slipperx

I think it depends on how straightforward your application is - whether it is a repeat visa, whether you have all the documents they need to see the application is genuine, the girl will come back, she has enough money to support herself whilst on holiday, isn't just a sex worker trying to get in undere the radar etc. I got mine back for my wife in 7 days but we were travelling not long after the application and gave all relevant info plus she has had a few visas for the UK before plus many for other countries we have been to so a pretty strightforward case for them. I suspect first time applications might take a bit longer

Shows the risks of running any sort of web application where you do not control the content in these crazy times of censorship. Posting naked pictures of someone - even worse someone having sex - without their peremission and where they are identifiable though is not on, however I think the punishment should be against the poster not the forum owner. I don't see any mention of the police trying to identify the real culprit. If he had been a foreigner then he would no longer be able to stay in Thailand.

I certainly do not think these people are scum - I know one or two and they are great people. The point is though, these people are breaking the laws of Thailand. If you go to a foreign country you should follow the laws and customs of that country. If they get caught they they must accept the consequences.

You did not make this claim, but many others have and that is they are pouring in money and supporting the Thai economy. In reality they contribute little. Their income is from Thailnad ( so they are to some extent taking and pay no tax), they live just above the poverty line and without degrees or good teaching qualifications they are not exactly top drawer teachers.

Do you believe that such people are an asset to Thailand. I do not think so and if I am right why should Thailand make it easy for them to stay here?

Well Cruncher if you are getting your money from the Thai economy it won't be much unless you are very lucky and if you are spending it here what is the problem. You might not be putting much into the economy but you sure as hel_l won't be taking anything out because as a foreigner you get nothing here that you don't pay for. If you are working in a school for instance teaching to any level of ability then you are putting something back into the system - quite a lot actually comparatively speaking given the appalling pay and standard of many Thai teachers. Notwithstanding that if you are staying here long term you have no excuse not to comply with the rules - whether or not they change on a daily basis without explanation or warning.

It is well to remember Western countries have social welfare systems that simply do not exist here so naturally there should be some care taken as to who enters the country and is entitled to those benefits - a Thai going to live in a Western country gets a whole lot more than a foreginer living here so it follows the rules should be different. Also Thais are entitled to residency after a period of living in a Western country which does not happen to a Westerner. That said I am sure if the Thai government simplified the visa rules and had some sort of consistency it would be a benefit to everyone wanting to stay here and a benefit to the country from funds spent in the local economy (as opposed to the high end foreign run business most 'quality' tourists spend there money in). The fact that you get treated differently on a whim wherever you apply is a nonsense and a discredit to Thailand inviting derision.

I have read the various posts here. I understand that the people accosting you and trying to rip you off may be nothing to do with the VFS but the British Embassy is inviting criticism if it allows it's contractors to bring it into disrepute which is the current case. VFS may or may not be innocent (I am sceptical on that point given our experience) but I believe they have a responsibilty to reduce the risk of people visiting their offices being misrouted by these touts. I am sure there are steps that can be taken to make people aware that they are being accosted by unofficial staff if they really wanted to. Just saying it's not them so they are innocent is not good enough in my book.

Having been here 12 years, now with a family of three kids, I don't think I will be packing it in any time soon. There are many issues here. Security and general anti-foreigner laws and practices are probably the biggest issues for me. Many Thais are charming and many are not. Thais are xenophobic and that is hardly surprising given the society here and slew of laws and practices that discriminate against foreigners - the infection spreads down from the highest levels despite being contradictory to the Thai constitution which demands no discrimination. Strange since there is clear discrimination in law against Thai women and also against foreigners but anyway such is Thailand. One has to come to accept the Asian ways which are self-preservation and care of close family first before considerations for a partner. That seems to me the general way of things whether a Thai-Thai or Thai-Farang relationship - though most farangs have far more to lose from such behaviour given they are on average richer.

