lsemprini

TIPS FOR FINDING LONG-TERM (>2yr) THAI HEALTH INSURANCE Here's a public service announcement for long-term expats who want to get health insurance that works in Thailand. I just went through the process and here's some info to save you a lot of time. It's not as hard or costly as I thought, but there are some pitfalls. NOTE: As the forum doesn't let me update the original post after a few days, find the latest version of these tips here: https://slice-of-thai.com/health/ AGENTS: If you want someone to help you, there are several agents that represent multiple insurance companies and make it easy, and as far as I can tell the prices are the same as each other and as retail. One company is AA Insure and I and many other AseanNow forum users found their website FAQ and Bonnie's help very useful: https://www.aainsure.net/index-quote-health-insurance.html Another company with a useful online policy price search feature is Mister Prakan: https://misterprakan.com/th/health/main?lg=en I do not make any money from these links. AVOID SHORT-TERM COMPANIES: First, in farang social circles you'll often hear about travel insurance companies like Safetywing, Heymondo, Caremed, Genko, etc. These companies are not suitable for long-term expats, because at the end of the maximum term for which you can purchase a policy (1 year, or rarely 2 years) you have to re-apply from scratch and any conditions you had during that period become "pre-existing conditions" and not covered! If you are in Thailand for >2 years you need a plan with continuity. Some of these plans also cancel your policy if you return to your home country. LONG-TERM COMPANIES: I will focus on long-term plans below, which means companies like AXA (a French multinational), Allianz Ayudhaya (Thai company), Luma (Thai company), April Group (another French multinational), Pacific Cross (multiple owners over last 10 years: beware), LMG (from Liberty Mutual in the USA: beware), and Bupa Thailand (now owned by Aetna from the USA: major beware) AGE: Most of the long-term providers will let people up to roughly age 65-70 apply (varies by company) and once you are on board they "guarantee" coverage for you typically until age 99, at which point you might be wishing for death anyway. Your yearly premium cost depends hugely on your age (example with one plan: age 25 is 15,750B, age 55 is 32,775B). PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS: Because Thailand has no law against it, pretty much all of the providers refuse to cover any condition you had before applying for the policy, and you are required to declare pre-existing conditions on the application. Different companies demand different levels of detail and number of years back that a cured pre-existing condition may count against you, and a handful of policies require you to get an exam to try to find pre-existing conditions. Companies can refuse to insure you from the start based on your pre-existing conditions. While you can try to hide your pre-existing conditions from them, be aware that the companies frequently request your health records from any hospital you ever visited in Thailand at the time you make a claim, and deny you coverage based on that. So you'd have to switch hospitals to hide your history too, and that might not work either the more computerized things get. Since the companies have you by the balls (because if you cancel or lose your plan, you will have to re-apply at an older age to another company and you may be denied due to your age or, again, pre-existing conditions), it is probably not worth it to lie. So you have to assume that you will never get coverage for any condition you have now, which is both depressing and inhumane, but nothing you can do about it in Thailand. AVOID "INDIVIDUALLY-RATED" PLANS: Another thing that should be illegal is that some of the plans, especially those from Thai companies like Pacific Cross, are "individually-rated," which means the company is free to increase your yearly premium charge by any amount they want next year based on the medical claims you make this year. If this seems completely insane to you and totally defeats the purpose of, or really the very meaning of, "insurance," you're right. Avoid those companies like the plague. You want "community-rated" plans where the companies are legally obligated to charge everyone with the same age the same premium. They can and do still raise premiums of course, but equally for everyone of your age. Fortunately most companies seem to offer community-related plans (especially the non-Thai companies, but you must check the fine print to be sure). Some community-rated plans offer you a small premium rebate in a given year if you have no claims, but that is not the same (it is small and legally bounded in amount). YOU DECIDE: WHICH COUNTRIES? A major difference between plans is which countries you can be covered in if you have medical issues. This is a major component of the price too. The cheapest plans are Thailand-only (and some of those offer coverage of emergencies in other countries). The next more expensive plans include other SE Asia countries other than Singapore. The next level include Singapore and maybe Canada, and so on. Pretty much no plan includes US coverage, where health care and its price is dysfunctional beyond belief. Beware that some plans which claim to be multi-country in their marketing actually only cover emergencies in those other countries, and you must get all regular care in Thailand only. Be sure to read the