I think it has reached the point where highly vaccinated countries are seeing new waves of Delta breaking out.

So why go into MIQ if you've had 2 jabs of a vaccine that can not stop you being infected or transmitting Delta (this just happened in NZ a fully vaccinated nurse 2x shots of pfizer is infected and transmitting Delta) now we are in lockdown.

India's population now showing covid antibodies ,67% of them at the last count.

The have a very low vaccination rate.

So you enter XXX country vaccinated, you can get infected as it's all over the place and you can transmit it , but you may not die or need so much health care.

So  open the gates, that seems to be the idea, it's out of control world wide and if India is an example I think vaccination which now looks to be unable to control Delta may fade out and Herd immunity will prevail, just as it did with the Spanish flue-- no vaccine for that and it died. 

It is not out of control world wide, but it is spreading too rapidly for hospitals to handle in some places like from Florida to Texas in the USA. Vaccine control is desired but is currently insufficient. Mask and social distancing control is the viable option until vaccinations can get to enough people to avoid the consequences of Delta in unvaccinated people - children are at the mercy of the adults around them.

1 hour ago, rickthompson said:

There is no data. Thailand is the first country trying this combination according to the article. How much testing could possibly have been done? More false bravado...

Well the multi quote didn't connect...
Back when the new policy was announced in July, the online version of NBT World posted a link on their Facebook page to a video that had graphics running too.
1) NBT World | Why is Thailand mix-matching vaccines? A video in English posted on Facebook by NBT World. Bar charts are at the 4:52 mark - worth pausing and considering. The Bar charts suggest a study was run, data generated. The problem is that I've yet to find the actual study or any peer review. Even what was posted only had an (n) of 36 and 2 for the 2 chosen policy options.

2) shortly afterwards The Nation posted an image with a slightly higher number of participants (75 and 35) which can be seen at:
https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40003742

As people have noted, several nations have started with AZ as the first dose and then mixed with an mRNA. The Health Ministry in Canada does note that the minimum time between 1st and 2nd dose should still be observed for whatever was the 1st dose. That favors giving Sinovac first because it has the shortest time between doses. A study in Nature suggests mix-n-match has advantages
A ‘mix and match’ approach to SARS-CoV-2 vaccination | Nature Medicine

The bottom line is that people globally want vaccines that are in short supply, especially the mRNA varieties. Different nations chose different options early on as to which vaccines to order, but the people in each nation are in a race to get their immune system inoculated ASAP with the best they can get so as to best hope to fight the DELTA variant when it reaches them. I signed up on August 1st for the expatvac site, and have heard nothing from them since. They are definitely focused on the Bangkok area first. Last week, when my local district office offered a mass vaccination day, I got in line and got a jab of Sinovac. In 3 more weeks I'm scheduled for AZ. NEXT YEAR when my private hospital finally gets Moderna, I and my family here will pony up the cash and get those shots. IMO, the Thai medical system is doing the best they can with the options they have been given. I hope it will be enough.

1 hour ago, Saltire said:

Local poo yai today, for the first time asked for anyone wanting Sinovac to attend on 3 days this month in Sangkhla Buri. Sangkhla Buri is pretty much locked down now with many large clusters and outbreaks in factories. His advice - go early it will be busy! It's about an hours drive for me.

 

Also for the first time, anyone under 60 can go but only 500 per day will get a jab. This area while small in relative terms has many thousands of Thai and a handful of farang, as well as a high percentage of migrant workers, being home to the 3 Pagodas border pass to Myanmar. Again for the first time all are eligible, including me, if I wasn't 66, and migrant workers.

 

Kanchanburi is deep red but so far vaccines of any kind are conspicuous by their absence.

 

I agree with the view that we are entering a period of offloading SInovac wherever they can. I just hope they are not stupid or deparate enough to order more.

 

This whole expatvac is just another exercise in false hope, won't be long before reports come in of appointments too far from home, and turning up to not get Pfizer.

