bifftastic

Because, in the grand scheme of Thai things, it doesn't matter.
Also, ก isn't really a G. It's not really a K either. It's a ก 
Plus, even if there was a 'facelift' you'd still get many variations of Ganchanaburi with the wrong vowel lengths, wrong emphasis/stresses etc etc. 

Despite the fact that many foreigners will not learn the Thai script (understandable for those only visiting on holiday, less so for those deliberately illiterate who live here) it is really the only way to read Thai words with the correct pronunciation. Plus, it's not that difficult to learn. 

Imagine this issue from the perspective of people who can read Thai perfectly well (the Thai people you would have to convince to embark on this facelift) They're not sure what sound  K or G makes, it's similar to ก but not quite the same. The same goes for pretty much every Roman letter. Which one would you use for ต or ป how would you note the differences from ด and บ ? Then the vowels. Roman script just doesn't reproduce Thai sounds very well at all. So why would they substitute one Roman letter that doesn't really match a Thai sound for another one that also doesn't really match it? And to what end? After this mammoth task was completed, they would still hear  พัทยา pronounced as พเทเยอะ พเทยะ พถุย พเทย
So, I reckon they'll stick with what they've got.  

On 22/08/2016 at 4:27 PM, Bangkok Sausage house said:

Richard, you bring up a number of points that are meaningful, albeit a bit deeper than my original question attempted to penetrate.

 

Clearly, there is no one easy system that makes the transliteration from Thai script to English script easy.  Even with these issues on short and long vowels, tones, consonants that don't exist in English (at least at the beginning of sentences ป or ต or ง), there are still a number of simple changes that would make life easier for tourists.  For example:

Using G instead of K

Using K instead of KH

Using W instead of V (there isn't even a V sound in Thai)

Using D instead of T

Using P instead of PH

Using T instead of TH

 

I realize the P and the T reflect sounds that don't exist at the beginning of words in English but if you're going to come up with consonant combinations, why not use them to reflect the ต and ป sounds rather than make consonant combo's that foreigners will automatically pronounce incorrectly.

 

I think I'm fighting a losing battle here but at least fixing those 6 letters would be a considerable improvement.

 

I understand the last 3 are used in

How many different languages use the Roman script? They all use it differently. Even if you solve the 'problem' (officially, Thai people don't see it as a problem) for English speakers, you won't have solved it for, say, German or French speakers. 
The long term solution for you, I would suggest, is to learn the Thai script. For everyone else who doesn't want to/need to, they can just carry on pronouncing Pattaya twelve different ways, none of which come close to being correct  

On 22/08/2016 at 9:12 AM, DUS said:

I thought I might try asking for a topup using the exact Thai phrase that we learnt a few weeks ago.

So, might I ask what that phrase was? You can ask for phone top up quite easily just by using the word ขอ (kor, with a rising tone) ขอ 1-2 call ฿100 (neung loi/roi baht) for example.
Also, you say that after 7 or so weeks you are unable to produce the sounds needed to speak Thai clearly and be understood. Now, rather than assuming that that means there's no point in trying any more, you might question your learning methods and the teaching you're receiving. 

You also ask if you're being impatient. I would say that you are.  7 weeks isn't very long at all. 
There is most definitely a set of sounds that you need to master in order for your Thai to be clear and easily understood by native speakers. Vowel length is also often not emphasised enough too. The differences between ต and ด... ป and บ are important. Then there are the vowels, many of which do not exist in English and need to be drilled repeatedly so that they stick in your memory. Your mouth will need to get used to how these pronunciations are formed so that the muscle memory gets trained correctly. For that to happen in 7 weeks, with the right teaching methods, would be an achievement. With teaching that does not focus on these things, it would be next to impossible. 

In addition to my last post which everyone found so "thought provoking!" I now consider เก่า to mean old rather than former .

On the golf course one is required to mark one's golf balls, when they are lost they are subsequently found by non golfers who sell them to golfers. Since I lose on average five balls per round, I often notice that I am buying my own balls back. My caddy prefers to refer to them as ลูดเดิม rather than ลูดเก่า.

But เมียเก่า means ex-wife, not old wife

The order of things seem "flexible" to me. Maybe because I just dont know the rules.

noun-clf-adj

หนังสือ-เล่ม-ใหม่

noun-adj-quantifier-clf

หลายคนครับ ผมได้ เพื่อน-ใหม่-หลาย-คน อ๋อ ผมพบคนไทยคนหนึ่ง เขาบอกว่าเป็นเพื่อนเก่าคุณ

"A lot of people. I made a lot of new friends. Oh, I ran into a Thai. He said he was an old friend of yours."

http://i.imgur.com/EXIo2uH.png

Yes, there is flexibility in the word order.

