Kitsch22

I use the NetSIM 30 hours for 99baht and the do carry the hours over. For example I my package renews on the 9th of the month. I usually burn through that in a couple of weeks. Then purchase an additional 30 hours for 99baht. On the 9th next month the leftover hours are added to the new 30.

I do not know about a surplus from a "mid-month top-up" but I was expressly told when I registered my first NetSim that any unused balance of the basic 30 hours would not carry forward upon the monthly renewal. This was an employee on their 1175 help/info line. I have never had any such surplus to put it to the test, though.

BOT website - I've only read it in Thai - but it makes it quite clear thast there is NO limit on the amount of THai Baht cash that maybe brought into the country without decelaration.

The issue you willhave to deal with is the customs excise of the coutnry you are taking it out of e.g. UK Customs & Excise will want to see paperwork associated with the export of any large sum, and the Uncle Sam has a similar rule in respect of large sums of U$D.

If you can't support it with legit paperwork, good chance it will be confiscated - well, UK C&E will for sure take it away from you. I dont know what the USA limit is, for the UK I think red flag go up with anything above about Sterling 10K.

I do about 4 trips a year to the UK with a 6 figure sum of cash (to pay for agricultural equipment) and everytime I declare it (both on departure from Thailand, and arrival UK side) I get asked a 1001 questions and get quizzed on the supporting paperwork(especialy because its coming from Thailand - with all the connetations associated with cash from South East Asia).

But so long as you have paperwork showing the origin (ie. withdrawal from own bank account, or similar) and a plausible explination (i.e. property, apartment, house, car purchase ... or whatever), you should be fine. Just keep in mind - UK C&E have enourmous powers when it comes to confiscation and prying into your computer and paperwork in your baggage - without having to get a search warrant.

In fact the threshold is £1,000 cash. More than that and HMRC can seize it at their whim and insist that you convince them that you came by the money lawfully (which includes proving that you have declared/paid for income tax purposes. If you fail to meet their criteria they may apply for a confiscation order under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. Beware - they do not need to show grounds for suspicion. I recommend taking any large sums by travellers cheque including a copy of the purchase receipt against a bank account in your own name. Direct transfer is the other alternative, but requires a receiving account. This is an area in which cash is no longer King.

you get what you pay for and unfortunately 10000thb pays for a pro forma contract (and not a very good one either)

depending on the lawyer thats the charge out rate for about one hour (i doubt a lawyer even looked at the file)

I do agree to that. Expect to pay in the order of 4,000 to 6,000 baht per hour for a top Thai lawyer.

Sorry but i think you are missing the point, what i think, whatever is the price, 1 satang or 100 millions, if they offer such a service for that price they should just mantein what they say, what cost they will run to or others are offering is none of my business, you say you can do it for that price, then be it, otherways just give back what you do not deserve as in the best of the options you are just misleading a customer, do you think i am wrong to put it on this way?

You are right but a bit too soft on the lawyer.

It is to be expected that any professional lawyer will accept responsibility for any advice that he gives or document that he produces unless he makes it clear from the very first that the contrary will be the case. To seek to apply an exclusion clause (and a poorly worded one at that) ex post facto is utterly unprofessional. In UK (I do not know about Thailand) the retrospective attempt would fail anyway. This firm should be avoided like the plague (or the 'flu, as the case may be). Is there no professional disciplinary body in Thailand to take action over this kind of disgraceful behaviour?

I am not suggesting that a ceiling on the level of liability would be improper, but a 100% exclusion certainly is.

It won't generate more revenue for the fee-charging banks if their expat customers, including myself, cease being their customers and move our business to non-fee banks, or use non-ATM alternatives such as in-branch transactions that actually will end up costing those banks more.

But more broadly, these kinds of moves do indeed contribute to an anti-tourist, anti-foreigner impression in the country that is just about the last thing it needs right now. The Thai Bankers Assn. couldn't have been worse in their timing.

"By adopting the 150 baht fee, the Thai Bankers Assn. was obviously trying to generate more revenue for the banks...The whole thing makes no practical sense."

