Papadragon

I'm sorry but what you describe as a hazard is nothing more than a part of a travellers everyday life, if nothing to hide, no problems, get over it and get used to it.

Really? getting your laptops seized by customs is part of a travellers everyday life? if nothing to hide, no problems??? did you notice this man does not have his laptop back yet, and may not get it back....ever? His laptop is SEIZED he has had to leave the airport without it, and what do you recommend him to get used to? having to buy a new laptop when arriving at your destination?

The fact that people seem to think this is ok, and add in the spying these so called democracies are doing which nothing is being done about is great cause for concern....

Does anyone remember Baden Powell's motto ? BP = Be Prepared

Anyone that's ever run a business using computers knows that back up of the days work is done at the end of the day.

In my business we actually backed up twice a day so if anything happened to our computers we only lost half a days work !

The backup tapes were taken home at night in case the factory burnt down !

I travel with a 5 year old DELL Inspiron 1520 which I bought 4 years ago 2nd hand on E-Bay for GBP400

Amortised over the period it's actually cost me 2 quid a week to have and use 10-12 hours a day

Old habits die hard - I back up my data every week onto two flashdrives in case anything should go wrong.

One for pictures and music the other for Word and Excel

This year alone I have entered Thailand twice, the UK twice, Canada twice and the USA once.

At no time have I been stopped and searched by customs entering any of these countries !

The only time my computer was taken out of it's bag and sent through the X-Ray machine was when checking IN for flights.

If I had been stopped and subjected to the kind of treatment the OP received I would simply have laughed.

It would have given me great pleasure to tell them to keep the machine - I'm due a new one anyway

luckily the immigration officers i work with in Amnat have so far been friendly and a great help. it doesn't hurt that i donate to their tip box every 90 days.

i get stressed and nervous every year when i go through this process of getting permission to stay in the house i built and live with my wife and kid. its pretty crazy.

one thing to remember - Thais are always right! in the stores, on the streets, in the o

ffices, everywhere. if you get into an argument, you have to bribe or tip. and always smile and wai.

this isn't our country and they don't want us here.

Agree with your advice. When I go to immigration I let the wife do all the talking and I shut up.

Couldn't agree more Expat

Leave it to the wife after all it's her ATM she's protecting and want's to keep close by

Last Monday I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage

My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014.

I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away with my wife.

After that I left it entirely in my wife's capable hands.

She made two more trips ALONE, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice

She also went ALONE to the local Amphur twice

She also went ALONE to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.

I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post.

We are a mature couple 73 and 52, we married, lived and worked in the UK for four years before returning to our home in Thailand

My Thai wife is more than capable of handling the petty officialdom in her own country, she speaks their language for a start.

I have no idea what was said and frankly I don't want to - she even got the Immigration officer to agree that I don't have to report in person every 90 days - all she has to do is bring in the necessary form duly signed.

An income statement from an embassy does not prove anything.

It only proves that you stated to the embassy personal that you have income (which you do not need to proof) and they make that statement official with some nicely designed piece of paper with a stamp on it. And then charge you money for it, of course.

The immigration officer is aware of this and sees this statement from the embassy as just a piece of paper confirming what you stated. Which could easily be a lie.

My personal strategy is to just do the 3 month visa runs until i am 50 (which is soon) and then apply for a retirement visa with 800k in the bank.

That should be the easiest as the requirements are simple.

If that fails, i am falling back to be a perpetual tourist, welcomed everywhere in the world.

This post is INCORRECT - The British Embassy income letter is NOT a worthless peice of paper issued without evidence of income.

To get mine I had to prove income with a copy of my annual Pensions Office letter. the annual P60 from my private pension and 6 months UK bank statements showing the money arriving on the due dates before it was issued.

As stated in a previous post I never have more than TB50,000 in Thailand and would never pay TB400,000 or TB800,000 into a Thai bank.

Given the uncertain and irrationality of the Thai political scene etc. anyone that does so might just as well kiss their money goodbye - I keep my money in the UK

I think this is clearly a case of a Thai official that just did not like you from the start. Youngish guy getting probably 4 times his salary for what he sees as doing nothing, has a pretty wife and can speak Thai.