fine print. YOU DECIDE: CATASTROPHIC OR FULL PLANS? Each policy choice has three main characteristics: a certain per-year or per-disease or per-confinement (depends on policy) coverage limit beyond which the company will not pay another baht (ranging from 500,000B - 10,000,000B) a certain yearly deductible (the amount you must pay before the insurance company starts paying anything) that can range from 0B to 300,000B. most policies give you a choice of IPD-only (inpatient only: covers only stuff so serious that you are confined to the hospital) or IPD+OPD (covers both inpatient and outpatient care). These three factors together have the biggest impact on the yearly premium charge you must pay. I recommend you think about 4 cases when deciding what coverage you need: a) major, complex IPD emergency issues where you are immediately in a hospital bed and cannot fly home: e.g. vehicle accident with major injury, heart attack with complex followup, stroke or brain aneurysm with long care, weird virus that makes you bedridden for a long time, ... these things can easily run you up bills of 3,000,000B-5,000,000B or more, especially at better hospitals. b) major, complex IPD issues where you could fly home: e.g. cancer, most back problems, complex surgeries, brain replacement ... These could run you bills of 5,000,000B or more if you do them in Thailand. c) more minor IPD issues: minor surgeries, elective surgeries, say more in the range of 10,000B-60,000B per visit. d) more minor OPD issues: e.g. weird flus, broken bones, vaccinations, blood tests, ... these are more typically in the range 3,000B-25,000B per visit. For your Thai insurance, you will definitely need coverage of case (a) no matter what, so I would recommend getting a policy with at least 3,000,000B coverage per year/disease, maybe better 5,000,000B. If you have insurance in your home country, you might prefer to do case (b) at home if you trust home medical care technology more and/or can get a better price (or you are from a civilized country with socialized medical care, unlike me). Or if you never want to go back to your home country, you need coverage for case (b) in Thailand too. For case (c) and especially case (d) you might decide that you don't need insurance at all, because they really aren't that expensive compared to case (a) and (b). Based on your choices of case (a)-(d) this will help you decide what coverage level, deductible and what IPD/IPD+OPD you want. Your choice of deductible also depends on your cash flow situation. It makes sense to choose a deductible which is the amount of cash you have on hand, or can rely on a family member to lend you, at short notice. A higher deductible massively reduces your premium payment. Here is one random example of a decision process. I have crappy Obamacare insurance in the US and despite the utter US health system dysfunction and not wanting to go back there, I do trust US doctor skills/technology more, so I would choose to do (b) in the US for my own safety. I can pay for (c) and (d) myself. So I chose a catastrophic-only plan with 5,000,000B coverage, a very high 100,000B deductible and IPD-only and that cost me about 16,000B per year in premium (my age is 51). As a comparison to show you the influence of the factors on price, if my same plan had no deductible it would cost 45,000B per year instead. If my plan had no deductible and IPD+OPD it would cost 65,000B per year. If I chose a different company with more countries covered with all other factors the same, then my 16,000B/yr plan goes up to 34,000B-45,000B/yr depending on company. MOTORBIKE/CAR ACCIDENTS: Be warned that many plans will refuse to cover your vehicle accident if you do not have a valid Thai driver license. Check the fine print. Also, the "universal" Thai accident coverage that comes with vehicle reg (so-called PRB paw-raw-baw พ.ร.บ.) is more or less useless because the coverage amounts are too small. CANCER AND HIV: Be careful that some plans specifically exclude all cancer coverage, especially cheaper plans marketed as "visa insurance." Check the fine print. An insane number of plans still exclude all HIV treatment, which seems barbaric to me and perhaps is a remnant of old prejudices. YOU MUST CHECK THE FINE PRINT. REALLY: This is something you definitely have to do even if you are using an agent. When you are down to your final few choices, request the "policy wording" documents for the plans you are considering (what they call "Evidence of Coverage" in the US). These are long (~30-50-page) documents with often shocking and important exclusions that are not revealed in any of the friendly 2-page brochures. Read it all. I know it's a drag. I know you'd rather be drinking. Read it. It could literally save your life, because it will be the difference between you getting a surgery/treatment you need and not getting it. Don't become another desperate Gofundme case. Read it. WAITING PERIOD: be aware most policies will not cover anything at all except emergencies for a certain period after you are accepted (often around a month) and then will not cover a certain list of typical surgeries for a longer waiting period (say 6 months or so). Read the fine print to see which is which. VISA CONNECTION: Some people who have O-A visas (and in the future probably also non-O visas) must hold a certain kind of insurance to get and keep the visa. Fortunately most of the policies mentioned here qualify, but again, check the fine print. Well that's what I learned. Hope you find it helpful!

