morpho

If this article is factual, then I really feel sorry for the guy (regardless of where he's from). As for the perpetrators (again regardless of where they are from) of his beating, just goes to show you that money talks in Thailand more than justice (but anyone who has been here for more than a week already knows that).

BTW, I am from the USA.

My greatest fear driving my motorbike in Chiang Mai (or anywhere else in Thailand for that matter)...that is, getting rear ended by another motorbike or car/truck when I either stop at a crosswalk while people cross the road AND the light is RED or at an intersection when the light turns red just before I get there. I've lost count of the number of times that someone has sped past me under both circumstances...happened twice just yesterday. And knowing Thai drivers, if they hit me they will keep right on going.

I didn't like that island much when I went there several years back...and now I probably will never go there again.

My condolences to her family.

These Thai men are just foaming at the mouth to get a chance to beat a falang senseless. Doesn't take much, like a ticking time bomb. Shows you how much they really hate falangs.

I agree 110%! I feel provoked all the time...just itching to start something. You can actually see the disdain/hate in their eyes for a falang. It's really sad because I know so many nice, friendly Thais (men and women) but it's really difficult to forget the rotten ones.

Vietnam is the place I can't stop going back to! As much as I enjoy living in Thailand, Vietnam is the place that fascinates me the most!

. Why Vietnam, I haven't been ???

Been going to Vietnam since 2004...will be going back in Feb for 3 months. People (foreigners) I talk to either love it there or hate it...I am one who loves it. I just find the country, people, culture, etc. much more interesting. And personally I find most Vietnamese much friendlier than most Thais. After more than 3 years living in Chiang Mai, I'm making plans to move to Vietnam either later this year or next year if I can work out getting visas and some other things. I think it's all a matter of personal preference so I can only suggest that if you haven't been there, go check it out and form your own opinions.

I suggest you stay for 6 months or more before you make you final decision.

I lived in Vietnam for a little over 1 year. I lived in HCMC it was ok but I didn't find it that great. This was in 2003/2004 time frame. What I really didn't care for was the control of the govt.

Don't know how many times I was watching HBO and then the screen goes blank for the next 2hrs because the govt didn't want you watching that movie. Beer, food was cheap but I found hotels to be more expensive than Thailand or Cambodia. A good friend of mine that is in the military came to visit me and he was positive he was being followed the complete time he was there. Not sure if that was true but I would believe it. Vietnam is still very much a communist country. Government is not easy to deal with.

Yeah...I plan to do a 6-month stint in Vietnam but will still keep my apartment in Chiang Mai until I make a final decision on a final move (or not). I agree that the govt exercises controls that are a pain but I also think that things have loosened up a lot since 2004 (when I first went there) and I don't see much difference than Thailand these days. As for living in Saigon, that is probably the last place I would choose to live in...never have liked the place much. I'm leaning more towards Danang or Hanoi or Nha Trang. After 3+ years living in Chiang Mai, I'm inclined to settle in near the beach which makes Danang or Nha Trang more likely.

After reading a recent post about the benefits of having Permanent residence in Phillipines I am seriously consideringh moving there,I am really tired of all the visa non-sense here-the work permits necessary even for residents etc,the non-sense re-entry permit,90 day report,certificate of residence which is never confirmed.Gawd,what a flippin nightmare.

the Philippines is one of the fastest growing economies in Asia.

The people speak English, and the beaches are truly stunning.

Apart from rental accomodation, (In the Big Cities, Such as Cebu). which gets you a great rental price if you want to buy. Everything else is about half the price of Thailand.

The ladies are great, its so refreshing to take someone out and have a laugh, because they understand you.

There are exceptions of course. But in the main these girls are not money driven, they just want a better life, than the slums they are in at present. Give that to them and they will be so grateful, and what a turn on, to have someone speak to you in English when your having sex hahaha.

I left Thailand, where I still have many friends after 9 years to go to the Philippines and I have not looked back one bit.

i will return to Thailand to visit my friends, but the Philippines is my home now.

And, by the way, dont believe all the crap you hear about it being dangerous, the people are great, just dont go where not not suppose to, same same as in Thailand.

I agree with your comments about the Philippines, especially concerning the women. Wish I could live there but I just can't warm up to the idea of living on an island or group of islands, plus I can't get used to Filipino food. But I definitely like going there for holiday...2 weeks next month. Enjoy!

