thaigene2

Well I'm not a woman..(I'm a man..and alwasy have been) - felt I'd better add the last bit there just to clarify..since this is thailand

The first place to start to change behaviors is the media. You long-time expats with Thai boyfriends will no doubt be pretty fluent in Thai and probably watch the soap operas here too..so you'll be very aware of the shocking levels of violence aganst women on TV. The soaps here show hi-so guys slapping around their rich GFs and wives. Sometimes it's a slap with a finger wagging.."Khao jai mai! Khao Jai Mai!!" Then she beats the maid.."Ga..Ga.."

This would never be acceptable on European or American/Canadian TV.

Remove the violence against women and vulnerable groups from TV and you're heading in the right direction..

As mentioned the BBC story was a good 8 to 10 years ago..could be wrong. But I doubt it mate..

No, it was in 2000. You may care to read Oxford was right, says Laura, and then look at the background articles. The follow-up articles show that the state-sector proportion at Oxbridge had dropped to around 53%, not 30%, a fall from my day.

as for your quote above..I rest my case 'guv'..your 'don' is almost certainly correct - enjoy your success Tim. Do you even dare to suggest that most Brits are simply out of the running not by lack of IQ but through lack of pedigree?? Do you dare, sir?

In so far as there is a social barrier, it's mostly a lack of confidence - 'People from here don't go to Oxbridge'. (My school sent someone to Oxford or Cambridge most years.) Those who don't apply don't get in. Don't forget that some of the people who get AAA may well have been expected to get BBB, so may not have been encouraged to try for Oxbridge anyway.

The news report I refer to was a Today Programme piece (Radio 4) around 8 to 10 years back. I wasn't making reference to Laura Spence at that point. I can't find it via Google..it may be too old or not archived.

Anyway, let's agree that the latest reports are correct - that it's around 50-50 now. The same reports also say that private schools account for only 7% of UK pupils - and it's probably even less here in Thailand. So the best of those 7% (an artificial creation since only those who can afford to go are there in the first place) are accounting for 50% of the university places - and not just any universities but the TOP university places, and then go on to get the top jobs (most recent news reports talk about them landing top media jobs..but I suspect it would be the same in the 'professions'.)

Anyway, the point here is that when you create an artificially elite structure in UK or Thailand or anywhere, you are ignoring the potential of all those others out there. Have a look at the 20th june on line letters page at the Independent about response to the elite journo 'scandal'.

Do you really think that an ox-bridge educated person is automatically better than a job candidate from a lesser-known university who attended a state school? Would WHERE he attended sschool be your first criteria?

Weigh the risks. You're more likely to get your house robbed while out with tilac, than you are to get mugged while out with tilac. They watch you leave..As for potential muggers, she'll fight em off, don't worry mate..she'll fight hard to protect her investment!!

How do the Thais tolorate this?

They don't tolerate it - it doesn't bother them.

Good answer!

They don't tolerate it and in fact less than we do. While we wring our hands, they get on with the job. That's why the problem dog seems to disappear shortly thereafter 9usually within a couple of weeks).

As for Skipper..since they are at the Wat, you're probably stuck with it mate. At least the thunder storms may drown them out for awhile - get to sleep during the rain !!

Oh come on..Who cares? If this was the US they'd probably already know who we are. Wait a minute they probably do anyway..and it's not the US. Have you said anything subversive? Computers auto-track your remarks and flag them for their officers. Thailand almost certainly knows who you are.

I like the country, I criticize it, and point out the unfairness of the ethnic class divide. They don't care..and probably laugh at it. Cause they know only educated thais and farangs read this anyway..like the BKK Post..think your going to cause a revolution among ordianray thais fighting back. These guys are laughing even harder now!

But the US probably will refuse you entry..he, he..

Oxford and Cambridge have long complained that 'A' levels are not discriminating enough. I remember one of the dons telling me that entrance examination papers were marked impressionistically - precise, mechanical marking was reserved for 'scholarship' candidates, where marking had to be 'fair'. For the others, the examination was effectively a continuation of the interview.