Yes, that's the very form she tried many times and no response after 3 days. Just a bunch of computer-generated platitudes like those we get from the IRS and Facebook and other wonderful organizations. There must be some kind of underground way to reach them that is suitably hard to find so as to reduce the support burden to where those cheapskates feel they can afford the support labor cost. As gethuman dot com shows, almost every organization has such an underground method.

How to access them? On my Android (Google Pixel Android 10) I opened Google's Contacts app and looked for several names that only appear in LINE, but didn't see any of them. Is there some other way? My friend's phone (Samsung Android 9) same.

How to access them? On my Android (Google Pixel Android 10) I opened Google's Contacts app and looked for several names that only appear in LINE, but didn't see any of them. Is there some other way? My friend's phone (Samsung Android 9) same.

Does someone know the secret sauce to reaching a human at LINE? My friend's LINE suddenly cut out, failing to log in and all recovery methods say that her recovery email and phone number (which are definitely both correct) are invalid. She is not able to log in at all. Attempts to get support just lead to an infinite, unending loop of b*s bots that say "we'll hurry your support up" but obviously nobody is looking at any of the messages at all. She lost 8-10 years of important contacts. This would be a perfect case for gethuman dot com but sadly they don't list LINE.

Thanks all for the responses, keep 'em coming. I feel we are getting closer to an answer to the key questions for this post given in the OP and especially this post: Given the assumptions above, such as that the house is not grounded in any way initially (not even at the CU), Is the kludge in the OP safer than nothing or not? Either way, is there a better mitigation? What causes the buzzing in the first place? Thanks to SomchaiDIY for the pointer to the analysis of where the buzz come from. The following 2 quora posts add a few more details too: here and here. Also interesting is that of the Apple-original power supplies that have UK plugs, some of them (those with no additional cable, so-called "duck" or "stubby" connectors) do NOT connect ground (which is INSANE) and the one with its own cable does connect ground, and as a result many Apple users with the former type had to manually connect ground with a hacky wire to kill the buzz. One of many examples here and here. And of course Apple attempts to <deleted> and squirm their way out of this on all their official websites and will not replace the defective units for people. As far as better mitigations, for those households that DO have a ground stake at their CU (thus not in the scope of the OP above) it would be good to advise them to run their ground wire to the house's main ground stake rather than create a new stake, correct? For those households that have no ground stake anywhere (the typical case we assume in the OP), can we improve the kludge in the OP? For example, rather than adding a new stake and connecting to that, is there somewhere else we can connect the power supply ground will remove the buzz? How about connecting the laptop case to something (perhaps even the floor of the room)? Would that be any different? I think a few responses above have confused the two different hazards of lightning and faults, as defined above. In normal situations (houses with proper wiring and no kludge) faults are handled by tying the ground to neutral at the CU (because remember the current in faults wants to go back to the generating station, not necessarily to the ground) and the ground stake exists solely to handle lightning (which wants to go to the ground), NOT because of faults, as explained very well at 9:10 in this video (ignore the US-specific stuff about 2 hot phases in this video): However the case of the OP kludge is a little bit special. In the case of the OP kludge, we are putting in a ground stake (the only one on the whole premises) but it is not bonded to neutral (at least not by us: perhaps there is a hidden path through the laptop power supply?). Technically the small voltage/current associated with the laptop buzz wants to go back to the generating station (like a fault), not to the ground (like lightning), but apparently the earth is good enough at soaking up voltage/current because the OP kludge does eliminate the buzz reliably. Given this fact, does that suggest a refinement to the OP kludge that would also work? For the same reason, the OP kludge wouldn't offer any protection against hard faults of 100% mains voltage on the laptop case: the current would flow through the ground wire, through the stake, through the soil (which is very high impedance and thus the current is too small to trip any breakers), to the power pole's ground. Is there a modification of the OP kludge that would actually offer this protection, like a properly-wired house would have? Somehow tie it to neutral? Where?

Fair enough, and I'm sure there are thousands of expats who would make the same choice, but for the purposes of this post I'm referring to the much larger group who are renting and/or unable to make large modifications and/or who don't have access to good electricians or sufficient DIY knowledge. So the relevant questions are (see long post above for important details): For a house with no grounding at all, is the kludge in the OP better than nothing or not, and either way why exactly? And second question is is there a refinement to the kludge that can solve laptop zap in a safer way that is still be practical for the target audience defined above?

Interesting info for the case of multiple ground rods, but see my longer post above...in my scenario there is only one ground rod on premises, the one I added via the kludge (nothing is grounded anywhere on the entire property, not even at the CU, which I gather is the most common case for Thai houses). So the only other ground rod is at the utility pole (I hope). See the long post for more info and questions.

Interesting. How exactly would the "correct" house wiring have prevented that? Did your aircon fry because of a ground potential difference between the two stakes (and if so, why? what was the exact electrical path through stakes and L, N, and G wires that caused the problem?) or was it because in the main house wiring from the main ground stake there is a spark arrestor or some other kind of protective gear that would have protected the aircon? If the latter, that implies that perhaps installing such gear might help the OP kludge be safer.

