TheGhostWithin

Surely they have to do something soon.

Inevitably it will hit the tourist areas with people who come here for a holiday and the ex-pat living off his pensions, finding their currency is no longer enough due to a 10 -25% loss in value in the last 6 months. Yes most expatswill stay and touristswill still come to Thailand but less Baht means less goods being bought.

This is made worse by inflation here which has been quite noticeable over the past year.

Will not hold my breath though, the powers that be in the Thai government will continue to do the same as always, talk but no action.

I second this. As a regular visitor to the Kingdom (my girlfriend resides permanently with me here but we go home to visit her family from time to time, and it gives me a break from work), we do not travel on a fixed schedule - we are not business travelers but do spend a lot, we stay in good places and spend what we work hard for at home. I would imagine we are not the only ones with this kind of approach to visits to Thailand.

We are currently sitting at home each day, watching the exchange rate waiting for it to straighten up before we return. the NZ Dollar (where we are from) has been one of the top performers in the world the past year) has also been losing ground against the baht, and I have noticed travel agents here have stopped advertising Thailand and started advertising Malaysia (again) and also now Vietnam and South America.

Inflation will increase even more when the tourists stop - as you know in Thailand when purchase numbers decrease, Thai business ramps up its price to cover the shortfall. More tough times for the Thai economy? Sadly, me thinks so. May be a while before Teerak brings "the Farang" home to say hello to paw me.. We are considering a trip to Nepal this year to do some trekking instead.

the offer of 20 baht was made in a private conversation between me and my girl friend in the car away from the family.

If she has the typical Thai mindset, and has not had exposure to western philosophies, you need to understand a few things (you may know this already but may not have clicked).

When you talked to her and offered her 20 baht, away from the flapping ears of the family, you may have thought it was a few words said in jest between the two of you. The reality is, you were speaking in jest about her family to her, to her mother, and her father, as well as to the village all at once (she will repeat everything you say about the family, even if you ask her not to) - you were putting a price on the family.

Sin sot is about bragging rights in many cases, about who can get the most presented at the ceremony, who can have the newest cars, who can have the biggest houses. In my case, the sin sot is being asked because another girl in the village got 800,000 - the mother now wants to beat that with 1 million because of their standing in the community.

I argue that because I bought her to my country, sponsored her visas, got her a job here which pays well and will give her a future, cover all costs in the household and because she saves almost her entire salary in her own accounts (we have a shared account we use for a dinner a few times a week when I am off work) that this should be taken into consideration -- but the family see this as the natural duty of a man in Thailand, ignorant of the fact that women have equal rights, responsibilities and (arguably) opportunities in the western world.

'Street food' is just as much of a gamble as restaurant food.

There are good ones and bad ones.

I have been to several (in both categories) where the chef/cook didn't really care what he threw on the plate as long as it 'loosely resembled' what I had ordered, in some cases just 'crap-on a plate'

At least in a half decent restaurant (one thats worth its salt) you can send the food back

And - I don't even want to start on the hygiene debate!

Dare I ask, when you say "I have been to".. that you ate at these places?

There are ways that people who were once skinny, and have become fat porkers such as myself have of picking out "good" street food - it is not 100% on the nail but pretty close. I have never become sick, and never been dissapointed by street foodm, with the exception to my Pad Thai in my favourite market in Lat Krabang, which some genius decided to throw Chilli in my Pad Thai (dissapointed I was, because I never eat Pad Thai because of the caolorie count)..

There is a reason that in Thailand, some stalls have more customers than they can possibly ever serve quickly, and other stalls are as baron of customers as one could imagine..

Is it a coincidence or crime against farang increased tenfold after russians come here?

You got somebody to kill? Call 1-800-RUSMAFIA to kill while they are in Thailand, (and other countries Russian Mafia has operatives).

I did not know the man personally, but as an American of some stature I would speculate to say that his contact with the Russian Mafia may have been minimal.

Yes, crime does seem to have increased against people with white skin color since the increase, but I have seen no statistics to back this up. Any statistics would be quickly challenged among those that understand how the Thai policing system works - most here are fairly familiar with the basic workings.