Richard

As mentioned the BBC story was a good 8 to 10 years ago..could be wrong. But I doubt it mate..

as for your quote above..I rest my case 'guv'..your 'don' is almost certainly correct - enjoy your success Tim. Do you even dare to suggest that most Brits are simply out of the running not by lack of IQ but through lack of pedigree?? Do you dare, sir?

Please explain the difference? Do you really think there's an official definition of "grade A" or "grade B" condos? Eggs in the US, perhaps, but not condos - anywhere.

Hi backflip

Yes, there is a definite difference. It's officially either an A Grade development or B Grade. A Grade means higher quality construction. You only find out when you ask. But ask someone who knows - not the cute girl in braces. Though you could always offer to educate her over dinner!

There is a big difference. I'd like some of the developer types to respond here. The developer is required to declare (or the municipality or amphur decides by the plan) as to they type. This is crucial to the price you pay. If you are paying 70,000 ++ for B Grade you are paying WAY TOO MUCH!!

I don't understand what you guys see in View Talay anyway. We rented one of the condos from the management office for a couple of days because we wanted to stay at Jomtien for a change (with kids).

Judging from the Agent's office window, dozens and dozens of these joints were up for resale (don't know which number it was 1 or 2 or 3 whatever). Many looked like they had been for sale for a few years, including the one we stayed in for a couple of days.

I'll bet it's even harder to shift these places now.

The owner had done a reasonable job of decorating etc..but these buildings are huge depressing blocks..I believe they are "B" Grade too aren't they? Why anyone would pay 70000-72000 Baht per SQ M for a B Grade building is incredible (to me anyway). Silly money.

I agree the old View Talay buildings were hardly beautiful. Each iteration of the View Talay model is always a step up and now with beachfront property. As they say in real estate location, location, location!!

It's true I haven't seen the most recent re-creation..and yes I saw the ad that it is (apprently) at beach front..but it is still B Grade right?? What about Northshore is that A Grade? Just curious..if anyone knows

I agree with old Sarge..

Thailand doesn't have a monopoly on this. It is the same in the UK too..in fact the British may well have perfected discrimination by pedigree.

The BBC, about 10 years ago, reported that fewer than 10% of British parents sent their kids to Private Schools - yet those kids made up 70% of University entrants. In other words, even though 90% of the kids went to state-run high schools they only accounted for 30% of University students (or less, since I'm not sure if they counted foreign students in the Universities in the calculation).

Then there was an infamous story about five years ago, where a girl from the North of England with straight 'A's in all academic subjects was denied a place at Oxford or Cambridge - can't remember which one. She didn't pass 'the interview' stage - it was alleged - because of her northern accent (in the UK, private schools make a point of teaching the kids to sound 'posh' so that there is an immediate distinction when someone opens their mouth at a job/university interview). These young people then go on to get all the best jobs.

Of course this then means that the UK and Thailand aren't fully exploiting the talents of their young people - because they virtually ignore 70-90% of the bright people.

The result? These are societies that work well below their potential..and why the UK for example always seems to be 14th in all the international league tables from productiveness to standard of living, etc. - even though it is one of the seven most powerful economies on earth.

Same-same for Thailand I'm afraid as long as this artificial class division between rich hi-so's and the rest of Thais exists. Your daddy can be the richest guy in the world and you can attend the best universities in the world (probably with lots of tutors and a bit of cash to get others to write your assignments and dissertation) but it won't increase your IQ!

Attitude, attitude..No wonder you want to sell..I think you're in the wrong business. Sorry no more time for you..

I don't understand what you guys see in View Talay anyway. We rented one of the condos from the management office for a couple of days because we wanted to stay at Jomtien for a change (with kids).

Judging from the Agent's office window, dozens and dozens of these joints were up for resale (don't know which number it was 1 or 2 or 3 whatever). Many looked like they had been for sale for a few years, including the one we stayed in for a couple of days.

I'll bet it's even harder to shift these places now.

The owner had done a reasonable job of decorating etc..but these buildings are huge depressing blocks..I believe they are "B" Grade too aren't they? Why anyone would pay 70000-72000 Baht per SQ M for a B Grade building is incredible (to me anyway). Silly money.

The way I see it, if you don't trust your wife to own land/house and act in the best interest of you and your children then you are only going to have problems trying to cut her out of controlling your shared property.