I'm totally game for that learning curve. I want to learn more about the possible dangers so I can make a realistic assessment of the relative risk of doing the kludge above or not doing the kludge above in a typical Thai household, and also see whether there are refinements to the kludge that can strike a better balance between protecting against as many hazards as possible and also being realistic and practical to achieve in Thailand when most of the people doing it are tourists/expats in rental units (not homeowners with access to high funds and experienced electricians) who are just trying to stop themselves being shocked continuously by their laptops and appliances. It sounds like you're an experienced engineer and of course it makes sense that you would always come back to fully following well-established Western-standard codes as the best solution (I do the same when presented with a Thai-style solution to programming problems and I want to do it the right way that I learned), but this is often simply not realistic for reasons both of us have mentioned above. Put simply, in 95% of cases, we cannot choose between leaving the house as-is or doing a perfect Western-standard job. Instead, out here in District 12, we can choose between leaving the house as-is, doing the kludge in the OP above, or doing a different mitigation of the laptop-shock problem that is within practical possibility. The best we can do is to try to understand the specific hazards of each choice and their reasons/scenarios and find the optimal solution that meets the unfortunate practical limits. That's what I'll try to do below. First, for this discussion, in order to keep the permutations manageable, let's assume that the Thai household has zero ground wires whatsoever (the ground prong of all receptacles is unconnected, and all ground bars in the CU and elsewhere are empty), meaning all laptop/appliance device cases are normally floating (when no fault occurs), and that there is no ground stake anywhere on the premises (only ground stakes in the power poles and other parts of the distribution network as part of the Multiple Earth-Neutral bonded system). I think this represents by far the common case. Second, let's define some terms we can use to be clear about which hazards we are discussing since we kind of mixed them up above: We can use the word lightning hazard to talk about the massive static charge from lightning that desperately wants to flow to ground, and we may need to be specific about sub-cases where the strike is on the lines vs. nearby ground. We can use the word fault to talk about cases where conductors in the house (line, neutral, ground) unintentionally become disconnected or become connected to each other in various combinations that need to also be specified. This category of hazards has it in common that the current wants to flow back towards the generating station (which it may do through wires or the soil in various scenarios) OK, now for folks other than Led Lolly Yellow Lolly who are following along, here are some basics to study and a glossary because sadly many key terms here are completely different in US vs. UK vs. AUS/NZ: Single Phase Electricity Explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0_1xRqT8uU (explains typical wiring of UK/Thai household without assuming any particular Earthing/Grounding System (TN-S, TN-C, TN-C-S, etc.)) Ground, Neutral, and Hot Wires Explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-W42tk-fWc (explains lightning vs. fault hazards, use of ground wires vs. ground rods---ignore the parts about there being two live phases as that is US-specific and does not apply to Thailand) Definition of grounding/earthing vs. bonding: https://electricalapprentice.co.uk/an-introduction-to-earthing-and-bonding/ Explanation of TN-S, TN-C, TN-C-S earthing/grounding systems: https://electricalapprentice.co.uk/an-introduction-to-earthing-and-bonding/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#IEC_terminology Explanation of the Multiple Earth-Neutral bonded system used in Thailand (and Australia and other places), which is a type of hybrid (TN-C outside, TN-S inside) earthing/grounding system that is unfortunately known by several names: Multiple Earthed-Neutral (MEN) in AUS/NZ, protective multiple earthing (PME) in UK (though some sources say PME is slightly different), and Multi-Grounded Neutral (MGN) in US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#Other_terminologies and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#Regulations Excellent explanation of MEN/PME/MGN and its advantages (letting breaker break quickly in a fault situation) and disadvantages (failing to stop dangerous touch voltage in the event the common wire becomes broken): https://medium.com/@Voltimum/the-principles-of-protective-multiple-earthing-pme-c068f2f433ac Longish but useful video about why ground and neutral are connected in main panel and why they are not connected in sub-panels (again, ignore US-specific 2 hot