Thais coincidentally have trouble telling us apart from the Russians, I was last time asked if I was sent by someone with a Russian name, when I went into one of the clubs. I told them I wasn't and that I was there to observe and I was given free beers anyhow. Strange world that Pattaya place, but a good way to get away from the seriousness of the big smoke down the road in Bangkok.

I would say this death which appears to be on the verge of being considered a suicide through self inflicted wounds whilst under the influence of narcotics may have a little more attention than the average death placed on it by the US Embassy - it is famous for looking after its' figures of importance and rightly so IMO -many embassies do not do enough for their nationals overseas anymore.

How on earth do they equate 1,253 people to be representative of over 60 million Thais?

Did you think national surveys typically ask every single person in a country a question to get their results?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Heya Joe, hope all is well. I think he was commenting that the survey pool in comparison to the total population appeared a little low to produce an accurate result if the survey asked more serious and important questions. It was also noted that the test pool source (e.g. was it tested on grounds at a university or out in the public or in government house) was not quoted, so it cannot be gauged how much of an "average" test pool was established to source results from.

No telling who, what or where the was survey is based on the info given. Without knowing what and how questions were asked the end results are a useless post that does not give a reasonable amount of valid information to make any assumption or analysis. (unless of course you are one of the TV CSI specialists)

I enjoy reading all posts on here, and contributing when I feel I can contribute something valuable, which has not already been said. I make a point not to say cliche things such as "TV CSI specialists", or tell people to go back home to their countries if they are unhappy with the current state of Thailand as I have noted you telling other members over the last few days. It appears you object to anyone having an opinion which disagrees with your own - might I suggest that contributing your own ideas without critisizing others actually makes the DEBATE a little more interesting and intelectually challenging?

I bet they did not survey any Farangs ... anyone ... anyone... ?

May I suggest that approximately 66.6% of surveyed persons may have been Farang (men and women, who both enjoy watching skimpy dancing and skimpy acts, and have even been known to partake in it) if they knew what was good for them.

A great example of an attempt by higher powers to manipulate the media to attempt to purvey something differently than it actually is by turning the 2 in 3 approval of such actions into a 1 in 3 rejection, silencing the majority. Hang on a minute.. I have seen this strategy utilised somewhere else within the Kingdom before..

what your country does, doesn't matter. I am happy for Thai, I wish my country did the same instead, most Canadians couldn't dream of jobs for Canadians first or affording a home in the real estate stock market . Thailand would be worse off for letting every greedy farang do what they pleaset

Would they? Would there be huge voids between top earners and the bottom of the ladder people? There is lots of bragging about a burgeoning middle class in Thai Land, but there is little evidence of this. You will need to go outside of your Bangkok condo, and perhaps into the streets of Isaan, the south (further than Samui or Phuket) or south of Chiang Mai to see this. Those shiny new cars you see, are all on finance, with loans to borrowers far exceeding safe lending practices on their incomes. It is a systemic credit bubble which may one day cause the same issue China is now facing with bad creditors - the reason its' sharemarket is the worst performing in the whole of the APAC this year. Residential home price inflation in Thailand is among the highest in Asia, with perhaps only Beijing and Shanghai to compare it against. Every time I go back prices have gone up by 15-20%. This is major inflation in a very large chunk of Thai real estate values (not the number of houses, but the cumulative monetary value of all housing combined).

Growth of local markets through importation of labor, both skilled and unskilled (depending on the demands of the importer) can and does have positive affects on any country, unless those being imported fail to find work or generate sufficient revenue from their own businesses to exist without subsidization from the government. If the Russian tour companies were not here, if the Russian owned hotels were not here, the Russians probably would not be there either. Like them or not, they are among the highest arrival numbers in the Kingdom now and they are spending. Fighting against them does not seem to be working.

Perhaps it is time that Thailand started trying to understand their guests rather than fight against them, and work with those Russians coming. Ensuring Thai businesses were set up in Russia would ensure growth for Thai Land outside of its' own borders, which may last a lot longer than when the sun sets on its' own tourism market. Businesses in Russia partially owned by Thais catering to the importation of Russian forestry, minerals or other natural resources at fair market or discounted rates would see Thailand turn from a raw products exporter to a refined products exporter, which is what they have been trying to do for years. Would it not be more beneficial for Ms. Shinawatra to have a chat with Mr. Putin and see what "treaties" can be arranged? This would also strengthen Thailand's friendships outside of Asia and the United States, and give them more bargaining power against DPRC.