It seems that something in your manner, attitude, personal demeanor, the way you spoke made this Officer look for ANY excuse NOT to give you an extension and he found it

The interpretation of Income for a Marriage extension as having to be EARNT if you're under 50

This Officer clearly sees UNEARNT income from a trust fund as being suspect and unreliable.

Hence the requirement that you show TB400,000 in the bank.

You insulted him by questioning his authority and calling for his Supervisor hence his comment to you regarding your wife finding a husband who did fulfill the requirements.

Tit for Tat it's called in my country or "handbags" as we call it

Furthermore I would like to add that contrary to some opinions here the British Embassy income letter is NOT a worthless peice of paper issued without evidence of income.

To get mine I had to prove income with a copy of my annual Pensions Office letter. my annual P60 from my private pension and 6 months UK bank statements showing the money coming in before it was issued.

I also presume that pension income is classified as EARNT income and is guaranteed.

As stated in a previous post I never have more than TB50,000 in Thailand and would never pay TB400,000 or TB800,000 into a Thai bank.

Anyone that does might just as well kiss the money goodbye - I keep my money in the UK

Wow, this is crazy! I never in a million years expected 6 pages of replies.

I don't even know how to reply to each one of them, but I'll try in the next few hours to address at least a few of them.

The retirement visa option is out of question for me, as I'm in my mid-30's.

I never had any issues with Immigration in my last 4 extensions. What shocked me the most is that he refused to return my passport until after I signed the document that I would have 400,000 in the bank account on my next extension - and his supervisor was there when he did that, so she must have known about it. And also when he suggested to my wife that she should find another husband who had 400,000 in the bank if I didn't have enough. I wish I had a tape recording of that moment.

I'm beginning to get the picture now

Mid 30's and receiving TH80,000 pm from a trust fund and only TB260,000 in the bank

I have never found Thai Immigration Officers hard to deal with as long as you are decently presented, show respect, wei and bow slightly and ask them to help you.

If you treat them like subordinates and inferior to you they will take that as an insult - you should give them face - make them feel important.

Demanding to speak with his superior was the kiss of death - the ultimate insult - what did you expect after that ?

Draw your own conclusions as to why this particular Officer reacted in this manner TV people - I have

Also when the Immigration Officer suggested to your wife that she should find a husband with TB400,000 in the bank did he speak English or Thai ?

Presumably he spoke in Thai since they are both Thais - do you speak Thai well enough to understand what he said ?

I doubt it ! So how can you be sure exactly what he said ? and if he did that's the ultimate Thai to Thai put down !

You must have really pissed him off

Reading from the beginning it seems to me that the OP really got up this Thai's Immigration Officer's nose - maybe his attitude was arrogant or presumtive and demanding. In any event the Immigration Officer dug his heels in and told him to "Get Lost"

Last Monday I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage

My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014. I just have to report to the police every 90 days

Together with my Thai wife I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away.

After that I left it entirely in my wife's capable hands.

She made two more trips ALONE, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice

She also went ALONE to the local Amphur twice

She also went ALONE to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.

I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post.

We are a mature couple 73 and 52, we married, lived and worked in the UK for four years before returning to our home in Thailand

My Thai wife is more than capable of handling the petty officialdom in her own country, she speaks their language for starters.

Total Cost of the exercise TB18,000 (GBP360) which includes the original Non-Immigrant O broken down as follows :-

Thai Fees TB5,500, British Fees TB5,000 plus buses, taxis & hotels TB7,500

Further to the above I have a Thai bank account as does my wife

My pensions are paid into my UK bank account and I transfer TB30,000 a month living expenses

I would never even contemplate depositing TB400,000 for a marriage visa (or TB800,000 for a retirement visa) given the volatile nature of the Thai attitude to foreigners living in Thailand

The problem is not the sending of the money - the problem is getting it back when the S-H-I-T hits the fan

As Papa told me - when you enter a room always check your escape route and sit facing the door

Reading from the beginning it seems to me that the OP really got up this Thai's Immigration Officer's nose - maybe his attitude was arrogant or presumtive and demanding. In any event the Immigration Officer dug his heels in and told him to "Get Lost"

Last Monday I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage
My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014. I just have to report to the police every 90 days

Together with my Thai wife I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away.
After that I left it entirely in my wife's capable hands.
She made two more trips ALONE, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice
She also went ALONE to the local Amphur twice
She also went ALONE to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.
I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post.
We are a mature couple 73 and 52, we married, lived and worked in the UK for four years before returning to our home in Thailand
My Thai wife is more than capable of handling the petty officialdom in her own country, she speaks their language for starters.

