calbts2

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Doesn't that observation apply to every country? And keep in mind that in the case of Sinovac its vaccine was produced by a company that's located in China but it's not the Chinese govt.

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to prove here but first if you think the Chinese government does not have their hands involved in many if not the majority of large Chinese corporations - especially the one that produces the vaccine - then you are either very naive or a Chinese Communist government apologist.

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Think........The vaccinated are 100% protected from from deadly harm from covid even if they catch it.....And the un-vaxxed are 100% ok with receiving deadly harm from covid.........So why the need for vax passports to eat in a restaurant if everyone is ok with everyone else already.....  

That is a logical statement and it is called freedom of choice and assessing deadly risk.  Nobody seems to bring up the "deadly risk" of sitting next to someone in a restaurant that has potential deadly flu or other contagious diseases. Or how about the "deadly risk" of driving on Thailand's highways at night when there could be drunk drivers on the road?

6 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Has any country introduced a policy of vaccination passports for dining at restaurants?  I know there have been huge protests in France against the idea, but I don't if it's actually been introduced.  Unbelievable if it has.   

 

The good news is, I just can't see it working here, with the vast majority of the population not fully vaccinated and unlikely to be so for many months, if ever.

Right now in San Francisco and New York City. Already many restaurants are suing the government in New York against it.

10 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

More countries than not implementing vaccine passports, which, BTW, are nothing new. I still have my yellow book that was required to enter some SEA countries 30 years ago. Learning to live with something is not the same thing as just ignoring a problem.

 

The world needs to move on, so you and your unvaccinated selfishness can enjoy eating "al fresco".

I am not referring to vaccine passports for travel - that I don't have an issue with because international travel and entering a country is a much different activity than eating at a nearby restaurant.

What I am against is showing anything (my ID, a vaccine passport, etc) to do things in everyday living such as eating in a cafe or shopping in a store.

Integrity legal had an excellent video on this subject recently -

If you are for this then basically you are paranoid and have a totalitarian mindset to control everything in your environment all of the time.

Also I am not an anti-vaxxer - if someone does not want to get vaccinated - that is their choice and their responsibility.

Who the hell am I to control them.

And there are many problems in the world and I can't control them all like you seem to want to.

58 minutes ago, brucec64 said:

Vaccine passports make a lot of sense. Symptoms, hospitalizations and covid deaths of vaccinated people is a fraction of that for unvaccinated. So, a roomful of vaccinated people giving each other covid with relatively no ill effect does not put a strain on the health care system. This is called "learning to live with it". 

 

Most countries are moving forward with this plan, but you are right, Thailand does not have the vax numbers yet to implement this. Maybe in 3-6 months...

Yeah they make a lot of sense if you are for medical apartheid and discrimination just to enter, sit, and eat in a public restaurant. And you are wrong, most countries are not moving ahead with this type of plan and many are revolting.

Spain just ruled against these vaccine passports - and rightly so - https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/news/international/2021/08/19/88381/supreme-court-rules-against-covid-passport-obligation-andalusia.html

"Learning to live with it" in my opinion means accepting that life comes with risks while enjoying the freedom to live your life as you choose.  As an unvaccinated person, I will take the very small risk of being able to eat in a restaurant and possibly getting a virus. In fact I did it quite often without any issues during the last year before restaurants were shut down. Did we ever require vaccine passports for the flu, measles, or tuberculosis?

Actually my biggest fear of getting killed or injured in Thailand is driving the highways at night. That to me is much more risky than sitting in a restaurant - getting sick and then dying from a virus.

These measures are knee-jerk over reactions to control behavior and I find them flat out draconian, overreaching, and will be mostly ignored as they will be too complicated to enforce.

The bottom of that article states "Customers will have to show a certificate to prove they are vaccinated. For those who have been infected and have recovered, they will have to have recovered for at least a month, but not more than 3 months, and must show a negative antigen test result."

So if only 8% of the country is fully vaccinated, do all of the restaurants exclude 92% of the population as potential customers?

I wont receive my second shot until the end of October. Does this mean I am forbidden from eating at restaurants for 2 more months?

Also these vaccine passport requirements are illogical as fully vaccinated can also transmit the virus.

Unworkable, unfair, and discriminatory. Oh and what about kids not eligible to get vaccinated - are they going to be required to take antigen tests before eating in a restaurant?

Hope this goes down in flames within a week when restaurants enforcing this realize they have no customers while others that ignore it will again be making money.

From 2013 until about 2017 - A fantastic night market for eating, drinking, and shopping primarily attended by local Thais and expats with few tourists.

2017-2019 - Ratchada Train Market and Esplanade shopping mall taken over nightly by annoying, rude, and loud Chinese tour groups which created hellish tour bus traffic and pollution on the street, an overcrowded MRT station every night, and a ruined ambiance/atmosphere of what the market once was.

March 2020 - until April 2021- Market gets closed down due to the Wuhan Virus.  Reopens later in year and regains its pleasant local ambiance - albeit with far less stalls open and people attending. The one big benefit being the disappearance of Chinese tour groups.

July 2021 - Due to enforced lockdowns/rampant virus spread and the government destroying the economy with no end in sight - small businesses cannot hold on any longer (who can blame them when they get no financial support).
Ratchada Train Night Market gone forever.