Of course it does, and you mentioned it in your very first sentence: the fee is to generate more revenue for the banks. With an average of 20,000 affected transactions per day, it's an extra 3 million THB/day

While the sentiments expressed above seem superficially sensible, I am not sure that they will work that way in practice.

I already have an ATM cash card for use in connection with one of my Kasikorn Bank accounts. I also have a Nationwide Flex Account cash card which I have been in the habit of using at any local machine accepting Cirrus cards. Very frequently that has been a machine belonging to or operated by Bangkok Bank. The result of the new charge has been that I have opened a new (additional) account at Bangkok Bank so as to gain one of their ATM cash cards (which I have not previously held) and have dumped a few tens of thousands of Baht in that new account by way of a working float.

So, although my regard for Kasikorn Bank has been improved as a result of the fact that they have chosen not (yet) to implement the charge, it is Bangkok Bank which has gained extra business from me.

However, this really is a risible storm in a teacup. Why is it assumed that any bank has any obligation to provide any free or subsidised service to any person who is not their banking customer? In UK I usually get free use of ATM machines if they are operated by a bank which issues or is associated with the relevant card. But there are plenty of machines (especially in "convenience" locations) where a £1.50 charge is standard. I believe that the average tourist in Thailand will not find the charge remarkable or objectionable. An expat living locally who keeps his money in a local bank will similarly have no cause for complaint. Of course, the expats who choose to take advantage of cheap local living while keeping their money banked outside Thailand will suffer to some minor extent, but that is a matter of choice for them.

For anybody to suggest that these new charges are a sign that Thailand in general is engaged in some kind of anti-tourist or anti-farang conspiracy is ludicrous and paranoid.

I pay 100B for maybe 20hrs a month of EDGE service on one of the older iphones

this is with 12Call pre-paid

its good for checking email and spot browsing, but wont stream video (but then again my home connection wont stream video...)

The "trouble" with 12Call is that they have so many different packages. We are really spoiled for choice.

If you buy a 12Call "Netsim" for 210 baht, that includes 30 hours GPRS/EDGE connection usable within 30 days. Thereafter it will renew automatically charging 99 baht for a further 30 hours. No carry forward of unused hours. 100 baht buys a further 30 days validity for the Sim, so if you just keep topping up 100 baht every 30 days that gives you an average daily availability of one hour GPRS/EDGE. If you travel with a laptop this beats typical Internet Cafe deals both on price and ease of access.

I love the bum gun i intalled one in my home in the UK no one would use it except me and my mates who had also been to Thailand.

I believe its illegal in the UK if its connected directly to the mains

The plumber who fitted my units in UK insisted that each one had its individual nonreturn valve and additionally an individual manually operated stopcock closest to the supply. He seemed highly knowledgeable and also very keen to conform to statutory requirements and so I expect he got it right, although I would not know where to look to find the definitive regulations. I think that the rationale probably is that the manually operated stopcock counts as a cold water tap with everything that follows is merely an extension.

I recently bought a Thai/English Picture Dictionary for my Daughter..

It scared the sh*t out of me as it told us that a Bat is a Bird & a Whale is a Fish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I threw the Book away but i dread to think what they are taught to be honest, if this kind of thing is allowed to be in Books, especially one's that I understand..

Was the subject of your disgust the book or the Thai language?

If you bought an English/Thai picture dictionary, would you throw it away if it showed a picture of a sealion that did not look like a lion?

How sure are you that you really did understand the book before you tossed it?

What it looked like is not relevant to the post you are commenting on.

A bat is not a bird, it's a mammal.

A whale is not a fish, it is also a mammal.

So what? The book was a dictionary, not a textbook on taxonomy.

The (linguistically) correct translation of "whale" is 'plaa waal'. You may not like it, but it is so.

Similarly, 'khaang khaow luuk nok' is the correct Thai name for a common species of bat.

So what it looked like (in a children's picture dictionary) was perhaps relevant, after all.

You havent heard stories about farangs getting partners in for 50% then selling the same shares.Renting/leasing premises then when you are profitable the farang owner increase the rent considerably.

Farangs having more than a few girls on the go and telling lies on how rich they are and all the bs they come out with.Lived here 6 years and can write a book on how bad farangs are.

