SmugFarangBore

hmm since SFB under this name can't abide by the rules ... I foresee him going away very soon!

Those are the facts, nothing more.

The additional fact that they have rubbished your entire argument a mere bonus.

Adiós.

I see factual posts are being deleted so pointless continuing the discussion.

Adiós.

No doubt many of the foreigners that come here and get on their high horse about the predicaments of others are themselves engaged in illegal activities in one way or another.

The seriousness of the laws broken is immaterial.

However the hypocrisy is there for all to see.

Thai aren't all that bad - some of the planes are getting on a bit, but overall the experience for me has usually been satisfactory or better. There was one exception on a flight from Singapore to Bangkok when the plane counld't retract its undercarriage and had to return to Singapore airport shortly after taking off - twice!

How scary.

Last time I was up with Thai, we were without power for something that was proably a half minute or so (it did feel like a lot more than that) about half way between Ko Samui and Bangkok. Extremely professional stewardess smiling from ear to ear with her lips, but the eyes were anything but happy. And her skin actually got a slight greyish tint...

I got so phobic that I started to make plans to go home to Norway by train. As far as i know, with a possible exception for the VN-CH border, it could be done from Saigon.

It could probably happen with any airline, but I'm not going anywhere with Thai for a looong time...

See my post earlier about Thailand's poor aviation safety.

Something everyone should be well aware of before deciding to fly here.

SFB is now accusing more than 50% (constitutes MOST) of all Thais as being criminals.

No I wasn't. I said most have broken the law at one time or another.

Big difference.

I think that may be a violation of the rules, but let's pretend it isn't.

That comment goes some way to explaining your view on this matter.

I suppose you also agree with websites to report people and a 'war room' to monitor and deal with offenders in cyberspace too?

Since SFB has stated that all Thais are prostitutes "at one time or another" I would like for him to tell us more about his impressions of Thai people. (yes it shows that he has had little or no contact with many average Thais at all)

Not going to even bother dignifying that nonsense with a response.

a country where most of the population is involved in more serious illegal activities than expressing themselves in a book.

Where MOST of the population is involved in more serious illegal activities ....... There's the hyperbole' of the week! and it is only Sunday!

But please SFB --- tell us what MOST of the population is doing that is worse than L.M.

Sure.

Prostitution, tax avoidance, corruption, counterfeiting, accepting bribes and under the table payments, road traffic offences, drug use, drug dealing, violence, drunk and disorderly behaviour, etc, etc, etc.

All worse offences than writing a paragraph in a book and all done by most of the population at one time or another.

The guy was a flight risk on trial for a serious crime (here). You aren't complaining that some people don't get caught or get released or acquitted are you?

Why was he a flight risk?

How could he have left the country if his passport was kept by the authorities?

Please explain why murderers, child molesters, those involved in massive corruption (such as Thaksin) are allowed bail and even allowed to leave the country while on bail.

It's hypocritical in the extreme, and you defending the inexcusable actions of the Thai authorities in this matter makes you a hypocrite too.

I find the reactions on this thread from the usual misinformed and opinionated fanatics quite appalling but at the same time they are strangely amusing.

Posters shouting from the rooftops about someone else's apparent 'crimes' and how he should know better and deserved his punishment while living in a country where most of the population is involved in more serious illegal activities than expressing themselves in a book.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

And Thailand is one very big glass house my friends.

Don't worry your ass so much you picky people , the way things are going in Thailand at this time with no usefull skids on the horizon , smelly/dumb/scruffy cheap backpackers or any-one else for that matter that has a buck in his jeans , will be gladly welcomed by vendors trying to cope to feed thier families . It is not even just the cost of things that are driving people across the borders into other countries , it is as much , if not more , the general attitude of Thai towards visitors , they are like T.S , bloody sanctimonious and think they are above everybody . Nasty comments , snide looks and the "We don't need you here " responses , lack of service , poor workmanship and especialy 'Mai-pen-rai' are beginning to bite back , give it a while and watch the exodus of even more buisiness ventures , coupled with expats returning to thier 'Terrible' countries where there are safety nets . The smug are to take a hit also , so watch what you say and improve how you treat people , the global recession is rearing a much pickier genre of traveller , who will by-pass the type of destination that Thailand has become over the last several years , neigbours are far friendlier and more tolerant besides being less expensive .

The chickens are coming home to roost.