Well then please show me any other nationality within the paradise of Phuket who flaunts as much as russian do with their signage that can be understood by only themselves.... And flaunt that they do business in Thailand with this signage, who flaunts that they are stealing business from the Thais.

Wish they were a bit mote discreet about it.....

Where I travel (in Thailand), there is signage all over the place, for which many Thais do not understand, They speak a language which many local Thais do not understand. There is no English writing for me, no tour desks, no Russians. There are bombs and beheadings.. my favorite noodle shop was bombed a year ago, 3 months after I was there and ate. There is nothing discrete about what that group of people do either.

The difference is, the Government are approaching that issue diplomatically, whereas they are approaching the Russian view with absolute selective attacks on a single racial group, which deserved or not (considering how much crime some on here allege Russians are responsible for) amounts to discrimination and racism. There are laws in many countries against such "racial profiling". Not here, obviously no intention to implement new ones either. The reason this group of people are discriminated against, as we westerners were before the Russians came, and the Chinese underclass were before us (a very long time ago, I know) is because we are not Thai nationals and therefore have less knowledge and power to pursue wrongdoings and discrimination. It is a common pattern throughout Thai history.

Thailand is already successful it doesn't need any help from Johnny Foreigner. It you don't like open racism you can leave and go to Europe, North America or the finest Australia where they are just as racist but less open about it, oh hang on yes they are open about it too. Hmm America loves the Mexicans and invites them over their borders to work freely openly and honestly don't they? Uk rushing through retrospective laws to stop mass immigration because they too love people coming and taking locals jobs! and Australia well where do you start with Australia. Where is this utopia you are from, Africa? Never a racist soul to be found in Africa is there? Middle east and their open free societies.

The open targeting AND reporting of ONLY Russians in relation to work permits in Phuket is racist - even if Russians are the main offenders, the authorities are making it very clear they do not like Russians and do not want them there. What about all the Kiwis, Aussies and Brits all over the country working without permits? I say this because I only ever read about Russians getting their cracks down here, which appears a little one eyed.

I really wish someone in this country (who had the authority to have a voice) stood up to the open racism and xenophobia communicated and demonstrated by the establishment.

When you come to my country, my dearest Thai friends, you can work beside me, you can work above me, or you can work below me - based on your own merits, not your skin color, nor your connections or financial position. How about the same fair deal in your homeland? Do you not love your country enough to share it with those that want to help make it a big success?

But is ok you just moan about a few Russians without passports working illegally and then have the cheek to pull the race card...

Thank you for your "Grumpy old man" speech, telling me "if you don't like it you can leave". If you read my posts, I do not reside in Thailand. I do not reside in Thailand because it cannot provide me with the opportunity to succeed as I do in my home country, nor can it provide the salary that my Thai Girlfriend gets here working in a respectable workplace. She used to work at Suvarnabhumi.

Thailand is already successful? That would depend on what you take into account when reviewing its' successes. Yes, it is a major exporter of goods, a major manufacturer of motor vehicles, but as China was 15 years ago, only because of low wages and weak labor laws. This is changing as inflation rises, wages increase and Thais slowly lose their "Thainess" through westernization.

My old boss was from the countryside in India, I learnt to deal with my own racism, appreciate and understand someones skills before judging them. The "Utopia" I am from is New Zealand (again, if you wanted to know you could have just looked at my profile before ripping off the fastest reply possible). There are racists here, both white AND brown. But the laws here protect everyone, not only white, not only brown, not only black.

Please, prior to accusing me of "pulling" the race card, please show me a similar article in the past 2 months of a person(s) of any other nationality within the paradise of Phuket having issues with deportation due to not having the correct work visa on this forum? My point is that the action should be broad, and not one sided against Russian people.

Read, review, research, understand, comprehend. PLEASE!

Nothing to do with race but nationality.

