tonititan

At first I felt sorry for the Mr mak mak but even a blind man would notice the difference. Smell and touch still being available to the blind. It must be a very severe handicap. Poor fella. It is a wonder he can type.

Or...........maybe his preferences and personal opinions are just different than yours. People are allowed to have preferences. Shocker, I know.

Very simplistic viewpoint but highly inaccurate as westerners in Thailand are merely tolerated as long as they have money whereas the west allows foreigners to live in their countries with rights akin to those of home grown nationals. Thailand offers nothing.

You may be right, but I think it's important to remember that Thailand does not = The West. And that's exactly why a lot of people seem to come to Thailand. A lot of people on these forums talk about how they are sick of all the government involvement, rules, and oversight in the West. They like they can do what they want over here in Thailand, and nobody bothers them or gets too involved in their business. If they want to come to Thailand to escape the "oppression" of the West, then they really can't expect Thailand to offer the same things as the West, such as in the case of immigrants' rights. There's always a trade-off, and for most westerners, living in Thailand is a choice.

The other day i was talking to a falang bar owner about thai/falang relations and he said the thai's look at us like we look at the muslim community in our own country and that we are 2nd class citizens.

I think maybe you were getting a little too literal with your arguments. In a way, I get what the guy was saying, in the sense that we are the outsiders who have come to a new country and are possibly starting to influence the traditional ways. In a lot of western countries, the residents are downright nasty towards immigrants....I don't necessarily expect Thai people to be radically different towards me as an immigrant.

I just want to say it does happen okay lets not deny that.

I don't believe I ever said that it doesn't happen. I don't think anyone would deny that it does. My post was in response to an over-generalization about ALL women. I can't figure out why your other post isn't showing up here. I got an email notification, but the post doesn't show up. That happened with someone else's post as well. In any case, in that first post you mentioned women wanting guys' money & a free ticket to the west. Just FYI...that's not what this thread was supposed to be about at all. This forum is largely directed to foreign women, so I was asking about their beliefs on money....not making any statement about the frequency in which it happens with Thai women.

In all seriousness, though, you didn't specify where you will be going in Thailand. Assuming Bangkok, I suggest that you check out some of the bars on Sukumvit 11 - Cheap Charlie's, The Australian Bar, etc. Or, try the bars along Khao San Road if you're looking for other young tourists.

North America.

Can you be more specific? I lived in North America for most of my life, and I came across very few English women.

As for the security issue regarding men and marriage, well I also think its more than just down to poverty. Culturally, many girls are taught that their only asset is their looks and their only way out is via a man rather than their own strength and intelligence.

I definitely agree. That's what I was getting at (or trying to, lol) when I mentioned cultural issues. It seems that in some cultures, the women feel like their "job" is to look good, and they don't even know that they have the option do anything else other than being a housewife. I feel feel fortunate that my friends and I have the choice to have a career, be a stay-at-home wife/mother, or even do both!

It seems like lately I have seen so many comments by male posters that imply or explicitly state that women (not just Thai women) only want want a man with money, that the reason women all over the world get married is for money and to improve their financial standing, that women and sex "cost" a lot even if you are dating/married, or some other variation of the same. It's unfortunate that men have had bad experiences and feel this way, but I have to strongly disagree with the statements that "all" women (including western women) are primarily looking for financial security in a man.

I'm curious about other ladies' honest opinions and experiences when it comes to money. Personally, I have always been the breadwinner in my relationships, and men have cost me a lot of money. And I am certainly not rich - just average. The men I've dated have made slightly less than me, or they've been downright poor. I didn't "choose" to date guys without money, just like I wouldn't "choose" to only date guys who have a lot of money. It just happened to be that the men I've liked didn't have money. But that didn't matter to me, because they had so many other qualities that I loved. An asshol_e with money is always going to be an asshol_e, so I'd choose the nice, honest, loyal, caring poor guy anytime. Some girls may be attracted to power and money, but I'm not. Sure, dating guys with very little money can cause challenges, and I'll admit that it can be frustrating at times when my partner can't afford to do fun things or travel. I'll also admit that if I could engineer the "perfect" man, of course he would be at least financially stable to support himself because it makes life easier. But I wouldn't reject a man solely because of his finances, and I wouldn't intentionally seek out a man with a lot of money.