The time for a major attitude adjustment and some soul-searching among the Thais involved in the tourism sector is long overdue.

I vote with my feet. I live and work in Thailand but spend nearly all my free time and spending money in neighbouring countries.

And FYI I'm certainly no backpacker, $500 a day is my average spend.

Considering that many of the owners of Thai Airlines are the same higher-ups that orchestrated the PAD outrage, it's nice to see them hoisted on their own petards.

Very similar to what I posted on page one which was then edited without explanation, expect this to disappear as well mate.

My factual post about Lech Tomacz Kisielwicz and his experiences with Thai Airways also disappeared completely.

Thailand's loss is Laos', Vietnam's and Cambodia's gain.

They will all overtake Thailand as the destination of choice for the backpacker or 'budget traveller' in the near future by the very nature of what they currently offer.

Thailand is now too expensive, lacks the freedom it used to have and is a magnet for mass sex-tourism. Among other factors of course.

Having travelled to all three competitors very recently I can assuredly say I enjoyed my visits to each of them enormously, more so than I have done on R&R in Thailand in the past 18 months.

i beg to differ.

while prices have risen, there is still HUGE value for money to be had everywhere. As for freedom, that too is abundant, especially if you understand that this freedom is a priveledge rather than a right.

I just got back from Vietnam yesterday.

The number one complaint from nearly every tourist I met was Thailand was getting too expensive.

It's spelt 'privilege' BTW! It sort of blunts your sanctimonious lectures if you can't even spell it correctly.

I'll stick my neck out and say a pogrom against Chinese-Thais is probably what it will culminate in. Similar to the riots in Jakarta when Suhartho was ousted.

The Thailand you know now, will not exist in a couple of years time.

In a word, yes.

Thailand to suffer most from crisis

Thailand's loss is Laos', Vietnam's and Cambodia's gain.

They will all overtake Thailand as the destination of choice for the backpacker or 'budget traveller' in the near future by the very nature of what they currently offer.

Thailand is now too expensive, lacks the freedom it used to have and is a magnet for mass sex-tourism. Among other factors of course.

Having travelled to all three competitors very recently I can assuredly say I enjoyed my visits to each of them enormously, more so than I have done on R&R in Thailand in the past 18 months.

If you think Thai are bad then check out the long list of these Thai airlines violations in attempts to cut corners and cover up poor safety.

http://www.dontflythai.com/

Everyone who visits Thailand should be very wary about aviation standards here.

Strange, there's no mention in the article of the obscene bonuses, several times in excess of last year's amount, that the board of directors recently gave themselves that had to be subsequently blocked by an injunction from the courts brought by legal action by shareholders.

While TG feeds the greedy pigs of privileged, influencial and powerful Thais before making paying customers a priority they will remain a substandard loss making business.

The Thai Government will continue to bail them out to the tune of taxpayer billions for the prestige of having a 'National Carrier'.

As I pay taxes in Thailand I find their conduct rather offensive TBH.

And who was a deputy PM in the government which sent the Thai economy tanking in 1997? Only one guess there....

I presume you mean Thaksin.

Problem is, he was appointed deputy PM after the Baht was floated in 97, which was the spark that ultimately caused the crisis.

predictably- a very informative story has been used as a spring board to bash Thaksin.

I don't think they are aware that some members within the ISOC were discovered trying to kill Thaksin.

You'll find that this isn't some issue that suddenly appeared last month as soon as Abhisit came into power, but is the continuation of a policy put in place by Samak. But you have just jumped on the bandwagon because you see it as a way of nailing Abhisit. It has all been covered in the other recent Rohingya thread, and others dating back a year ago. Of course, you won't be interested in those because Samak was in charge then. But here's the link any way...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Samak-Rohing...nd-t177347.html

Also, from Human Rights Watch, Arakan, March last year:

"Human Rights Watch(HRW),Arakan has drawn its attention with grave shock to the news of above published in the Bangkok Post dated March 29,2008. It is also learnt that relation between Mr. Samak, Prime minister of Thailand and Than Shwe, PM, Burma is improving since recent days on the basis of mutual economic interest amid severe economic sanctions on Burma Junta government by USA and EU since Junta`s crack donw on Monks peaceful protests. At a result 31 protesters were shot dead and hundreds were arrested. Now Mr. Samak is ignoring the economic sanctions and Burma People`s interest and cooperating Than Shwe, the human slaughter and power monger.

