Royspurs

3 points all the way!.............................well we cant be losing these kind of games if our top 4 target is to be acheived, will take the draw though in all honesty

These types of Games ??

They finished above you in the Table last Season, have just come off the back of beating Man United 3-0 & are flying in the UEFA Cup & you call it " these types of Games " ???

The arrogance & complete lack of respect NEVER ceases to amaze me...

Then i just realised what Thread i was in, silly me...

Surely you jest, arrogant??

In fact you point out all the reasons I would make my statement about “not losing these types of games”: the opponents are Fulham, who finished seventh and are still in Europe…………………………

If you saw the game you would have seen an even game and nobody surprised that we managed a point.

Some good news for us perhaps not for him, is that Bassong has not been selected for the Cameroon African Nations Cup squad for 2010.

Fantastic news that Bassong will stay with us. Have to worry about his state of mind though a little bit though being dropped from his national team squad.

Might have to check the Cameroon squad, they must have some awesome defenders if Bass not picked..!!

Fulham away tomorrow, a place where we don't have a great record to say the least. A draw would be a good result but a sneeky feeling Daffy might nick us a narrow 2-1 win.

Their loss our gain. King back aswell tomorrow. Very tough game but i too have a good feeling about this one

3 points all the way!.............................well we cant be losing these kind of games if our top 4 target is to be acheived, will take the draw though in all honesty

I'm sorry but I have huge concerns with these claims of over 10% return on rentals. That implies a rental of almost 1% per month on the value, or a THB10M condo renting for THB90K a month. Sorry folks, but it is not going to happen, and if anyone who claims it does happen would like to substantiate it, I'll be the first in queue to get in on it. If you don't believe me, take a stroll through the real estate ads or around some of the agents downtown BKK and see for yourself. I'd dearly love to get THB90k a month for my THB11M downtown unit but a more reasonable THB50-60k is all I'll ever see. And mine is a large unit in a well run, desirable building, not one of these rabbit hutches where you can't swing a cat. Beware of asking price rentals; they often bear little relationship to the REAL rental value and are usually stubborn owners with an inflated sense of value. Needless to say, their units sit empty for years. Anyone can ask. Getting is another matter.

Having said that, a 6% gross return is more like the general rule, or a THB10M condo renting for THB50k a month. Which is not at all bad in the current market. Adjust that number for costs (CAM fees etc) and you're looking at 5% net. Not too shabby.

Rentals, even in the current market, should be at 80% plus occupancy (condo building). If they are not, there will be a very good reason. Don't become a victim of that reason or your investment will disappear faster than a tequila down a bar girls throat

I really think then that you dont know what your talking about if you dont see a 10% return and no Im not going to publish where and when as every Tom Dick and Harry will be here next.

Nobody mentioned 10mil baht condos try going down to 1 million+ and no it isnt a dump and yes its has just been repainted on the ground floor after 3.5 years from NEW so they are taking care of the maintenance pretty well.

The "rabbit hutches" are way out performing your "luxury palaces" Im happy with my hutches but then I did some research the first being whats the largest possible market for 1. a 10 million baht condo or 2. a 1 million baht condo 3. buying at the right time 72baht per £

Smaller units in middle grounds are easier to let out. Gross return is one aspect, but the overheads to administer the lease will be higher unless the landlord has several units in the same location to spread the overheads.

I have 3 units in the same development - two 1-bed and one 2-bed. The 1-beds are giving gross return of 9.4%, while the 2-bed is giving 8.9%.

Troger,

my experience (but not in bkk) has been that cheaper properties give a better rental return, but not capital appreciation necessarily. However, as I change my focus to retirement income rather than capital gain your examples interest me, are you finding it easy to attract tenants & are they typically farang you target or Thai’s?

I'm a little shy to post a picture of our modest place in Issan, but at least I can demonstrate that happiness is mostly something in the (properly trained) mind and not simply a matter of materialism. My family, including four wonderful children, live here year round and enjoy abundant nature. All we need to eat is within a few steps of the house. The water provides a natural cooling effect. In fact in this picture my youngest son just took an unintended dip. You do have to watch the children a bit more when you have bodies of water around.

This was quite cheap to construct. As you can imagine, the land was the most expensive part, but was already part of the property owned by my wife's family. House construction was straightforward with no payment required for blueprints or permits or any such paperwork. We paid two workers 300 Baht each for the two days of construction. Having the house ready so quickly saved us a great deal of cost in getting moved back to Issan, as we didn't have to rent.