...However, she will have absolutely NO problem cutting you out since it is not at all shared property. It's her property and her's alone..A lease is a false sense of security..let's be honest.

You either just bite the bullet and put the thing in her name and stay on the sweet side of her (which you should do anyway)..or rent..or buy an over-priced condo. Those are your options guys. Let's l,earn to live with it and move on.

Court proceedings, and if you are working, "attachment orders" are first. This is reality, as my brother in law has just received an attachment order for debt. The house being worth more than the loan means nothing. They have to sell it first. Not easy! Property Law has been my speciality for nearly 30 years and thus all my posts are from "a legal perspective".

Dragonman

Was your brother-in-law the principal borrower or the guarantor?

Also many Western women find it hard to adjust to the 'female competition' around them..I'm serious .. and not being snide..it's a real issue for some families that causes mistrust, paranoia, etc..

That quote got me thinking....and counting. In the 12 or so years I've lived here, I've known 29 couples that were farangs married to farangs...and 2 of these ended in divorce. That's really not that bad, is it? You might even say Thailand is good for marriage.

I've known 16 couples that were farangs married to Thais...and 2 of these ended in divorce. Not that bad either.

None of my Thai friends married to Thais have gotten divorced.

For those couples not married (farangs or Thai-farang couples), some have split up.

Still, those numbers don't really bear out that old stereotype about Western women finding it hard to adjust, do they?

Misty,

I didn't say anything about ending in divorce, I just said it's a real issue for some people, that's all. It can cause resentment.

So back to the schools issue Thaipwriter..Does your friend know the ratio of English to Thai (assume this a Thai-English bilingual school)? Frankly the visa issue is minor compared to choosing the right schools for his kids.

In the bi-lingual school that one of our kids attends, the ratio is only 1/3 English and 2/3 Thai. And it's a hi-so bilingual school. A bit of an uphill struggle for your friend's 10-year-old (but certainly not impossible to overcome). THis was okay for us since our kids were born here. I'd be interested to know if the raio is much different at this other school..and where it is, etc.

The bi-lingual schools promote the farang teachers a lot in parent interviews and 'class viewings' (they sort of trot them around) but in reality most of the teaching is done in Thai. He should bear in mind the bi-lingual schools are required to follow the Thai Ministry of Education curriculum. I believe (but could be wrong) the international schools have no such requirement.

My wife was offered a mortgage by Bangkok Bank with me as guarantor. She does not work! There was no mention of any BoT regulations.

Yes, I thought it was unlikely..but that's what I was told on more than one occasion. It's probably a face-saver to get the farang out of the office! However, if anyone has seen this supposed-regulation perhaps you could post it (that foreigners allegedy can't be guarantor's of a Thai mortgage/loan).

Let's say a house is purchased in the Thai wife's name, with a mortgage from a bank guaranteed by the foreign husband (as I found the banks here normally insist upon). The marriage fails, the wife's family move in, the foreign husband moves out, the wife refuses to sell the house, the mortgage payments stop (as they were coming from the husband).

What does the bank do next? Do they try to re-possess the property before going after the guarantor? What if the guarantor simply refuses to pay anything?

In the West I think the bank would simply re-possess the property, sell it, and then give the proceeds to the wife (as she is the owner). But a few years ago a lawyer here told me no, they go after the guarantor for a long long time before they consider trying to re-possess. Anybody know? How liable is the guarantor in these circumstances? What powers do the banks have to force the guarantor to continue the mortgage payments?

It's been my experience that most banks and finance companies won't accept a foreginer as the guarantor. In the few times that I've enquired (SCB, Kasikorn for a mortgage and a few car dealers when thinking about getting a new car), I was told that the guarantor must be Thai. In two places (a bank and a car dealer) I was told it was a BOT regulation.

But I have farang friends who have managed to guarantee mortgages in their wife's name. However these Thai women had work experience in offices etc.

When you think about it, why would a bank be willing to offer a mortgage to some foreigner who could literally fly away at any time leaving a Thai wife who may have only a grade 6 education, no job, and no prospects of getting one that would cover the 20 or 30,000 baht a month required?