lines): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWf7XTg-wg When Led Lolly Yellow Lolly refers to "L-N bonding" I'm assuming you are referring to how a Multiple Earth-Neutral bonded system calls for bonding neutral and ground lines in (only) the main panel, and/or the potential danger of that system when neutral is disconnected (as discussed under "Open-circut PEN conductor" in the medium article above), is that right? Or are you referring to something else? Ok, with those assumptions and basics now covered, we can get back to the kludge in the OP. Given that we are comparing the assumed Thai house (no grounding/stakes on premises) either with or without the kludge, which of the hazards that you have in mind apply only when we do the kludge? Let's take faults first. Do any of the fault hazards apply with the kludge that would not also apply without the kludge? Suppose the laptop/appliance gets water in or has frayed insulation and faults a live conductor to the case. Without the kludge, the person gets the full live voltage shock that conducts through their body to the floor and soil and back to the nearest power pole. The kludge introduces a new path from the device case to ground (but NOT one which is bonded with neutral as normally done in the MEN/PME/MGN system) and that ground connection may take some of the dangerous current through the soil back to the nearest power pole, since the kludge wire has lower resistance than the person's body. In NEITHER case will the breaker break (due to the high resistance of the soil), so in that sense both scenarios are unsafe. But having the kludge may take away some of the current from the person's body (or at the very least the danger is the same). Is that right? Are there other fault scenarios where there is a big difference with or without the kludge? Second, let's take lightning. Since the kludge involves driving a new ground stake, even worse one without any kind of breaker or other protective device, I could see some possibility for the kludge making things less safe than not doing the kludge. You wrote: I'm a bit confused by this because all the explanations of lightning above describe how the lightning seeks ground as its destination. Why would the charge come back up into the house if it is already at the ground? Especially in our specific scenario---why would it come up through a ground wire to the casing of a laptop/appliance that is not connected to anything else (remember our assumption that the house has no other ground connections on premises) and why would that damage the laptop? Some damage due to capacitance between the case and internal components? So I'm not yet clear on how the kludge could add additional hazard in this case. You mentioned ground differential hazards from various sources. I'm guessing that you're referring to ground differentials between the kludge's ground stake and the nearest power pole's ground stake, is that right? Suppose there is a large ground differential (say, 240-1000V, not the kV-MV of lightning where charge issues prevail). This will create a small amount of current through the soil from kludge stake to power pole. While it's not great, how does that present a hazard to the person touching the case? The person's feet are on the floor of the room, which is presumably nearly identical in potential to the kludge stake just outside the house, right? Or are you actually referring to the difference in potential between the person's feet on the floor and the kludge stake just outside the house? I'm very interested...what are those reasons/scenarios? I'd like to go through them and see if they apply and how likely they are in the OP situation. ---- Another separate but important question is: why do our laptops shock us in the first place? What is the mechanism by which the current reaches the outer case when the laptop's ground pin is not connected to ground? Perhaps if we understood this better, we could come up with a better solution that does not introduce new safety hazards (but still a practical one--please resist the urge to go back to "just wire up the whole house properly" for reasons explained above). Any idea where the zap comes from? Even brand-new laptops do it, so it is unlikely to be caused by faults from worn-out parts inside the laptop that short live lines to the case. Could it be related to the "Perceived Shock" issue of MEN/PME/MGN that is described in the Medium article ( https://medium.com/@Voltimum/the-principles-of-protective-multiple-earthing-pme-c068f2f433ac ) ? I don't quite understand the "Perceived Shock" as they describe it because the potential difference between the ground just outside the house and the floor of a room in the house should be negligible. Or is the laptop zap explained by some kind of "transmission line" effect where components inside the laptop are producing AC EM radiation that somehow induces current in the casing? Seems far-fetched, but if it's true, is there another workaround that doesn't involve driving a stake outside? Thanks!