I spent many years as a younger man wondering how I would be able to afford retirement. Working hard, saving this, doing without that, all to see it wasted away in the stock market and real estate downturn of the past decade. All that angst for naught, as retirement living has turned out to be remarkably inexpensive.

In some respects, these living conditions are typical Issan style. No air conditioning, no real kitchen or plumbing, etc. But you do notice that we are not crowded in against other houses as might be typical in the usual Issan village. This affords us a nice breeze almost all of the time. One thing we have to insist when friends and family come to visit is "no smoking" which is hard for my wife to say to her elders, but she softens it a bit by including "crazy farang style rule".

kenk3z

Personally I think a picture of your home would be a valuable addition.

You should be able to see it in the background of the picture I posted. Quite modest. Note the hammock for sleeping on one side. Comfortable except in a hard blowing rain. But the kids seem to be growing up tough and are not sick often.

One does get tired of a fish (and rice of course) diet at times, but at least fish is "brain" food as some say.

kenk3z

Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit. Was no one else going to say anything about this post? Unless I've had a few too many Christmas sherberts already, it seems to me that, that fella is telling us that he and his four kids live under that straw roof and eat nothing but fish and rice! Is it me that's missed something here or everybody else?

must admit I was buttering my butt and calling myself a buscuit also!! So Ken where do you log onto Thaivisa in this hut?? Great picture of your family though, but, I think theres something your not telling us about your accomodation??

PS, sorry forbreaking the rules of this topic VF but this is Intriguing

Firstly, well done VF for the great topic and all the contributors for sharing their pictures I have really enjoyed it.

Here's my place in Issan on a few acres that I am currently constructing remotely from Philadelphia via picture updates from the in-laws……………………………………. Yes it's been a challenge, but we are back on track again, i.e. my plan and not the Monks/Fortune teller/In-Laws interpretation of how a "lucky house" should be! Don't get me wrong I love the In-Laws and they have been very helpful ever since they understand the concept of following the plans and what went before has given me stories that my colleagues and friends love to hear (priceless right )

We will spend 3 weeks back in Thailand in April/May 2010 to finish the house detail that I dont trust to the in-law picture method

Hi,

Investing in residential real estate is the opportunity to get more profit. i have found M3REO Investment Program has been created to give the individual investor the opportunity to capitalize on this incredible wealth building opportunity. Thus we will manage the client's portfolio. To get more information's visit: M3REO.COM

Or perhaps not.

nicely put pkrv

In theory it is possible to have 10% on rentals. Check out the Park Lane condo in Pattaya. If you bought there early and paid just 1 mil baht for 36 sqm fully furnished 1-bedroom you could rent it out for at least 10,000 per month. But this is theory. The real prices will be set by the market. Many investors bought Park Lane for renting it out. Competition will be tough.

Anyone have a view on rental demand for 1 bed apartments against 2 bed apartments in Bkk CBD?

In my opinion 1- and 2-beds both good for renting out. Look at the situation in certain building. If there are 30 2-beds and 200 1-beds there it may be wise to invest in 2-bed and have less competition. Check neighboring condos as well.

Bought a 13-year old 1-bedroom (45m2) near BTS Prakhanong end of Sep 2008 at Bt1.55m + 130k for renovation and furnishing. Stayed there till end Oct 2009 and just rented out at Bt15k/month. Less tax of 5%, Bt900 common fees and Bt953 for internet. Getting net yield of 8.7%. Found my own tenant, so no agent's fee.

Yes, well it depends on present value of course. I don't know the Park Lane in Pattaya and what they're worth today, but you really should be calculating your return against your present value, not the purchase value. Having said that, I would agree that it is possible to get higher returns against lower priced units i.e. if you buy ten THB1M units you might get close to the magic THB90K a month but you won't get that for a THB10M unit. But, and it's a big but, in terms of your up front capital it is safer in a bigger unit simply because that kind of development is much more likely to be well maintained. THB900 a month in CAM fees is just THB20 a meter, which is, I can assure you, ridiculously low and cannot possibly cover costs, certainly not over an extended period. The building will either go to the dogs or you will be hit for high extraordinary charges, guaranteed. I don't mean to be disrespectful but I have severe doubts as to the condition of a 13 year old building with a 20 baht/meter CAM fee.