Check the the "Pinned" post at the top of this Forum - it tells you about the Visa categories. I'm not an expert but I've lived here on both B and O Visas. And now have a work permit through an employer. The latter one, the O Visa, is usually for foreigners supporting a Thai spouse.

But there is some rule about having a monthly income. Think rainman is right about the investment in a biz - 1 million sounds right to open a LTD Co. I think..again check with others.

Also when I had the B Visa they didn't expect anything other than you were coming and in and out to do biz..So there was no requirement to show income, since you were only here for 3 months at a time maximum (B visa for a year though) but this may have changed. You have to do visa runs of course..a hassle but no big deal really. And yes you're right they don't give a rat's arse that you have a Thai family. The laws aren't geared to take 'real' thais into account just the rich ones who aren't real thais..if ya get it..

Don't know that helps but..

Assume he knows how much the schools will cost. Around 10,000 USD per kid. There is really no other choice for his older kid..the younger one might be able to go into a Thai-English bilingual private school. That's about half the price. I've seen some guys who thought they could manage the costs involving schools, or who thought they'd find alternatives, but eventually they had to pack it in..it was just too expensive and their employers weren't going to pay school subsidies..

Also many Western women find it hard to adjust to the 'female competition' around them..I'm serious .. and not being snide..it's a real issue for some families that causes mistrust, paranoia, etc..

I've looked into this before in BKK. Had a series of discussions with one of the bigger companies (Standard or Sun - forget which), and like so many other frustrating nonsensical things finally had to give up on the idea. Like you we had some stuff but not much..

The devil is in the detail of course. The clauses basically said that you WEREN'T covered if a maid, driver or someone you let into your house ripped you off. This is why Thais always watch someone (like a repairman or whatever) every second that they are in the house.

Also if you go away (forget for how long) and leave the house unattended you were also stuffed. This is nuts of course, because if you arrange for someone to housesit and you get ripped off your screwed, but if you leave the palce empty and it gets tipped off you're screwed..

There comes a point where you just have to add the pros and cons and see whether it's even worth the bother. We decided it wasn't..but let me know if you ffind a policy that is better.

I think that the Thai lawmakers, who brought in the law that land is not to be sold into foreign ownership, were wise to to protect their society/nation/country against the danger of richer foreigners coming in and exploiting Thai land.

I'm sure only very few would argue with that..

I also think that allowing a way of individual foreigners, who are committed to Thailand to the extent of wishing to reside in it, to have the use of one residential plot for their lifetimes is also sensible. But it makes sense to retain the means of stopping this if it were to 'get out of hand'.

I think this is what we're all saying Martin. Again no argument. Why not allow foreigners married to Thais to have a 50/50 split in freehold of ONE principal residence? Any other residences, like a beach home etc, or investment property, and then the Thai has to own 100%. That wouldn't drive up prices. In Cyprus I recall the rule was that foreigners could own house but they had to live in it...they couldn't rent it out. Sensible I thought.

But I doubt it will happen here. There is a racial undertone to the whole thing. The economy and politics are controlled by an elite group that don't like us and see us challangers to their little fiefdoms.

Here is what they really meant to write (Sub-edits in CAPS)....

Gambling will land you in jail, police told

BANGKOK: -- The police chief yesterday vowed to punish all officers found to be involved in illegal football gambling IN DENS WHERE HE WASN'T RECEIVING A KICK BACK.

"National Police chief General Kowit Watana has ordered all commanders to keep an eye on their subordinates during the World Cup tournament," said police spokesman Lt-General Ajiravid Subharnbhesaj yesterday.

Ajiravid said the police chief had called for maximum punishment, including criminal charges, against rogue officers found to be behind football betting rackets.

Meanwhile, Provincial Police Region 9 will closely monitor the movement of suspicious Malaysian visitors in the southern border provinces to determine whether they are acting as agents for bookmakers from the across the border, he said. THE SOUTHERN PROVINCES ARE ALSO KNOWN TO BE AREAS WHERE FOREIGNERS INFILTRATE, THEY ARE TO BE WATCHED IN ANY EVENT, AND GAMBLING IS HARDER 'TO CONTROL' THERE.

Malaysia has legalised football betting.