I'm not sure that starting a thread on how to cheat on your partners, Thai or foreigners, or how to take advantage of your gf would be within forum rules. That may answer your question.

Beside that, I definitively agree that a number of farangs in LoS are no angels but it seems people here have a weird sense of solidarity, or maybe it's just fear. And I'm not only talking of posters in TV but foreigners generally in Thailand

You are obviously right but nevertheless my reading of some of the threads here on TV leaves me wondering if I may be in some weird quixotic minority.

Within the last 36 hours I have been following threads in which in one case posters have been advising each other to cheat their Thai landlords by breaking the terms of their leases and in another have been boasting of the way in which they or their partners steal goods from hotels and similar establishments. It is quite clear from the context that these people feel entirely justified and comfortable in what they say and do. Personally I find it particularly disturbing that many if not most of these delinquents appear to be to British, like myself. I accept entirely that the theft of a few towels is not the end of the world, but I do find it shocking that people so cheerfully reveal their dishonesty in a public forum like this. Are they the ones with the problem, or is it me?

The title of the thread receives reveals a real substantive issue. It is a pity that the OP devalued his opening by the inclusion of the ridiculously extreme items numbered 4 and 5 on his list.

It seems highly likely that the perpetrator killed the lad in an act of reckless idiocy and that we can be confident that he will be going to prison for a long time. But nobody seems to be suggesting that this was a deliberate murder. Having no knowledge of this community I find it extremely hard to understand exactly what it is that the people are protesting about. Do they protest similarly when there is an assassination carried out by a paid hitman? Is it all just an open expression of community grief sparked by the victim's tender years or do they actually expect to achieve some positive outcome?

In a way you are correct - its more an issue of recognition by Thai courts of assets held/entrusted through off-shore resgietered entities (trusts) e.g. assets (example - a house or land) which is owned by a Thai regsiterd company, whose shareholders (Thai and/or otherwise) hold the shares not in their personal names, but through off-shore regsieterd entities.

I wrote it up on the forum a couple years back in response to a similar question - if you want the low down, I'll have to go away and get it all the detail, suffice to say - yes, it is possible: perhaps better stated as: off shore trust structure, which would is regonised and/or upheld by a Thai court if it was challenged as a legal way to hold assets (as was the case in 2 examples recently - the judges upheld the trustees and assets held in the trust).

Are you absolutely sure? Article 1686 of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code is explicit that trusts (direct or indirect) are of no effect whatsoever. The only exception (arguably it is not even an exception) is that another may control property for an infant or a person under a disability. I have had two separate professional Thai lawyers tell me that trusts are okay and enforceable until I confronted them with that Article. One immediately admitted that he had been wrong. The other smiled and denied that he had given the advice which he had in fact spoken just a few minutes earlier.

So where please can I find some authority for your suggestion that the Thai courts now recognise and enforce trusts affecting Thai property in any circumstances at all, offshore or onshore?

My goodness we do lead a moral and lofty life here......you'd put Snow White and Mary Poppins to shame.

Don't feel ashamed of us mere mortal farang we'll get by as best we can.

I am sure you will. If you failed to learn honesty by an early age, there is little chance that you will pick it up now. Indeed, in a sense you probably cannot help yourself any more than I can help myself when I feel ashamed that my ethnic origin links me to you and the advice that you have handed out.

Would it not be appropriate to transfer this discussion to one of the "Why the Thais Do Not Want Us In Their Country" threads?

It is not just a lot of Thais who do not like people who break contracts or advocate doing so.

The Op's likely to be stuffed upwards of 25K from a known crook in the neighbourhood and you witter on about breaking contracts...........get real.

What's real is that you appear to advocate dishonesty. Woe betide anyone who trusts your word. I honour my word (but I also read contracts before I sign them) and people who advocate the opposite leave me feeling ashamed to be a farang in this country. The only time a Thai attempted to cheat me for a non-trivial sum, I honoured my contract obligations to date and sued him in the Thai court and won and was awarded what I felt was a very fair sum in compensation.

Real enough for you?