The open targeting AND reporting of ONLY Russians in relation to work permits in Phuket is racist - even if Russians are the main offenders, the authorities are making it very clear they do not like Russians and do not want them there. What about all the Kiwis, Aussies and Brits all over the country working without permits? I say this because I only ever read about Russians getting their cracks down here, which appears a little one eyed.

I really wish someone in this country (who had the authority to have a voice) stood up to the open racism and xenophobia communicated and demonstrated by the establishment.

When you come to my country, my dearest Thai friends, you can work beside me, you can work above me, or you can work below me - based on your own merits, not your skin color, nor your connections or financial position. How about the same fair deal in your homeland? Do you not love your country enough to share it with those that want to help make it a big success?

Thais simply don't like the Russians.

Steven,

On face value, I would tend to agree with you. Unfortunately, my prior experience urges me to disagree in this case. But 5 years or so ago, before the Russian influx, before the Chinese wave, when it was just the Europeans, Americans, and a few Ozzies and Kiwis (and those Malaysian fellows down south happily having a quiet brew in Songai Kolok out of the view of Mr Mathir Mohammed) the same people were shaking down any man with a white face in the English Schools, for exactly the same reason.

Now that many of the English speaking white faces have disappeared, they have started picking on the Ruskies to try to send them back to Mokba (Moscow).

It really does seem, that certain sectors of the Thai society seem to be horrified that anyone that is not Thai, should be allowed to enjoy a high standard of living in Thailand, with funds earnt within the Kingdom.

What a surprise. Mouthing platitudes earns you a meaningless award, worth slightly more than an honorary degree from an obscure kiwi university that appears to know SFA about Thai politics.

OzMick,

I seem to be a bit behind the ball here.. she actually went to University in my home country, New Zealand?

Every Thai person I know in New Zealand (I live in Wellington but lived in Auckland all my life until a few years ago) here has an extreme dislike for her, and for the movement which they see is destroying their country. Many are partially westernized and see her not as woman of the year, but a picture of disappointment and feel anger towards her because the way she behaves devalues the traditional Thai woman, and is attempting to instill western attitudes on a culture which is beautiful without it.

The title, pictures and article explaining that 10 people were arested insinuates that only 10 people were arrested dealing and using drugs in Pattaya. I therefore declare that although Pattaya previously had a very minor drug problem, it is now drug free!

Disclaimer: I was channeling Chalerm during this posting. Facts and figures may be falsified, skewed or may even be non-existant. Images may not be those of the actual crime. 3 crates of Leo beer were consumed during the oversight of this operation. Further operations may be cancelled at short notice without explaination.

Is there no limit to this stupidity? the reason the link hasn't been used is because there is nothing to link - the Cambodian metre gauge tracks have been out of use for years, and while there are plans to refurbish the line AFAIK it is far from complete.

Mick, I am in close contact with the Cambodian side. They have already comissioned the Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville link, which gives them access from the inland capital to the coast. It is a slow beginning but they seem to be on the right path.

I will be going over to take a look at Christmas, and hope to meet with some of the Aussies and Cambodians in the picture there.

Thailand has a very closed railway, not willing to let foreigners in. It is basically structured as a closed system with an over inflated pension system.

Thailand will go for this because it will be a short term gain for the Kingdom, but with Cambodia open to working alongside and with foreign countries and being open to suggestions on making the system efficient and viable, it is unlikely the Thai gains would continue.

I read a lot of negativity about Cambodia, some of it may even be true... but they are on track to do more with less in comparison to the royal Thai Railway.

This must be one of those quality tourists from the great country which the current administration is attempting to substitute the shortage of big spending western european tourists to replenish the coffers of a system which due to the rampant corruption and excessive greed means the system must continue to grow at a rapid pace or face inevitable collapse.

But as this story demonstrates, even people that dont have white or black or brown faces commit crime. It isn't just a western or African desease.

do like your posts and views, but have to disagree with you here.

Chinese spend less? I'll have to disagree on that. It's quite the norm for Chinese tourists from Beijing and Shanghai shop till they drop. The average Singaporean, Taiwanese or Hongkonger spends more in a day what the average Western backpacker spends in a month.