I don't understand what scenario you are describing here. I would guess that the ground bar in the CU is not connected to anything at all in most Thai houses (I've seen at least some that are that way myself), but either way, what exactly is the path of the potential dangerous current flow that you are warning about (please describe the journey of current from point to point)? does the current path you are describing only exist in lightning situations? are you describing a hazard that would not exist if no devices in the house were grounded at all (i.e. the typical situation where nothing is grounded and people receive constant shocks from their laptops)? are you describing a hazard that would not exist if the ground bar in the CU is completely disconnected? It sounds like you are describing a situation where the dirt containing the kludge ground stake is at a very different potential (i.e. at least 240V and possibly a lot more) than some other surface in the house that a person might be in contact with (in addition to being in contact with the case of the laptop/device that is grounded with the kludge ground stake), but it's not clear exactly what surface and in what situation.

Well in this case there would be only one path to ground, since the laptop/appliance cannot be grounded through the house wiring, and it's fair to assume nothing else in the house is actually grounded at all (except perhaps one shower water heater, which seems to be the only thing that Thai electricians feel they need to ground). Of course it would definitely be better to redo all the house wiring and choose power strips that are truly 3-conductor but that is not always practical, especially for rental units.

Most definitely ... That's why the project includes running the ground wire outside since the house wiring almost certainly won't do so even if the receptacles have 3 holes

Here is a public service announcement for folks whose laptops, refrigerators, toasters or other appliances buzz or electroshock their hands on a daily basis. This happens with many many devices when used in Thailand, in particular devices whose power plugs have 3 prongs instead of 2. To completely and permanently fix this problem, you need to make sure the 3rd prong of your device (the ground/earth prong) is actually connected to the literal ground below your house. If your device's plug only has 2 prongs but your device has a metal case, see below. Thailand makes it challenging to properly ground any device because a) 99% of power strips that have 3 holes DO NOT CONNECT THE GROUND PRONG TO ANYTHING, in order to save money, EVEN if the male end has 3 prongs, and b) 99% of 3-prong plugs in walls DO NOT CONNECT THE GROUND PRONG TO ANYTHING, in order to save money. To fix this problem, you need to do a little project that takes about 15-30 minutes once you have the stuff. COST: The parts cost about 100-500B at a local hardware or electronics store. GROUND LIFT PLUG: You need to get a ground lift plug like the orange one pictured here: Then you need to buy some electrical wire and run the wire from the little ground terminal on the top of the ground lift plug---buy one small bolt/screw and one nut that can fit through that little hole, to make sure the wire has a solid connection--you don't just want to coil the wire haphazardly around the loop without a fastener because your knot will eventually come undone and slip down and short out the power prongs and burn your house down. The secure setup should look like this: WIRE: For the wire, you should choose a thick wire with a solid core, not stranded. In the event that something actually does go wrong with your laptop/appliance (e.g. water getting inside), the full 240V of electricity may end up on the outer case that you touch and you will need a wire thick enough to carry all that current to ground rather than through your heart in order for you to be safe (acknowledging that yes, before you did this project, 100% of the electricity would have gone through your heart). The wire should be at least 16 gauge (at least 1.3mm in diameter not including the plastic insulation, at least 1.3 square millimeters cross-sectional area, which is probably the number you will see in the Thai shop (get 1.5 or 2 sq mm)). The wire should be thick enough that you can mold it and it will keep its shape like a coat hanger (but not quite as thick as most coat hangers). Green color insulation is good because it will remind people that it is a ground wire, but of course any color is ok. STAKE OUTSIDE: Now run that ground wire out of your house to the wettest patch of dirt around your house (being consistently damp is critical for good ground--under a drain that you use every day is good) to a copper ground stake, also available at the same shops. The copper ground stakes already have a handy nut to screw the wire on securely and a handy pointy bottom end that you can drive into the ground with a rock or hammer. Get a stake that is long enough that you will definitely hit some damp soil. Don't be shy, buy the meter long one to be sure. HOW TO USE: Now you can plug your laptop/appliance into the ground lift plug and enjoy non-masochistic operation forever. If you have many 3-prong devices that shock you, you can seek out a real actual 3-hole-3-wire-3-prong power strip (very hard to find in Thailand: just because the male plug has 3 prongs doesn't mean the ground prong is actually connected all the way to the 3rd prong on the female jacks: you REALLY need to test it in the shop with a multimeter to be sure; on Lazada there is really no way to be sure; more expensive makes it more likely but still not guaranteed) and then plug the power strip into the ground lift plug and your devices into the power strip. IF YOU HAVE 2-PRONG DEVICE WITH METAL CASE: You still might be able to solve your problem using a similar trick. Instead of attaching the wire to a ground lift plug as above, attach the wire directly to some screw on the outer metal casing of your appliance. Happy surviving!

Well that is apparently not the case because Thailand Pass clearly says you have to have at least 4 weeks after AZ if you mix doses, so presumably they have some minimum they will accept for AZ+AZ too (but they don't say, hence my question). But anyway thanks for the helpful info about AZ history; good to know. No matter what AZ interval I get, I plan to have Pfizer or Moderna boosters in Thailand (neither is practically available in VN at the moment) so I am less concerned about the effectiveness of the AZ.

Well, you're using logic there, which unfortunately doesn't apply in this situation (note that Thailand has already explicitly said they allow AZ + other vaccines with a 4 week delay). Since it's not 12 weeks for mixed, I doubt the requirement is 12 weeks for AZ+AZ either. But I'd like to find out what it actually is since I will be given doses spaced more closely. By the way, all over Viet Nam (which is where I happen to be now) they are giving AZ+AZ with less than 12 weeks. It seems they are balancing the benefits of more effectiveness at 12 weeks with the benefits of fewer people dying if they can get everyone up to 2 shots more quickly at less than 12 weeks, even if the effectiveness is lower. It's quite a tricky decision to make.

