Indra

I heard from my army friend that the Reds would go underground, this will lead to the Yellows doing the same, so we will end up with an underground civil war in the heart of BKK akin the problems down south. My heart bleeds for the normal people of Thailand who want a normal harrasment free life. Its so different here than 10 years ago when I first came, its kind of depressing.

Are you sure?

It's really bad.

Fair election can be done despite some effort to buy votes.

You can see the election in Aceh (North of Sumatra Island, Indonesia), a father of one candidate MP distributed sarong to villagers, but in fact the candidate got much less votes then the number of distributed sarongs, now the father is trying to ask the sarongs to be returned to him ; Another astonishing fact is no action from the legal enforcement to this vote buying case, perhaps because the candidate has lost the election already?

Back to case in Thailand, poor people can always accept money from any candidate, but they can simply vote to the candidates, who are closer to their heart.

This knowledge must be distributed to the people.

Lots of crocodile tears. Not nice from the reds not nice from the yellows, not nice from the blues. But in the end we deal with a deputy PM who is responsible for national security and who failed the Nation by not having his affairs in order. Let's see if he is man enough to tell the Nation that he has failed and is part of this mess too and therefore he will go.

Regarding the victims, I would not be surprised if many more have died indeed with so much ammunition. Any government has the right to end lawlessness, but the problem is that this government came to power due to the lawlessness incited by others who got even rewarded with a cabinet post. I am afraid that this mess will repeat itself over and over again in the next few years, till a real compromise has worked out. Still I see comments that the rural poor are too stupid to understand politics, these statement is even repeated by foreigners who have no clue who have been informed in the bars of BKK. But let's see it is a great time to sent red shirt leaders together with the yellow shirt leaders to jail, maybe they learn to work out things in the next ten years together.

Totally agree.

Yes, Red Shirt (RS), Yellow Shirt (YS) and Blue Shirt (BS), they may express their mind, but when they interfere with public interest, then it is time for law enforcement to take action.

there is no doubt about money being offered to protestors, my friend was in a hair salon on bkk 3 days ago and they offered her 500 baht to join, she would have to leave her I.D card with them and report to someone. They must act as agents i guess. How can anyone believe the red shirts are genuine in their beliefs when they are gettting paid for it!

Think about labour unions in europe and states. They go on strike and members are getting paid daily allowances by the union for doing so. Do you think they do not believe in their cause and are on strike just because of the money they receive from the union ?

Also organizing months long protests is not cheap, think about all the water, food, infrastructure, power bills etc etc that goes into it.

I would be more interested to see where the money is coming from ? And don't tell me it's paid by Thaksin, the man is not in Bangkok and hardly has that much cash on him as his bank accounts are seized. I mean who are paying the bills in practise on the ground ?

When PAD was on demonstration, Yellow Shirts were paid too.

It didn't mean that we can simply have doubt on what Yellow Shirts' belief.

The end of the all-too-messy demonstration is near.

Message from Bangkokians to Red Shirts: Go home.

And then what? Thaksin is not about to give up his goal of returning as the conquering hero to the adulation of his supporters to wreak his terrible revenge on those perceived to have acted against him. He would rather see Thailand slide back into the morass of poverty and tribalism than back off and let things be.

However the genie is out of the bottle and they've thrown away the stopper. If the reds win then democracy in Thailand is a dead issue, Thaksin will return and resume his rape and pillage of the country and it's resources. He will rewrite the constitution and laws to suit him and allow him to become president in perpetuity, supreme emperor, master of all. If the reds are driven out of Bangkok they will continue to be a nuisance force disrupting Thai life as and when they feel like it and it won't be long before they cotton on to the value of targetting tourists and foreign interests within the Kingdom.

[ deleted - MiG16]

This was a tongue in cheek suggestion but maybe it might prove more attractive in light of recent events.

Nah, you have been dreaming too far.

I believe that although the reds love Thaksin, [deleted] It is just a matter that Thaksin has smartly (or cunningly) won the heart of the poor.

Why would there have to be a good school everywhere. Thailand isn't a rich country just center it around important places. If you want your child to go somewhere you should move closer to the spots. Even in Holland it was quite normal for ppl to either find a room close to school or travel 4 hours a day to a school. If you want something it can be done.

Things don't always have to be handed to you you have to put a lil effort in it. You put effort in it and she got her education... good. I have seen ppl from other provinces study in BKK its quite normal.

You cant expect a good school everywhere within walking distance.