Thailand is not paradise but neither is it hel_l. It is not for everyone but if you can learn to live with its deficiencies, sense of insecurity and accept that you will always be second class to the Thais then life can be pleasant. There are plenty of reasons to go and plenty of reasons to stay and I am not so sure anywhere else would be much better - just different issues and problems. This is home to my three children and my wife so my plan is to stay and hope in some small way to make the country a better place in the future - of course I recognise that one day Thailand may not tolerate me here anymore family or not but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.

Prostitution of yourself should be legal. Forced prostitution and kidnapping and detaining against one's will and forced into sex is not the same thing at all and should be punished to the fullest extent. It doesn't matter if these girls were already prostitutes, had been doing it for years or not - once you force someone to do something or con them into believing once thing when another is true you have crossed the line. Personally I think getting into debt to get a job working as a prostitute should be outlawed - it's not so hard to find a customer so in fairly short order a girl who has any looks should soon have the financial freedom to take her life where she wants it to go. Education is essential and should be given at school. Let's improson all the hypocrites and political and religious leaders trying to stop people living their lives the way they want to. Put those people in prison and get back to reality and a little freedom.

A Phuket user here. I have a Sierra Wireless Aircard and a newer C-Motech USB version aircard. Both have same issues used in three different laptops. It is impossible to download any sizeable file without a download managere. Some of the files I need to download are sizeable - upwards of 1 gig. I just started using Download Accellerator Plus on a free trial which shows speeds of between 300Kbs and Zero and wild fluctuations during the current 1 gig download I am doing. I spent all of yesterday restarting the dowload using Firefox when even that gave up the ghost saying it could not read the cached data after about 800Mb had completed. This has been going on for 4 months or more and I am sure CAT are well aware of the problem and do not want to fix it.

The download manager shows the download speed dropping off to zero every several minutes though it is not a consistent cycle.

Someone complained about billing. I also received several bills at once and in the shop was told they had just replaced the billing system software with some new system which they found three times longer to process the entries where the old system was working perfectly well. Now I WONDER why they would want to do that!!!!

Sometimes I think there is no hope for this place and the way business is done.

Anyone know of a decent free download manager better than Download Accellerator?

I recently went to Regent House, the VFS office dealing with applications for a UK visa. My partner has had several visas before so the application was (I hope) straightforward. On arrival at Regent House we were accosted 'Indian Tailor style' outside the doors to the centre (which has many business aside from the VFS office incidentally). We were ushered to the 'Information counter' where were were asked if we wanted to use an agent to assist in making the application. We replied we did not. We were asked if we knew how hard it was to get a visa to the UK and I interrupted saying we already had several previous UK visas along with those to many other countries in the world to which we had travelled, including the US and Australia and that we really did not need any assistance.

The girl looked rather sullen and told us to go in. At the door a rather unpleasant Thai man said I was not allowed entry as I was a foreigner. Well I wasn't a foreigner at the UK Embassy when we made several other applications but still. I went to sit outside and had a kip. Inside my partner was again approached asking if she needed help. I guess once the foreigner is out of the way they can prey on the thai girls simplicity to extract money from them with less foreign resistance. She said she did not. She overheard an agent talking to a group of girls sitting close by who had obviously paid for assistance. They were told to sit and do nothing, everything would be taken care of for them adn they would jump the queue as they were using the office assistance. Being Thai my partner said nothing but noted the conversation. When she was finally called the agent taking the application looked at it with some disinterest until he saw the bank statements and land title deeds used to support the application. I think at this stage he realised that no money was going to be forthcoming from this particular applicant and therefore he'd best get it over and done with asap. She emerged with the application having been submitted.

Now this sticks in my throat. My partner, three (dual nationality UK/Thai kids) and myself want to go visit my UK family. We have everything in place and are adept at filling in the forms yet get subjected to this scam at the VFS office which in my mind represents the UK embassy. I understand why they don;t want foreigners in the office since we are not so shy to speak up when things are wrong nor to uncover scams. Why is this practice allowed to continue - it puts the UK in bad light, misleads the applicants, refusal to allow foreigners to accompany the aplicant is also distasteful. Anyone else had this experience?