What is the MINIMUM number of days between dose 1 AstraZeneca and dose 2 AstraZeneca that Thailand Pass will accept? Thailand Pass clearly documents that 14 days must pass between the second dose and entering Thailand, but that's not what I'm asking. In Richard Barrow's latest newsletter he got information about MIXED doses from the MFA, which was like this: However, I do NOT have mixed doses --- I have both AstraZeneca. And there seems to be widespread disagreement about the "correct" spacing (the manufacturer says 12 weeks, local doctors here say 5-10 weeks) so I imagine Thailand Pass has their own idea about the "correct" spacing. Does anyone have direct experience with this or seen an official answer about non-mixed AstraZeneca doses from Thailand Pass? Thanks.

Interesting, but how long is a Covid extension? If it's 30 days, then wouldn't that be no better or worse than just using the 30 day extension on a 60 day tourist visa? Or are you saying that if you get a Covid extension in November then that somehow makes you more likely to be able to get more Covid extensions later even after they cancel the Covid extension program for new foreigners coming in?

Right, understood, but this is EXACTLY the kind of traditional constraint that e-visas should make unnecessary. That's the whole POINT of an e-visa---to uncouple the following three things that are unnecessarily coupled together by the obsolete sticker-based visa system: the country where the applicant is physically located at time of application the location of the embassy/consulate best suited to process their supporting documents the country where the applicant will fly from to get to Thailand Because the e-visa does not require the embassy/consulate to physically hold the passport or documents in their hands, that allows Thailand to choose the best embassy/consulate for vetting each applicant and thus get BETTER security against fraud, and also offer the applicant more flexibility about when/where to apply. But it seems Thailand is totally missing out on this advantage in their current e-visa implementation because they are stuck in the past with "long standing rules." Sigh.

Perhaps so, but I see both interpretations as equally likely based only on the text as written (and yes I prefer one interpretation, but I believe both are valid interpretations). If you can quote some other text somewhere that sways it one way or the other, I'm interested in seeing it. They could try that, but if you think about it, IP-based blocking has a fundamental flaw: an applicant could be in a third country at the time that they are filling out the application online, but still legitimately have a ticket from their home country and legitimately plan to fly from the home country. They might not have time to wait until they return to their home country to begin the process online and still make their flight. This alone may make them drop any attempt at IP-based blocking even if they try it at first. But the bigger question is why should they care? As long as the applicant is outside of Thailand at the time of application, why is there any need to tie the application to the embassy/consulate closest to the applicant? That doesn't make any sense for an e-visa system (yes, sorry, trying to use logic with Thai visa process). If they really need local knowledge to vet the visa supporting documents, then OK fine, but in the vast majority of cases if the candidate is in a third country, their home country embassy/consulate will be in a better position to vet supporting documents like bank statements, etc. than the local embassy/consulate. It also doesn't make sense to tie the plane ticket starting city to the embassy/consulate doing the vetting. I think this requirement is yet another vestige of the old system of paper/sticker-based non-e-visas. Oh well.

A clarification, before the sticklers stick... For #2, if third country Y has an embassy/consulate that is participating in the e-visa program, AND that embassy/consulate is open and reachable despite COVID lockdowns, AND they serve foreigners for the particular visa type you want (many embassies/consulates only give certain visa types to citizens of their own country), then you can put country Y in the second box and get the visa that way. My post was about the (probably more common) case when one is temporarily in third country Y and the 3 of the conditions above are not all true.

FYI for those in the same boat... One of the gems contained in the info packet from the Hanoi embassy (see attachments in my post https://aseannow.com/topic/1233300-anyone-got-any-thai-visa-in-vietnam-recently-by-mail-stv/?do=findComment&comment=16858167 ) is that there ARE in fact sporadic $80-150 flights from HCMC to Bangkok every few weeks on Thai VietJet: https://skyfun.vietjetair.com the website really really sucks (lots of technical flaws) and it looks at first like there are no flights (all the dates are greyed out), but if you keep poking on all the dates in Sep and Oct, you will see that there is a flight roughly once per week, and more will pop up in the future. Also, there are flights on Singapore Airlines from HCMC to Bangkok via Singapore and there is no requirement for being vaccinated (only PCR tested). Cost varies $70-$300: https://www.expedia.com/Flights-Search?leg1=from%3AHo Chi Minh City (SGN-Tan Son Nhat Intl.)%2Cto%3ABangkok (BKK - Suvarnabhumi Intl.)%2Cdeparture%3A10%2F19%2F2021TANYT&mode=search&options=carrier%3A*%2Ccabinclass%3A%2Cmaxhops%3A1%2Cnopenalty%3AN&pageId=0&passengers=adults%3A1%2Cchildren%3A0%2Cinfantinlap%3AN&trip=oneway I do not know if I can get from Da Nang/Hoi An to HCMC airport due to lockdowns, but I think people in HCMC can do so if they show their ticket. I also found some flights from Ha Noi to Bangkok via Singapore, more like $300 No flights from Da Nang to Bangkok except for some absurd $1000+ routes through Seoul ?! No flights to Chiang Mai except for some absurd $1000+ routes through Seoul ?!