Metropolitan Police said yesterday that they had rounded up 25 people they suspected of gambling on football matches, including four they suspect of being bookmakers AND WHO HAD DEFIED WARNINGS BY OFFICERS THAT THEY NEEDED TO ENSURE THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT MEMBERS 'WERE AWARE OF THEIR ACTIVITES'.

Police said that during the operation they seized lists of bets placed worth more than Bt200,000 as well as Bt6,400 in cash AND ANOTHER B75,000 IN CASH THAT WAS NOT REPORTED.

They also said they checked on 122 entertainment venues and 114 other places where football gambling might have taken place, and that they had conducted an awareness campaign against betting at 173 public places WHERE AN UNDISCLOSED AMOUNT OF TEA MONEY WAS PAID AND EVRYONE WAS SABAI-SABAI BY THE END OF THE AWARENESS RAISING EXERCISE.

Thaible

You know Mobi D'Ark is right. So are others. You've really got some wind up your little black University skirt don't you? (Sorry Betty Boop).

You are either not a Thai at all, or you have some huge chip on your shoulder about getting ripped off by a farang here - or maybe abroad?

You need to understand how this makes us all laugh - quite a bit actually! I get charged twice as much to get my hair cut as the Thai guy sitting next to me. I can read the sign..it says 70 baht for haricut and shave. But she charges me 120 baht. She tries to tell me it says something else..but you know I just pay it. She's ripping me off and making me lose face every time. But she's a nice lady..and she gives me a good haircut so I don't care. She knows that I know but I smile anyway.

So Thaible...who's getting the haircut in this forum. Is it you? Or is it us?

I'd like to personally apologise to you for any wrong-doing a farang has done to you in the past. You know why? Because that's just the way I am - and if you are indeed a Thai, then I live in your country and I'm grateful to live here. I married one of the most beautiful flowers of your country and we have had beautiful kids here. Why you would begrudge me the right to jointly own a house with my Thai wife is rather sad..and that's where you lose face.

I really don't think even 1% of the farangs who live here are involved in real estate development - and certainly not to 'buy land to sell back to thais' - where do you see that happening my friend? You keep saying this..we just don't get it pal..

Why not spend your energies on helping poor Thais gain property rights? TRT said they would do so..or was that just another smoke screen?? I'd support them..and this isn't my country as you pointed out. But I'd do so anyway..just becuase I like Thailand and Thai people.

Thailand is for Thai People. It doesn't matter about where the ancestors came from.

Whew..Thanks Chinachampion. That's a relief. So then I guess it's okay for my Thai-Farang son to marry your Thai-Chinese daughter then..Or better still, maybe she would prefer my wife's Thai-Lao nephew? He's becoming a monk soon..but ya know he'll be available in a few months.

Glad to know that they're all Thai and 'it doesn't matter where the ancestors come from'

I have a slightly better idea - howabout we encourage REAL investors such as Toyota to build factories here that employ hundreds of Thai people to create goods that can actually be exported to the rest of the world, while learning technical skills so Thailand can create its own car company someday.

You mean the same way you encouraged other foreign companies to come here and do business?

Like that American guy who partnered with a very famous Thai telecoms thai-coon only to find himself ripped off and kicked out of the country after sharing his technology??

Or Carlsberg Beer that came here to develop Beer Chang, with the only return expected by the Thai partner that he market Carlsberg too? Gee, that Thai - the richest guy in Thailand - must have 'misunderstood' the contract..or perhaps Carlsberg didn't understand Thai values?

Yeah, the only 'technical skills' most of your friends above have learned is bok lok falang (skin the falang)..no I don't need my Thai wife to translate, thank you very much.

By the way Thaible, you understand and write English quite well. That means education..and that means money..Is Khun Pho a Jao Pho (chinese godfather, usually in big provincial towns)? Did he care about ordinary 'Thai' people? Or just his friends in Ang Yi (chinese secret societies)?

Farangs only ask for a transparent and level playing field here in Thailand, free of Ang Yi and Guanxi-style syndicates.

Your right about one thing, we are pretty gullible. We take people on face value and believe the rule of law should take precedence - strangely that's a little like what you're arguing for in enforcement of property laws. Why so many Western companies keep coming here to do business with the 10 or 12 big oligarchs is beyond me. I guess we just never learn..