It seems to me there is madness in plenty of nationalities judging by the posts in this thread. How can making visas free be anything but a good move tourism wise. If there are issues regarding the Honorary consuls then those should be redressed for sure since they do provide a service to the tourist. However that is a different issue to that of the sense of providing free visas.

For my part I think Thailand is in real trouble, not just from the tourist side of things but economically also. Since tourism represents a greater share of GDP than many other countires, and is important to the country it should be given the appropriate priority. Aside from tourists the country also needs (and sorely neglects) it longer term expatriates - this is a political move since Thais generally perceive long stay foreigners with a less than positive attitude and any move to facilitate them is politically unpopular. The opinion that all foreigners are richer than Thais and therefore should only give and not be given anything is unfortunate as it is as misjudged as it is unproductive.

Personally a complete and thorough rethink on everything to do with immigration and long stay foreigners should be made with as open a mind as possible. A realisation that long stay foreigners provide more support and more stable support to the local economy than transient guest must be made and accommodations made for both types. If you are in difficulty you must examine all solutions rather than concentrate on one. Unfortunately many of those in power here are not transparent, nor do they have the interest of the country at heart since personal interests greatly overshadow such altruistic motivations. It is therefore a little difficult to see quite how any open minded thought process and decisions might be made until the house is truly ablaze when personal interests might at last coincide with those of the country's.

So what is to stop you agreeing to take a 30 year lease on the proposed bit of land and registering the lease at the same time you buy the land. The poroceeds from the lease providing the funds for the purchase of the land to which you as a foreigner have no right thereafter but you can still sell the remaining term on the lease or rent the property out should you fall out with your wifey or girlfriend.

So typical of Thailand. My father had a saying 'Believe nothing that you read, even less of what you hear and little of what you see' - had he lived in this country it would have to be re-written 'Believe the opposite of what you read & hear, and almost nothing of what you see'

There is a lot of froth on this thread but leaving aside the rights and wrongs of the OP, the serious point trying to get out seems to me to be the shakey position of Western residents with Thai wives and kids born in Thailand. This is far less advantageous than in most other countries. Once an expat has children, should he really need to establish his means so that he can be allowed to stay and support them? It is not as though the family is likely to benefit much from the Thai social security system, such as it is. I think some of us are too accepting of insular poliicies that don't meet international norms.

Well said Citizen33. Thailand does not owe you anything nor does it offer anything except what the earth has graced it. Whilst it doesn't owe you anything I do think that if you have a house and family here you should be entitled to expect that the country will not persecute you. If you have a Thai wife and children that you are supporting that should be sufficient to afford you some degree of security here. But it doesn't - that's the fact. Foreigners are not welcome here and are ripped off at most every opportunity but hey at least the Thais are open about it. Look at the Elite Card fiasco. Charge a one time fee plus an 'up to you' maintenance fee which can be anything they like to set, collect all the up front money on promises of this and that which will never be delivered all with the backing of the Thai government. Pocket the cash and then close the scheme down and don't even have the grace to maintain the visa relaxations for those unfortunates believing anything promoted by Thailand - LOS is correct - Land of the Scam -0 I guess to stop those people defrauded coming back here to complain.

I am amazed there are people in the forum who support the xenophobic, racist nature of the society here led in the charge by the people in power. There are many great things about Thailand but those traits are universally disgusting and undefendable.

Have any of you ever seen how farangs can behave in Thailand? Are you all just going to swallow her story? If you have ever been involved in the entertainment industry you know that there is 2 sides to every story. The drunk persons side, and the sober persons side. They will always be 100 % different. My guess is she was wasted. Stole the beer mat to bring home a souvernir. Ran when she was caught red handed.. and the behaved as a total a-hole when the police took her in. A lot of farangs think they are above the law. When are people going to understand that when you travel to another country you need to treat people with respect?

