gerryBScot

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of what rights I would have if I and my two kids arrived in the UK and sought housing as homeless people? My dear wife does not have automatic entry as she is a foreign national. My two kids, however, are British citizens and passport holders, born in the UK though have lived in Thailand and China all their lives. Just planning ahead and thinking of worst case scenarios.  I should add that both kids are under ten years old and that I have not lived in the UK for about 10 years.

10 hours ago, mogandave said:

So what did you do about the “author”?

I couldn't do very much about it as I am only really a very occasional visitor to Thailand these days and rarely to meetings in Thailand. I am therefore not involved in a group conscience process. If I had been directly involved, I would like to think I would have had a gentle word with the 'author' and suggested:  a gift of an AA Big Book with contact details of willing helpers written into it; a reminder to said author to ensure only AA approved literature is shared at meetings; and a further reminder for potentially giving a newcomer reasons for staying away, as proved to be the case here . At the point at which said author told me to go forth and multiply, as I would expect, then I would raise the matter with the trusted servants and have it raised at a group conscience in the hope of seeking re-affirmation of official AA policy.

All of which brings me back to my beginnings in AA where I learned so many valuable skills for coping with the real world. My initial sponsor suggested, after I got into trouble through borrowing money from another AA,  that I should never lend anybody money; he advised that it was ok to give and that I could give on the express agreement that if the person I gave to got back on tracks that they would pass the gift on to another person experiencing hard times on the same basis.  He was a very wise guy - he added that way you'll only give a small amount and more importantly on the basis that it is a gift then it should not be the source of a resentment further down the road.

I love AA and what it stands for and I love the common sense and decency of many of the people who were lucky enough to get to its rooms and felt able to stay and get sober.

It's good that the focus of this post is moving to some consideration of what happens at meetings. I thought it was all about the newcomer.

I know a guy, a newcomer, who showed up at a meeting in BKK in his early days and had a book foisted on him, non-AA literature of course, and told he could give the author the money for it later. This is a newcomer and the author purports to be an experienced AA but is trying to flog the book, so is using the fellowship for their own ends and most importantly being allowed to do so by the trusted servants of that meeting. He didn't see the author for a few months but when they ran into each other the guy took an earful of abuse about his 'debt'. That's a great way to welcome a newcomer ….. not. How is this allowed to happen?

Same guy recently managed to string a year together, took the chip, then in the aftermath of the meeting was challenged about counting days and years and taking chips by some one else claiming to be experienced in recovery …..<deleted>! And here I try to follow this thread where some are proposing a kind of sobriety police the implications of which  would be inter alia a written membership application and a signed solemn declaration.

All this confirms to me my worst fears, those which I had  when I lived in Thailand. We of AA appear to be in deep trouble and have lost sight of our primary purpose. Live and let live

...alcoholic.

35 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Thanks for sharing Gerry.

 

Good to see you using the past tense(i would have noticed;)), I assume you mean you are recovered, like I.

 

Do you choose not to drink today?

Not sure it's about choice Patrick. I learned in AA that for me to drink again is to die. I accepted it way back then and I accept it today. I accept I can never drink again. I'm not fighting it, never have since I came in. I accept I am an

21 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Hi Gerry!

 

When did you stop pretending, by the way?

Thanks Patrick and hi. I never stopped pretending. In the early days in AA I had my doubts. Like prior to the 30 years I drank before I went to my first meeting I knew my relationship with alcohol wasn't normal. I knew this from the start at age 14.  Like many people who were burdened ( do you notice I am using a past tense?!!!) with alcoholism I thought I maybe wasn't an alcoholic. I learned this doubt had been relatively common among the many people I met in the rooms and usually was the source of much mirth. But I shared about it at a meeting once and instead of being closed down, someone offered the pretend scenario. It was just  a feeling and I didn't drink on it then or any other time. I am glad I shared and I am hugely grateful for the pretend scenario. These days it's kind of academic. I don't ever think I'm not an alcoholic but booze is just so far away from me these days. Well not true the minibar is full of it but it's useless to me. I know everything about my life is infinitesmally better, which I attribute to an active AA  programme and involvement over jy first ten years. I wouldn't drink if you or any other authority on alcohol said I could and indeed should! But I would be very reluctant to challenge your right or anyone else's right to be at an AA meeting.