However, the discussion is about returns and there certainly are better returns to be had at the low end of the market.

very interesting gents, so you think there is a shelf-life for apartments in Thailand generally, why, beacause of the construction quality (which I would think would apply to most buildings) or lack of maintenance? And do you think there is a pro-rata life expectancy according to CAM paid? if so

what would be a too old building with low end CAM & what would be a too old building high end CAM...........................thoughts

I'm sorry but I have huge concerns with these claims of over 10% return on rentals. That implies a rental of almost 1% per month on the value, or a THB10M condo renting for THB90K a month. Sorry folks, but it is not going to happen, and if anyone who claims it does happen would like to substantiate it, I'll be the first in queue to get in on it. If you don't believe me, take a stroll through the real estate ads or around some of the agents downtown BKK and see for yourself. I'd dearly love to get THB90k a month for my THB11M downtown unit but a more reasonable THB50-60k is all I'll ever see. And mine is a large unit in a well run, desirable building, not one of these rabbit hutches where you can't swing a cat. Beware of asking price rentals; they often bear little relationship to the REAL rental value and are usually stubborn owners with an inflated sense of value. Needless to say, their units sit empty for years. Anyone can ask. Getting is another matter.

Having said that, a 6% gross return is more like the general rule, or a THB10M condo renting for THB50k a month. Which is not at all bad in the current market. Adjust that number for costs (CAM fees etc) and you're looking at 5% net. Not too shabby.

Rentals, even in the current market, should be at 80% plus occupancy (condo building). If they are not, there will be a very good reason. Don't become a victim of that reason or your investment will disappear faster than a tequila down a bar girls throat

Hi richm7,

Agree with your comments, commencing my reasearch I am seeing 6-7% rtn on apartments in Bkk CBD, so after running cost I would expect 5%, add a little appreciation and I am happy with that.

I googled the Siam Resort Apartments and got a page stating 2006 rent prices, interesting to note that the price is the same as today, economy or glut of apartments........or both?

Anyone have a view on rental demand for 1 bed apartments against 2 bed apartments in Bkk CBD?

I like the idea of a Bkk apartment, couple of Qs in regard to your feedback:

- where do you find the re-sales?

- selling in 2-3 years sounds good in regard to property condition, but, dosnt buying & selling fees take all the posible appreciation (is there stamp duty in Thailand?) in such a short timeframe?

- do you manage the property yourself?

thanks again

Prakard.com – it is mostly in Thai, but in Bangkok market you are going to buy from Thais in 90% cases. Use google translator for reading Thai ads. The are sections on various bangkok areas subdivided by sections on particular buildings.

Check out bangkok market report on raimonland.com website. The list of new projects with completion dates is useful.

Transaction fees are relatively low in thailand and will be covered by appreciation.

It is up to you to decide whether you will be managing your properties by yourself or use management services offered by various companies. It is not a big deal to manage 1-2 condos by yourself. But if you have 10 and up units with tenants it could easily become your full-time job.

thanks ATT really appreciate it,

your advice obviously comes from good experience. I manage my properties in Oz and would do the same in LOS, Ive been checking out a few websites, however, I will not be in LOS until April 2010, so will probably make a move then.

Roy

If you want a heavy return on your investment you should consider the new property hot spot in Thailand!

I am talking about the beachfront resort town of Khanom, located at the mainland opposite Koh Samui.

We have one Thai Bali style condo complex ready to move in this December.

Phase 2 of this condo complex will be ready to move in late 2010.

You can find more info about this project here:

Beachfront Condo

I've only got a few units in Phase 1 left.... and for Phase 2 you'll save a lot of money buying off plan.

thanks but I'm not sure yours is the most objective advice on this forum

It is a good time to invest in Bangkok. Find re-sales in the projects near completion in districts like Sukhumvit, Sathorn, Chidlom, Silom. You can find very attractive deals as some thais affected by crisis and unable to pay the last installments before transferring title deed sell their properties at the prices well below market.

As an example you can buy 1 or 2-bedrooms in Aguston condominium in the center of Sukhumvit at 85,000 per sqm, while current developer's prices for the last few unsold units there approx 110,000-120,000 per sqm. Deals like this are popping here and there every week, but you have to be quick as they are selling out very well.