เก่า means "old" in the sense of "aged," not in the sense of "for a long time." I would say เชาบอกว่าเป็นเพื่อนสนิดคุณมานานๆแล้ว Mistakes like this do not inspire confidence in the text you are using.

You need a good teacher, among other reasons, to teach you how to say especially the tones, but also the long and short vowels, etc. and then correct you when you get it wrong again and again. While you are learning the tones you will pay more attention to the way the Thais pronounce them which will help both your pronunciation and your comprehension. I think it is all but impossible for a Westerner to learn the tones correctly without a competent Thai teacher.

I will not get many likes for this but I write it anyway

After 7 years of Chinese studies in China I am completely fluent.

I say tones are not so important. I am poor with tones but almost all Westerners are. Just say the words as well as you can. (A very rough guess is that there are more consonants in Thai than Chinese making tones even less important.)

If you just read the phonetic Thai out of a dictionary (and maybe listen to audio) there is a good chance a Thai speaker will understand what you say.

Even though I have an accent in Chinese a person from Beijing will understand me 100% but he will understand 0% if a Chinese speaks Hong Kong dialect. So the Chinese are pragmatic and consider the foreigners' accent just one of many.

So I am a little irreverent to the tonal complexity of at least Chinese. Naturally it would be better to speak perfectly, one should try, but one has to prioritize when learning an Asian language.

I will not push this question. For some reason people get irritated when I say it. (Even others than the teachers earning money on, and showing how complex Chinese is by, stalling students by emphasizing tones. Tones are really hard for Westerners, that I admit, I have seen in Chinese schools. Vietnamese students learn the quickest, Japanese also learn quickly even though their language is non-tonal, but so much else is similar. Korean, Thai also learn fast.)

You couldn't be more wrong. Getting the tones right is very important. If you don't get the tone right the Thai won't understand you. While tones are difficult for us, we can definitely learn them. I can pronounce the tones correctly now although I still make mistakes sometimes. If you have a competent Thai teacher who corrects you when you get the tones (or anything else) wrong, you will learn them.

Your attitude on tones is indeed irritating because it is stupid. You are setting yourself up to fail in Thai. Moreover, the tones are part of the beauty and the fun of the Thai language. Tones are important because in Thai the vowels carry the information unlike English where the consonants mostly carry the information. If you delete the vowels from a page of English text you'll find that you can still read it without any problem. You cannot even perform the experiment in Thai since you can't really delete all the vowels. The function of consonants in Thai is mainly to cut off the vowel sound, which is why there are so few terminal consonants. According to Marvin Brown English has 35 vowel sounds while Thai has 105.

So, a completely wrong-headed approach.

I appreciate hearing your point of view and also getting help with my Thai questions here. Thanks to you and everyone that helps out.

The discussion on tones I prefer to leave.

The tone of a word in Thai is as important as how it's spelled. It's part of the meaning of the word. You cannot separate the tone from the word. If you pronounce it incorrectly, you are not saying the word you intended to say. It really is as simple as that.

My wife has been questioned every time she's gone through the border alone. She must look dodgy! Lol

When we travel to the UK together, we use the UK/EU line. She hasn't been questioned when I've been with her.

There'll be questions at the border when she arrives but I'm 99.9% sure there'll be no interview for the application itself.

My wife has had four visit visas for the UK and has never been interviewed, either by phone or in person. The decision will be made solely on the evidence provided in the application.

Adult thais are really just big children,they will laugh at the most chldish things as do i thats one of the reasons i like living here.i believe thais do discipline their children,however its left to the mother rather than the father who is too engaged drinking whiskey with his mates.

WOW,that,s a huge generalisation

Actually, it's several huge generalisations

Did Buddha have a tattoo?

Yeah, he had a West Ham badge on his leg

 I'm trying to compile a standard speech for these people to get them motivated to start looking for themselves, without being a douchebag. 

 

The last part is going to be the most difficult.

 

I don't know about expats, but Barclays has a great app for android that doesn't require a UK sim.

It has all of the functionally of the pin sentry card reader.

Have you tried this with a Thai sim inside? Barclays clearly state you must have a UK Sim and the phone cannot be rooted.