If you don't pay the last 2 moths rent, as some one said what is she going to do? Most contracts state if you break the contract the landlord can keep the deposit and that is what she will do. [Mmmm surely if she is refusing to give back the two months rent for no apparent reason, then not paying the last two months rent would be an option, not necessarily the right one but an option all the same]

Leave the house as you found it, she has not lost anything and you have not lost anything.[only the two months rent she is holding]

A previous poster said the Thai landlords never intend to repay the deposit in the majority of cases thats simply because they spend it. Do you think the landlord will worry that you know their name and address and you probably have their id number and you have the means to follow up none payment with a lawyer or even with the police, again the answer is 90% no.

So on balance look after yourself try not to be at financial disadvantage, as I said she keeps the deposit and you don't lose either so what more legally can be done? IMHO very very little.[Again looses his two months deposit for what?]

st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation.[You mean loose his deposit]

So are you recommending that the OP honours his contract or that he breaks it?

The OP has honestly acknowledged that he failed to read/understand the rental agreement before he signed it and now most of the farangs here seem to be recommending that he acts in breach of his contract because of an unproven assumption that the Thai landlord will break her contract.

Would it not be appropriate to transfer this discussion to one of the "Why the Thais Do Not Want Us In Their Country" threads?

I recently bought a Thai/English Picture Dictionary for my Daughter..

It scared the sh*t out of me as it told us that a Bat is a Bird & a Whale is a Fish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I threw the Book away but i dread to think what they are taught to be honest, if this kind of thing is allowed to be in Books, especially one's that I understand..

Was the subject of your disgust the book or the Thai language?

If you bought an English/Thai picture dictionary, would you throw it away if it showed a picture of a sealion that did not look like a lion?

How sure are you that you really did understand the book before you tossed it?

It seems very strange if she had all the correct paperwork that she would receive such treatment but who knows maybe she did and it's just messed up.

She didn't have the right paperwork to have a job, so she was working illegally.

Nothing strange in getting deported for that at all.

The authorities seem to have done everything by the book.

The funny thing is that if this lady had made her visa application showing the purpose of her travel as being "Holiday, staying with my sister and her family" and in the financial resources section had declared, "My sister and her husband will provide me with all funds necessary for travel, subsistence and pocket money" she would probably have been entitled to enter perfectly lawfully. If a relative happens to be on holiday at the home of family members, then if that person happens to spend some time looking after that person's nephews and nieces, that does not of itself constitute "employment"

I am convinced that whenever it comes to making a visa application then, unless you have something utterly despicable or completely beyond the pale that must be hidden, the best policy is always to be 100% honest and to be 100% thorough and exhaustive in one's statements and declarations.

Why do (some) Americans say "I could care less" when they appear to mean "I couldn't care less"?

"I couldn't care less" is a statement in itself, whereas "I could care less..." has an implied "but"-clause at the end - "I could care less(, but I don't)". I suspect it's of Jewish origin - imagine Billy Crystal saying it, emphasis on could and with a shrug at the end.

I sometimes use this form and finish it off with something like "I could care less, but the effort would kill me"

So the American meaning really is opposite to the English, then?

When I say, "I couldn't care less," I mean, "I care about this not at all so that it would be impossible for me to care less than that," whereas, from what you say, the American expression means that the speaker actually does care about the subject, but just not very much.

Thank you for the clarification.

My interpretation is that the American meaning is pretty much the same as the British one. As our hosts say, you think too much!

I have to plead guilty. Try as I may, I just cannot help saying what I mean instead of the opposite of what I mean.

Why do (some) Americans say "I could care less" when they appear to mean "I couldn't care less"?

"I couldn't care less" is a statement in itself, whereas "I could care less..." has an implied "but"-clause at the end - "I could care less(, but I don't)". I suspect it's of Jewish origin - imagine Billy Crystal saying it, emphasis on could and with a shrug at the end.

I sometimes use this form and finish it off with something like "I could care less, but the effort would kill me"

So the American meaning really is opposite to the English, then?

When I say, "I couldn't care less," I mean, "I care about this not at all so that it would be impossible for me to care less than that," whereas, from what you say, the American expression means that the speaker actually does care about the subject, but just not very much.

Thank you for the clarification.