I am more pro democrats then pro taksin but i think all them are big crooks who only care about their own money. It really doesnt mather much who is in charge they are there for their own not to help the ppl.

Your reply is absolutely mind-boggling! I can see you have never visited people in a small village in the North and Northeast. "Even in Holland" indeed. I suspect you have no idea of what life is like for low income people in The Netherlands, much less a poorer country like Thailand.

robblok,

I think that there is something wrong with your mind or your standard.

Do you think that everybody has enough money to rent a room? Or you think that they can always sell/rent their body so that they can earn enough money to rent a room.

Nevertheless, I agree with your last sentence, yes, all of them are crooks.

Only in Thailand you can see soldiers are restraining seriously while a civilian is simply (and seriously as well) taking photograph

Not to nitpick, but while the velocity of a falling round certainly does not have the same velocity as a directly-fired round, it still can be deadly. If the woman in our compound in Iraq had been hit in the body armor, the round almost certainly would not have penetrated (as it would have if it had been fired directly at her.) As it was, it hit her in the neck above the collar of her vest, and it killed her. She died within a minute or so.

While Mythbusters certainly provide good entertainment, and they do bust some myths, the fact of the matter is that rounds falling back to earth can still pose a threat. If you hear a lot of gunfire, the prudent thing to do is take some sort of cover (although a spent round may be coming from a rifle fired beyond your hearing.)

I have to laugh when Abhisit says that his troops only fired live bullets into the air. He obviously believes that bullets fired into the air will remain up there forever and never come down somewhere. This guy is beyond ridiculous. Some poor farmer might get hit in the head in the field kilometers away without even knowing where it came from. If you don't want to hurt somebody, don't fire with live bullets, period.

And if you don't want bullets fired, then don't try to kill the soldiers. And yes, a burning runaway bus aimed at a group of people will kill them. And dont throw bricks at unarmed firemen. Or is that okay? And btw, the fireman first went out and tried to ask the reds to NOT throw things at them,. Red response- threw a brick at the guy.

The reds have been the ones starting the violence, trying very hard to provoke a response. The reds have been very lucky so far that so much restraint has been shown.

That's the difficulty between the law enforcer and the outlaw.

With your logic "if you don't want bullets fired, then don't try to kill the soldiers.", it seems that you are just a coleslaw.

Gangsters use violence to pressure somebody to get information they need. Do you think that policemen should follow the way?

I personally beleve a democracy works only in a high educated country, like in Europe US or Australia, etc. In third world countries is better to be in dictatorship, because peaple aren't educated enought to understand politics and economics. I'm not here to critisize reds or yellows, as is not my right or country either, but demonstrations and protesters not solve the problem in both ways, doesn't matter who they are. It just f..ks up the economy and the tourists will not come either, not to mention the global bad situation we have anyway allready. Most of the bargirls and taxidrivers are on red side, but they don't understand that they will not get any income for the next maybe 6 months. Many Protesters are greedy and care only about their daily 1000 Baht they get during a demonstration. Protesters shotting them self in the feet as they gonna lose Jobs and income, therefore democracy not really work. Just a classic example. Paraguay is a military regime for decades and it works fine. Another thing, i'm not a fan of Saddams Regime, but Saddam had his country totally under control. When the Americans came and try to create a democracy in Irak, the troubles started and still not finished yet.

After freed from British colonization, did most Americans were educated?

After French revolution, did most French are educated?

The problem of chaotic situation in several democratized countries are the fight between tiger and lion, both parties are greedy and power hungry.

If only some party wants to educate the people hence delaying their winning in short term but ensure fair election in the future therefore developping for the future of the country; But, who are willing to do so?

did you see the way the thai secret service (??) allowed the protesters to attack abhisits limo? could you imagine how many ppl would have been mowed down by submachine guns if that happened to say, Obama? this is wildness.. heads will roll as soon as they thais figure out who's head is in charge of what.

q

That's the difference between democratically elected and mob-elected.

It is not wildness, but deep in every Thais' heart, they know that current government is not legitimate, and it is worsen when they don't do anything concerning airport closure case.

once and for all. THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS LEGITIMATE.

Abhisit and the democrat party came second after the PPP which came first only because THEY BOUGHT VOTES.

the PPP has been disbanded and disqualified , so its LEGITIMATE that the democrats take over.

if the PPP didn't buy votes the democrats would have been elected anyway .

so once and for all THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT IS LEGITIMATE. that's a fact !

