Hardy99

All that generalizing, flat critiques Show that most of the above writers are like sheeps follow the one run in front. Democratic means the majority says what the want to have - others is dictatorship. I am pretty shure that Thaksin did pay over all the years billions for the millions of Thai People vote for his Sister or the other 2 by polls selected PM's. As Long as a Party is violating People and offend (may be some) less educated People they will never win any poll!

PLEASE all you writers.. is there just ONE Person who can bring up a single, proven sound basis why Yingruck should not be the PM, that she is the sister of Mr. Thaksin is no reason at all, it speaks for her that she has no blood at her fingers like others did order the Military to kill People in Bangkok! She could have done same..

Those who think that Mr. Abhisit, Suthep, Chuan or democrats are better.. please check out wikileaks under corruption, Mr. Suthep was sentenced about illegal land deals - but they forgot to put him a 2 years in jail judgement, otherwise he would be in Dubai and Play Cards instead of heating up Thai against Thai!! All those who think it is good if a Person with a red Shirt passing or meet an other one in yellow and they try to kill each other without even know who the other is, go on follow the stupid protests instead of let domocratic rules play. It's cheeky, abusive and presumptuous to set the Statement the majority of Thai voters is corrupt (payd for vote), dump or inexperienced - because they are NOT they go vote and choose what they want.

Mr. Abhisit (Democrats....) was prime Minister the only thing i remember is the bloodbath in Bangkok and the nearly started border war with cambodia... is there someone around tell me ONE simple measurable good thing happened in that time ??

About Mr. Thaksin everybody can think as he/she likes.. that he payd back multi-billion debt in the first 2 years in Office, Skytrain, Suvarnabhumi Airport, Streets, Schools, OTOP, fighting drugs, develop the country's economy, payable healthcare for all and much more.... this are Facts, not flat critiques. About Mr. Thaksin was corrupt (same crime act as Mr. Suthep seems to be sentenced...) or not - I DONT KNOW. But what counts it wat has left for the People.. and that was much!

Check out wikipedia:

anti-corruption-unit-clear-former-pm-chuan-from-defunct-asset-sales-case-favoritism/

Wikipedia Chuan_Leekpai see under corruption

But I know wikipedia and all different thinking People are corrupt...

Those who meight smile about my english.. we can write in german or french

Bangkok Post said the security officials have estimated 270,000, and we all know being in the control of the government that the quote will be definitely played down.

So was it the big million + ??

Possibly.

You are a dreamer !

if they were a bunch of red shirts with exactly the same agenda and acting exactly the same way

You mean if reds were peacefully marching somewhere and locals put up barricades to stop them?

I think you got carried away a little bit - the villagers didn't have any rights to physically blockade PAD there.

Didn't the PAD also break through police barriers though?

mca you cant see clear anymore about the yellow color must have come in to your eyes. If two people do same it is not the same... clear! When red shirt sympathisants "rallye" they get troubles, get fined ans punished (3 farmers in Chiangrai area for "locking" a road". That happens because the present government must pay the bill for the unfair "set in" by elite support and yellow mob activities... Dou you think when the "YELLOWS" rallye the street is free for anybody who wants to pass. Two colors, two rules, two laws... (money money money....)

Reds were not there, no need to bring them into this topic,

As opposed to when a thread goes on about red shirt violence and then somebody pops up with how well behaved the yellow shirts are in comparison.

Feel free to complain when it happens.

So far reds have nothing to do with this incident. Unless they were manipulating the locals to erect those barricades.

"So far reds have nothing to do with this incident" YES, THATS THE FACT ! and

"Unless they were manipulating the locals to erect those barricades" thats a perverse assumption!!

Will your next writing be that Mr.Thaksin has send them millions of baht to do so...

widespread urban support

Here's your answer what gives PAD its power. They represent significant amount of people with concerns about the country, without any sign of self-interest. They might be wrong and they might be rough, but they are sincere, and they are the best you've got.