There is only one problem. I could normally care less about Thai politics, but I do enjoy hearing about them from the perspective of intelligent local people with real insights into the way things work here. In other words, I did not have an opinion to have them "echo", so your question is just plain dumb.

You can continue to deny it and try to twist the truth as per usual, but I have been honest about my opinions and you are just playing kids games. I am rubber, you are glue...

A question asked from genuine interest and without hostility:

Why do (some) Americans say "I could care less" when they appear to mean "I couldn't care less"?

Reading through most of the posts on this thread, i find many very interesting thoughts. I agree that most of us learned a different system than is taught today. However, Google is going to certainly change the way today's kids learn.

So, schools should be teaching logic, creative thinking, and problem solving among things to give the students a desire to learn. As to the bad grammar, spelling, bad abbreviations, I'm afraid to say, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better because of the internet.

Now, a little story: A friend of my Thai wife's was visiting and told me I was lucky to be a farang as i could easily make more money.

I said, but I have my own business (I sell clothes online) and she could do the same. (I've made my mistakes and learned through Google and trial and error and some friends who have helped me along the way)

After some discussion, she mentioned that she even had a degree from a Thai university. I said, "oh, well then, draw me a map of Asia and show me where China is in relation to Thailand". She said she could not as they don't learn that.

I said, ok, tell me who Napolean was and as i thought, she had never heard of him.

I then asked what her major was and she said accounting. So, I said: "Oh, then what is 13 times 3. She said: "I wouldn't know that without a calculator"

Then I asked her where the Beatles come from and sure enough ( I had been warned about this one) she said Bangkok. I didn't need to ask anything else. Then and there I decided that my kid was never going to go to Thai school. He is now in (expensive) Montessori school and I am teaching him the computer at home.

You make some excellent points fiddlehead. The main flaw in the Thai educational system is that students are not taught critical thinking, problem solving and logic skills. Moreover, there is no way these skills can be taught, because the Thai teachers cannot teach these skills, as the Thai teachers lack the skills themselves.

My school hires foreign teachers to not only be English instructors, but also to teach these skills. I don't see how secondary students can learn these skills, having not been even exposed to them before age 10, and spending two 50-minute periods in a 40 student classroom with a foreign teacher, who must also teach English conversation. I teach in an EP program, and even with teaching two 100-minute periods in a 25 student classroom, student acquisition of these skills is slow and uneven. BTW - all of my 100 M2-M3 students know the Beatles are from Liverpool, because teaching western culture is part of the national curriculum for English, and I use music to teach English grammar and culture.

LOL! CAF, Bad enough you show how badly your own personal education was you then go on to criticise the poster and try to infer that his "american" education was bad..... this should be in the dictionary as an example of the word fool.

I did not take offense, and I am not ashamed of my educational/professional background. I have a B.A. in political science (4 year university degree) and a J.D.(3 year law school degree). I have two published legal journal articles, and just had a M6 reading comprehension/writing skills book published here in Thailand. I am currently working on another reading comprehension/writing skills book which will be published by McGraw-Hill. I worked as a restaurant manager for 5 years, a lawyer (admitted to 3 state bars) for 15 years, and now a teacher for 3 years.

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive and informative answers.

My main question (in terms of personal interest) was no. 1 in relation to which I have the impression that there may be an element of linguistic misunderstanding (notwithstanding that your class was held in English). I am not sure (and cannot tell from my dictionaries) whether the Thai daow or duang dow ("star") technically includes pra arthit ("the Sun"). Do you know enough Thai to answer that question? (No criticism implied if your answer is negative). I take my hat off to your Thai student who answered "Alpha Centauri" even though you consider that he was wrong.

So far as question no.2 is concerned, I see two issues. Firstly, what would you say to someone who answered "The Moon, obviously"? Secondly, what would you say to someone who answered "I cannot answer that question unless first you tell me the date"? Again it is impressive that your students were able to name the fifth planet. Your bunch really must have been the cream of the crop. I would be extremely surprised if one were to achieve a 10% success rate in a cohort of average children in the UK in the same age group.

No. 3. I am amused to see that your remark tends to suggest that at least one other contributor to this thread does not know what he is talking about.