 

I use my Halifax app with a Thai sim card in my phone, no problems. Mostly it connects via WiFi anyway, I can't see how the app would 'know' much about the connection, it just connects to the internet.

Using this thread to express an opinion about people who abuse the UK immigration rules and overstay their visas falls into the category of 'missing the point entirely'.

That point being, that if there is no right of appeal, the person making the decision on a visa application is less likely to take as much care to do so correctly than if there is.

In simple terms (which may or may not help you to understand) if the ECO knows their decision cannot be challenged, there is nothing to stop them refusing it incorrectly.

As someone said earlier (7by7?) if the real aim of the government was to reduce appeals, the best way to do that fairly would be to make sure that their employees (the ECOs) make fewer mistakes.

The days when anyone, other than Nick Clegg, cares what Nick Clegg thinks or says about anything have long since passed.

There's an age of consent issue here.

It says here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia#Thailand

The age of consent in Thailand is 15 (with the below caveat) as specified by article 279 of the Thai Criminal Code. The current legislation applies to all regardless of gender and/or sexual orientation.

However, parts of the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, which disallow any sexual contact with prostitutes under the age of 18, are widely interpreted by some local authorities to cover sexual acts classed as "obscenity for personal gratification". Also from the Penal Code Amendment Act of 1997 Section 283bis, having sex with a child under 18 is a compoundable offense even with the consent of that person. The parent or the child may file charges against the other side if he or she later regrets his or her own action. This ostensibly makes the Thai unfettered age of consent 18.

 

So, they might not want his parents marching up to the front desk with a lawyer in tow demanding to know why they let him stay there with his girlfriend.

On the other hand, they might not care and just let him do what he wants.

Why is he asking you to get involved? he's lived here all his life so he should know the law, and the potential problems he might get into.

Maybe that's exactly why he's asking you to get involved!

Personally, I wouldn't.

1. I am not eligible for a Non O visa back in the UK. Although I am retired, I am not over 65 with a state pension, yet here in Thailand, I am eligible for a Non O, by way of a conversion. Why is that? I appreciate that the Non O visa in London is issued by the Embassy, which comes under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), whilst the conversion to Non O visa is dealt with by Immigration, which is a separate government department. Normally, visas can only be granted outside Thailand, so is this some sort of concession or exception that the MFA has delegated to Immigration, together with different eligibility rules?

 

I suspect it's because someone (with some power) in the Embassy in London got a bug up their arse about how they thought things should be done, and just decided not to issue Non-Imm O visas for retirement unless you are receiving the State pension.

They've also unilaterally decided to stamp 'employment prohibited' on Non-Imm O visas issued for those married to Thai nationals (which it isn't).

I would go for the conversion of visa status inside Thailand, even if Samui give you a bit of a run around, it's got to be better than jumping through all the hoops the RTE in London have invented.

Your mother is Thai, therefore you are also Thai. You should investigate how to confirm your Thai nationality. Then you wouldn't need any type of visa to enter, and remain, in Thailand.

You think she's crazy? I heard normal Thai girls don't get Tattoo's on themselves

Normal people, from anywhere, don't get tattoos of shit 'on themselves'.

What kind of shit is it? Dog shit?

Odd.

Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage.

Will Immigration start splitting up families?

No I don't think so.

A one year NON-IMM Multiple entry visa costs only 5000 baht and is valid for a year. A man who is married and or with children should be able to scratch that together. When in a real financial jam the married foreigner can always get a 60 day extension for the low price of 1900 baht.

What's clear is married people are no longer going to be able to live here using back to back visa except/tourist visa extensions.

No, they need to show 400,000 Bt per annum, or monthly equivalent.

That's not a visa, that's an extension of stay. If you have an extension of stay, what happens at borders need not affect you as you don't have to leave the country.

Surely the main point here is the form that acknowledges the fact that you understand the new overstay rules rather than which form of map is being used?

I believe they've improved the airport since I last flew through there. It was a bit of a pain, but nothing too bad really.

You won't need to collect and re-check your bags, you just go through security, which was very badly organised.

Jet Airways are fine, Mumbai was a pain in the arse, but worth it for the money saved on the ticket.

Call the army. Tell them the baby is a red shirt, or that it's crying because it wants to vote. They will, of course, fix the problem for you immediately.

Date of issue.

It will also have a date which it must be used by. Any entry you make on the visa must be done before this expiry date.

Your permission to stay starts when you arrive in the country, so if you enter one day before the visa expires, you get a 60 permission to stay.