Moreover, Samak`s decision to put Rohingyas in a deserted Island ( tough place ) is totally against humanity. There are different religious and different races of people from Burma taking shelter as refugees in Thailand . Why Samak has chosen only Rohingyas to put in tough place ? Why such a religious discrimination was generated in the mind and conscience of Mr. Samak even though Rohingya in Thailand are small in quantity ? It is suspected that Gen. Than Shwe planned to eliminate Rohingya Muslims not only from Burma but also from globe. That's why a question is arising that Than Shwe is trying to exploit the good relationship between he and Samak. It is perceived that Samak is going to materialize the dream of Than Shwe and possibility of silent genocides time to time on such deserted Island"

And, The Guardian, from late last year:

"In Burma, the Rohingya are considered stateless with few rights. Their circumstances have prompted many to seek a better life in prosperous Muslim Malaysia. Most slip into Bangladesh, where people smugglers organize their passage for about £200. Boats packed with migrants set off during October and April, when the seas are calmer. Middlemen in Thailand pay off immigration authorities then take the travelers by land to Malaysia. Thailand turned a blind eye to the traffic, as the Rohingya never planned to stay. But last March the then prime minister, Samak Sundaravej, announced a crackdown on the Rohingya. In December, the new policy of pushing boats out to sea seemed to take effect. The Thai navy intercepts the migrants and hands them to the army, but it seems the army detains them and uses its own boats to push migrants out to sea. By the end of 2005, the UN refugee agency recorded 13,000 Rohingya in Malaysia. Up to 7,000 are estimated to have slipped into the country since, bringing the total to about 20,000."

For a more up to date article, I suggest you get hold of a copy of this weeks Economist, which also lays the blame squarely with Samak. You're correct that the global news media is covering this story, but not in the way you would have it.

No rants, just facts.

Yes, that's all very interesting, but...

You've still not provided any proof to back up your statement that the recent documented human rights abuses by the Thai military under the watch of the current Thai government are "looking somewhat exaggerated."

"While rebutting aspects of the initial account, their testimony still detailed brutal beatings by the Thais and confirmed that the men were set adrift in a flimsy wooden craft by the Thais during January.

At the time there was international condemnation about earlier instances of pushing Rohingya boat people back out to sea, and the Thai Government was insisting such behaviour was not part of its policy."

Arakan project report

Does anyone know of any Thai words that are in general use in the English Language???

My parents and grandparents, who spoke Ulster Scots dialect, used to use a word or words sounding like "nig-noy" for something 'trivial' or 'nit-picking.' I have no idea where it came from and, of course, it wasn't used in everyday English. But I have often wondered if there was any link with "nit noy."

Not a chance.

More likely from Scots or Gaelic.

A shadowy organisation within the military to be sure.

Of course political observers and those with interests in Thailand will be familiar with the infamous ISOC bombing campaigns against hill tribe villagers in the 70's.

Then there's the plot to assassinate the former PM Thaksin Shinawatra, conducted by the ISOC.

What is most worrying though, despite the frightening, criminal history behind this organisation is they are answerable to almost no-one.

We have the junta that took power in 2006 after the coup to thank for restoring this organisation back to full operational status. Indeed, the junta handed out millions in cash rewards to ISOC staff when they came to power.

Yes, you've used that argument before while defending Thaksin.

I only appear to "defend Thaksin" when your rants against that odious man get in the way of truth and fact.

He isn't hiding under the bed, and he isn't in your closet waiting to jump out and scare you.

You claim not to like him, yet shower him with praise while attacking every move Abhisit makes. Me thinks you doth protest too much. Or are you really arguing a case you don't believe in just to provoke? I believe there is a word for that.

Nonsense. Just because I point out your inaccuracies and falsehoods does not me a Thaksin supporter make.