Vietnam is the place I can't stop going back to! As much as I enjoy living in Thailand, Vietnam is the place that fascinates me the most!

. Why Vietnam, I haven't been ???

Been going to Vietnam since 2004...will be going back in Feb for 3 months. People (foreigners) I talk to either love it there or hate it...I am one who loves it. I just find the country, people, culture, etc. much more interesting. And personally I find most Vietnamese much friendlier than most Thais. After more than 3 years living in Chiang Mai, I'm making plans to move to Vietnam either later this year or next year if I can work out getting visas and some other things. I think it's all a matter of personal preference so I can only suggest that if you haven't been there, go check it out and form your own opinions.

Sad loss of young lives...but fortunately they didn't end up killing or injuring someone else in the crash.

My experience is that the nicest people are where there are the fewest foreign tourists. This seems to apply not only to Thailand but also to other countries in SE Asia. The few foreigners actually living in such places seem much more assimilated into the local culture and thus much more accepted.

"Flooding due to heavy rain"…what else would flooding be due to????

An easy option would be Kanchanaburi. Not far from Bangkok, waterfalls, rivers, national parks, lakes, etc.

You could stay on a floating room on the river as well as one on the big lake towards the Burma border. I even think the Mom wooden bridge has been rebuilt.

If you've not been to Angkok Wat, it's definitely worth a visit. Amazing...but will be crowded. A must see.

Vietnam has, from what I hear, a great motorcycle trip in the highlands.

Laos is a great place also. Vang Vieng, Luang Prabang...both on a river and a nice national park with waterfalls nearby LP.

Or, try heading up to Loei. Beautiful mountains.

Last year took my new Honda Forza to Kanchanaburi with help in navigation a local Thai lady, 5 days touring some 1200 km a interesting trip...now as for Viet Nam here is a story: attachment:

That is an interesting trip report…and totally diametric to my experiences traveling to Vietnam 8 times since 2004. Looks like you just had a string of very bad luck. In my time there, I definitely have had some bad encounters with locals (just like I have had almost anywhere where I have traveled). However, I have found most Vietnamese to be very friendly and accommodating (especially more than most Thais). But much depends on where you go. People in the South (esp. Saigon) are definitely different than people in the North (and both still don't care for each other). And the problems I have had have mostly been in the South, but I also made great friends in the South too. Being American, I wondered how I would be viewed in the North and have been amazed to see how friendly and open they are to me. Some of the nicest local people I have met anywhere live in the North, esp. in the countryside in the Far North. Heading back to Vietnam in February for 3 months and greatly looking forward to it.

My suggestion would be northern Vietnam. You can pick up a bike in Hanoi. The loop I would suggest is Hanoi-Mai Chai-Son La-Dien Bien Phu-Lai Chau-Ha Giang-Cao Bang-Lang Son-Hanoi. From Lang Son, you could also drive to Halong Bay along the coast and return to Hanoi from there. Tons of beautiful mountain scenery along this route and great people. The weather can a little bit cool and damp at times but also can be sunny and warm at other times.

If you want better weather, riding north from Hue or Danang to Khe Sanh and Phong Nha Park and then south to Quang Tri/DMZ and The Street Without Joy near the coast back to Hue or Danang would be a shorter loop.

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

If someone put a plastic bag over your head you would confess to raping your own mother to make it stop. very easy to torture someone and leave no marks. they do not know the Thai language, the interpreter was a freaked food vendor. The one kid still has a bruise mark on his chest but amazingly the three doctors could not see it but his lawyer could.

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

Do you walk around with your nuts hanging out all day long ?

If someone was to kick them black and blue how would anyone notice ? especially if you were under police supervision every time you were in public.

More of your body is not on show in public than is. Do you really struggle to understand that ?.

Do you really struggle with understanding English?

If you read my posts correctly, I'm just saying that the physical evidence of some kind of torture has not been clearly evident. And the guys should clearly state to their parents and lawyers (who they apparently can speak freely to) what took place. Even if there is no physical evidence, a complete and accurate description of what happened would give them more credibility in their assertions and help in their defense.

There…I've said it twice so you can hopefully understand.

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

If someone put a plastic bag over your head you would confess to raping your own mother to make it stop. very easy to torture someone and leave no marks. they do not know the Thai language, the interpreter was a freaked food vendor. The one kid still has a bruise mark on his chest but amazingly the three doctors could not see it but his lawyer could.