Or you can go with elites plans on how to proceed, or the army with the likes of Saprang, or PTP led by Chalerm, or the red mob directed from Dubai.

Take you pick.

I thought the PAD were the thugs powered by the elite? not the "significant amount of people with concerns about the country". If they were concerned about the country, they wouldn't continue to create unrest, which is then shows in the evening news around the world and dropping Thailand further down the list in countries preferred by tourists, as they did when they took the airports and government buildings hostage.

I highly doubt they're "sincere" or "the best you've got". I'm pretty sure they're the worst we've got right now.

YouTube Videos from Thai TV:

YEs thats the absolutely truth you write helvetian... look around whats happening in Thailand! But how can it get better with a Minister who thinks it is pleasure to seizure Airports and bring troubles to hundreds of thousands people (Thai and foreign)... or insult and swear the neighboring PM?! I would not wonder when the power behind this stupid yellow actions is coming out from the same (FM)"corner". May be thats the reason why there is no ISA in that area to prevent Thailand from a possible war with Cambodia. Are there some people acting who like to cause big troubles to refract from the incapacity of the present government...??

Who knows... but shure it will not need much time and we can read the "news" that Dr.Thaksin is the one who pays billions of baht to the cambodians to seizure "Thai" territory, when there is a need for someone doing bad - thank god - they (present government) can always count on Mr. Thaksin, where ever he is...

I used to have respect for the PAD. Now, they're just a bunch of power-hungry clowns making fools of themselves.

Any yellows or reds that want to duke it out, let them rent a stadium, bring in whatever weapons they want, and let them all dual to the death. The last remaining living person can then write a book about it. Otherwise, I have no pateince for any of them.

I do not think the local residents that want PAD to stay away are "reds" per se, although this may force them to affiliate with the reds if the government doesn't intervene to stop the madness. If the local population is coping and able to live peacefully as this matter gets resolved, then really PAD should take the hint and not try and start a war.

Some idiot is going to step on a landmine. And some idiot is going to take a shot at a Cambodian soldier who will most likely toss a grenade back. Just plain stupidity here.

There is no reason to bring the reds in this game... they protest in peace and freedom for a democratic Thailand whilst the "yellows" are crimes who violate anything if they get the chance to do so! The only thing they want is causing troubles and make problems. Thailand is gone hurt about these yellow restless disturbers and they go on - first the goverment house, then the Aiports, now neighboring countries.. what's next ???

Tree winXP pro, all genuine.

YOU must be RICH poorsucker

I would NEVER use a copy I downloaded with Piratebay, with Emule or bought in Pantip. This simply is not fair and it is a very severe criminal act not supported by the US government!!! What bad people must this be doing such bad things. Never trust them. NEVER!!! Please format their HDs if you find them!

Oh Begar. That was just a question for fun. There are many things not supported by the US Government.. who care's that?? If you look backwards what the US government supports you will find many severe acts other governments dont support... such as waterboarding, torture, bombing and many more!

so how does one stay if he cant qualify for some visa's, like 200,000 baht or whatever it may take? i am moving to the philippines but rather live in Thailand. i dont want to travel every 30 days.

oh yeah im not over 50 and i have an internet business

Seee.. thats it!! It seems like you are one of that who is breaking the law! Doing business on a Tourist Visa is forbidden! Thats it - point! If you are under 50 thats not the problem of Thailand! The rules say clear whats allowed.. all doing like that should be blocked on a black list for can not reenter Thailand for 5 years!!

You say it's so it's so shallow and simplistic to divvy the two factions in to colors (tho newspapers and commentators do it), yet you divvy them in to pro-dems and anti-dems. Look who's calling the kettle black.

Democracy isn't pretty, and even in some of the best functioning democracies, there are screw-ups (example: Gore losing to Bush in 2000, even though Gore had more votes). Democracy in Thailand, with its stratified social order and lack of democratic traditions, is more difficult. It's possible, but they're not quite there yet.