Total Cost of the exercise TB18,000 (GBP360) which includes the original Non-Immigrant O broken down as follows :-

Thai Fees TB5,500, British Fees TB5,000 plus buses, taxis & hotels TB7,500

Today I was granted a one year extension by virtue of our 15+ year UK marriage
My Non-Immigrant O single entry 90 day visa issued in London in July expired on 3rd October.

My passport has been stamped now to 3rd October 2014. I just have to report to the police every 90 days
I made 3 trips to the nearest Immigration office 60 miles away with my wife
My wife made the last two alone, I wasn't required - our non family guarantor was required twice
My wife also went alone to the local Amphur twice and to Bangkok to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs twice and to the British Embassy once for affirmation of our UK Marriage Certificate.
I had already applied and received the British Embassy Income letter by post
We are a mature couple 73 and 52 and my wife is well capable of handling officialdom in her own country
Total Cost TB18,000 (GBP360) including the original Non-Immigrant O as follows :-

Thai TB5,500, British TB5,000, buses, taxis & hotels TB7,500

Absolute rubbish - since when do Embassies legalize marriage certificates

The Affirmation from the Embassy is to make sure that the certificate is real deal and not a KaoSan Road forgery

Furthermore I've travelled in and out of Thailand 51 times by plane, minibus and train and I have NEVER been asked for proof of onward travel.

1. All the time,

2. Affirmations to get married to a Thai is just that, free to get married, it's not a certificate.

3. People travel in and out every day without having to show proof of onward travel, 99.999 % of them are not married to a Thai.

Just to settle the argument with some actual facts

Firstly the AFFIRMATION (copy attached) was obtained on the 10th September 2013 from the British Embassy in Bangkok (cost TB2,800)

It is required for every British Marriage Certificate plus a translation into Thai (cost TB300)

On presentation at Thai immigration Bangkok they will issue the necessary document (cost TB800) so that the local office can issue the necessary KR.22

This "exercise" cost including buses, taxis and hotel came TB10,000 and took 3 days to complete

Finally thankyou for agreeing with me that people travel in and out every day without having to show proof of onward travel

When you are married abroad immigration wants you to officially register the marriage (not that you marry again) with an local amphur, in case you want an extension of stay based on being married to a Thai.

Procedure is as follows:

- you have the marriage certificate legalized by your embassy (you do not get an affirmation letter, that is for people who need to get married. You are already legally married).

- you have the document translated into Tha

- you have the document legalized by the Thai Minitry of Foreign Affairs

- you make copies of everything for later use, such as if immigration ask for it

- you go to any amphur in Thailand to have the marriage recorded into the Thai marriage register. You now get a khor rhor 22, where people married in Thailand get a khor rhor 2 form.

With a visa there is no requirement to hold proof of onward travel. You do need it when you travel without a visa.

Absolute rubbish - since when do Embassies legalize marriage certificates

The Affirmation from the Embassy is to make sure that the certificate is real deal and not a KaoSan Road forgery

Furthermore I've travelled in and out of Thailand 51 times by plane, minibus and train and I have NEVER been asked for proof of onward travel.

We were married in the UK in 1998 and when my wife went to her local Amphoe for the necessary Kor Ror and was told they only issue them in Bangkok.
So she caught the bus to Bangkok.
When she went to Thai Immigration she was told that, as the Marriage Certificate was British and in English, she needed a Marriage Affirmation from the British Embassy.
So she went to the British Embassy and got the required Affirmation - cost TB2,800
This of course was in addition to the Income Letter already obtained by post – cost TB2,300
Back to Thai Immigration where the Affirmation had to be translated into Thai - cost TB300
Only after all this did they issued the necessary Kor Ror - cost TB800
Total cost including the return coach fare and taxis running around Bangkok TB9,000

So far we have been to our nearest Immigration Office 4 times - round trip 120 miles each time.
I was given a 25 day extension on my Non-Immigrant O 30 days before it expired on the 1st visit
We have been back three times since with various papers, photos (in duplicate) and a non-family adult householder to guarantee that we do actually live together. I have been told to report AGAIN on the 28th October for the 5th time.