 

 

Our local Amphur started a 7-day mass vaccination campaign yesterday. With the Delta as contagious as it is, trying to gamble on getting fully vaccinated with Pfizer seems a stretch too far. I went to the vaccination site, got in the queue and was vaccinated about an hour later. Looks like they were jabbing 1-2 people a minute with Sinovac as first dose, AstraZenica for those few getting their 2nd dose. I'd been communicating with the nurse in charge of registrations since late May. As they were packing up I asked if the health workers had gotten Pfizer. "Yes, but not enough for everyone." was her answer.
Bottom line about Sinovac as I shared with friends and family in the USA:

13 hours ago, impulse said:

I put the Sino's under the category of "better than nothing".  If the mRNA's and AZ didn't exist, people would be jumping all over a vaccine that reduced their odds of dying by 50%.  The reality is that the mRNA's are a long way out in Thailand.  The most reasonable course of action would be to jab people with the Sino's they can buy today, then fortify it with mRNA or AZ as soon as it's available.

 

The biggest fear is that getting the Sino would preclude them from their preferred vaccine in the future.  Either because their name shows up as "fully vaccinated" or because some idiot in gub'ment decides not to order enough mRNA and AZ because they got the Sino's.  Both are easy for the gub'ment to neutralize by declaring the Sino's will be fortified as soon as they get the doses they ordered.  Of course, that means they have to order them.   Not discuss them, not plan them...  

 

Then instead of 20,000 cases and 200 deaths a day, they can cut it by 50% while waiting on the good stuff.  That's a lot of lives saved, even if it's not all of them.

 

This is the best comment I spotted , and it came early midst many comments. You've covered getting the jabs ASAP, using what has already been purchased, AND you've covered the concern of people like be as to keeping options open for what are demonstrating to be more effective vaccines. If this government policy stated its policy included regular people (not only those on the medical front-lines) being able to boost their initial vaccinations with what will be arriving in 2022, then it would simplify choices now for people who don't live in or near Bangkok.

It is a matter of getting people vaccinated ASAP. The behavior in some states of the USA certainly shows the high penalty in hospitalizations and deaths for places that simply choose to neither vaccinate nor control their social interactions. This article from July states Malaysia has already secured 45 million doses of the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.  Surely Thailand could do (have done) similarly. The best time to act was months ago, but the next best time is now.

Last comment on the issue - as affects expats: I'll note that yesterday I saw a commenter saying he was about to make a 3 hour drive to Bangkok, basically telling expats in distant provinces, those awaiting an email about their chance for some of the donated Pfizer vaccine, to just get in a car a get there. At 3 hours I would find a way, but its 2 hours for me to just get to Lampang. Bangkok is a lot farther, many more hours, and I no longer drive. Lots of us expats contribute all that we have to our family and rural communities... and immigration sure tracks that monthly cash flow. I would like to hope the authorities see and care about more of the country than the industrial provinces of the Bangkok area. This is an open question. The Pfizer vaccine only requires normal refrigeration after thawing from its initial super cold state - at which it is valid for up to 31 days. It can at least be shipped to each provincial capitol where vaccinations can be carried out for those with appointments.

5 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Nothing happens, your extension has already been approved at that stage.

If through sickness or accident contact the office to explain.

To be requested to return within the last 3 hours of the final day of under consideration is not standard practice and more to do with your particular Immigration office.

 

My extension is due on July 10th.

Last year I applied on June 2nd and was given an under consideration stamp until August 9th.

They rang me on June 16th to say my application was approved and to return for the stamp, which I did the following day on June 17th.

 

It sounds as though your IO isn't helpful or friendly.

What you say makes sense, and is how I would hope would be the case. I don't list where I am because I agree with you assessment of the overall situation.

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

That is standard practice for extensions based on marriage.

Your given an 'under consideration' stamp (not an extension).

All marriage extension applications have to be approved by the regional offices.

 

You return on the date given to collect your now approved new 1 year extension stamp.