ChanJoonYee,

Singaporeans, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers are not Chinese - they are their own countrymen in their own right, just to clarify things. Many Singaporeans and Taiwanese, would be heavily offended if you called them Chinese,

I'm afraid that you are terribly wrong there . . . don't forget that the term 'Chinese' refers to ethnicity as well and that's something no Malaysian Chinese, Singaporean Chinese, Thai Chinese, Indonesian Chinese (note the term 'Chinese' behind the nationality) would cast aside. Taiwanese consider themselves the true Chinese . . .

Why is there anything wrong with that . . . it is their identity . . . nationality is a relatively new phenomenon in this region and the Chinese diaspora is widespread . . . but they maintain their ethnicroots

Thank you for responding Sing_Sling,

Yes, you are very right - when I traveled to Malaysia, one of the first things which shocked me was the "unity" message purveyed by the government, but open segregation of living and working areas (though not imposed by law, rather social pressures) whereby Chinese basically operated in their own areas. I love the atmosphere Chinese created in Penang, though it may not be the same anymore. But, times seem to be changing, I often see reports of Singaporeans complaining of foreigners taking their jobs, which I hear is gaining traction within the Golden city. I read reports of Hong Kongers complaining about Mainlanders coming into Hong Kong to give birth, taking beds from locals and putting unnecessary pressure on the system. I have heard of the two sides of Taiwan, battling over if China should have more influence and Taiwan should accept its' role within the Peoples Republic, or if it should go the independent route as pushed by the Americans. These three examples lead me to believe that although ethnic origins, languages and physical characteristics, this is where being a Chinese immigrant ends - they do not associate any loyalty to the Mainland (with exceptions to some aforementioned Taiwanese). They associate themselves as Singaporean, Hong Kongers, and Taiwanese, and as reliance to this article, Thai. And Chinese are hard workers, smart, and often work as a family unit - like the Jews of similar stereotypical work approach, they over time become wealthier than those around them; often outclassing the locals. As we say here, they would be "Chinese when the situation suits them" and creates advantage, but otherwise they would prefer to be known as "Thai, Singaporean, Hong Kongers, or Malaysian" in the opinions of my personal friends. Perhaps we associate with different circles, which is okay too

We have seen it in my home country, too. They don't even employ New Zealanders in their businesses here. Only Chinese.

are there the xenophobia comes from. pesky foreigners steal my job nonsense.

ZhouZhou, the cases I was attempting to communicate were in which new immigrants of which English is not their first language specifically hire persons of their own ethnicity - often so that they can take advantage of them. My partner was employed by such a lovely Thai man, who owns a local restaurant. When he short changed her pay, then denied the hours she had been working, he got a rude shock when I presented proof that she was there. He got an even ruder shock when the tax department turned up to audit his books for other staff who were on tourist and student visas (not work visas and not entitled to work in the way they were). It isn't about foreigners taking local jobs, It is about not giving locals fair and equal opportunity to get the same job, as foreigners complain when they are not given the same treatment here. The likes of which us "Farang" can dream of until the cows come home in Thailand. Sorry for any offense caused.

Chinese spend less? I'll have to disagree on that. It's quite the norm for Chinese tourists from Beijing and Shanghai shop till they drop. The average Singaporean, Taiwanese or Hongkonger spends more in a day what the average Western backpacker spends in a month.

ChanJoonYee,

Singaporeans, Taiwanese and Hong Kongers are not Chinese - they are their own countrymen in their own right, just to clarify things. Many Singaporeans and Taiwanese, would be heavily offended if you called them Chinese, and the Hong Kongers would be insulted if you called them "mainlanders". Mainland Chinese have very distinct characteristics about them in comparison to the groups you mentioned above. If we want to compare apples with apples, you should be comparing the wealthiest westerners with the wealthiest Chinese - if you take a look at the rich list on Bloomberg, The western faces and names heavily outnumber the Chinese. Comparing the richest Chinese with backpackers is a very skewed test pool. This is not a new strategy for China, though..