I hear ya. But they keep saying that they were beaten. I just think they should clearly state to their parents and their lawyers how they were abused and forced into a confession…it just gives more credibility to their assertions and could help to explain why there was no (or not much) obvious physical evidence. I have no doubt that Thai police used "improper" interrogation techniques…enough to force a confession is the conundrum.

This is really a conundrum for me. Although I have doubt that these guys are the guilty ones. I haven't seen any physical evidence made public to indicate that they were beaten into a confession by the police. And that would only leave intense verbal interrogation to get a confession out of them and it would seem that they caved in quite easily if there were not badly physically beaten. I recognize that these guys are young and not in their home country but it seems that you just would not confess to such a heinous crime if you were really not involved. I just don't know what to think about the whole affair anymore.

Hopefully all of the Chinese tourists predicted to visit Chiang Mai will change their plans and book a trip to the moon.

I remember the first time I visited my first Thai girlfriend's family in Buriram in 2003. As we drove around the countryside over several days, my girlfriend was constantly pointing out the really nice houses that had been built either for a foreigner/Thai couple to live in or for her family (or both). Besides how nice the houses looked in comparison to most other houses, I remember her saying that girl's boyfriend is Swiss, that one from Australian, that one German, that one from Canada etc, etc. My guess is the rest of Isaan is similar. There must be a fortune injected into the economy just in house construction.

Reading many of the replies to the innumerable posts about the Koh Tao murders, I am just curious to know if people think the police have actually arrested the real killers or not?

I don't have any helpful advice (I think it's been provided by others)…but I have one question. How can anyone NOT keep copies of their passport and current visas, entry permits, etc.????

I personally don't think this "phenomenon" is just confined to Thai women. I have female FB friends from Cambodia and the Philippines (and to a lesser extent from Vietnam) who are constantly posting pics of the phones, jewelry, and other trinkets that their foreigner boyfriends or husbands have given them. One girl I know in the Philippines landed an obviously very rich boyfriend and she's constantly posting pics of the expensive items (including a new car) that he's bought her and the expensive hotels they stay in everywhere. At first it didn't bother me, but then it just became a constant stream of boring, uninteresting posts like that so I "unfollowed" her. I personally find "the phenomenon" unbecoming and shallow, and would not be pleased if she (or any other girl who did the same) were my girlfriend….but to each his own.

I go to Vietnam annually now and the past 2 years have been in Hanoi for Tet. And I will be going back next year for 3 months.

In Hanoi, I stay at the Especen Hotel (ww.especen.vn) and definitely recommend it. I would not describe it as a guesthouse but it is a small, quaint hotel. I like it because it is on a small, quiet street with no car traffic and little motorbike traffic. The rooms are clean, furnished well-enough and some have mini balconies…and the staff is polite and helpful. Plus the price is right for me. They will provide a breakfast on request but there is not restaurant in the hotel. The hotel is also near Ly Quoc Su and Nha Tho streets which have lots of great restaurants, bakeries, and coffee shops…and only a 10-minute walk to Hoan Kiem Lake. So basically you're in the middle of the Old Quarter.

If the Especen does not look right for you, there are a number of good, small hotels with restaurants on Hang Hanh Street which is only 3 minutes walking from Hoan Kiem Lake. Artisan Lakeview Hotel (http://artisanlakeviewhotel.com) might be a good option. This small street is also nice because it is not does not have much car and motorbike traffic, plus there are restaurants, etc on this street too. Also, my favorite pub, the Polite Pub, is on Hang Hanh St if you are looking for a great place for a drink and to relax.

And don't forget to eat bun cha (a local Hanoi dish) at on Hang Manh Street…the best bun cha anywhere!

I also haven't been to Halong Bay for a long time…plan to go back in March. But plenty of boats running 2 day, 1 night or 3 day, 2 night trips. Can just book a boat through the hotel of travel agency nearby.

Not sure if you plan to visit other areas, but my favorites are Quy Nhon and Dalat.

If you have further questions or need more help, feel free to PM me.

These guys might be the real perpetrators of this horrendous crime and if they are, they should be skinned alive. But the Thai police are totally responsible for this mess and all of the skepticism/doubt about the crime investigation and legal process. If they had just done their job methodically and relied on all of the investigative and forensic expertise offered to them and not run a daily soap opera with press conferences and media briefs, they would not be so heavily scrutinized and doubted so much now.

But of course, this is Thailand and Thais have to save face...and know everything and don't need help from anyone.