Curious to see how this e-visa program is used and/or abused for these 3 cases: citizen of country X applying while physically located in country X citizen of country X applying while physically located in third country Y citizen of country X applying while physically located in Thailand It's pretty clear they don't want you doing #3. Doing #3 plus a visa run would be a dodge to avoid the restrictions on visa extensions, and they could probably detect it pretty easily by checking their entry/exit database at the time when you apply. But how about #2? If you visit their site: https://thaievisa.go.th/ and click on "Am I eligible to apply online?" you will see two boxes to fill out: - your passport country - "Permanent Residency/Current Location: Your resident status in a country of which you are granted a residence visa to stay for more than six months." So this means that if you are physically located in a third country but not on a 6+ month visa, then you should put your home country in the second box and (for most countries) this means you can use the e-visa system legally even though you are not currently physically in that country. It will be interesting to see if they stick to their policy as stated above. It's hard for them to actually check where you are physically located, if you are not located in Thailand. If they require you to show a flight ticket from your home country to Thailand (as opposed to from somewhere to Thailand) as part of the visa application process, that would go against the policy above. When I looked on all the screens in the e-visa site manual: https://thaievisa.go.th/static/English-Manual.pdf and also checked the list of required documents for the visa types I was considering (non-O, TR): https://thaievisa.go.th/ (scroll down to "Visa Category" and click each) I didn't see any request to send a scan of flight ticket to Thailand (TR requires a scan of a ticket FROM Thailand, not to). I DID see the form ask for date and port of entry, but not flight and no ticket upload. Step 3 of the CoE application process: https://coethailand.mfa.go.th/regis/step?language=en requires uploading an image of the air ticket, but that is a separate process from the visa application, and on the CoE site they do not specify if the ticket must originate in the same country as the consulate/embassy that is processing it. Actually, if the air ticket that ends in Thailand happens to be from another country, that is not actually anything unusual---it could be a transiting flight. So at the moment I don't see any practical or legal obstacles to using e-visa for purpose #2 above. Certainly there could be a catch, but I don't see it yet.

Perhaps, but at least with the visa one can be guaranteed at least 60+30 days (single-entry TR) or 90+ (non-O) in case those "satisfactory" ways disappear. Also, even with visa exempt, we still have to do the same paperwork and pay costs for CoE, health insurance, ASQ, and find a place for PCR tests. So the visa application itself is not that much extra work as long as we can do it by mail. But for sure it would be much more worthwhile if there was a way to get the 270-day Special Tourist Visa (STV) instead of a single-entry tourist visa. Still checking on that.

UPDATE: I finally heard back from the Hanoi Embassy! I had emailed the address on their website ( [email protected] ) but it appears that [email protected] (only found on some third party websites) might be the actual address that they read. Mr. Tran Ngoc Tu sent me a number of helpful documents about the visa types available, the current situation with flights from Viet Nam to Thailand, CoE application process, and other stuff. They are attached. In particular, they first write "Please come to apply for your visa **IN PERSON** ** ** at the Royal Thai Embassy in Hanoi (85 Ly Thuong Kiet, Hoan Kiem, Hanoi). We do not accept online/ Post submissions" That would be a total game-ender for us because we cannot enter Ha Noi due to strict COVID lockdowns/checkpoints (and also BangkokBaksida cannot even LEAVE Sai Gon due to even stricter lockdowns/checkpoints). ....BUT then they write "For those who do not live near Hanoi city, the Embassy still would prefer that you come to apply for your visa in person. If this really is not possible, then please ask a family member or friend or authorized person who lives in the Hanoi area to submit your application on your behalf." I double-checked with him that we can do that without submitting any kind of additional authorization form. SO we have an option to get the visa if we have a trusted person in Ha Noi to receive our passport and documents and turn them in. Does anyone know a reliable agent who might serve this role? Mr. Tran Ngoc Tu also said it is possible to apply for single-entry tourist visa, non-immigrant O retirement, and STV, but that STV requires "permanent residence," although his document says STV only requires "residence." I am waiting for his response as to whether a TRC is that or not. 19 Visa Application Form.pdf 20 TOURIST VISA- EN.docx 21 INFORMATION- PREPARATION.docx 21 Non O English.doc Special Tourist Visa EN-VIE.pdf