steady

""A senator should do his job during a parliamentary session." - surely they mean a crime suspect should be allowed to do his job? doesn't quite have the same feel though does it?

It would seem the higher echalons of Thai society believe they have a licence to kill?

Only because they have! Choose your weapon, fast sports car, Honda Civic, uzi.....up to you.

I go with the smart money and would say take control of the situation yourself. These forums are littered with stories of people who were unsuccessful in their applications because a thrid party screwed up for whatever reason. If you are in the UK do the work yourself and pay money to get a completed application pack couriered to your wife who then only has to turn up at VFS. That way you stand or fall by your own efforts....and by the way you are describing things I think that you can easily understand the requirements so there is no reason for the application being unsuccessful. That's not the case right now!

I've now jumped through all of the settlement visa application hoops and it's time to look forward. My wife has a 'visa settlement spouse/CP (KOL/REQ)' visa which was applied for before the changes in July this year, at the same time our niece (12 years old) who lives with us got a settlement visa with an 'accompanying my wife' endorsement.

My queries are:

1. Am I correct in assuming that once my wife gains an additional level on an ESOL course we just send of the paperwork with the SET (M) form and get ILR?

2. Payment? Is the fee the standard for an ILR application or is it free because the visa is saying settlement subject to meeting the KOL requirements?

3. What happens about my niece's visa?

Presently I'm struggling with the UKBA website which seems sparse on information which is in any way not the usual.

Thanks in advance.

Steady

Still nothing:( VFS don't work Saturdays do they?

I blame Visa plus if you hadn't have told me you had a visa returned from the 23rd I wouldn't be so bad.

We didn't get a decision until some people who applied 8 weeks after us....but we were still successful. Patience is a virtue but it's still fresh enough in my mind to realise just how frustrating times like this really are. Good luck!

Applied for 2 settlement visas on May the 22nd. Picked the package up from the local post office Aug 25th (as soon as the doors opened!) and found two settlement visas stuck sweetly in the passports. Many thanks for all the support and advice.

But there's always another question hiding around the corner........My wife got a spouse/cp (KOL Req) visa but my niece got "visa to acc relative". Where does this leave her with respect to getting citizenship etc? She's 12 years old so doesn't have to pass the KOL. I'm talking about the niece - not the wife before anyone chooses to misunderstand.

I've been critical of the UKBA staff recently and have to say that they did phone the natural mother and I was worried about the 'broken ties' aspect because our niece's mother is still considered to be the daughter in law, sister in law and aunt to my wife's family. I also know, because of these links that she said during the interview that she would love to keep in contact with her daughter and hoped to get phonecalls. She also said that she accepted that the mother-daughter link was broken too, we and other family members in earlier years have been looking after her daughter for too many years for a normal link to be present.

Today we received the 2 visas and we're very happy but I think praise should be given to a common sense approach by the ECO. He or she could have just took what was said on face value and rejected the visa but they understood that the ties were broken, either because of distance or time apart and the fact that the rest of my wife's family see my niece's mother as family has no bearing on the " lost or broken his ties with his family of origin" aspects. Maybe they just understood that in our case the family of origin is still the present family and took a pragmatic approach. Either way I think that they made the right call and should be praised.

And on a positive note I would like to thank Visas Plus again for the critical and comprehensive advice way back at the beginning of the process, it was that which got me focussed and motivated. Thanks again. All other posters who gave support and general advice also kept us going. It's difficult to wait for a decision when people who applied 7 weeks later are already back in the UK with their families. But anyway a happy ending and the hard work starts now.

Steady

We actually did 2 documents where the mother transferred full responsibility for her daughter to us. The first one was in our local amphur office in Sattahip but when asked why it was happening at that time (almost 2 years ago) our niece's mother said so that her daughter could go on holiday to the UK with us as well as her inability to care for her. The amphur employee said that because it was not the mother's local amphur, that's in Phetchabun, she would only write that we had full responsibility for our niece and the reason for the document was so that we could holiday in the UK - not for travel anywhere. This document was good enough to get our niece her first visitor's visa.

A few months later we got her mother to go to Phetchabun amphur office to get the wording strengthened saying that we can go anywhere as a family with the wife and me as the responsible adults. We used that in addition to the first document for our niece's second visitor visa.

Hopefully it will be good enough for a settlement visa too.

I can't believe that I'm the first person trying to take someone to the UK by the 'de facto adoption' route. So I assume that the UKBA know what they are doing. Perhaps I'm being over optimistic. We are now into the fourth month of waiting and the only information that we have received from the UKBA is that they are awaiting guidance. Sadly this one line answer was in reply to a page long email which queried a number of issues and identified rules within the legislation which I believe we have satisfied. It is communication but perhaps I should have asked for meaningful communication. Additionally at the same time my wife was being given conflicting information verbally by a Thai UKBA employee. I have chosen to believe the written word!

I'm quite happy that the UKBA feel the need to make checks with the aim of protecting the child. However if anyone reads the UKBA documentation it can easily be seen that the ECO is doing what is required to protect their job and it's just a bonus that the child is protected too. This can easily be highlighted by the fact that our niece has spent 3 months previously in the UK in 2 visits with the same people who are trying to take her this time. We got the visitor visas in under a week each time.