No 4. As mentioned above, this may well be a language issue. A few hours ago I attempted to engage in conversation on this particular subject with my 14-year-old (Thai) niece (who definitely does not consider the Sun to be a star in her native language) but was rapidly brought to my knees by the realisation that my Thai vocabulary does not extend sufficiently to translate "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma"

No. 5. But it seems to me that the student who answered "Alpha Centauri" (and who obviously had knowledge more than sufficient to have given your correct answer) probably did regard it as a trick question and my suspicion is that thinking in his own mother tongue he might be right in that perception.

It seems to me that the establishment at which you teach must be pretty high flying. Are you able and willing to give an indication as to the level of fees there for a 14-year-old per annum?

With regard to #1, you need to understand that these students are in an EP program. All of their classes, except for Thai culture/history, are taught in English. The students in this particular class have completed almost 3 years of science and math instruction in an English-only setting at the secondary school level. Moreover, they have been taking English classes for at least 10 years.

As to #2, I am preparing them for a general knowledge quiz. The questions are written by Thai English teachers and the answers are judged by Thai English teachers. There's only one simple answer to any question (Thai teachers don't believe there can be more than one answer to a question). So, the moon is a satellite, and not a star. As for a date, the date is now, present tense. "What is the closest star to the earth?" That's answered in the question itself. As I said, I don;t know about the UK education system, but the solar system (planets, stars and moons) is taught in the primary school system in the U.S. in grades 3-4.

#3: I'm not sure to whom you are referring.

#4: Again, my EP students are bilingual. They are being taught in English, because they are bound for top universities, where all of their work and studies will be conducted in English. A term like "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma" probably has no Thai equivalent. That's one of the reasons science and physics are taught in English at the university level in Thailand. Try looking up computer terms in Thai. The Thais use English. Their language has not developed equivalents for new technological terms.

#5: No, the student reads a lot of sci-fi and was just guessing. All of these students are excellent science students (admission to the EP program is based on 4 criteria: math, science, English testing, and an English interview to test speaking, listening and identification skills). They fully understood their error, and each of them was blushing afterwards. BTW - their M3 science final exam had a section on identifying constellations, something I never learned, although one of my general knowledge questions asked them the name of the "north star", which one student could answer correctly.

As to star and sun in Thai, I am no expert, but this might be helpful:

sun=duang dta'-wan

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ตะวัน

dtà-wan * sun ; light of day

star=duang daao

ดวง

duang * classifier for circular objects

* disk/disc ; sphere ; orb ; circle ; dot ; spot ; speckle

ดาว

daao * star ;

* five-pointed star ;

"duang" seems to be a common term in the two words, so that leads me to believe the Thais should even have a leg up on us English speakers when it comes to determining if the sun is a star.

Thank you again for your time and trouble in responding.

If your observations are correct (and I am confident that they are, for you plainly speak on the basis of extensive teaching experience) it means that no Thai student can gain an education in any of the sciences (and perhaps mathematics) even to a standard that would be regarded as basic in the West unless they first have a strong command of the English language. So 90+% of Thai kids are stuffed before they start.

I think that your other responses also indicate (albeit in a different and less obvious way) the fundamental importance of language in all of this discussion of education.

For example, my question (#2) was about planets, not stars. I think that you have perhaps missed the point that I was trying to make in that it was a trick question. Your own (planet) answer is only correct on certain dates and if you resolve the ambiguity in the meaning of the word "planet" so that the Moon is included (option 3 in the Compact OED) then your answer is never correct.

To my shame I have to say that you probably know more about the modern system of education in UK than I do. I do not know if any astronomy whatsoever is in the current national curriculum, let alone what material at what stages. I am sufficiently old that it was necessary for me to pass an examination in Latin in order to gain entrance to my university, even though my subject was mathematics. I have not set foot in an English schoolroom for 40 years or more. I do, however, have direct experience of the emerging products of the modern system and (allowing for some very creditable and pleasing exceptions) on balance I am deeply unimpressed.

So much of education is dependent upon the language. This discussion puts me in mind of a line from the Pensioner's Love Ballad: "Your teeth are like stars - they come out at night"

I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.