With respect I don't think that is the point. The point is the damage this sort of exposure causes. Of course you have to deal with drunks and if they are uncontrollable then fine them, bang them up for the night but this charade does nothing to help the country which I want to see a better place for my three children - all Thai / English. She may be guilty, maybe not but there is the case of the bigger picture and it's time the Thai police in these tourist areas realised that. If she is in the wrong then get her out don;t make a spectacle for yourselves and leave the country open to ridicule and derision when it is just not necessary to do so. Jeez we are trying to get more people here not less. It's no good arguing whether it was a chicken bone or a fish bone that choked you - get it out or you will die - arguing about will help nothing.

Fair question.

I think I was somewhat impartial, although I did say that I would guess she did in fact get abusive to the police. We actually spent so little time on the whole barmat theft or no theft itself that I am not sure anyone made a speculation as to her guilt or innocence of that.

Our conversation was centered on the police not playing this incident in the best manner, and how this opened Thailand up to the hysteria of the foreign press. Each one of them opined that the police should have kept her overnight for the abuse we figured she might have committed, then slapped her with a fine and either sent her on her way or put her on a plane back to Australia. They pretty much agreed that the police put their own sense of pride above the best interests of the nation.

Exactly - they need to train the police in better handling of the irrational drunks or make Bangla Road and Patong into a different sort of place if they don't want to handle what comes with that territory. There is no sign of either and Thailand is the loser. It is such a shame.

This is ridiculous and it is damaging to Thailand. Really there needs to be some commonsense.

1. Bangla is full of bars, they are open well past the time the law requires them to be shut. The bar owners who want to make a profit, pay the police to let them stay open late and take more money, the police want them open late so they can have their slice of the action - I imagine it is a fairly hefty slice. Along with taking the profit comes a responsibility to accept the <deleted> that coems with it.

2. If you have a bar open till 2, 3 or 4 in the morning expect people to get drunk. People are not rational when drunk, that's the whole reason for getting drunk in the first place, so you can forget the <deleted> life you are left with after being taxed to death, forget the Mrs taking all your dosh in a divorce, forget working 15 hours a day to make a reasonable living for a week or two. If you have security then they have to be trained to handle such problems. Handling of the situation is NOT what is going on here.

3. If you want a tourist industry based on what is Bangla then you have to take what goes with it - which is some tolerance and common sense in handling people who are pissed (who are feeding the bar owners, staff from profits and police in bribes). You can't go locking people up for piddling offences (pardon the pun) and expect no reaction. Some people will be bothered you can have all this crap levelled at your door for what is insignificant and there will be a lot of people wondering if they want to come to Phuket and risk being slapped up for nothing much at all.

4. Whether she knew or not the towel was in her bag or was abusive to the alleged policeman who was presumably in plain clothes, the most that should have happened was to bang her up (in the cell that is) and let her sober up. If she continues in mouthing off in the morning take her to the airport and escort her out of the country. Nothinhg more would be heard about it and who gives a monkey anyway - well she would be pissed off for wasting a holiday and her money and that would be that. Why does everyone defend the police and expect Spanish Inquition type treatment of people who give them a few strong words. It is not necessary, not good for Thailand and not profitable for the police to be allowed to put their own fragile overdeveloped ego's ahead of what is really good for the country. The establishment should start training them how to handle pissheads or else shut the bars down / control the number / push a different image / send the working girls home - whatever you need to dissuade the type of people who come for that reason. Don't take the profits and then moan that people heve no lack of control after 20 bottles of Heineken

5. It is not acceptable to treat foreginers differently from the Thais which is certainly the case and is a byproduct of the corruption endemic in Thailand. Corruption is everywhere, just here it is acceptable (not just here of course), but is not tolerated if exposed in more equitable societies - look at the MP's in the UK for instance. Here the politicians get a pat ont he back, a ticket out of the country if anyone in their family kills someone and then they let the b&*(&^%s back in again with not so much as a hint of embarrassment. And people wonder why the police, tax, immigration, building control office and just about eveyone else is corrupt here - it is a way of life and of course the foreigners can't be anything other than the victims of that (unless you are an Eastern European Mafioso with no respect for life maybe).