If Abhisit is a real hero, then he should admit that the airport closure is a crime and he must do something against the perpetrators.

If it is true that democrats got the second after PPP, why they don't want to schedule a new election within near future?

I don't know about the result on Dec 2007 election, but I heard something about coalition after Somchai was turned down.

Crazy .

I finally watched the BBC news. I was disgusted by the behavior I saw. I saw red shirted individuals venting anger and violent aggression toward, what appeared to be, the car of The Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand. There was also a male with a shaved head, and orange robe depicting the appearance of a Buddhist monk, punching, kicking and also showing extreme aggression. These sights appalled me. I believe all Thai people will be branded as violent, aggressive, destructive, and lawless people who have no regard for civility or the position of their own Prime minister. There appeared absolutely no respect for this office or status. Another disgusting sight was how Thai police – dressing the part – i.e. crash helmets, shields, batons, merely stood idly by and watched these individuals. What do police in the Kingdom of Thailand do? Are there any laws which might be enforced? I dare not ask if there are any consequences for mis-behavior. I think I already know that answer. I feel sorry for the decent, law abiding, moral Thai people who will bear the scars of contempt by the "free world" as a result of their countrymen and the establishment(s) which are apparently self serving. I also feel sorry for all the devout Buddhists whose religion might be regarded differently as a result of seeing a monk display such behavior. Shame.

It's a pity that the demonstration has gone so far.

Yes, I agree with you, so sorry to see peaceful Buddhism being depicted as violent.

And people in World will think that Thais are violent too.

However, my experience staying Thailand for 1 year plus proofs Thais are nice people, but again, politic is always dirty.

Most of you seem to have a problem with the way the Thais go about things. I have read your vitriol over the past few days about the ineptitude of everyone in this Country from the PM, army, police, farmers etc. In most countries this would have turned into a blood bath by now. Thank god for their "ineptitude". This is a day at the fair compared to your football hooligans every weekend back home. Thank god for the Thais and their culture which is what brought you all here in the first place. I dont imagine any of you packing your bags in a hurry to go find a better place to live. This country will never "go to the dogs" because people like most of you will keep coming here to live out your last sad old days as exchange rate studs. Some posters have called this country "a joke". Correction. The US administration and banking system is a joke. Other jokes included, Canada, Greenland, bolivia, Australia, Cambodia, Italy (Berlusconi/Taksin) Mexico and i have not even touched the middle east need i go on? Nothing would join the red and yellow shirts quicker than for them both to read the spit and scorn in these forums. Nothing joins two foes better than a common enemy. And yes you are right, When we turn nasty we will turn real nasty. Lets hope they are not looking at you. If you all have such disdain for this country's people and their ways then you know where the door is.

For the record. I was on one of those APV's this afternoon. The young soldiers did not want to fight their own people. We pulled them out and they were happy to join us. I am actually in some of the fotos posted above. None of the people i was talking to were getting paid. They were mums, dads, sisters, brothers, grandmothers and all they want is another election and they all said they will accept the outcome. A lot of them don't even like Taksin. They were a people trying to have their say. Maybe if the American people spoke louder in 2004 the world would not be the joke it is today. BUt they would have been teargassed and shot down by swat and branded for life as terrorists on the efficient CIA, NSA, FBI etc computer network. So which is the better Country to live in?

You are right, Thailand is still better

did you see the way the thai secret service (??) allowed the protesters to attack abhisits limo? could you imagine how many ppl would have been mowed down by submachine guns if that happened to say, Obama? this is wildness.. heads will roll as soon as they thais figure out who's head is in charge of what.

q

That's the difference between democratically elected and mob-elected.

It is not wildness, but deep in every Thais' heart, they know that current government is not legitimate, and it is worsen when they don't do anything concerning airport closure case.

I am founding the green shirt group now!

I think that some girls would like to form a pink shirt groups

No no, that are the ladymen who want to make you believe that they are girls

In that case, they have to prove their gender, aren't they?

How to do it without being vulgar?

Army Police & Civil Servents = Coulor Blue ????

Who the hel_l are the dudes in blue? They are intent on mixing it with the Reds so at a guess Pad paid heavies??

I saw the blue shirt people in Singapore newspaper.

They looked like ninja with head and face covered; Ninjas cover themselves so that they cannot be identified.

