Rumcabal

Yes, you might dislike the changes, but are you sure that the world and Thailand actually need the Pattaya of old, with it's incredibly notorious reputation as one of the most sleazy cities on earth and also one in which paedophiles operate with impunity and child trafficking still abounds?. but the world??

I believe that the needs of Thailand and the residents of Pattaya far outweigh the needs and desires of ageing farangs still hearkening back to the 'bad old days'.

Bravo. Great Post. What exactly is wrong with Thailand and Pattaya moving forward, developing like the rest of the world? The jaded old sexpats may hark back to 'the good old days' but them good old day is not what the majority of Thais want. New motorways, new developments, new business is welcomed warmly in Western countries - why begrudge Thai's the same amenities? Because its not what YOU want - well thats just too bad......

I remember it well as the little fishing village of the 70s and also as the sleazy single-male destination of the 80s.

The world needs more interesting places like that, not less.

I certainly dont need sleaze, in fact I dont participate in it at all. I just think it's far more entertaining to walk down a street with a bit of raw life

Really?? Been coming to 'interesting' and 'raw' Pattaya for over 30 years but not sleezing at all?? Please.........

I'm not sure which is more amazing, the ridiculous report (which I didn't bother to finish reading) or the righteous indignation generated on ThaiVisa from all the usual holier-than-thou pontificators.

1). Self-important whackos visit sleazy bars, get drunk and lippy. Heated words are exchanged of the 'who do you think you are," "do you know who I am," variety.

2). Drunken people act badly, get belligerent and long-suffering sleazy bar staff whack the whackos.

3). i) ThaiVisa regulars become indignant at this surprising turn of events.

ii) ThaiVisa regulars reach the shocking conclusion that bar owners and police are not the saints we all thought they were.

iii) Armchair Rambos tell us all how really brave drunken whackos should only beat one another silly on a one-to-one basis. If more than one Thai pummels the same obnoxious, drunken lout in a sleazy bar, the matter should be report to the UN.

Come on people. If a few local shop keepers and some visiting sex tourists get plastered in a whore-house cum bar and then get into a dust-up with the muscle hired by the bar as bouncers, this doesn't qualify as a news event. The gasps of moral outrage emanating from the ThaiVisa bearers of the torch of cultural integrity is really old and really tired.

Pattaya is Pattaya. Love it or Loathe it, but get over it. These bars wouldn't exist in their unfettered glory if laws weren't being bent. The people visiting them didn't confuse them with a World Heritage Site.

Best response. Love the last line. World Heritage Site,

The police actually stop people here in Chiang Mai for not wearing helmets? I've yet to see that. 90% of folks on bikes here dont seem to wear helmets and drive past those police checkpoints without any issues. What is it one day per month that the police decide to enforce the helmet rule or something?

Which part of Thailand are you in? Any examples?

I'm in Chiang Mai.

Overall, I see a lot more long faces around than I would have hoped... Waiters / waitresses, shop girls, people on the street. Some people are pleasant but they are definitely in the minority. Many are indifferent at best and some are downright hostile in their attitude. I take it many are sick of foreign tourists... Not too hospitable. The difference between tourist areas and more local thai areas appears to be negligible...

Having moved to Chiang Mai from Pattaya about a month ago I find myself agreeing with this statement 100%. I've also spent time in Ubon - there I'd rate as the friendliest place I've been in Thailand. Indifferent would be the word I'd use to describe Chiang Mai residents I've dealt with. Not unfriendly but not warm either. Very businesslike. I get a few smiles here and there but they are in a small minority. I am still enjoying it here though, but I guess before I moved here I just had higher expectations, thats all.

Free enterprise...in America ? nope, Thailand is definately better. In Thailand you dont need insurance to start up a company or retail store, if the customer is stupid enough to fall down in your store, than the judge knows he's uncoordinated and probably falls anywhere... Nope not in the US, everything is regulated for this and that and you have to follow so and so code in order to abide by revision something in order to comply to sell a burger. In thailand you get a bbq grill go down to lotus and invest in your nights business of selling charbroiled chicken, and you are in business as soon as you find a good street corner - free enterprise? America is just an illusion.

Agree 100% with this assessment. Not just in the States but throughout the west in general. Starting up a company is an increasingly more and more expensive endeavor. I once worked for a small startup in Massachusetts. There were only 3 of us but the first year cost for our corporate attorney's to 'structure' the company (I dont even know what that means) was $200,000. Red tape and regulation is strangling legitimate business in the west. Everyone credits low labor costs as the primary reason companies relocate to the East but I'm willing to bet the regulatory environment is just as important a factor in the decision making.