In the last 17 years I have entered Thailand 51 times - 37 Visa On Arrival, 9 Non Immigrant O's and 5 Non Immigrant B's
I have NEVER overstayed and have NEVER been refused a seat on an airplane when flying on a one way ticket which I often do.
I have NEVER been asked to show a return ticket or a hotel reservation.
Knowing how Thai Immigration give you the runaround from a previous extension based on money in the bank in 2003 I decided to rent a condo in Penang from October 2007 to March 2013
I came to Thailand for a few days every 90 days usually by minibus but occasionally by plane (22 times)
My wife came to Penang every 30 days for two weeks (70 times)
We gave up the condo when Malaysian Immigration at Sadao started asking why I didn't buy their MM2H for GBP30,000 and started making life difficult.
I had no problems when arriving by plane at KL or Penang airports and strangely enough they never bothered my wife at all ?

I am now 73 and my wife of 15 years is 52 (there are no children involved)
Some advice in dealing with Thai Immigration
Both you and your wife dress smartly and wear gold - Thais respect outward signs of wealth
Speak some Thai – sawadee kap, mia yai sip hah pi, she hah sip song, me jet sip sam, speak Thai nid noi, fontock mak mak, kop khun kap.
Ask which EPL team they support and when they tell you – laugh – then say you also support the same team even if it is Man U
Learn to kiss arse and jump high and NEVER NEVER lose your cool and start thumping the table.
Always remember you are an Alien and a guest in THEIR country.
They’ll give you the runaround to justify their own self importance, keep their job, rip you off and let you know that you are little more than “shit on their shoe” and very lucky to be allowed to stay in their wonderful country.

Bottom Line - They don't like you but don't feel picked on !

Thais think they're superior to every other race on the planet and that includes Germans and Israelis who take some beating.
Forget Buddha - Zenophobia is their religion and they think acting stupid is clever until found out and then they giggle like schoolchildren caught in the act or they "lose face" at shoot you.
Don't be fooled by their "smiles" that is their way of saying "I'm smarter than you'll ever live to be, stupid farang"
When you have been here for some time you learn to play the game their way, you will act stupid to prove them right and "smile" back and that includes the playing their visa game
All Embassies have conspired to make money out of the visa racket and the foreign embassies are in on it.
The British Embassy charge GBP50 for an Income Letter (which doesn't have to be translated into Thai) and another GBP50 for confirming that a British Marriage Certificate is genuine (which does have to be translated for a further GBP16).
Thai Immigration have cottoned onto to the money being made for the forged documents being produced down Khaosan Road
Embassies are NOT there to help you - this you will find out if you ever get into trouble - they are there to help themselves.
Together with Thai Immigration embassies and consulates they are tax collectors, job creators and profit centres
The hurdles they erect, often at a moments notice as you've just cleared the last one, are simply to prove that you are the trained monkey and they are the RingMasters. So learn to jump the fences and "smile" at the same time.
Superiority, job creation and status is the name of the game for as long as they can keep you waiting, producing this that and the other totally unnecessary document, the bigger they become and the smaller you become !
Your humble gratitude, your "Kop Khun Krup Mak Mak" as you genuflect and bow out the door when they finally issue your visa is their ultimate triumph and proves, to them at least, that they are superior to you in every way.
Just another stupid farang to be ripped off in the LOS (Land of Scams)

Third world country, equals and inability to understand civilized boundaries. Plus the justice system is not a realistic avenue to settle arguments. The result is frequent instances of resorting to uncivilized behavior, to wit, knife and gun.

A further fault of the justice system, is that not only is it not an avenue to settle disputes as an alternative to violence, it is also not a deterrent. This guy will get bail and if a first offender, may not see the inside of a jail. Unless the victims family have some pull and no interest in a financial pay off. But I'd wager bail will be available in any case.