Because it's a small country, and the populace is used to being told what to think / how to vote (rote learning, do as you're told mentality) it's also relatively easy to pay for votes. Thaksin did win votes, but his legacy, as manifested by Red Shirt leaders, is twisting things in uglier directions. They're now a lot closer to mob rule than democratic principles.

Cool heads should prevail. All colored and non-colored shirt wearers should prepare for subsequent elections. Join a party they like, campaign hardily (and legally), and accept who wins, even if it's not their candidate of choice.

T was run out of office by a bloodless coup because too many Thais had gotten beyond their tolerance point regarding his many many illegal and harmful acts. The coup wasn't democratic but, like a body with cancer throughout, sometimes extreme surgery (outside of what's prescribed in medical manuals) is needed to save a patient.

Also, you'll notice that during and right after the coup, there were no complaints and no resistance. It was only months later, after T saw his ill-begotten assets getting frozen, that the Red Shirt movement got started. Between the coup and the asset freezing motion, T had repeatedly announced, "that's it, I'm out of politics." uh huh, that statement rings about as true as any of the other dozens of lies he's trotted out in the past 7 years.

Not sure if this thread is still valid. It sure is long.

You indicate that 'Red' and 'yellow' are simplistic and shallow in defining the political divide, and then you tell me that I am committing the same error by defining the political divide as "pro-democracy' vs. 'anti-democracy'

At least Brahmburger, I place the two sides into a political context. You must agree that group affinity colors say nothing.

My point, that is exactly what the anti-democracy people want - to say nothing. They dont want the international community, or anyone else for that matter, to think there is a struggle for democracy in Thailand.

You will notice they have low-keyed the 70-30 concept completely. As long as people focus on colors, and not 70-30 vs. one-person-one-vote electoral politics, gives them the space to strategize toward their goals.

So Brahmburger, how would you, or others on this board identify this political divide......The elite vs. the egalitarian, the paternalistic vs. the electoral?

Any sincere attempt at defining the political divide into a political context would be great for future discussions. Anything to get away from hiding political realities behind simplistic and shallow color descriptors would be an improvement.

As long as one can avoid diverting into anti-Thaksin hatred diatribes that is the only political commentary many on this board are capable of, it would be nice to reach some sort of consensus on defining terminology.

My contribution is the pro-democracy movement-PDM (in favor of one-person-one-vote elections) VS. the anti-democracy movement-ADM (the advocates of a paternalistic 70-30 concept). That may not be a perfect dichotomy, but I think it comes close.

Sigh, sigh...........Impossible I guess..........impossible to discuss political conceptual thinking without reversion to Thaksin stuff as subsequent postings have shown..........Is that because there is a paucity of independent and in-depth political thought here, or is Thaksin an all-enveloping presence permeating every fibre of political life in Thailand?.... I dunno..........sigh, sigh.

Sigh triple sigh.

It is impossible to discuss current Thai politics sans Thaksin because he has made himself

central to the so far nascent civil war warming up. He IS the reason for most of todays issues,

and not the plight of the issan farmers, that is propagated and continued by there very puyais

who get them to vote for Dr' T and his political machine. The hypocrisies are trenchant.

"paucity of independent and in-depth political thought"

Glad you mentioned this... slip-up maybe?

It is Thaksins up country political machine that is the WORST perpetrator

and practitioner of creating this paucity of independent and in-depth political thought.

Thanks sometimes you make MY arguments for me.

70/30 was ONE proposal thrown out from the stage, one night and discussed,

and not a PLATFORM for the future. But only ONE of many ideas discussed,

to solve the issues of the day.

But it was a turning point for the Reds because they used THAT one speech,

as their ticket to become Democracy advocates. That was their hook to use.

Never mind that it was dropped by PAD very quickly. 'Look. look what they want to do,

they very bad elites people...', yada yada yada..

and Red propagandists have ridden than dead horse for a long time since.

See the discussion of basic ideas, short of seditions, is not looked on well here.

Say one thing and be branded for ever...

oops shouldn't have had an idea good bad or indifferent,

Only perfectly actualized ideas maybe discussed, righty O.