I was in the food court of a Tesco Lotus getting a glass of coke. Asked for no ice. "That will be 10bt extra because you want more coke."

Yeah Mike's up here in CM have a sign over their soft drink machine - 'No Ice, No Problem, 10 baht extra'

http://www.butterisbetterbakery.com/

Many Thanks - I'll check them out tomorrow. A new years treat, so to speak

If I ever go that way by car, I will for sure, but luckily, for now, there is Butter is Better's rhubarb pie right in town. It is truly AMAZING!

They also have rhubarb with strawberry, but the plain rhubarb is the better of the two IMHO.

Hmmm I love rhubarb pie - where is "Butter is Better" located?

I didn't start out with the idea of living with 6 bar-girls.

I had one. I complained to her that the house she wanted and we moved into was too expensive. It had three bedrooms and there were only two of us. The next week one arrived. The week after that two. And then two more. They shared the rent. They were nice women. Clean, well mannered and took care of the house. Four of them worked at the same club. They wore different color outfits every day. I could tell what day it was by looking at the laundry drying on the line.

It was like having a small village of go go dancers. There were roses and big teddy bears all over the place new every day. I Have never had so many roses and teddy bears in my life. I know which clubs test the ladies monthly and which check them weekly. I know which clubs have women working there with HIV. The ladies talk a lot. I know where they go after work and what they do with their money.

They would introduce me to their boyfriends as father. I would speak Thai to the guys and they would look at me a bit funny. Some of the Falang BF's would bring me cigarettes and whiskey.

I have met a couple of other men who have done the same thing. Do I think I know more about bar girls than anyone else in Thailand. More than most probably. How many men have you met who lived with 6 bar-girls? Not as a customer or sponsor or boss. I was like an older brother to them. I bailed them out of jail. I took them to the hospital when their Thai boyfriends beat them up. I made sure they didn't do drugs. I made sure they had enough to eat and got their rest. I babysat their kids when they visited. I didn't have sex with them. If you lived with six women who had no secrets from you, you wouldn't have sex with them either. At one time or another 4 out of the 6 asked me if I knew anyone who made porn movies. I didn't, so none of them did any porn. But men would take pictures of them all the time. They charged more the bigger the camera. They charged the men to take photos and this happened at least once a month. It is not uncommon at all. To go from photos to videos is not a big leap.

Wow from this and many of your other posts seems like you've led an interesting life there Mark45Y, to say the least. Ever think of writing a book about it? I'd buy a copy.........

It is not necessary to get out of Pattaya as you say to see a "different" and "better" side of Thailand. There are many nice farang and Thai people living and working and leading perfectly normal lives in Pattaya. This is always hard for visitors and some residents to believe. We choose to live here for the proximity to Bangkok, the variety and quality of grocery and restos, the social activities [not bar related], and the sports and recreation opportunities that would likely not be readily accessible in more remote locations.

I know and I agree with you to some extent. There are 'some' nice Farangs and 'some' nice Thai poeple living and working in Pattaya. The problem I have is with the high percentage of folks in the other bracket - the 'not nice' bracket. There is just so many of them here in Pattaya. And I'm not talking about meeting them in the bar areas or touristy places. Its just the lack of manners or common courtesy that I witness nearly every day. Mostly from foreigners here. From the guy I witnessed last week shouting at the woman behind the pharamacy counter because she didnt understand what he was saying (English is not her first language - you dipstick), to the guy in front of me at the checkout in Lotus trying to pick up the checkout girl who was at least 30 years younger and clearly uncomfortable with his advances. I know several women working in a retail shop 3km away from any gogo bar or massage parlor. Yet they are hit on every day. When explaining that they are not for sale they commonly get the 'well then why are you in Pattaya' response. And thats even way before I get started on the type of folks and disgraceful scenes I've witnessed in the bar scene.

None of these things are terribly offensive but its more the daily grind of witnessing this crap every other day. Yes nowhere is perfect and bad manners/rudeness can be found everywhere but its just seems to me that Pattaya has too many of these kinds of folks even in the 'good' areas.

I kinda still like Pattaya and all that it has to offer but after 3 years I just felt it was time to move on. I will miss the beach and the convenience of life here, thats for sure. Who knows maybe ina year or two I'll be back.....

Reply to Rumcabi.

I relocated from Pattaya (Jomtien) to Chiang Mai in 2008 and would never go back. Its far more relaxed, but with nightlife, albeit on a much smaller scale that Pattaya. For instance, there are only two A-Go-Go bars to my knowledge.