It's just unfortunate you have such a long drive.

I am not questioning the stamp, but the danger of having a problem of being present in person during thee stated 3 hour window. I started the process early enough to EXCEED the usual 30 days for a response. Why then am I told NOT TO RETURN UNTIL the last 3 hours of that "under consideration" stamp... with 65 days intervening? What happens to my status if the car breaks down getting there, or an accident, or ...??
Does anyone know what happens then?

I will list what I had to do earlier this month, but also have a question. Though I submitted my extension papers nearly 6 weeks BEFORE by current extension was due (which is more than the 30 days usually needed for turnaround to come back and collect the stamps) I was given a temporary extension till 30-days beyond that date, and told NOT TO RETURN until the afternoon of that last day. ???? This was the same situation last year and puts a burden on arriving during the last 3 hours of a valid stamp... which is why I started so early this year.
HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS DANGEROUS ADDED REQUIREMENT? Last year I arrived in the morning - it is a 2 hr drive and accidents, car problems can happen - and was turned away and told to return in the afternoon.

Okay, now for the details of the paperwork this year. It came to 60 pages of originals and a complete duplicate set was taken this time (most years I end up getting that one back.)
Fortunately I started early with a visit to confirm needs and after asking about details and saying I'd pass them on, I was handed a checklist that the IO worked off of - printed as an internal document that was submitted with the foreigner's file. I thought my family mistranslated the financial details, but it turned out to be absolutely required

1.      TM 7 with 4x6 cm photo side up (They will add a stamp to fill in Phone# & email)
2.      Photocopy of the name & photo pages of your passport; then a photocopy of each pair of passport pages, most recent stamped pages first. Finally include a copy of the Departure card, 90 Day receipt and TM.30
3.      Marriage continuing documentation from Amphur คร2 (Kɔɔ Rɔɔ 2) คร.2  AND photocopies of our original marriage registration certificates (Kɔɔ Rɔɔ 2&3) คร3 & คร2. A photocopy of spouse's Thai National ID card AND a photocopy of each page of the household Tambien Baan (blue registration book) …. If you have one, a photocopy of your foreigner’s yellow registration book
4.      Certified bank statements showing all activity for 6 months,  AND a bank certification letter documenting the account and balance of at least ฿400K AND photocopies of each page of your account books – including the bank book account name page .
5.      Completed "Acknowledgement of Penalties of Visa Overstay" AND a completed "Acknowledgement of Terms and Conditions for Permit of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand"
6.        Completed Map form for immigration to locate my home. Be sure to use the form (as typeset and used in your province.) I used the same wording different formatting from another province and had to cut and paste my map onto their form.
7.      A wide-angle photo showing me & my spouse in front of our home, with street number showing. Include THREE other photos of us in our home doing everyday activities. 2 landscape photos printed per page positioned with 3 to 4 inches of space at the bottom for a stamp which as in all photocopies will need to be signed and dated.

I KNOW the requirements OFTEN vary from province to province. This was my experience this year in a northern province. The IO did say that the laws had changed since last year and they may change again next year.
 

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Interesting. What make Lampang so much worse than Lamphun? Ranong has no major highways and is not a thoroughfare province? Yet Nan is quite high up there.

I don't know the details to prove this, but would suggest looking at where the new construction in a province has gone through existing communities. Speed on the open roadways is certainly one consideration as to deaths, but what about the current highway expansion construction seemingly everywhere. Going through town should involve reduced speeds enforced with traffic lights and speed humps (not speed bumps).
I PREFER bicycling, but our Amphur has had its road widened with no concern as to the community - dividing the main street market with increased traffic that now goes faster due to the widened roads. Different key stores on each side. There are literally no options or consideration given to pedestrians or bikes, and some locations are now inaccessible except by motorized vehicle. For the majority of the inhabitants, that only leaves motorcycles as an option.

On 1/25/2021 at 10:14 PM, Pattaya Spotter said:

Obviously the wrong flats...maybe consider Pattaya or Hua Hin.