In a country where law enforcement is minimal and even more crooked than the crooks themself and where justice is either absent or negotiable it's best to avoid confrontations with the natives most of whom have short fuses and access to a gun.

Keep a low profile, walk and talk quietly but carry a big stick

End of the day.

Immigration are always in the right.

They hold all the aces.

Well said Hedgehog

Your coment reminded me of a manager of a football team I once played for

He used to say "The Referee is NOT always right but he is ALWAYS the Referee"

I think that's the same in any country that has a large tourist industry and a low wage economy. Tourists flock in and are all relatively wealthy compared to the locals. Many are here for what to them is cheap booze and nice weather. They're on holiday and so dress casually, (some very!), relax and enjoy themselves. Locals assume this must be how they always behave because they have plenty of money. Resentment builds. Used to see a lot of this type of behaviour in Spain, the Greek Islands and Italy when their tourists industries were expanding in the 70's and 80's. The "quaint" polite local behaviour to tourists changed to a more aggressive tolerance aimed purely at getting the money from them. A lot is a direct response to the behaviour of the tourists.

In Asia this is exaggerated further by the phenomenon of older foreign men coming and taking much younger wives, gfs or frequenting the sex industry. Many don't like this and again see it as a demonstration of wealth.

Thailand is not a highly dangerous place. If you argue with locals when you don't understand the norms or speak the language, become aggressive or abusive, then you'll get trouble. Same in most countries. There are places to avoid and known and well publicized scams to be wary of.

Thais are a proud people and see an attack by a foreigner as an attack against all Thais - so they will pile in to defend "their honour".

In amongst all the bullshit here I find this one decent comment on Thailand, Thais and their attitude to "farang".

Congratulations Baerboxer on a very astute assessment of the current situation in Thailand

I first came here in 1996 married a Thai in the UK in 1998 where we lived till 2002 returning "home" in the same year.

I have witnessed first hand the changing attitudes over the last 17 years as the Land of Smiles has turned into the Land of Snarls or the Land of Scams.

The lovely friendly people of 1996 have grown older and moved on - the current crop of Thais see tourists as soft targets for anything they can get away with knowing that law enforcement is either absent or negotiable

Robbery, burglary, rape and murder are commonplace in places where tourists congregate and, like wolves round a herd of caribou, the packs assemble from all corners of the land in places like Pattaya, Phuket and areas of Bangkok

Avoid those places and live a decent quiet life in the countryside where old values still apply and respect is there for all to see.

Walk and talk quietly and carry a big stick

"The judge initially sentenced Paitoon Kruain to 26 months in jail and a fine of B21,000, but both were halved because he had pleaded guilty.

The judge then decided to suspend the sentence because the offences abduction, molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol and methamphetamine, were all first convictions."

Are you kidding me?

"abduction, molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol and methamphetamine. "

The judge should do 26 months for being a moron.

As Paitoon Kruain left the court he was seen to smile and mutter the words "khob-kun-Krub Po" ("Thanks Dad")

Flew Air India to BKK to Heathrow via Mumbai (7 hour layover) on the 10th April this year - booked a one way ticket direct from the Air India website in February and paid TB18,740 converted by my debit card people to GBP417.05

Not a bad deal I thought

NEVER AGAIN - the flights were OK, the food was fine and the trolly dollies smiles and poured me three large whiskies but they didn't have the Aviator watch I wanted to buy onboard
The stopover at Sahar Airport Mumbai was a nightmare - transit passengers must have walked 5 miles through checkpoint after checkpoint - baggage was X-rayed over and over again, my computer, boarding pass and passport were examined again and again by airport staff and military personel so many time I lost count.
I was glad I hadn't bought a return ticket.

Returned to Thailand on EVA Air Non Stop on the 5th July - booked 22nd June with lastminute.com GBP501.75
Believe me the extra GBP85 quid was money well spent avoiding 7 hours at Sahar Airport Mumbai
Hope this helps

To all you losers here's some more bullshit to add to the pile

bullshit.jpg

You have to learn to recognise bullshit when you see it