Good luck with your relocation, and don't forget to sign up for TV's Christmas Party on December 11th if you haven't already done so; can't see your name on the list. By the looks of things it getting quite full. The thread is on the Chiang Mai Forum page.

Thanks for the invite 'Nuff'. I'd like to go but I wont be in CM on that particular weekend. Next time you guys are meeting up I'll come along for sure.

i left pattaya 5 weeks ago and now live in na bot in tak province, very boondocks, mostly farming. my wife asked me to move up.

at first i was bored but i am making alot of friends and feeling much better. its very beatiful up here, better than cm. the people are

AWESOME, i cant believe how nice compared tp patts or bkk. when i go out people buy me beers like crazy and seem to like farangs. i havent been overcharged/ripped off once.

when i get bored i just jump on my motocy and go exploring. the roads are very safe, hardly any traffic.

girl wise its not like pattaya but in a week i acquired a hot lil burmese girl, i just buy her food and she seems happy enough. i met a few other thais too that seem nice.

its super cheap to live up here, i'd say 1/2 the cost of patts. i spend about 700 baht a day, beers, girl, bills etc

oh the police are awesome here, i made friends w 3 so far, last sat night one took me out drinking in his police truck lol

i got 2 business card to show at checkpoints but i always get waved thru, no helmet, unreg bike etc lol

Totally Agree Dude. Once you get outside of Pattaya you see a totally different side to Thailand and its mostly for the better. Sure there's not the same number of bars, gogos or western restaurants but I find the sheer friendliness of the local population more than make up for that. In Ubon I didnt know how much the baht bus was so I just handed in 20 baht and walked off. Furious honking and calling me back ensued. I went back thinking, 'they must want more than 20 baht' but it was to give me back my change. Small things like this do not happen in Pattaya.

When you said its 'better than cm' - did you mean Chiang Mai? How is it better than there? I only ask because I'm going to leave Pattaya and move up there to CM next week. Hope I'm doing the right thing.

Half sell price? Do you expect people to take a loss? I am offering a property 3 mill off,

Well, if you bought at the peak and the market turns and you really want to sell then, Yes you will make a loss. It was an investment that didnt work out. If I buy an overpriced house and try to sell it next year I'm not automatically 'entitled' to a profit. I can try and make one but its not a 'right' I have.

And as for your 3 mill off, thats a meaningless number. 3 mill off from what?? The only number that matters is what the market will bear right now. That is what you can sell it for. Plucking a number from the sky and subtracting 3 mill is pointless........

Beware !

A friend of mine booked a return fare to the UK with a Pattaya travel agent and paid cash. He received all the flight details from the travel agent for both journeys on a computer printout to be shown at departure check in.

He flew out with no problems, when he checked in at Heathrow for his return he was told no money had been paid by the agent for the return flight. He had to pay for the flight again.

On his return to Pattaya he went to agent in Soi Post Office but the premises had been closed down and shuttered.

How can you avoid this happening to you?

Had a very similar thing happen to me. Booked with one of the big Pattaya travel agents. I dont know if I'm allowed to mention their name or not. But from now on I will avoid them all and book directly online

Just recently actually I've been noticing Songthaews more and more on third road. I live just off third road south of Pattaya Tai. A year ago I would never see a Songthaew on third road. Now I'm seeing them fairly regularly (about once every 20-30 mins or so) for some strange reason. I dont know if they are special hire or not. I've a scooter so I dont use them. I saw several Thais flag one down and jump in the back, I assume they were paying the usual 10 baht.

There is some construction at the intersection of second road/Pattaya Tai so the baht buses to Jomtien are taking an alternate route.

Ahhh that could be the explanation................

There are Songthaews running down Pattaya Khlang and 3rd Road, I assume mainly during the rush hours when ppl go and return from work. At night, one has to be patient to grab one and then it could be a charter, so not the usual 10 Baht fare!

Pattaya Klang service is quite regular. Definitely more frequent than North Pattaya, probably less frequent than Pattaya Tai. Ten baht.

I remain skeptical about 3rd road 10 baht service. Any other reports?

Just recently actually I've been noticing Songthaews more and more on third road. I live just off third road south of Pattaya Tai. A year ago I would never see a Songthaew on third road. Now I'm seeing them fairly regularly (about once every 20-30 mins or so) for some strange reason. I dont know if they are special hire or not. I've a scooter so I dont use them. I saw several Thais flag one down and jump in the back, I assume they were paying the usual 10 baht.

Just finished drinking my coffee with my wife in her little park cafe where l met her.

And please you one of the best wise ones here can you explain why people put 5555555 is it because they cannot go any further.

Well the word for 5 in Thai is ha, so 555 is hahaha. It is a local variant on lol.