I am an alcoholic and my name is Gerry. 

22 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Maybe, 'go out until you're under no illusion that your an alcoholic'. Personally, there are low bottom drunks everywhere that can be helped rather than wasting time on 'I drank 3 beers a night and feel sad in the morning' kinda drinkers.

How grateful I remain to that stranger for his advice. Better in here pretending you are than in a bar thinking you are not. 

An enormous relief that some common sense has erupted in this thread and that real AAs are prevailing. I always thought one of our unifying characteristics was that critical element in our journeys to rock bottom : most of us thought we weren't alcoholics! The deception we wove in our own sick little minds! When I was in doubt, and expressed that doubt at a meeting, a total stranger , a person I had never met before or since, offered the view that I was better off in AA pretending I was an alcoholic than in a bar thinking I wasn't. That stranger, through those wise words, might  have saved my life. What might some so-called 'real alcoholic' of the type that posts here have advised?!!!!

Touched down in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, just after midnight, (0010h) with the wife and kids and strolled through immigration and customs without any queuing. Wife, a Filipino, went through the ASEAN lane and given 21 day visa exempt entry; me and kids, Brits, granted 14 day visa exempt entry. Perfect for our seven day stay. We were asked one question: how long are you staying in Vietnam? So in we walked and our driver was waiting for us with a name board outside - all very simple and smooth. Outside airport was remarkably calm, only half-hearted attempts at touting. Driven straight to our hotel with a minimum of fuss. No queuing on check in and genuinely helpful staff. From touch down to check in took one hour all in. All of this is a far cry from arrivals at Suvarnabhumi and recent experiences of staying in hotels in Thailand. While sheer volume of numbers means Suvarnabhumi immigration was, is and will always be busy, I couldn't help feel there was something reminiscent in this first experience of Vietnam of how Thailand used to be. 

I said the original post was a troll at the very beginning and there is little that has been written since to make me feel differently. I enjoyed Geo's post about being grateful for being able to get sober without AA and I enjoyed the footage of Bill W though the sound on my notebook is crap. I feel sorry for Neeranam who has been backed into a corner and left to defend the indefensible - that's what happens with trolls.

I think the business of getting sober is tough anywhere in the world but I think it is particularly so in a place like Thailand. Now even more difficult as you might be unlucky to be told you're not alcoholic and in fact that you're a cheapskate trying to avoid paying for counselling! The love I walked into in the rooms in London at my beginning is simply not there in Thailand and it's pretty obvious to me why that is so. I was recently back in London and I'm glad to say they're still loving people there. I heard a brilliant share from a publican who is 12 years sober and handles drink every day as it is his livelihood. I was there when he came back twelve years ago and what a joy he's still going strong. 

I thought Clancy I was joking when he talked about the sobriety police .....

Patrick, you are almost behaving like a troll because an AA of your standing should know the answer. If you are really struggling with this issue, which I actually doubt,  surely your AA intergroup is the place to take this matter, not a forum such as this. 

'The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.' It is unequivocal. It is the bedrock upon which AA has been built. The door must always be open and we can never choose who we let in; they don't even need to say they are alcoholics. All they need is a desire to stop drinking.

If these people continue to drink and see no reason to do the steps then they are not going to be very different from many AAs at the beginning of their time in AA.

I would strongly urge you and any other AA to focus exclusively on your own problem with alcohol and not concern yourself with that of any other, and in particular to avoid any consideration of whether  a person is or is not an alcoholic. It might be these people you are concerned about are actually getting a considerable benefit from being at your meeting. And you might inadvertently harm them if you tell them you don't think they are alcoholics - if you were to have told me that in all earnestness in my early days I may have gone out drinking to my considerable detriment.