If, perchance, you would not mind indulging the curiosity of an elderly and pedantic farang with strong concerns relating to the standard of basic education in Thailand, could you answer for me the following questions:

1. Was your session with your students conducted in the English language or in Thai

These were EP students and the session was conducted in English. The students speak and understand English very well. All of them will end up in top universities. They completely understood the question, but could not connect that the sun was a star. I told their science teacher this (the students had just completed their studies in astronomy) and he tore his hair out.

2. If I were to ask you to name for me the planet nearest to the earth, what would be your response?

Venus (I took a university astronomy course). I wouldn't ask students that question, as this is a general knowledge test for 14 year olds, but I did ask them the 5th planet out from the sun, which most of them knew.

3. If one of your students had given you the answer "Proxima Centauri" would you classify him or her as having given a good or a bad response?

In fact, one of the students answered "Alpha Centauri" and I gave my "c'mon, you know better" gesture.

4. Purely as a guess, if you had put the same question (in the English language) to a bunch of average pupils of the same age in an average London comprehensive school, what level of "correct" responses would you expect?

I don't know because I didn't grow up in London, although my parents have lived nearby for the past 10 years. As for students in the U.S., they know that the sun is a star by about the 4th grade (age 9).

5. Was the context of your session such that your students were expecting trick questions?

They were answering general knowledge questions, not trick questions, and I announced to the class the type of questions I would be asking. Other types of questions they couldn't answer:

Name the 3 axis powers in WWII? What is the largest country by land mass? Where is the world's tallest building located?

BTW - these students won the quizbee competition for which I was preparing them. The question they missed was "Where is the Statue of Liberty located?"

Thank you very much indeed for your comprehensive and informative answers.

My main question (in terms of personal interest) was no. 1 in relation to which I have the impression that there may be an element of linguistic misunderstanding (notwithstanding that your class was held in English). I am not sure (and cannot tell from my dictionaries) whether the Thai daow or duang dow ("star") technically includes pra arthit ("the Sun"). Do you know enough Thai to answer that question? (No criticism implied if your answer is negative). I take my hat off to your Thai student who answered "Alpha Centauri" even though you consider that he was wrong.

So far as question no.2 is concerned, I see two issues. Firstly, what would you say to someone who answered "The Moon, obviously"? Secondly, what would you say to someone who answered "I cannot answer that question unless first you tell me the date"? Again it is impressive that your students were able to name the fifth planet. Your bunch really must have been the cream of the crop. I would be extremely surprised if one were to achieve a 10% success rate in a cohort of average children in the UK in the same age group.

No. 3. I am amused to see that your remark tends to suggest that at least one other contributor to this thread does not know what he is talking about.

No 4. As mentioned above, this may well be a language issue. A few hours ago I attempted to engage in conversation on this particular subject with my 14-year-old (Thai) niece (who definitely does not consider the Sun to be a star in her native language) but was rapidly brought to my knees by the realisation that my Thai vocabulary does not extend sufficiently to translate "gravity constrained hydrogen fusion plasma"

No. 5. But it seems to me that the student who answered "Alpha Centauri" (and who obviously had knowledge more than sufficient to have given your correct answer) probably did regard it as a trick question and my suspicion is that thinking in his own mother tongue he might be right in that perception.

It seems to me that the establishment at which you teach must be pretty high flying. Are you able and willing to give an indication as to the level of fees there for a 14-year-old per annum?

I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.

If, perchance, you would not mind indulging the curiosity of an elderly and pedantic farang with strong concerns relating to the standard of basic education in Thailand, could you answer for me the following questions:

1. Was your session with your students conducted in the English language or in Thai?

2. If I were to ask you to name for me the planet nearest to the earth, what would be your response?

3. If one of your students had given you the answer "Proxima Centauri" would you classify him or her as having given a good or a bad response?

4. Purely as a guess, if you had put the same question (in the English language) to a bunch of average pupils of the same age in an average London comprehensive school, what level of "correct" responses would you expect?

