Sherlocke

" Communists committed crimes that dwarf Hitler's." - such a childish comment

Is it the Naziswastika r the original that is being used.

BTW - THe words "Swastika" and "Sawatdee Khap" have the same origin

Is this OP just some kind of plea? well someone thinks we're nice....really!....or is it a sad reflection on your average Thai?

A very good friend of mine who lives in BKK went to them about 3 years ago as she and her hubby were having trouble getting pregnant. After many tests they emailed her a set of results that were not understandable to her as they were so scientific ('whatever' counts and such) but in time, the couple came to realise through other sources that the results meant they could never have children.

My friends were both very upset at the news and the way they were treated. They went to another BKK hospital (I'm sorry, neither I nor my other half can remember the name of the new hospital)- somewher near the Emporium I think. Anyway, long story short they gave birth to a beautiful baby 6 months ago.

This is not a 'friend of a sister's masseuse story'. These people are close friends of mine.

Bumrungrad- I woudn't touch them with a 20 foot pole- (Although handy as a shortcut to Soi 1). There are much better (and much cheaper) hospitals within spitting distance of that place. Less money on marketing I'm sure but better care and more empathy in the experience of the only person I know who has ever used them.

If I'd heard good reports of them I'd have reported that too- I have no axe to grind. But from what I've heard steer clear.

As in this thread - ((hidden link removed)) - I'm sure that some of this is due to a desperate desire to avoid confrontation as in giving out bad news - it's hardly believable but I think that this occurs to extents we in the west would consider to be impossibly ludicrous.

A sad reflection on Alledgedly the best hospital in Bangkok or even Thailand,having seen several Ultrascans myself its not difficult to recognize limbs on a featus of that age.

Heartfelt sympathies to the parents,they will probably never fully recover from this terrible shock.

......and sadly - Bumrungrad IS probably as good as it gets in Thailand!

"I'd have to guess that there are more Thais in the US than in any other foreign country," - possibly but what about Oz, Malsysia, Singapore, etc etc?

...and when I say I'm from OZ - they say "OZ number one"

and Italy - "Italy number one"

UK - "UK number one.....

Earthian = "Earthia number one"

Mars - "mars number one"

THis is turning into a damning catalogue of failures by the Thai medical profession.

This is only the people who have actually come across this thread - what proportion of the general public who use the medical system here is that? then figure how many "mistakes" "blunders" etc are made every year!

PS - following point one above - I can't see that any of the responsibility lies with the mother to check the physical state of the fetus any more than doing what she did.

2 points -

I agree that the doctor works for you and you should not be "over-awed" by these people - however they are MEANT to have in depth knowledge and training - which we don't have - there is no way you can check and double check their advice every time - and it would seem with the average Doctor in Thailand, this would be necessary. Those who train in medicine in Thai universities are often themselves from middle class, wealthy families - anyone who has had any contact with universities here will know that the culture here is to pass EVERYONE - especially if their family is known to the heads of dept. has contributed to the school etc - how can proper training be guaranteed in these circumstances?

Second point - the cost of treatment is paid by either govt taxes or insurance - so high price treatment is paid for by ALL OF US - it is re-couped either in taxes or insurance premiums. Most of the pricing is the result of gouging by hospitals and connivance of the insurance companies.

I've had a similar experience.

skin cancer is very common in fair-skinned Westerners - even those who tan easily - it seems that only Australia has an effective public education program o this.

THe UK now actually has a larger number of cases than Oz - OK bigger population but cool climate - it is folks travelling abroad to hot climes who are at risk.

Thai hospitals concentrate largely on making shin white - through highly dubious methods - and keeping it smooth - i.e. their only real concern is cosmetic. You have todo your groundwork thoroughly to get a doctor who understands skin cancers

Without a doubt thailand has competent even great doctors - but the problem is not the smattering of good doctors it is the "top-down" culture that exists in Thai hospitals - the hero-whorship even of doctors a belief in their infallibility that pervades the whole system that is so very disturbing; this coupled with a non-existant system of checks and balances is a dangerous combination.

Why should they "request" any service - they are lay-people - patients

any hospital worth their salt would have offered any service they have to hand and helped the patient choose - but as is so often the case the high-handed doctors in Thailand like to dictate treatment to their patients.

"Following the ultrasound test, she was told that her baby was fine." - As I have claimed before there is a culture in Thai medical industry of keeping the patient in the dark - I have come across one or two serious incidents of this myself and would find this to be just about the most likely reason for this mess.

whether termination is right or wrong in this case is irrelevant - the patient was either not informed or information was deliberately withheld.

In the case of a "geriatric" birth - (over 28 yrs) there are plenty of tests and observations carried out as routine which will give you pretty much anything you want to know about the developing baby.

It is clear that there has been negligence here and not just a "slip-up" this is a failure to carry out absolutely basic procedures. In fact the mind boggles to think how a fully trained doctor and team could possibly overlook these procedures.

many pelople are too in awe or confused in hospitals to ask questions - it is the duty of a doctor to offer information to help the patient make their own informed decisions.

One mistake in another hospital or country in no way justiffies or ameliorates the situation here in THai hospitals and it really needs to be looked at more closely by it's potential customers. (us!)

They either failed to do the right tests, failed to notice or chose not to tell the parents - any way it is negligence and I believe far ore common than most people would like to believe.