Anyway I'm getting off my soap box now and getting back into 'being stuck in limbo' mode. Just another day waiting......

7by7,

I missed a point in your email. I talked about guidance and you are talking about checks. I understand what you are talking about but why wouldn't these checks be carried out on all of the step fathers of children being brought to the UK. If they are being done it doesn't delay their applications. My issue is that they have told me that they need guidance without saying why, or where the guidance is coming from, internal or external? And most importantly how long will it take to arrive?

I have visions of them waiting for guidance from the sun god or trying to get the ECM to read the entrails of a newt!!

What visa did your wife apply for, and what has she been issued? Why do you think it's the wrong one? Have you contacted the embassy to have it changed?

Inconvenient for you as the delay in your niece's application may be, I am sure you will agree that there are some vile people out there whose intentions toward children are not as genuine and honourable as yours.

Surely a delay in the application in a genuine case is better than an innocent child falling into the clutches of such people?

She got a standard 27 month settlement visa when she should have got the ILE subject to KOL and it was the embasy that phoned us before the passport arrived to say it was the wrong one. That is a good point but the difficulty in getting any information from the UKBA is very frustrating and just getting told that they are taking guidance after 3 months isn't the most helpful. I've already complained to them about things that have happened in our case, but no reply yet. I'll save that for another thread.

Your other points are valid, however I have previously taken my niece back to the UK twice on visitor's visas. Does that mean that if I am a tourist I can get through 'the net'. The UKBA's rules also let me traffic and mistreat my own children with impunity, and there are many cases of parents mistreating children around the world.

I feel very unhappy about the way things are working out but feel that there is no point of contact that can get things sorted. All I want to know is what guidance is required. I only found out why things were delayed after sending them an email querying the delay on the decision after my wife's (wrong) visa was delivered. In the email I pointed out which parts of the UKBA legislation I had addressed in the application and why I thought that it was straightforward. I have read all of their guidance notes and I have a suspicion that they are applying them. However I believe that if we are told that we must meet the rules the guidance notes should complement them, not be a mismatch for them.

Applied for 2 visas on 22nd May, they have managed to issue the wrong one to my wife just last week - one week short of 3 months and say that they cannot make a decision on my niece's application until they take further guidance, and they don't know when that will arrive!!! Less than impressed.

As well as the paperwork I was made to bring another Thai, in addition to the wife, to say that they knew me and that I lived where we said that I lived. Easy enough, just grabbed the wife's cousin! That was in Sattahip.

With the present waiting times it's highly unlikely that anyone will have a certificate that's still valid!!!

An open question to anyone but I expect that the more knowledgeable and experienced posters can give the answer. My application for 2 settlement visas went in on the 22nd of May, I did expect a delay because one is for the wife (straight forward I hope) but the other one is for my neice who has been adopted by us in a de facto manner and so I expected a lot more scrutiny. She has lived with us full time for two and a half years and had 2 visitors visas to the UK in that time. However last week the embassy conducted telephone interviews with my wife and my neice's natural mother and concluded by saying that more checks need to take place. What checks are we talking about?

Steady

There ECO will probably looking to see if there has been a genuine transfer of parental responsibility from the natural parent(s) to the adoptive parents. It is not good enough just to say that there has been a de facto adoption. That could mean as little as your wife's niece staying with you because her mother is working away from home. That would not be an adoption. The ECO will be trying to see what contact there is between your niece and her parent(s), how far apart they live, who makes decisions in the child's life, etc. There is a big difference between adopting a child de facto and merely taking care of her for someone else.

I agree with all of that. My concern is that I don't know of anyone else, establishment or individual, who can have a valid input. If they said they wanted to interview our neice or other children or any family member that's understandable, but no one else that I can think of could make a relevant input. I know that I did a lot of research before the application went in and you gave me lots of good advice - all of which I took to the best of my ability! Thanks again for your input. I did feel that I had put in a good application addressing all of the points that you have highlighted but the concept of 'sole responsibility' isn't the easiest to prove in an application. As I said in another reply I suppose we just wait and see.

An open question to anyone but I expect that the more knowledgeable and experienced posters can give the answer. My application for 2 settlement visas went in on the 22nd of May, I did expect a delay because one is for the wife (straight forward I hope) but the other one is for my neice who has been adopted by us in a de facto manner and so I expected a lot more scrutiny. She has lived with us full time for two and a half years and had 2 visitors visas to the UK in that time. However last week the embassy conducted telephone interviews with my wife and my neice's natural mother and concluded by saying that more checks need to take place. What checks are we talking about?

Steady

I can't answer your question directly.

However, you may find the Entry Clearance Guidance for ECOs helpful.

SET7.23 Consideration of de facto adoption

Did the reading of that guidance along with everything else I could find before the application. It looks like I'll not find out what the checks are. My concern is that I don't know of anyone or any establishment which can provide any more relevant facts than have already been provided. We will do what we have done all along - just wait and see!