On 1/25/2021 at 10:18 PM, Speedhump said:

Utterly shocking. 

On 1/25/2021 at 10:19 PM, KateSpade said:

I gave up, moved to another country - many are doing the same... treated so badly - I just had enough, I'll take my money elsewhere...

Three understandable responses noted, and my 4th. I've lived and loved in several places - coastal, inland, city and suburban, but this rural home has held me longer and kept me happier than any of the rest. This is my wife's hometown and the family knit life here is strong, caring and supportive. I love the quiet that is usually the case in our neighborhood, and it's wonderful to eat the mango, avocado, longkong, etc... assorted fruit from the trees we planted over a dozen years ago that surround and now shade our home.
The foibles of one IO are a definite stress, inconvenience, pain in... , but the pluses in my life outweigh that hassle (and maybe the IO will switch posts and get someone willing to shift procedures more like is done in some of the busier offices.) That last phrase may be the difference. One way or another each officer must always be verifiably overwhelmed in paper work.

10 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Yes it's nice living out in "the sticks," it's the same in Pattaya for any immigration service...easy peasy, including retirement extensions, with no appointment necessary.

10 hours ago, Speedhump said:

I would say you're correct. I need an extension to my 12 month O/A visa which would seem not to be covered in this, but I will just turn up and take a ticket as usual anyway (only a 10 minute drive). 

I live in the sticks, 2 hours drive each way to and from immigration with hours at the office each time ... and my officer requires 3 visits for a marriage extension.
• FIRST VISIT is to physically present oneself TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. During that first visit documents are reviewed. (Even IF everything is in order, including bank certification and all photocopies, they will not be accepted.) Come back again when an appointment is granted on the officer's calendar. Get new bank certification, get new Kor Roh 2 marriage document within the date usable for the new appointment. (No, the IO will NOT answer their phone.)
• SECOND TRIP go through each document again, a return trip set for 30 days later after the marriage documents are reviewed and returned. Ideally the second trip appointment is earlier than 30 days before the expiration of the prior extension. If not, the officer does provide a temporary extension to cover those 30 days. The first trip should be done BEFORE the 45 day window, but I've no knowledge of how long before would be agreeable for making the appointment. Catch-22 if I show up too early, I can hear the IO chastising me for my presumptuousness now. 
• THIRD TRIP to have the stamp added to your passport. DON'T attempt to arrive earlier than those 30 days, don't even attempt to arrive in the AM for a PM assigned appointment (my error last year.) This is all rather nerve racking because a traffic accident, illness, whatever... means your extension in your passport has expired.

PS My step daughter drives and my wife accompanies me on these annual episodes, so 3 days effort for each of us... to an office that still has a waiting room with the 90-day report line and other people making appointments.

I came across this bit of news today. It is further confirmation that the infection rate of the virus does drop as daily temperatures rise. Current case rate values are a consequence of holiday travel (and testing/ lack thereof) BUT by early February we should start to see temperatures helping to reduce the transmission of the virus. Being a La Nina year, the rainy season is also likely to begin early, with the rain also helping.

The news is located in this post http://berkeleyearth.org/colder-weather-and-increasing-coronavirus-covid-19-spread/

"Recently, a systematic review of 17 research papers concluded that temperature and humidity were likely to have an effect on COVID-19 disease transmission, though the evidence remained of low quality, and the effect was likely of less importance than other variations in human behavior (e.g. group gatherings, mask-wearing). The evidence supported a view that COVID-19 spreads somewhat less rapidly in warm, wet environments.

"Another possible environment change during cold weather is a reduction in sunlight and ultraviolet radiation. Similar to temperature, we find that R values increased from 1.0 to 1.2 coincident with declines in sunlight or ultraviolet (UV) exposure." This data SHOULD help all people in the tropics, but many work indoors and lose the benefit. Even outdoor workers cover up so much as to not get the UV not get the Vitamin D that is getting recognition as a key vitamin for boosting immunity.