After buying the best strategy is rent it out for 2-3 years, and then re-sell. In 2-3 years the building (if it is from one of a few biggest thai developers) will still look fresh and attractive.

Another safe bet is to buy new condos with tenants already in place. You can have 6-7% of rental income plus capital appreciation. Good condos to look at are Address Chidlom, Aguston, Emporio Place, The Met, Athenee Residence, Siri. But dont buy from developer, look for much better offers on re-sale market.

There is no foreign quota issue in Bangkok as the market is mostly Thai. It is also less dependent of foreign investments than resort areas like Pattaya, therefore more stable, especially now.

Hi Addicted To Thai,

I like the idea of a Bkk apartment, couple of Qs in regard to your feedback:

- where do you find the re-sales?

- selling in 2-3 years sounds good in regard to property condition, but, dosnt buying & selling fees take all the posible appreciation (is there stamp duty in Thailand?) in such a short timeframe?

- do you manage the property yourself?

thanks again

Thailand is not the place to make a lot of money in property investment at the moment.

Hi PattayaParent

You can be SOOOO negative sometimes!

I know of many people who have recently invested in real estate in Pattaya and are currently getting a great ROI.

Regards

Robert

Hi fivestar,

what are the numbers you base your ROI statement on?

and what is the target market farang or thai?

thx

I am educated enough to read what you are looking for

"All I know so far is its cool in the winter season so bring clothes. Has a Lotus and a Big-C, Good Beef, and I am familiar with esarn culture etc and so im just more interested in restaraunts, bars, clubs that kinda thin please?"

I just try to say its possible to stay in Sakon without a heavy nightlife.

Obviously you did not catch that.

We should be respectful of anyone who takes time to respond in good heart, even if its not exactly what we are looking for, in this way we can keep the standards up on Thaivisa and feel encouraged to help with our input for each other.

By the way I am building in SN 20k from town. I have had some fun times there, but, its hardly on the map as far as night life goes, however, I think your chances of meeting a great girl there are much increased as there are many educated and culturally sound ladies there.

I think to be successful there you need to embrace the locals and hopfully meet a good woman.

Good Luck

Outside of what is going on in Bangkok you aren't going to get reliable statistics because no-one is collecting them in a systematic way.

The Land Registry in thailand is done on paper, not electronically, and they can't easily produce statistics. The other good source of data in richer countries comes from mortgage lenders. In thailand there isn't much mortgage financing available and the statistics from the banks won't capture the reality.

Unfortunately, you are reliant on people telling you about their individual experiences. The lack of reliable information and statistics in Thailand is why forums like this are so popular.

Hi Bemused,

thanks, your comments makes lots of sense.

Thailand is not the place to make a lot of money in property investment at the moment.

not looking to make alot of money, but interested in the type of return and capital appreciation long/medium term, obviously knowbody knows, but opinions are good

nobody out there had experience with an investment property in Bangkok??

Hi Royspurs, are you a cash buyer or would you be looking for finance?

expect it to be cash

Team Thailand,

I'm sure this Q has been answered many times, however, considering the current ecomonic climate the answers may be different.

I am considering investing in real estate in Thailand, I have a decent track record in Australia in this area, however, taxes (income & land) in Australia are making me consider Thailand as an option for my favourite form of investment.

So interested in your thoghts and experiences in regard to:

- Property in Bangkok (target expat community or professional Thai's etc)

- Rural cities (I will be living near Sukhon Nakon Issan) so opportunity for Uni students, hospital workers etc

- Capital grow opportunities

- rental return

- property management

- tax, if any

- market direction

- current value for money

- security of investment

- capitalimprovements

and anything else you may consider relevant.

Thanks in advance for your input

Are you aware you, as a foreigner, cannot own land in Thailand?

Yes I am aware, however, I was considering apartments which if 51% Thai owned I can own myself

thanks

Team Thailand,

I'm sure this Q has been answered many times, however, considering the current ecomonic climate the answers may be different.

I am considering investing in real estate in Thailand, I have a decent track record in Australia in this area, however, taxes (income & land) in Australia are making me consider Thailand as an option for my favourite form of investment.