Phetchburi is a delightful, civilised provincial city with much to commend it including its proximity to the coast.

Does anyone know if this covers the Passport Office?

As of this month Thai passport holders can enter Hainan Province in southern China for up to 30 days without a visa. There is a requirement to book the trip through an official travel agency and I do not know the precise ins and outs of doing this, but if you do it you'll get in. 

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/18/c_137120441.htm

The unfolding story about the shocking treatment of UK Commonwealth citizens, the so called 'Windrush' scandal, and the references to the 'hostile environment' that has been the policy of the UK passport office and the immigration service in recent years, makes for depressing reading.

In China we are in the business of applying for my Filipino wife to get the bog standard UK visitor visa. This online application process seems to be equally hostile and I am sure it is equally so for those applying from Thailand too. Apologies if this topic has already been flogged to death here. At just under £100 for the bog standard no-bells-and whistles visa it is frightening that it is only after the form has been completed and paid for that there is a categorical message to the effect that information cannot be changed, meaning mistakes cannot be rectified; the first and final message advises that the solution to such a situation is to submit a new application. Plus the volume of information that is required - my wife's complete travel history for the last ten years. That amounts to 20 different entries in my wife's case including two one day entries into Hong Kong which does not stamp entry/departure dates into passports anymore. It doesn't seem to be anything other than making applicants jump through hoops in the hope that they will make errors; I find it surprising that details of specific entry and  departure dates are not asked for but just the month of entry and a length of stay in either days, weeks, months or years - you can only select one measure and cannot, for instance , express the length of the visit in days and weeks. So looks like it is a process designed to frustrate applicants and which by its nature facilitates mistakes.

One plus is you can pay with Alipay - except I couldn't because I do not have a Chinese mainland resident ID card!

Them there Tories are nasty people - glad I live far away from that 'hostile environment' these days. 

9 hours ago, Justfine said:

Common sense. Rare on here. Good to see a normal person make a post.

Thanks but sorry to disappoint you: I am an alcoholic but I am a sober one these days!

One thing you are not talking about as you spar about exotic aspects of diet is the importance of exercise in pursuit of health and well being, and lowering BP. Getting regular, age-appropriate exercise  combined with a healthy diet are the keys to health and well being. Exercise in particular might well counter the potential adverse effects of some foods and might allow a little room for some occasional indulgence! 

On the food front I think a reduction in carbohydrate intake is one of the best ways of reducing weight - switch from rice/potatoes/bread to a fresh salad.

Over the last few days I have been unsuccessfully trying to organise the shipping of personal effects from Thailand to The Philippines. My consignment needs no more than 3 cubic metres. I also wanted to deliver my consignment for consolidation in person by flinging my various boxes and golf club sets into the back of my truck and driving to the port in Bangkok.

It's a great mystery to me why I have been unable to deal with anyone in any company who can say to me something like: for consignments from A ( small city west central Thailand) to B  ( small city central Philippines) that require from 1 to 10 cubic metres of space, there is a charge of XXXX baht per cubic metre; additional costs such as repacking, consolidation, customs clearance and collection will cost approximately xxxx, xxxx, xxxx and xxxx respectively; there will be additional costs at your destination end and we recommend you to use this particular agent to process clearance at your destination and you will have to meet his/her costs.

Two  companies insist that they need to pack my personal effects to ensure customs clearance in Thailand; so additional costs there in sending packers/drivers to A and then to drive the load to the departure port. I would be happy to leave the boxes open so that they can be checked. I'd be happy to drive the unopened boxes to their offices in BKK for checking. But no, if you don't do it our way, you don't do it and in any event we can't give you a price. So what these companies are in effect saying is we will take your consignment and then use them  as security to extract as much money from you as possible ... because if you don't pay we have your property as collateral.

Another company quoted $2,000.00 US for collection from A and delivery to Manila. I asked for some break down of how they reached such a figure, like a quotation, they came back with a  reduced price of 55,000 THB with delivery to A. Again no breakdown simply a figure and when I suggested a figure of 50,000 THB might be acceptable they replied that they were already taking a huge risk. Duh!