In fact, you've done it again here. Because you don't agree with our appraisal of Thaksin it is an "obsessive and erroneous viewpoint". In other posts you've used "simple minded" to describe those you don't agree with. I'm sorry, but I beg to differ, and I'd like to know what power gives you the right to decide what is correct and what is erroneous? I have followed the career of Thaksin from his PDP days, and was a supporter of him right from the start. My reasoning was that a man who was new to politics, rising through a relatively clean party, with the backing of Chamlong, and already wealthy would be a clean sweep for Thailand. Here was a man who could really make a change. His first move on the political stage was to promise to solve Bangkok's traffic problems, with grandeous schemes including using helicopters to lift broken down cars off the roads and out of the way. In fact, he even set a deadline and promised to resign if he never met it. Should have been a warning as to the way he worked, but I stuck with him. The first real tarnishing of my view was the asset concealment case when he became PM, but I still wanted to give him a chance. Then he went and aligned himself with the same old clique. He had a mandate from the people and a working majority but he still went and included Banharn, Chavilit, Newin, Chalerm and all the other corrupt, lying same olds from previous corrupt, lying governments in his cabinet. Why? Over the years came the war on drugs, the muzzling of the press, the corruption stories, the murder of opponents, the promotion of family members and the law suits against anyone daring to tell the truth about him. Come on, it is not that difficult to see what he really is. That is why I use the word hate to describe how I see him now. He had a golden chance to really do something for the country and he not only blew it, he actually turned it on its head and used it to advance his own wealth and power. And I have no doubt what so ever that, had he been allowed to continue in office, he would have cemented his place there, moving his people into the police and military command, eliminating his opponents, biding his time before becoming El Presidente, supreme commander and glorious leader.

There. My beliefs, my facts, not some vague comments and abuse to anyone who differs in opinion.

Oh I see how he really is, but you can't see what this government really is, and that's the problem.

Now, why would they want to do that? Any policy towards the Rohingya was put in place by the proxies of your beloved Thaksin.

The military stopped listening to requests from the PPP a long time ago.

You also fail to note that the ISOC, the military unit accused of the atrocities, was only called back into service by the military junta after the coup that ousted Thaksin and has been given 'special powers' by the military to conduct such operations.

But don't let the facts get in the way of another obsessive anti-Thaksin rant eh?

If there was substantial truth to these stories, surely the current government would be shouting it to the world?

There is more than substantial truth to these stories. All the major networks have covered this story in past weeks, and are continuing to do so, exposing these human rights abuses to the World.

What did you expect Abhisit to do

I expect him to address the matter as leader of the country would do. Unfortunately he cannot do that, as he has no control over the Thai military.

which is increasingly looking somewhat exaggerated?

Links to back up your claims please.

He's offered to assist a UN investigation.

He's also assigned the very military unit accused of the crimes to investigate.

I'm somewhat surprised by the wailing of the Thaksin brigade over this story, bearing in mind his less than perfect treatment of refugees, including the Rohingya, and legal Thai citizens. The story broke when Abhisit had been in office for less than a month, any world leader would check the facts before blindly condemning the alledged perpetrators. If any of it is proved to be true, you would hope that those perpetrators, and those who instructed them, will face justice. I await a further list of charges for Samak et al.

Again trying to blame Thaksin for abuses committed under this government's watch by their allies; the Thai military.

I suspect that you, like many of the other posters here are attempting to attribute my position on certain political matters for me because I simply don't agree with the obsessive and erroneous viewpoint that Thailand's ills are solely down to one man now living in exile.

Probably because, to the best of my knowledge, no poster (let alone plural "posters") has ever posted that...

and that most often in the past, those posters that have said this of other posters were banned as multi-ID'ers or repeated forum rule breakers.

You have still to back up your repeated allegations of me having multiple usernames.

Not a shred of proof you have provided, nor can you provide to back up your claims.

But I see you are still chipping away trying to discredit me as such.

Predictable, and tedious.

The pitiful handful of Thais that agree with him will have absolutely no chance of fulfilling his platform.

Disagree.

It almost happened in the 30's.

Could easily swing that way again in the future.

Nothing pitiful about having a brain and using it to have your own opinion either.

Unfortunately, I can also see a time when it could happen again. That's no reason to look forward to it though, as you seem to be so gleefully doing so. Do you really think that with a weakened "master" the military will simply fade away and allow the people to take control of the country? You need to wake up. Sure, a lot of people will protest, in any colour shirt they want, but a lot of people will then be killed. Something's rotten in the state of Thai politics, but you only need to look to our neighbours in the west to see that things could get a whole lot more so.

How on Earth did you ascertain from my post that I would be "looking forward with glee" to that happening?

I suspect that you, like many of the other posters here are attempting to attribute my position on certain political matters for me because I simply don't agree with the obsessive and erroneous viewpoint that Thailand's ills are solely down to one man now living in exile.