6. How a Chief of Police in charge of a tourist area can be so unaware of the effect of dealing so heavy handily with some piffling problems when such more serious crimes like murder, robbery and the like are treated with such distain defeats me. He should have told his minions to forget the woman and go back to work, unless they themselves were drunk of course.

7. I don;t think you can level much blame against the bar owner. Some stupid people have stirred up a beehive - can anyone really expect him to go standing up for them / her when the police are all over the situation. He has to run his business and upsetting the police or telling them what to do is not the best idea! His weekly payoffs are likely enough already.

8. As for running away from a plain clothes policeman, I guess it depends on the circumstances. Wasn't a very clever thing to do if she thought they really were police. Who is to say some Thai guy approaching you who has been drinking in the bar is a policeman? Maybe she was afraid and maybe not - the argument is not important - the outcome of this absurdity is important. The same argument goes for the guy arrested in immigration for upsetting the immigration guy. Why make such a big issue out of these things - it is not going to make things better here. Take a stance, give a punishment and make it sensible not all out of proportion.

8. It strikes me there are a lot of stupid parties here. The girl, her mates, the police involved, the authorities for not having a properly trained police force to handle these areas where there is a massive concentration of bars.

9. The idea that Thai people are wonderful and beyond reproach is misguided. Someone wrote the Thais leave all their stuff out and no-one takes it. Ha! I've had plenty of stuff stolen on multiple occasions and plenty of friends Thai and foreign who have too - I should be more careful - they should not steal it either. They are not such angels, they ARE racist, xenophobic even, sometimes seem stupid, have little common-sense and are corrupt and two faced. In different degrees doesn't every race have some of these faults and others in one measure or another? And where they are less of one fault they are probably more of another - you have to learn to live with whatever the traits are of the society you live in but that doesn't mean you shouldn't point them out or seek for a change for the better - isn't that how societies evolve? They are not all such reprehensible people either, but on balance Thai society and the Thai people have many problems more deep-seated than Western Society yet Western Society has its own, both different and similar problems and still has much to learn from this one. It's a little draining to hear how mornic Thais can be or how we should just 'put up' with everything evil here from one or other parties. There are good and bad in all races, all societies but that does not mean we should just all shut up because we live in a country we were not born in. People are entitled to be treated fairly and not made to pay just because they are a different colour. Children should be protected regardless whether they are Western, Chinese, Indian or Thai or whatever and I think people have a right to speak out if something is perceived as wrong. Sorry I got off track!!

The owner of the bar probably doesn't much care one way or the other. He isn't going to stick his neck out and neither would I. The publicity may be good or may be bad - either way I expect he wished it hadn't happened and just wants to get on making a crust like the rest of us.

It would be useful if people actually read through the posts before writing - it would make it SO much more enjoyable for the rest of us.

Ha

Well it seriously makes me cheesed off that if you want to withdraw money from your account and you are not in the same area as your bank you get charged 25 baht per transaction regardless of amount (limited to 20,000 k per go). I live in Phuket so if I travel to Bangkok or anywhere outside Phuket and want to buy something cash - say a computer and monitor for 100k it costs me 150 baht - and that is using the same ATM as my bank account. IN fact you can use any banks ATM and get the same charge.