5. Was the context of your session such that your students were expecting trick questions?

Kitch22, how long have you been in Thailand and how much interaction have you had with young people here? My guess would be not very much because most Thai students and graduates of government schools don't even know what countries border Thailand and probably wouldn't be able to find Thailand on a globe. To think that any of them ever heard of "Proxima Centauri" at school is absurd. I suggest you get out and do a little interacting with the local populace and you will see for yourself.

Though I am not a Thai resident I have spent a total of a little over 4 years in the Kingdom and speak read and write the Thai language to a standard which my (peasant and non-English-speaking) family and neighbours find adequate (according to what they say to my face).

There are in particular two Thai children (aged 5 and 14 respectively) with whom I speak frequently concerning their experiences at school. The 5 year-old is in a private nursery and her English is coming along pretty well, all things considered, with some help from me (in her written homework and pronunciation). The elder of the girls is bright but her English is poor and she knows it and would like to do something about it. I am presently mulling over what I should do to assist.

I am of the opinion that in my village nobody (other than perhaps the Doctor, the Headmaster and myself) would recognise the phrase "Proxima Centauri". I doubt that 10% of the population of UK would do so either.

It is clear that you have not the faintest comprehension of my purpose in raising those 5 numbered questions.

And the word is "Kitsch"

Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even ededutter a choerent, simple sentence.

Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.

t

My G/F is an accountant and graduated from a BKK Uni... She speaks English well and has travelled to several countries.. Even so she was still astounded to discover that whales weren't fish and that the tides were affected by the Moon... I won't go into basic Geography or History as her grasp of those subjects is still terrible... I know that education has changed a lot in the West since I left school and less emphasis is placed on 'general knowledge', World events and History but I'm still amazed by just how little of what goes on in the World Thais understand. The just don't seem to have much interest either.. My GF is keen to ask questions but there doesn't seem to be any 'thirst' for knowledge.. Guess it just isn't important to them.

I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.

If, perchance, you would not mind indulging the curiosity of an elderly and pedantic farang with strong concerns relating to the standard of basic education in Thailand, could you answer for me the following questions:

1. Was your session with your students conducted in the English language or in Thai?

2. If I were to ask you to name for me the planet nearest to the earth, what would be your response?

3. If one of your students had given you the answer "Proxima Centauri" would you classify him or her as having given a good or a bad response?

4. Purely as a guess, if you had put the same question (in the English language) to a bunch of average pupils of the same age in an average London comprehensive school, what level of "correct" responses would you expect?

5. Was the context of your session such that your students were expecting trick questions?

I condemn the violence but have no alternative suggestion as to a way in which the majority can effectively secure their right to democratic representation.

Which is why your side lost... lack of imagination

Not "my side." I am not a Thai citizen and have no right to vote on this. Additionally I think that Abhisit is more honest, brighter and better educated than Thaksin and a much better Prime Minister ... if only he could get the electorate to vote for him or his party.

I am located in a poor village in Chiang Rai and many of my neighbours say that they are not happy about the declared intention of PAD (the sponsors of the present court/army-appointed government) to dilute their electoral power until they can be "re-educated". I sympathise with my neighbours in their disquiet.

Sky News have commented that this comes around roughly every four years in Thailand, just like the Olympics......

Thats no joke! I just read since 1932 there have been 18 coups!

The last coup September 2006 was against a democratic elected government.

since disbanded by the courts for vote buying - get the facts straight.

As instructed by their military masters.

We already have the facts straight. The electorate is and always has been aware of those same facts. Every elected government in Thailand has taken office on the back of votes corruptly bought. In the West they use lies and false promises (including broken promises of referenda) to buy votes. In Thailand it is all very much more transparent.

The establishment through military force has tried to limit the choice of the people by excluding and disbanding the party the people want and a whole big section of the electorate is unhappy with that situation.

I condemn the violence but have no alternative suggestion as to a way in which the majority can effectively secure their right to democratic representation.

Democracy in any form Doubtfull in the next 50 years

Sure things will change. Thai People have A mountain to climb

At this moment I don't think they have the willpower to go for it.

I hope this mess sorts it self out without a Civil War

That would certainly bring change But at what cost

Thousands upon Thousands. No not a good idea.

My understanding is that we are not permitted to discuss here the inevitable event that will someday remove the barrier to civil war in Thailand that has endured for decades.