Talking basic politics MUST include the major players and how to reach

long term goals without short term dislocations of much of society.

Thaksin has short term goals that include him as Dear Leader, Godhead

and Profiterer in Chief. His Track record is not one of true innovation

for the betterment of all Thais. Since the present imborglio is central

to Thaksin's machinations, it is impossible to divorce the two.

Try as you might to heed the master's beck and call for an image scrub.

Can we fit the Square Head in the Polyform Hole?

@animatic

ooohh you seem to know everything... if i read your posts.. what you say to someone posted 7 times... ? Do you know that it is QUALITY whats counts, not quantity??

I post in a few other sites.. no need to post much, but write the truth! Who told you the reds want a REVOLUTION?? I wonder..!! (Answer please with a name.. not just YOUR hypothesis..) They clear want what AV(PM) told he will do.. new votes! Unfortunetly AV forget already what he promised.. or he bends it other way round... the circumstances dont allow him to do so at the moment.. haha

And all bad things happen and everyone get in jail or get's in conflict with the law is always red shirt and got order from K'Thaksin.. I just wonder what BKPost and Nation will write when the Thaksin Storys are over.. You forget to write that the YELLOW REVOLUTION just stopped when they reached ther goal ... How long did they occupy the Govermenthouse and Airport....

SORRY i forgot you told here is a treat about the reds..

Some quotes from todays Bkk Post:

- Chatuporn Prompan, another UDD leader, brushed aside reports red shirt leaders postponed the protest because the number of demonstrators joining the rally was not large enough.

- "The government imposed the heightened security measure to maintain order and prevent violence, not to bar the rally or stop the protesting," said the prime minister.

- Pongthep Thepkanchana, Thaksin's adviser, said the government should revoke use of the ISA in Dusit district right away. The ISA should only be enforced when an irregular situation had already occurred, not when somebody planned to hold a rally, he added.

- "On Sept 19, the three-year anniversary of the coup which toppled the Thaksin Shinawatra government, we will not retreat again but will stand and fight" said Natthawut Saikua, another leader.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2293...-in-face-of-isa

------------------------------

Following the insanity of Yellow airport closures and Red-riots, another Songkran type upheaval splashed all over world news headlines would absolutely bury Thailand. Also destroy any hopes for even a modest high-season and derail Thailand's emergence from recession. The 'colour' of the 'winner' would hardly matter in that case, Thailand would ultimately lose.

OOOOOOOHhhhhhhhhhhhhh

If you believe that Bangkok Post is an independent newspaper... you make me laugh (i like laughing)

BK Post same as Nation just write what the richest of the rich's (Bangkok elite, Shareholders...)

censorship agrees too.. did you try to read other news same as reuters ..

Not sure if this thread is still valid. It sure is long.

You indicate that 'Red' and 'yellow' are simplistic and shallow in defining the political divide, and then you tell me that I am committing the same error by defining the political divide as "pro-democracy' vs. 'anti-democracy'

At least Brahmburger, I place the two sides into a political context. You must agree that group affinity colors say nothing.

My point, that is exactly what the anti-democracy people want - to say nothing. They dont want the international community, or anyone else for that matter, to think there is a struggle for democracy in Thailand.

You will notice they have low-keyed the 70-30 concept completely. As long as people focus on colors, and not 70-30 vs. one-person-one-vote electoral politics, gives them the space to strategize toward their goals.

So Brahmburger, how would you, or others on this board identify this political divide......The elite vs. the egalitarian, the paternalistic vs. the electoral?

Any sincere attempt at defining the political divide into a political context would be great for future discussions. Anything to get away from hiding political realities behind simplistic and shallow color descriptors would be an improvement.

As long as one can avoid diverting into anti-Thaksin hatred diatribes that is the only political commentary many on this board are capable of, it would be nice to reach some sort of consensus on defining terminology.

My contribution is the pro-democracy movement-PDM (in favor of one-person-one-vote elections) VS. the anti-democracy movement-ADM (the advocates of a paternalistic 70-30 concept). That may not be a perfect dichotomy, but I think it comes close.