One of the unique things about Chinese tourists is that they tend to travel in tour groups, arranged in China. They are picked up at the Airport by their own countrymen (tour guides, the same thing they have been arresting the Russians for in Phuket) and are escorted to their hotels. They dine at Chinese owned businesses, operated by Thais who get a pittance of the profit for salaries. They stay at Chinese Hotels, staffed by Thais who receive a pittance of the profit in salaries. They travel around nearly all day on buses owned by Chinese and staffed by Thais who receive a pittance of the profit in salaries for their services. The remainder of the money left, is sent straight back to China. I can assure you, they are as good at avoiding taxes as any other, and that very little of the money spent by the Chinese ever sees Thai hands.

They may spend IN Thailand, but the profits LEAVE Thailand often before the tourists do. This is the ultimate exploitation of creating an "economy within an economy", ensuring local operators are "starved out". We have seen it in my home country, too. They don't even employ New Zealanders in their businesses here. Only Chinese.

Thank you for your time CMBE, I have managed to find tuition now from a top Khaen player, who is helping me out via skype. I will also look to do more on my next trip to Isaan, and maybe find some classes at the university or something in which I can take part in.

They do seem to be conflicting ambitions. Get the numbers up, keep the numbers down.

Comparisons with Europe are simply irrelevant. The allure of Thailand is its difference to Western culture.

As I keep saying to people, good weather + poverty + pretty girls = a vibrant prostitution industry. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as ALL the participants are willing and no one is being exploited. What I also say to people is that you can very easily avoid that side of Thailand and see a staggeringly beautiful place with genuinely nice people, great food and an intriguing culture and history. I recommended a flash hotel at Krabi to some friends who spent a week there with their kids. Hired long tail boats, went island hopping, wandering around and eating at nice little places at Ao Nang. They never saw a hooker or were scammed by anyone. They had a fantastic time and will speak highly of Thailand.

It's a great country.

SFBandung,

Great to read your post. I have been pondering on the announcement I wondered if as a result of decreased competitiveness within the ASEAN region, and the new joint Visa, Thailand is now experiencing a case of return visitors coming back, feeling disappointed with the higher prices (due to product inflation as a result of higher wages and other factors), and visiting other countries which are what some would coin "better priced" such as Laos, Cambodia, and Malaysia. I have also been getting quite a high volume of advertising for tourism in Burma the past few months, which is new. I wonder if as a result of the falling average days stay, but increased spending (due to higher prices being paid by both Thais and tourists over the past few years) when they do stay, Yingluck has attempted to turn figures which she has previewed into more of a positive thing, than having it appear a terrible loss. A decrease in tourist numbers, but those with more money to spend noticing the increases less, therefore more likely to stay than those more careful with their money. I wonder if this is an attempt to turn a confirmed negative into a potential positive at a time of potential political upheaval.

reading the post i think its safe to summarize it that the young, high educated, big money spending back packing white people at TV are not target of that tourist campaign even if their gf come from families with good - very good backgrounds.

Just to respond to your consistent personal attacks on me, which you attempt to viel as "cheap as a Shinawatra on the run" with teflon, my daily budget in Thailand is 10,000 THB per day. I usually stay for 30-40 days at a time, and take at least two trips per year. I make a point of buying from the Mom and Pop shops, and staying at there hotels too, because you are usually appreciated more than buying from 7 or staying at the Mariott..

I am spending approx. 300,000-400,000 per year in the Kingdom as a non-resident - I am not a back packer. But then again, I don't follow flags held by people of my own country, speaking my own language, ignorantly trapsing around like I own the place. I do speak Thai, and am learning to write in Thai. I visit the south, where there are no beer bars or back packer guest houses. I do this because I want to make a difference and learn about a culture which is fading away with every passing day.

You think high end tourists want to go to Nana? Please don't apply for a job with TAT.

Not at all friend, but I was using the example of a justification of my view of where the "white" tourism of Thailand is heading vs. the "Yellow" face of tourism.

I go so that I can arrange meetings with my friend, we like to surprise her.. she does not get to know many Farang in a "normal" friendship type relationship

And no, I cannot work for TAT, only as an English Teacher, where I would be hounded and harassed by immigration as much as they had the energy to do so. I am only a lowly Rail Network Controller in my home country, eligible for a special skills green card in the USA, eligible to work in Canada, , Australia, Africa and Europe too. But Thailand will not have me, because I do not have a degree in engineering to undertake the training in the job I am qualified in and performing daily. But that is another matter..