Thanks very much for that. I see 5555 all over the place and never had a clue what it meant. I didnt want to ask what it meant in case I came across as old, out of touch and 'uncool'. Obviously that would never do.

I have both OK on Banglamung cable.

Can't wait for the "EVENT"

Oh My Gawd - you are not talking about "THE EVENT" are you? The Event that is normally advertised a minimum of three times on every single ad break on Universal? Wow I cant wait to sleep through that either...........

I understand what you're saying but my point is that the tax id and insurance already clearly show who the owner is so why now at once the extra requirement for the green book copy.What will be next?A verified statement from your mother that it is you named in the book or the receipt from the motorbike shop where you paid for the motorbike?

The fact is that this is just another example of,lets create some more requirements because the easy money extortion pool is running dry.

Yes, and your point is well taken. I completely agree that it is silly and unnecessary to carry the green book when proof of ownership is already established. However, if these are the new rules and a policeman asks you for the green book with the authority to possibly fine you for not having a copy. Isnt it better to be aware of the rule change and to carry a copy rather than haggling and arguing with an officer on Sukumwit?

'Rumchabal' I think you are telling little lies here.

The gate in the picture is no where near the aircraft carrier, but if you had actually got near to the correct gate (and could see the ship over on the right) then the Thai guards (with Navy security also) would not of let you into the inner sanctum, plus just inside this gate is Navy security and you are funnelled into this by nearly 100 huge steel containers forming a barrier around the whole ship, plus the ship has guards and officers at each gangplank, so sorry your story is not plausible.

Also the 3 ships left this morning for Japan and refitting.

Are you trying to get a rise out of me? You accuse me of lying, making up a story. Why would I do that exactly? What do I possibly gain from making up a story. I posted pictures that I took with my own camera from on board the ship. Yes, there was 100 huge steel containers, our tour group was escorted around them and onto the ship by our navy guides.

Here is a picture of our navy tour guides at the entrance to these 100 steel containers

Here's the kind officer who was our groups main tour spokesperson

For the tour there was 3 other very friendly navy lads who made sure we didnt stray far from the rest of the group

Are you still going to say my story is 'non-plausible' Pleeeeease

Been here for a number of years and a copy of the green book has always been a requirement at a police stop but not always asked for.

The green book is your proof of ownership.

On both the yearly tax slip and the insurance document are your name and full address written.You can't obtain either of them without a legal green book.So to me it is obvious that this proves who the owner is.

I went a few weeks ago to get my motorbike tax and insurance for another year. I had to give in my green book in order to get the tax and ins. I returned a week later and I got everything. They also gave me a photocopy of my green book and told me that I had to keep this copy with me on the bike. They explained to me that the requirements had changed and now the green book (or a copy of) is now needed to show the police.

Same-same I just drove at speed past the barrier,parked up and walked to the ship up the gangplank or whatever the thing is called and waited for a touring party,just chewed the fat really for an hour, looked around wandered off ,that's it. Christ those sailors look as tho there fourteen if a day. pity about the gook looking faces awaiting them tomorrow at harbour entrance North Korean sub periscope poking outa the water.

Yes - I did notice that the sailors were unbelievably young looking. The alternative is that I am pushing on in age but no no - its them that are young.

Hmmm a North Korean Sub versus this floating city??? That would be as one sided a fight as you would ever see.

......................................

Hi Rumcabal. Can you tell me a bit of your situation at the port ?

I went up yesterday but as the other guy said I could not get past the security gate I was alone and tried to drive through.

When you went up did you have a Thai partner with you ? did you try to drive through ? or did you hide the car and sort of blend in with others who were walking through past the gate ?

When I was there I tried to offer the security my Thai driving license but was told that any person going through the gate Thai or farang who was not crew of the ship had to show Thai identity card. maybe as always this is just TiT.

Hi - I went there with 2 colleagues of mine, both Farang. We parked on the road outside and walked straight down to the ship, a distance of about 200m. At that gate, I didnt notice any security guard. At least if there was a guard there he didnt say anything to us. I have a Thai license but never had to show it. Come to think of it security was unbelievably lax. From the sounds of what others are saying it seems that we might have just been lucky on that day.

My friend to day went to see it and was turned away by the gate guard , so it looks like you cannot

get too close to to take any photographs - shame really

TL

I went there yesterday. I didnt even notice any gate guards. Walked right up to the edge of the boat and saw some folks lining up for a tour. Asked if I could join without any problems and surprisingly little security. I only had to do was sign my name. The security must have changed though. Here are some pictures as evidence!!

View from the pier

An F18 up close and personal

View from the Bridge