So interested in your thoghts and experiences in regard to:

- Property in Bangkok (target expat community or professional Thai's etc)

- Rural cities (I will be living near Sukhon Nakon Issan) so opportunity for Uni students, hospital workers etc

- Capital grow opportunities

- rental return

- property management

- tax, if any

- market direction

- current value for money

- security of investment

- capitalimprovements

and anything else you may consider relevant.

Thanks in advance for your input

Team Thailand,

I am considering investing in real estate in Thailand, I have a decent track record in Australia in this area, however, taxes (income & land) in Australia are making me consider Thailand as an option for my favourite form of investment.

So interested in your thoghts and experiences in regard to:

- Property in Bangkok (target expat community or professional Thai's etc)

- Rural cities (I will be living near Sukhon Nakon Issan) so opportunity for Uni students, hospital workers etc

- Capital grow opportunities

- rental return

- property management

- tax, if any

- market direction

- current value for money

- security of investment

- capitalimprovements

and anything else you may consider relevant.

Thanks in advance for your input

Team Thailand,

Interested in your thoughts in regard to the best type of helmet for a climate like Thailand, the helmet must combind good safety & comfort at elevated temperatures.

Also a thought for my wife who is most concerned about the helmet ruining her make up!

Currently in the US where we have a great selection at good prices

Thanks in advance

Clearly having no luck .

The next best thing would be to ask if anyone else in Isaan is at least looking to hook up and have a kick around.

It doesn't have to be every week, once a month maybe.

There must be some of you guys out there who have not lost the touch!!!

This will be the last time I ask .

[Hey Alan,

I dont have a solution for you, however, I will move to SN in the next 2 years and have not lost my touch at all (just ask me), if you do get any leads I will be in!!

I am 25mins from SN near dog farm town, where are you?

Regards Roy]

I used to cross the water and had many a wild time in Chelmsford too. Many loose wimmin.

Hey Dave,

loose wimmin in Essex!!!??? are you sure that time isnt distorting your memory??

Roy (Canvey Island, equally off topic)

If you can retire at 50 with enough cash to last you until you die is not the problem. When you move to a village in the middle of nowhere is. What do you do with your time and will (generally no english contact/tv etc) your life become a bit boring

Also when you marry someone a lot younger there is a big difference in your likes and dislikes and then there is the culiure difference

So good luck you might need it

Like Binnsy, I had a small private pension kick in at 50 and lived off savings for 2 years prior to that. At 65 a Dis-United Kingdon Government pension will start (hopefully)

I do not disagree with your thinking JMS but although I live in a small village, Surin city is only 8k away with plenty of everything most people would need.

I am very happy here compared to when in my homeland and have met more good friends over here. I believe life is what you make it, surround yourself with good, positive people and stay happy.

Planning is important for all life-changing decisions as much as choosing the right woman.

WOULD I DO IT AGAIN? YES BUT QUICKER

Dave

Financially

I will be a self funded retiree with funds coming from a property portfolio in OZ. The return from this will afford my family a decent income in LOS and some savings, also, the properties will only gain in value so when I am not around anymore (in about 40 to 50 years time ) my wife and kids will enjoy a sustainable income also. An Australian (self funded) pension can be drawn down once you prove you are no longer working, but is taxed before 60, so wont touch that until then, and at my age my UK pension comes in at 66. To receive the full UK pension I am in the process of paying "catch up" national insurance contributions.

Personally

The right woman, is in my estimation, 95% of your happiness, so choose well and take good care of her, anyone out there that doesn’t realise yet that: a happy wife = happy life will always struggle. Whats important to a traditional Thai wife is her family, so take good care of them also, without being dominated by them (if they are that way inclined). My experience with my wife (and her family) is that the difference in cultures is a fantastic thing if you allow the 2 to compliment each other in your life together, I certainly learn so much from the Thai culture that enhances my life and we also benefit from western organisation, planning, logic, etc.

Roy,I retired 18 monthsago at 50 and upped and moved to Buriram and the biggest problem is BOREDOM.Golf on 3 days a week a bit of gardening.Living in a village where hardly no English is spoken so i go into Buriram to meet up with other expats just for the conversation but this tends to lead to drinking every time be ok if you are tea total.

I never though that i would become bored having lived in the country in England but if you come from a City or Large town i think it will be hard but if you don't give it a go you will always wonder what if!!!!!!!!!

Hello Binnsy,

do you regret your decision to retire at 50? Or your choice of village lifestyle? given the time again would you have done anything differently?

Roy