So how is it that the Thai bank charges me to withdraw money from their ATM anywhere outside Phuket - how exactly do they justify THAT

Banks are at the bottom rung of the ladder in the same cess pit as the lawyers, accountants, used car salesmen, time share salesmen, Nigerian psudo bankers in the UK who have millions of someone elses money they want you to help them launder who just happened to contact you by mistake having mysteriously come across your email scammers, security check email scammers, politicians far and wide as well as near, expat rip off merchants and boiler room trade scammers. Let them all rot in their own waste.

For information - most banks limit 20k per ATM transaction - some more - ring to get the normal 20k daily limit raised to 200k or less if you want

Transfer more at a time and save fees

Transfer less right now as the baht is ludicrously strong and will collapse with the dollar soon

ATM's only dole out 20 notes at a time

I had a wrong amount paid from an ATM - contact the bank right away and you should get it rectified but takes about a month - I did

Avoid going to the bank like the plague but if you must go and don;t have time to waste go early in the morning and avoid end of the month and beginning of the month - best to use a little out of the way branch maybe on a university campus or something - staff are happy to see an unusual farang face and have not yet been hardened by the abuse the major bank staff get from farangs for their aloofness and gross inefficiency

Keep your ATM as far away from your girlfriend as humanly possible and your passport in the safe - they are great at forging signatures and just a passport copy and signature is enough to withdraw your money without you knowing

Never lend anyone any money especially another expat and even more especially a thai - you'll almost never see it back

Buy a house, give it to your girlfriend and take a 30 + 30 lease - you won't need it when your dead and she will get it anyway one way or the other - why not keep it simple. Do that now - transfer fees really low. Keep the lease amount low and prepay the 60 years - it makes the tax charged to the g/f less. When you dump the g/f who cares you still have the lease. Better still get her to sign a power of attorney to resell teh property as soon as you buy it - you never know it might come in handy.

Never use a foreign lawyer - they are no better than a Thai lawyer, charge more, are more dishonest and do you think they can read the thai contracts?

Always be careful zipping up - he's the only real friend you have over here!

Thai hotels are offering better deals than before and Khao Lak certainly gives the Thai Resident 2,199 a night rooms as I was only there last week (it came down just after Songkran). However better deals are being given everywhere around the world as hotels are being hurt as people reign in their spending after the rape of the world by the US financial system gleefully and greedily replicated in Europe. SO now no one has much money except black market money, no one is looking to buy cars, overpriced property - especially here where the best you can get is a 30 year lease on poor terms and no real security of tenure especially if you have a lousy lawyer - and there are plenty of them.

So what does Thailand want? Another poster had it right - high end free spending quality tourists who stay in fancy resorts and put next to nothing in the local economies - their money is spent in the high end resorts because they basically trap them in there. Who is going to spend a hand full of cash on taxis to get to an alternative restaurant which are usually some good distance away from these high end resorts. Believe me the prices are astronomical for food.

What does Thailand not want? Single sex interested tourists, backpackers who haven't got a %^& to ^&*# in, long stay tourists, actually if possible just get the spending money from everyone before they leave their home country and don't let them travel would be the optimum solution. However the world is not a Thai utopia!

People get hung up on the Thais hurting themselves, in an apparently stupid show of intellect. The fact is those in a position to generate revenue for the local economy do'nt give a rats ass about their countrymen or much else as long as they have a good income (from various means!!!!) and secure pension. The lack of thought maybe because of sheer stupidity but I think it is more likely because of sheer ambivalence. Introducing extra charges by the banks (I don't care how many times you withdraw at once but carrying loads of cash on your person these days is lunacy and just asking for trouble), double pricing, overcharging by tuk-tuks (yes you guessed I live in Phuket), overcharging at golf courses (120 quid a round is plain stupid if you want some customers), overcharging at just about every place you go if you are a foreigner, a biased police force if any trouble befalls you and the 'Farang is always wrong and fair game to be ripped off' attitude by nearly every Thia you meet, and then make visas and rules about as complicated and open to corrupt interpretation as possible, does not make for the best impression. People are not stupid, they see these things - they notice and go back and tell their friends who end up picking a different destination (about the same as Spain 30 years ago and look where that attitude got THEM - whatever happened to Benidorm?).