What is the purpose of the cover for the blue shirt? Anybody can guess it?

the BLUE shirts are being supported by the mayor of pattaya - some mafia influences here also -- mayor is son of kamnam pho - the big boss of chon buri - and who happens to be in hiding outside of the country due to pending court cases -- and of course the ex member from burirum - Newin -- they cover their faces as they are cowards - and worry about being indentified for shootings and what ever they are seen doing -- just a bunch of hired thugs - one paper refered to them as paid militia --- nuff said

Such a good guess, more than what I expected

The current government is illegitimate.

The PAD LOST the last election.

Do they think they can ride rough shod over democracy and expect the voices of the people to be silent?

There will be blood............................

I think this is a serious point - they should hold an election with ALL sides declaring they will abide by the result - the only answer in my view as current is not elected by the people and has credibility problems - this will not change until they goback to the people whether they like the result or not.

Yes, it is the solution indeed.

Let's stage a new election and respect the result.

If someone think that his opponent is using money politic, then why he doesn't do the same? Eventually, the poor people will earn the money.

Army Police & Civil Servents = Coulor Blue ????

Who the hel_l are the dudes in blue? They are intent on mixing it with the Reds so at a guess Pad paid heavies??

I saw the blue shirt people in Singapore newspaper.

They looked like ninja with head and face covered; Ninjas cover themselves so that they cannot be identified.

What is the purpose of the cover for the blue shirt? Anybody can guess it?

Army Police & Civil Servents = Coulor Blue ????

Army Police & Civil Servents = Coulor Blue ????

The answer is

No colour Thai army,Police,civil servants and also most of Thai ppl no colour dont want to lost more

I am founding the green shirt group now!

I think that some girls would like to form a pink shirt groups

I live in Pattaya at a place where I am in the midst of the red shirts; their leaders with the loudspeakers sound crazy and judging by the number of red shirts carrying poles and other weapons they are all set for a fight.

One of the all-too-few on-the-scene eyewitness accounts. Thanks for that. It's easier to get an assessment of a situation with eyewitness accounts.

For those demanding a new election, let me say, don't forget, this is Thailand - elections aren't what a westerner might expect an election to be. In Thailand, there is scant little campaigning, fewer debates, many topics are taboo, many votes are bought. Let's allow Abhisit a few years in office, while Thais try to learn what an election is. Then maybe they can do a better job at it.

Let's them have the new election and let them choose freely.

When the vote buyer distribute the money, and the people accept the money and give their vote in return, then it is their decision.

However, there will be time when the people are getting smarter, they'll receive the money and vote to what they think is a decent one.

Why you think that you are right with what you are thinking? Are the westerners always right?

For those justifying what the Reds are doing by saying the Yellows did the same or worse: That sort of justification is what we'd expect from 5 year old Tommy's mother, when Paul's mother says Tommy did something naughty. It's like; "so what if my little Tommy burned down the goat shed, your little Paul burned down the chicken coop last year. nah nah nah nah nah, pooh pooh on you.

But then Tommy finds out that Paul is having a party with the roasted chicken, then Tommy also wants to have the BBQ mutton

2 p.m. headline news on BBC showed hundreds of Red Shirts walking in to the hotel in Pattaya. The commentary repeated over and over how ineffective security was for the event. My take on it: the police are charged with protecting law and order. They should set up one or two cordons. If any group, regardless of shirt color, attempts to force their way through the cordon, the cops need to take necessary force to hold the line. Some police chief heads should roll, figuratively speaking. Bring in outside police forces, if local authorities can't do the job.

And this talk about "one Red Shirt death, and then Abhisit should resign." is a load of garbagio. People die every hour in Thailand, for all sorts of dumb reasons. Why should Abhisit be personally responsible for the death or one or more hot headed firebrands bent of causing trouble?

I smell Tiananmen style of thinking.

Do you think that Red Shirts deserve Tiananmen part 2?

I think all westerners condemn Tiananmen Square Massacre, are you an exception?

How much time did Thaksin have to do "good" and how much of that time did he use to exploit the country for his own good? It's a bit ridiculous to try and compare Thaksin with the PAD me thinks. And to to good is to give people a couple of thousand baht to buy their loyalty... well, I would call that pure exploitation of people who have no education and can't see further than their nose.

Millions - thats millions - of Thai people can now afford healthcare thanks to Thaksin Shinawatra. Before he was Prime Minister Thailand had no national healthcare program. If you couldn't afford healthcare - you died - simple as that. Now the hospitals are overflowing by people many of whom earn less than 300 baht a day but have enough to get treatment for medical conditions minor and serious.