Just to get this clear Maiya, if you ask any red-shirted farmer, (which most of them are) what is so great about Thaksin, you'll see the answer will mostly be something like : He cared about, us! How? He gave us money!

So there you have your "struggle for democracy", people simply fell for the populism of 1 million per Moo Ban, 30 Baht Health care skeem (scam), aso. The main thing is the million, they want this million more than everything else, democracy, come on, who gives a dam_n?

Thankfully people are too uneducated, and ignorant to realise that this money didn't come out of the pocket of their "beloved PM" but out of their own pockets. So all in all it's just populism, which the less educated and political-economical knowlegeable people fall for so easy.

There are endless examples how he was acting smart to win over people by spending money, which was not there. Otherwise he wouldn't have been in such a hurry privatising the hel_l out of thailand. And there we come again to the point that some educated people around realised, that without stopping him at that point, half of the country would be in foreign hands. and I'm not talking about hotels in phuket, I'm talking about railways, TOT, electricity board, and many more.

I know some years have passed, but don't forget why people where digusted at the time. He was selling out his own country! (to make the poor farmers that wouldn't know what was going on in the first place, think he is throwing around millions out of generosity)

Get real! Most people in this whole pro-democracy movement, don't give much about democracy but they love their "elected PM" for the money, he seems to have so much of!

Maybe soon it will be "nung phet do moobaan" (one diamond per village) sounds good and would come cheaper!

So ... noithip

..:"He cared about, us! How? He gave us money..:" Whats wrong about that?? He gave many people HOPE and FOOD(and some future)! What you think if your grandmom lays on the street and gets no treatment.. because there is no one has a VISA Card..?? Ha.. to you. Medical help for the (poor&rich) people is important.. WHO gave before?? Do you know that daily about 28000 People die about hunger and no medical care?? Do you think it doesnt matter if there are some Thais too...???

... "Thankfully people are too uneducated, and ignorant ..." I prefer thankfull and honest people.. why you gona go to write bad about people who did never get a chance for a better education? Do you think you are better just about your "better education"? What did you do for that education... ha... you just was lucky that your parents had enough money to pay for it - that NOT makes you a better human at all!! How can you know that all of them are ignorant... wasnt it ignorant to occupy Suvarnabhumi and let hundred thousands stranded (and the same amount Thai workers Jobless meanwhile..)

...There are endless examples how he was acting smart to win over people by spending money, which was not there... very simple QUESTION to YOU... easy to answer and i wonder you are educated enough to do so: HOW many billions of bath open debt THAILAND had when Dr.Thaksin came to power?? Who was PM before k'Thaksin, and just give me 2-3 samples of what THEY did good for the country.. ok??

... He was selling out his own country! ... can you give some samples please???

and finally... if someone can write about "the uneducated (means dump) people" no need democratic rights it is a very sad story! I mean they need the right for better education and the right to vote as they are Thai people like the rich and the richest, thats democratic!

How high is the value, the farmers produce for Thailand, how high is the income out of farmers products? You know the main income is coming from Tourism Industry... do you know who works in that industry(and Car,Machine,fabrics etc..).. roommates, waitresses, bellboys, cookhelps, cleaning, mechanics, ..... again most of them are the children of the (poorer, less educated) country region people you like to discredit so much... yes may be you was one of the "nung pet for all rich elites a year" and under TRT that money has gone to the poor.. thats right

Invoking the ISA is no mealy mouthed effort. It is a very serious piece of law which grants very extreme powers to the army and the government.

I don't know how many people they were hoping to get at the rally, but having soldiers sitting around with guns "hidden" and a large crowd is a very volatile situation.

Yes it is serious and also completely justified. Did you see what happened in Pattaya and Black Songkran, or not? Thaksin openly advocated REVOLUTION. No government in the world would sit back for that.

@"Jingthing" (I wonder what about your post should be jing at all....