Expect to see a lot more of this in the coming months as Thailand is in the midst of its worst ever economic depression. - Thanks CCP!!

Wow, a country that actually does the right thing and supports their expats with life saving vaccines.

And the French expats are not even required to file tax returns every year and be subject to citizen based taxation.

Contrast that with US expats who are required to file taxes from abroad every year and possibly be subject to double taxation and whose embassy basically

does not care for their health and well being. Instead they prioritize donating vaccines in the name of "equity" whereas Americans are not even guaranteed to get these donations that their tax dollars pay for.

1 hour ago, ikke1959 said:

Stupid action. If you are in business you have ti know you can win and you can loose.  Now it is a difficult time yes and business people will loose, But he is not alone. All over the world it is the same and a government can't take over the losses of all business, they are not the owners. Besides the Governments also don't get all the profits too when they heave the best times.  

My god what an ignorant and thoughtless post. Is there such thing as "Pandemic Insurance to pay for forced government shutdowns of your business"?

I don't think so. Normally when you "lose" it is because of competitive market forces and/or poor business management - not by unexpected forced government shutdowns.

In my opinion, if a government is forcing you out of business though no fault of your own, then they should be fully responsible for compensating you for your losses.

I hope this guy and every business bankrupted from these forced closures sues the hell out of the government and wins.

And during the best of times - government gets to tax you on your profits so your last statement is complete hogwash.

I always rent a car when I go to Phuket as you can usually get a rental for around the same price as a short one way tuk tuk ride. It really is common sense. Don't know why more people just do this instead of supporting the taxi mafia. It is often fun coming out of the airport terminal and seeing the looks on those taxi mafia driver faces when I ignore their calls and head to the car rental counter. I will pay 1000 baht for a nice one day car rental vs 1000 for a one way trip to a hotel.

Please tell me is there any other country right now doing this to FULLY VACCINATED tourists?

No tourists are coming to pay for the pleasure of being spied on 24/7.

33 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

What big changes has there been since before 2014 ? Besides insurance for OA.

You always had to account for 800k one way or another, put it aside or top up each year for a retire extension. Marriage extensions I cant recall any changes.

Ever since the coup in 2014 there have been gradual visa changes - all for the negative. Before 2014 - it was quite easy to live in Thailand long term on many types of visas.

First in was the crackdown on ED Visas which included limits to how long you could study at a language school and at least in CW - the shifting from 3 month to 2 month extensions. This resulted in many school closings and the ED Visa becoming a non workable option for staying in Thailand longer than 18 months.

Then around 2016-17 was the crackdown on tourist visas with the elimination of the double entry tourist visa, consulates in the region limiting and tightening requirements to obtain back to back SETVs, and the unprecedented entry refusals of valid tourist visa entry holders primarily at DM and BKK airports. The situation was extremely bad at DM with extreme scrutiny for any potential long stay tourist. Before this time, it was easy to live in Thailand on tourist visas or visa exempt entries. Also many border run companies went out of business - and this was well before COVID closed borders.

Then in 2018 Big joke came in and so did all the negative Retirement visa changes. First with the "pressure" on the US, UK , and Aussie consulates to eliminate in income verification letter.

I did have more than 65 k a month income but this ruling forced me to now keep 800k in a low interest Thai bank account. I will not use the monthly income method now because I do not want to be exposed to changing exchange rates and prefer to invest in my own country.

Then the requirement to keep 800k in the account 5 months a year vs just 3 months before. Ironically this only benefited agents for whom this rule is designed to hinder.

And finally with the ripoff and useless 400/40k insurance requirement that is simply a scam money earner for Thai insurance companies. I fully agree on having a strong in-patient policy but asking for 40k outpatient insurance is ridiculous and can add almost 30% to an existing premium(well over 40k).

None of these changes are positive for expats or tourists, especially if you are under 50 as your only methods now to stay long term in Thailand are to either get married to a Thai, get a job or start a business on a B visa, or become a PR / Citizen.

The TAT is "pleased" to announce a forced overpriced insurance program that is counter to what I thought was their main goal of tourism recovery?

My god what a bunch of clueless idiots!!!

I would watch what surrounding countries do in regards to compulsory insurance. As far as I know only Cambodia is forcing insurance. I surely do not expect other countries in essence requiring this large "additional cost" to visit their country. So as a result - tourists will obviously choose countries to visit that don't force insurance on them. This insurance scheme probably comes from the same greedy group that came up with the O-A visa insurance scam. Now with Covid, they have found an easy way to spread it to all foreigners.

You can guarantee the tourist ministers in Vietnam and the Philippines are very "pleased" that many future tourists will now skip Thailand and spend their money elsewhere if this idiocy continues.

*They will have to stick to routes where other Thai people do not go. They must not veer off course at all.

So is it ok if they instead interact with only foreign expats and residents as to possibly infect them as their health and well being are not as important as Thais?

What makes "where other Thai people do not go" so special?

And are there "no Thai People" area maps available? How about a google maps version that shows a big red dot where Thai people are located. Umm that would pretty much be the entire country.

They will need to know the correct courses to follow right?

What are the punishments for veering "off course"?

Completely asinine!!!!!

I must say a very positive result from being "safe and sealed".

How long can it last?

In the meantime - Enjoy the benefits of the peace and clean air without all of those exhaust spewing tour buses.

And yes extra prawn availability at the buffets????