Thaksins supporters are loyal to him and will remain loyal to him not because you naively think he's paying them - they're loyal to him because they look on him as a champion of the poor - a man who stands up for rights of the people of Thailand you condescendinlgy dismiss.

All Thai politicians are corrupt - do you think people of Thailand give a rats ass if Thaksin is?

They dont.

They do care that they can take their children and parents for life saving operations that were previously out of reach.

Pure nonsense. Before was a program and noone got rejected. But it didn't work perfect.

This health care was designed in the CHUAN Government but lack of money not yet implemented.

Lack of money because the former government (member Thaksin) lead Thailand to the 1997 crises.

Tell your wife she should not believe everything DTV tells her....

What's wrong with carrying a program from former government?

In fact, the program is up and running now.

I am wondering if you have sufficient knowledge on how government from developing countries work i.e. They may make good program but fail in the execution for certain reason (named corruption)

I would hate to be Abhisit now. The feeling in your stomach that you finally became PM and then you have to step down again after such a short time must really not be a nice one. If he had only played it smart and called for free elections right away, he would have been PM for a long time. People would have probably voted for him too. But by clinging on to power and not letting go, he gave the momentum back to Thaksin.

AGREE 100%

A new election is the best solution.

Current government took over the position undemocratically, how do they have the face to keep the power?

theres 60,000,000 people in Thailand, lets say 30,000,000 are voting age, that crowd at the most is 100,000, thats 0.3 of a percent of voters, Im not saying their views should be disregarded but to say they represent the majority is pure speculation, they may just have to wait for the next elections as happens in other democracies

Other democracies?

Thaksin's T.R.T. come to power - the P.A.D. call foul and have the party abolished and its members barred from office.

The P.P.P. come to power - the P.A.D. call foul, storm Suvarnabhumi Airport until the Contitutional Court (PAD) dissolves the PPP and bars its members from holding office.

"as happens in other democracies?".

Ignoring the constitutional will of the people is not democracy.

T.R.T. were foul

P.P.P were foul

so did the PAD not have the right do demonstrate and pressure the courts into making a decision, before the government was able to change the law/constitution preventing the court ruling (removing the dissolution penalty for vote buying)?

The reds want new elections, but I think everyone knows who would be elected - a Thaksin puppet government that later will be found guilty (again) of buying votes... at which point PAD will cal foul and go on the streets again.

Does anyone here have a solution to this never ending circle?!

Perhaps to follow demand from red shirt concerning military backup and the adviser?

If you guys read all news in the developing (and corrupted) countries, then you know that military usually plays important role in the dirty game.

You see, democracy in Thailand will be working like this in the future (unless things change):

1. Elections are held.

2. The new government needs to be approved by the elite (now using a front called the 'PAD')

3. If the 'PAD' don't like the government, it will be removed.

4. Elections are held again

5. (Repeat steps 2. and 3. until a government is elected that the 'PAD' approves)

And there you have a brand new, democratically elected government that the people have chosen (or that the people were forced to choose because all others were removed and banned from office).

AGREE!!!

If PAD said that Thai villagers are being bought to vote Thaksin, then they should educate the villagers to vote correctly, not by putting shame to their own country by besieging the airports.

I don't say that red shirts are good people, but at least they are honest with their support to Thaksin, instead of PAD who claims that they are good people.

My friend in Indonesia called me after he read news about Abhisit giving money to Thais and said "Abhisit is no different than Thaksin and Indonesia government"

baht 1 mil you have got to be kidding me. That would not even cover personal expenses involved in such a task. Then I turn up at BKK airport with thaskin in tow he is handed over to authorities who take all the glory. I receive my 1m baht then get arrested by the same thai authorities because I didn't have a work permit. Out of pocket for legal fees and not to mention medical costs after being thrown into a cell with a mob of red shirts. Sorry not a task for this farang....

I am almost choked to read the post.

Very funny indeed.

It shows the reality with mixture of sarcastic and fun.

i agree to yogi.

the one million baht is nothing compared to Taskin money. He can give the hunter 5 million to not get him.

my friend said she want to add 5,000 baht if it can end this situation.

I'm not supporting both red or yellow T-shirts.

but if he think he are not wrong, why doesn't he come back to face the court.

Do you think that the court will do it fairly?

Why didn't they arrest him when he returned to Thailand last time?