That you are colored yellow a blind can "see"! Thailand should clean up with the mess of the yellows first! Occupy and block Airports, Streets, violate hundreds of thousands uninvolved people, seizure the goverment house for month... and.. and.. Did you get that all that crimes still run free?? ..whilst others close a road or demonstate for their labour union members get JALED !!!!!! Can you read newspapers.. not only the tinted BKPost or Nation? You would read that the world writes Thailand is slipping in political sump as Myanmar! If you feel "think" thats democratic.. up to you! To give you a chance to write something make sense not only blabla.. just list up a few things under the Abhisit Goverment has beeing done for the wellfare of the country.. (your list will be empty)!! Its much easier to complain about others then do something... every bad thing happens Mr. Thaksin has to stand for it, its a big joke, thats it!

Is Thailand still advertising itself as a democracy? What a joke. But the idea that the cronies who run Thailand have anything to do with democratic rule has always been laughable.

Can you explain that?

What isn't democratic?

Fou you the question would be easier formulated by ... whats democratic in Thailand... easy answer.. nearly nothing!

Okay ... Yes a lot of users have encountered problems with Maxnet of late, whether they are indy or premier customers.

I have had numerous connectivity issues for 14 days (coincidentally since a local link went down 9.25 PM Sat 20th June). Slow loads inside and outside Thailand, cannot find page, line drops and disconnections etc.

I have had 3 engineer visits and one remote enginneer online (teamviewer), 9 X 1103 phone calls ...still the same.

Plumski in 'Maxnet DNS' thread (post 37) was told on 1st July that the internet would be fixed on 9th July.

I was told by a woman from the Phetchaburi branch (032 440013) at 12.46 today: "mii banhaa tuk tuk thii, ja gare banhaa ik song sapdaa"

^{_{"There is a problem everywhere and the internet will be fixed in 2 weeks."}}

So there's your answer, it seems we are all running around in circles of late and so there are probably no fixes that we can do ourselves if our beloved internet provider is buggered and knows it too.

My reply and should be yours too: I am refusing to pay them this month. Their service... is well... in a word 'excrement' .

Anybody else been told this or another 'future date' ?? LOL

ITS IS NOT YOUR SYSTEM ! ! ! ! !

Its Maxnet, They have problem and too many customers use international websites...

i called them several times, i use Premier... they told me "should" be fixed within 1 week

Who knows Thailand knows also that one week may bee during one month....

it is very cheeky how they handle the people... but what can we do then wait..

Try to keep your nervs under control.. haha.. i do my best to make same..

Chock dee kap !

Both my girls go to an English Program in a Thai private school (Catholic, but that was part of the thought process).. My reasoning was this: If I am here short term and my kids would go back to the west with me, then, no question it would have to be an International. If I am staying and expect them to go to Uni here (and a good one), then I want a Thai education, but the best there is (or tha I can afford). This helped on two fronts - Thai private schools are much cheaper than Int., so much greater choice and I could see (as someone said above) where the wealthy Thais snd their kids.

I don't know how universal it is, but in my girls' school there are several type (programmes) internally. There is the basic, which the majority of kids are in; there's the more expensive 'plan' where kids get smaller classes and the curriculum is extended; and there is the EP program (in a school of 4,000 only 100 kids in my girls' school) with dual teachers (native English and Thai), classes of 15/16, extended curriculum, lessons in English, extra lessons, and so on. And as this is Thailand, the kids can be identified by the colour of their hair ribbons as to which 'plan' they are in.

I find the teachers very kind and caring: I am hopless with their hair, so oe of the teachers does their hair in the morning before class. As they had a western education up until now (private UK system since 2) they can be fussy about the food here, a teacher always takes care of them and even buys them staff sandwiches if they do not like what is on offer at the Thai canteen. Tehy have had book bought for them by the teachers and uniform parts/embroidering when we wasn't sure what was required. For a 1,000 baht a month a teacher picks them up an brings them home each day - to the door. I am very pleased with it.

What school they are going to? Thank you for short message.