I do realize that there are many women around the world who, because of their lack of opportunities for education/careers or the customs of their culture, are forced to consider a potential suitor's finances in order to improve their quality of life. If I was living in poverty in a place where there were no opportunities to support myself or improve my life without a man, of course I would want to marry a man who could help me have a better life. But that doesn't mean that ALL women in the world do the same. I think that some men believe that it's an innate characteristic of women to look for men for financial reasons!

What do you say ladies? Is money something you consider when choosing a mate? Would you reject a man who is poor? Do you usually date men who are above, below, or at your same financial standing?

I agree with the others who have said that just because you have preferences for a certain type of partner, that doesn't make you racist, as long as you are not nasty towards the races that you don't prefer. Living here, it's obvious that many western men prefer Asian women. I've never once considered those guys to be "racist." Similarly, I am not really attracted to most East Asian men (especially Thai) at all. I don't consider myself a racist - it's just my preference. If I met an amazing Thai man who possessed all of the qualities I was looking for in a man, sure, I'd consider dating him. I wouldn't automatically discount him because he's Thai, but I probably wouldn't ever start pursuing a Thai man because I probably wouldn't feel that instant attraction. As a Caucasian, I'm also not attracted to the blue eyes, blond hair kind of guy. I would much rather date a Hispanic, black, west Asian, or Arab-looking man. Just like most people, I like what I like, and I think that's ok. I'm not going to go around bashing and degrading Thai and Scandinavian-looking men just because I'm not attracted to them.....that might be racist.

I don't get it. If they were being 'rescued', why did most of them have to 'flee' ?

They probably panicked because they knew they were illegal in the country, and they were scared of the consequences. The article said that they snuck into Thailand after their parents were contacted by an agency. I'm sure they didn't want to be sex slaves, but they probably didn't want to end up in Thai jail either. And I wouldn't be surprised if they don't trust anyone now after what has happened to them. Hopefully those who fleed were able to get away to a safe place, and they are able to return home or figure out a way to safely/legally stay in Thailand.

Police concluded by promising that all of the victims will undergo mental health rehabilitation and receive further care, in line with an international treaty, as soon as possible. Unquote.

I wouldn't place much store on the promise of a Thai policeman. I hope that work commensurate with their abilities is found for these ladies but I fear deportation may be their lot.

I agree Bagwan. I have no idea what they are referring to, and I work in mental health. Sounds dodgy.

I would think that they mean that the girls will receive counseling. That doesn't sound "dodgy" to me to expect that victims would receive counseling/therapy.

I may be a little 'slow' here but to me an intern is someone who has graduated from uni and is working in an hospital to finish their training as a doctor.

Who would come to Thailand to become a doctor?

Do you really think that all interns are training to become doctors, or is this a joke?

You can be an intern in almost any field - teaching, business, law, etc. She never said anything to indicate she was in the medical field.

If asking about re-entry permits not sure of there hours - used to be 24 hours at old airport when allowed but have seen at least one report of it being less now.

I thought I had heard that re-entry permits are no longer issued at the airport, and that you have to go to the immigration center in town to get them. Anyone know?