Thailand's neighbours are doing a good job of improving their image, making visas more friendly, improving infrastructure and generally trying to be more foreigner friendly because they know otherwise they will lose their business. Thailand is doing the opposite - WHY?

The MOST beneficial person to have here is someone who lives here permanently (yes you need to make sure they are not taking jobs away and so on in a sensible fashion). These are the people who go to the local shops, often help out in the community and generally put money into the Thai economy - they are generally a benefit - they buy cars, support local restaurants and bars and local shops and businesses for day to day living items and building homes. These are BY FAR the most beneficial foreigners to Thailand and they are treated abysmally.

The NEXT most beneficial person to have is the mid range tourist - they stay in mid range hotels, travel around, might be with children and also spend in the local restaurants and so on - again putting money into the economy. I don't see so many offers directed at these tourists.

The NEXT is the backpacker - whilst not having much to spend he is your future tourist probably and travels around putting his small amounts of money into the local economies buying food and cheap accommodation - not chucking his money at the high class and often foreign controlled hotels.

Last on the list is the Sex Tourist - well maybe not last since at least he supplements the north eastern family incomes. The High Spenders come last in my book benefitting primarily the high end hotels and fancy shops with little trickle down benefit to the basic economy.

When Thailand finally gets it's kick up the backside which is rapidly on it's way, perhaps some rationality (yes a strange word here I know) might enlighten the minds of those affected to look at which side of the slice their bread is buttered and start treating their customers with some respect. Perhaps this hardship will bring some measure of pruning to the stupid visa rules (from Thailand's perspective AND that of the visitor or long stayer), some reduction in the racist nature of the society - for their nationalistic ways are racist - some simplification in business & property acquisition, and a fairer taxation regime that taxes foreign and Thai businesses on a similar footing in fact as well as in law.

I somehow don;t think a few hotel discounts are going to be the saviour of the tourist industry here. It is in for a very bleak time despite all the nonsense you here from the industry and it will need a SEA change in attitude from the top down to get things back on track. When Thailand stops being so egocentric and realise their weaknesses of which there are many, maybe some benefits may arrive

On the other hand don't hold your breath!!

Penguin says:

I think you should really what Taksin has done for the poor people and helped kid's education, he helped this country with his money 76 billion baht.. done more any gorvernment in the history that's why they love them and this gorvernment cut all thise budgets just because of they hate Taksin to reduced their benifits down because unneccessary to have, so made them angry and turned out to take over them with nasty ways.

Just resign, this PM has no brain.. he is a puphet sting by the gay military leader who just lucky to be a top advisor that has ruined Thai democracy over the dacades.

Thaksin did do a lot for the poor people - he gave them money to buy their votes in the form of direct vote buying, giving them loans they could never pay back - most of which was not used to build business but to buy luxuries and pleasure - Thaksin planned to wipe the loans clear - effectively making them gifts. Unfortunately Penguin he did not use his own money - he used the people's money coming from taxes etc. NOT his money. He did improve education for the poor and improve healthcare - he did a lot of good things but it is not helpful to blind yourself from the bad things he did. You cannot present yourself for democracy when you pay the electorate - mostly ill educated and rather short minded - to get elected using someone elses money.

Abhisit is proving to be a far more competant and trustworthy leader than the last three prime ministers. He isn't perfect and needs support from the people to try to rescue Thailand which is rapidly going down the drain which is very sad for all of the people living here. No-one wants that be they red shirts, yellow shirts or regular people nor the expat community.

Thailand needs time to settle rest and recouperate and it will play out badly if the protestors on both sides carry on this idiocy. They are both in the wrong for using violence. When Thailand ceases to be a country run by corruption, violence and xenophobia, maybe some progress will be made. Oh for some people of principle and honour in government - that applies worldwide these days - it wasn't always that way!