Then a consolidator in Thailand offered 4,750 THB for a super box measuring 75 x 55 x 55 cm; he said he could fit five super boxes onto a pallet.  I don't understand how you can make 5 boxes fit on a 1 cubic metre pallet : maybe four, possibly six, but but five doesn't make sense.

I compare this experience with shipping personal effects inside China last year. I understand it is not exactly comparable as there is the matter of border crossing and duty. However I used Google translate to send a message to China's leading freight company. Within two hours a guy came to my house on a motorbike expecting to collect a letter and when he saw I had five boxes he said he would need to come back the following evening. This guy arrived on time with a mate as agreed, gave me his WeChat contact details and they took my boxes off, down three floors of stairs. I remember saying to my wife that we might never see our stuff again. An hour letter he sent me price details: 5 boxes weighing 156 kg in total for shipment from C to D by road express would cost the equivalent of about 17,500 THB. I transferred the money to his WeChat account and he sent back the bill of lading and reference numbers. I got a phone call 36 hours  later from my people in D to say my boxes had arrived. Knock me down with a feather! I was floored.

Meanwhile back in Thailand. A friend has kindly agreed to store my personal effects as we return to China tomorrow. I am not going to be rushed and make a decision that might prove to be very expensive.

Fair comment but this was done by the booking desk and 150 baht off airport was ok. Previously I have been quoted ridiculous prices so I was happy to splurge!

I seem to recall seeing an SF-Express counter on the departure floor when I flew out of Swampy back in January. Has anyone had any experience using this service? I've used SF-Express in China to ship goods and their service their is awesome. However I have been dealing with their office in BKK and let's just say it is hard to believe I am dealing with the same company. Anyone care to share their experience of using the airport service if it actually exists? Thanks

Thought I'd reply to my post as I resolved the problem and sold our truck yesterday. Mrs GerryB went into the local Immigration, in this instance in Ratchaburi, and explained our dilemma. She was given a form for the landlord/housemaster to complete, basically a confirmation of residence. Our house master duly completed this, provided a copy of her Thai ID card and we went back to Immigration who issued a letter to certify my wife was lawfully in Thailand and presumably could sell our car; attached a photo to the letter which was then signed, sealed and delivered. Free. The Immigration Officer even came running after us as we went down the stairs saying we needed to come back for the letter of certification. Unbelievably good service from Immigration. The deal was a cinch.

On arrival recently I was very impressed by the way the taxi lines are organised at Swampy into three sections: Short Rides, Regular Taxis,  & Large Taxis. Unfortunately there was a massive queue for Regular but we were staying locally in Lat Krabang so went for the short ride option and got taken to our hotel immediately for 150 THB: no hassle from the driver who might have spent three hours in a queue waiting for a poxy fare and an 'acceptable' level of overcharging; I say this because it would have been less than 100 on the metre but .... what the hell? So well done to some one for sorting this out!

I'd be grateful for some advice on a  little bureaucratic issue. Our dear old truck which did us wonderful service for 10 years is up for sale and we have a buyer. The issue is my wife is the car's legal owner and she is currently here on a 30 day waiver. Of course when we first bought the beast she was here on a Non-B as she worked as a teacher and was here in that status for 11 years; we can prove all this but that was before, and not now. We have left Thailand and now live and work in China, though currently here on a short break. I've been told she should go to Immigration and get a letter from them. She can do that but can someone please advise what that letter should actually say? As I say I'd be grateful for a steer on this. Many thanks

The world of alcohol dosing really exposes as a  nonsense any attempt to describe norms. At best so called safe limits are a bench mark or yard stick but there are huge variables and variations. A friend tells me he gambles on a pokey every day for an hour and limits himself to a certain, affordable amount. He's self-evidently deluding himself in the same way that I'd be deluding myself if I thought I was drinking 14 or 21 units of alcohol a week and thus was drinking within safe limits, whatever that latter term may actually mean. I am so glad to be out of the debate other than in this context....