I went to Bumrungrad hospital 8 months ago and I thought I had a back ache. It was my good luck that the doctor had enough insight to ask for an x-ray. After the x-ray was finished they asked for another one. Ten minutes later they brought in a wheel chair and wheeled me out to a surgeon. He, with a penetrating look said to me, "Mr. Certified you are not having back spasms, your problem is much more serious. There is a main valve running into your heart and it is called an Aorta, this valve has burst and you are internally bleeding. If we don't operate on you, 100% you will die, all people do. Do I have your permission to save your life, and can I get the surgical team together now?" I said yes, signed some papers and they wheeled me quickly in for a cat scan. After the cat scan I was put on a stretcher and 4 or 5 nurses were running with me down the hallway to the operating room. In the operating room I was handed the phone and it was my Mom on the other end. The surgeon took the time to call her and explain everything. I said what all sons would say to their mother, and she said what all mothers would say to their sons. I gave them back the phone and they assured me I was going to be ok. I didn't know then I had a 4% chance to survive. Then the mask was put on my face and they operated all night for 13 hours. The next morning a little before noon I came to in the emergency room. There at my bedside was the surgeon and 4 other nurses. They saved my life. They gave it their all and they pulled me through. I lost a lot of blood and the odds were against me but through their efforts and skill, and desire to save me they did almost the impossible. Today when I think about what happened to me I have so many mixed emotions that I've never had before. I feel such gratitude and thankfulness yet also feel an inability to express these feeling to a team of professionalls that gave me another chance to live and experience life. These people are my heroes and I will always be indebted to them for the wonderful job they did for me. This includes everyone from the surgeon, to the follow up doctor who I still see, to the intensive care nurse who stayed by my side day after day, to the physical therapists who helped in the early days, the regular nurses who were always cheerful and professional,to the food therapist who interviewed me several times, and of course to my friends that came and visited me to cheer me on. Its easy to complain about minor things such as an alledged attitude or whatever you might perceive as being not up to your professional standards whatever they might be. But I went through a life changing experience at this hospital and from what I experienced everything they did was to the best of their ability with very high standards. And the cost was about 1/4 it would have been back home, maybe less than that.

you had a close shave - how do you know everything was to the "highest standards?"

"I suggest all the bashers read "What am I doing here?" by Bruce Chatwin, in which one of the articles tells of a Spanish woman who was told by her English doctors that her unborn daughter had no arms and legs, and should be aborted. She chose to have the baby, which was born with the full complement of limbs. Food for thought."

Your getting your arguments confused here - this only supports the basic procedures that are so often ignored or not carried out in Thailand

THe doctors in this case TOLD the patient what they thought the situation was - this is NORMAL practice! - This did NOT happen in THailand

THe patient is then in a position to make a decision.

Now the information they GAVE (not done in THailand) was incorrect so this is a completely different problem - and as you have demonstrated it was discovered and publicized - this is very unlikely to happen in Thailand.

Getting back to the case, there seems to be a lot of info missing. Is this a case of lost face or what? Look at the article;

The fetus was deformed. What was the hospital supposed to do? Is it cultural where you don't tell a pregnant woman she is carrying a genetic mutant? Even if they did advise her, then what? If she was that late in the pregnancy, what was the hospital expected to do? A late term abortion? In Thailand? Yea right. There are too many holes in this report. Before condemning the hospital, I'd like to know the doctor(s) role in this. And btw, why not go after the physician if it was an error? Is it easier to blame a "company" and not a person, although it was a human that made the decision not to advise as to the deformities.

something is amiss here. Courts don't award amounts like this in Thailand unless there is a good reason, and I would like to know the reason.

i think you should read up a bit on modern treatment of pregnancies and the normal or required practices in these circumstances - also you might check out the Hippocratic oath as well

as far as I can see no-one is suggesting the hospital CAUSED the condition - it is a case on negligence - they should have informed the mother - as I said earlier - and I can site more instances of this - Doctors in Thailand are not properly trained to deal with this and many consider themselves above criticism refuse to take advice and like a culture of keeping their patients as ignorant as possible of their treatment. THis way if things go wrong they avoid any comeback.

No sources but it is not unknown in hospitals here for doctors to withhold this sort of info.

e.g.l withheld the fact that a woman's child had Down's Syndrome - saying her local doctor could inform her later.

"Not the Thai way"

This tragedy - sad to say - I believe this is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Thailand medical industry.

It is a shame that it seems to have taken the efforts of someone with a bit of "clout" to suffer at there hands before it comes to light.

It is also unfortunate that many westerners seem to judge a hospital by it's furniture and equipment rather than the nature of the people who work there.

there will be literally hundreds of people who have received treatment in Thai hospitals who leave as happy, satisfied customers – after the stress of being in hospital it is only natural for people to feel relieved when they get out.........however the sad case is that even when all is well they leave with no real idea as whether the treatment they had was the most appropriate, e.g cheapest, only alternative etc........

people rely on doctors and put a huge amount of (sometimes unwarranted) trust in them - when they leave hospital they are told that if they hadn't been treated things could have been much worse - but are they as good as they should be???? - The hospitals rely on the "feelgood factor" and the ignorance of their patience to get away with "blue murder" there are few effective checks and balances in the Thai system and mistakes are either covered up or put down as "just one of those things".

Many will site the scandals in Western hospitals – but these scandals can only occur when there is and EFFECTIVE CHECKING system in place that will reveal such problems – in Thailand this does not happen.

People who buy their shoes too small! Trousers too short, shirts too tight etc etc.......

I read somewhere that 90% of men buy shoes that are too small - they think that "breaking in" shoes is normal - buy a size or half a size bigger and all of a sudden all "chafing" problems disappear.

Watch out for the 22 stone guys on the beach wearing posing pouches - g-strings - except you can't see the strings as they are hidden in the rolls of fat!

If you have a genuine query PM me.

Who said it was funny?

i got my WP in the last few hours and.......... well I won't bother updating such a humourless thread eh?

3 months in a row I've had huge problems with my AIS 3G and nothing but bullshit from the company.

anyone else experienced problems with this service?