An open question to anyone but I expect that the more knowledgeable and experienced posters can give the answer. My application for 2 settlement visas went in on the 22nd of May, I did expect a delay because one is for the wife (straight forward I hope) but the other one is for my neice who has been adopted by us in a de facto manner and so I expected a lot more scrutiny. She has lived with us full time for two and a half years and had 2 visitors visas to the UK in that time. However last week the embassy conducted telephone interviews with my wife and my neice's natural mother and concluded by saying that more checks need to take place. What checks are we talking about?

Steady

Folks can I come at this from my own selfish perspective. I can see both sides of the argument, I submitted two settlement visa applications on the 22nd of May.....and obviously we're still waiting. The trouble is that every time I see a new message on the forum I think, 'Yippee the backlog of applications is being dealt with and someone else has heard from the Embassy'. And then I read 2 different views, both of which I can understand and sympathise with. So slow down with the messages, my heart might not be able to cope with all of these false starts.

Cheers

Steady

Sometimes they may check certain facts with the applicant in the first few days or in the last few days before a decision is made. The ECA does the ground work by checking the application and then it is forwarded to the ECO for processing, you should still be prepared for a 4 to 10 week wait. The Embassy does not work on the weekends.

So are you saying that you know that every application is looked at in the first few days that it is in the embassy, obviously that means Monday to Friday. We are dealing with civil sevants after all. I'm trying to understand how the processes which will affect my family so dramatically actually work.

Steady

ps I don't want this post to appear pointed but I found it hard to post the words in another way.

Does anyone know how long after submission of the documents people in the embassy start working on the applications. I just assumed that as we applied in May then we just sort of sat in a bundle until our turn came. It seems that this is not the case if applications made last week are being worked on. Perhaps they do preliminary work and if no phone call comes it means that you either have all the documentation to pass......or else they have a laugh because they know you've failed because your application lacks something but you won't know for another 2 months!!!

You must be getting twitchy by now. Our applications went in on the 22nd of May and we're getting twitchy. I know I did a lot of work before applying but it was so long ago I can only remember the bits I now consider not so good! Selective memory at its worst.

Hi Everyone here,

I submitted UK settlement visa on 8th of May and still in waiting. (And I know one of applicant who submitted on 3rd of May also stills in their waiting.)

I hope the waiting is over soon. I think it is going to be about 9-12 weeks.

Did you or the person you know have anything that was different or not 'run of the mill' in your applications? Was there anything that would cause a delay in the decision being made? Having submitted our applications on 22 May it indicates that if your application was standard then we have about another 3 weeks or so to wait. That would be about 9 weeks, as you suggest.

Are you still submitting the application on the 3rd July ? If so, and you are submitting just the one bank statement, then I think, as do others, that the application will be refused. That said, if you don't apply until after the new rules comes into force on the 9th July, it doesn't sound like you will meet the new financial requirements ( for self-employed) sponsors.

What kind of financial support did you show when your wife got her two visit visas ? Don't forget that the ECO will have access to that information when he looks at the new application, so whatever you submit should confirm the previous information submitted.

In answer to your new question in your new thread, your wife can apply the next day for a visit visa if her settlement application is refused. But, it would have to be a very good application to convince the ECO that only a visit is intended if she has recently been refused a settlement visa.

Are you saying that as part of the visa application process the ECO actually digs out previous visa application paperwork? There must be a very large warehouse somewhere holding all of the earlier applications. I'm assuming that the more successful applications someone has in the system then this tends to give the ECO more confidence in the application in front of them. Or am I just being hopeful?

Steady

Submitted 18/5 no news reported,Still waiting.

I'm keeping an eye on you hardgrafter, we applied 22/5...and what a surprise - no news either.

Common sense should prevail. If they insist on seeing it, then they will contact you. If common sense doesn't prevail, and the application is refused for that reason alone, then the refusal decision will be overturned at appeal if you produce the original. The original of a copy submitted at application cannot be considered "new evidence". In addition, if you are applying for a settlement visa for your wife, then it doesn't really matter if she owns land in Thailand or not. You are the one who has to show maintenance and accommodation in the UK.

Thanks for the quick and knowledgeable reply. It settles my mind whilst we are in the 'dead zone' just waiting for an outcome (maybe I should avoid these forums for a couple of weeks).

On a more general note I would like to say a big thank you because every time I have posted a query VisasPlus have always given me the information or clarity about how to progress my situation. Keep up the good work!

Steady

Hello everyone, a quick question for the smarter and more experienced posters than myself. I have applied for a settlement visa and am still waiting for the outcome. However although the UKBA state that all documents must be originals we could not submit the chanuts (title deeds) because we are trying to sell our property and need them as part of the buying / selling process. I put this information in a letter saying that we took the originals to VFS for them to see and then pass forward the copies to the Embassy. I also noted that this is how the British Honorary Consul in Jomtien works for notarial services. If you show them the original but leave them a copy they will still do the job. They just stamp it something like 'original seen'.

So the simple question is, "Have I shot myself in the foot, or will things be ok?". Obviously our property constitutes a considerable part of our financial argument.

Steady