Another thing about career etc. - I work for an American multinational, locally hired, assistant manager, we have had presence in AP for 25+ years now - represented in almost every country in Asia now (except Afghanistan, Laos etc). I came in through the doors in Bangkok first time as a consultant back in 1996. I see a clear trend. The markets were run with twice as many expat American, European or Australian full managers 15 years ago as they are now. The whole Asia Pacific region is the same. We very clearly favour recruitment in-house and we clearly favour "local" Asia. Local = any race / mix with minimum part local upbringing and perfect written and spoken local language – not talking about western upbringing with degree in South-East Asian studies whatever and written and spoken local language here

The most common career path is local Asian recruited as supervisor or assistant manager, mentored for 2 - 6 years, then STA 1 year (short time assignment), then promoted to grade 12. Then there's a 50/50 between recruit local Asians from companies like PWC, Deloite, 2 - 3 years then STA and - Asia assignment for western manager from Europe, America or Asia. The westerners coming to Asia are always pretty senior – they have done the main bulk of their career in Europe (Australia is a little bit of an exception for us, part of AP). The senior management team has the same trend, only have 2 westerners now, haven't had a western GM since early 2000

I think this trend will stay, there are sooo many very talented "local" Asians to choose from, why choose someone who doesn't have full understanding of the 2 cultures? The cost is more or less the same as westerners but they work smoother and more efficiently here

This may all be true, but I think it's important to keep in mind that when it comes to careers, there's a lot more out there than being managers for large companies. This guy's kids are 7 & 11. It's way to early to know which career they will choose, and with some careers, it might make more sense to be educated in a western culture/school. Unless I missed something, I didn't notice him say that he was necessarily grooming his kids for careers as top managers.

I also agree that if your goal is for your kids to stay and work in Thailand and work in large companies at a level below the expats (full managers as you say) , then a local school will be fine.

You beat me to it as I was typing out my long post. Agreed!

I agree that it depends on your definition of "catching up." If you mean being able to socialize with peers, participate in school, and in general, "get by" in school......then yeah, maybe a child could catch up in a year or two. When kids obtain these social language skills, it sure looks like they've picked up the language quickly. But have they really "picked it up?" If you're talking about the child being proficient in the language for academic purposes, truly understanding and participating in the curriculum, and using Thai for higher-level cognitive tasks, then it will most likely take much longer. There's research in the field of 2nd language acquisition that shows that while you may be able to acquire social language in 1-2 years, it takes at least 5-7 years to develop academic language. And that is in an "optimal school environment" - a lot of schools and teachers are not optimal. (For a good place to start in looking at this research, look at the BICS-CALP model).

Personally, I wouldn't want my child to merely "get by," I would want her to excel to the best of her abilities. Having worked in schools in various countries, I've also seen how isolating it usually is for the new student who doesn't speak the language. So if at all possible, I probably would not place an 8, 10, or 12 year old in a school that uses a different language unless the child already has a foundation in that language. They would just be missing too much, especially in the first year or two when they are trying to learn the language, while missing out on academic instruction that they cannot understand.

It's not an easy solution. Do you think you'll stay in Thailand forever, go back to Scandinavia, or possibly go to a new country? And do you envision your kids going to university in Thailand, your home country, or somewhere else/ I would recommend really thinking about those things before you make your decision. If you think you'll stay in Thailand forever, and your kids will most likely attend a Thai university, then obviously it's a good idea for your kids to be fluent in Thai. However, I fear that dumping them straight into an-all Thai school would be too difficult, so maybe the suggestion you already got for a bilingual program (or a Thai school with an English program....since your kids already know some English) would be good, because at least your kids know some English. Maybe as their Thai starts to get better than their English, they could transition to a Thai school. Or, if you want to go with an all-Thai school, I second the suggestion to get them some intensive Thai lessons (not just conversational Thai, but academic Thai) before they start school. This will lessen the disadvantage they will be at when starting school. If you think you'll end up in a 3rd country where your kids will most likely end up learning in English, or if you might like your child to end up at an English-speaking university, then it's probably a good idea to foster the English now, and it's not necessarily to the kids' benefit to learn in Thai for just a few years. An international school may be best. If you think you'll go back to Scandinavia some day, well that's even trickier, since the kids most likely won't continue their education in Thai there, but they might not study in English either.

I think that the most important thing to do is make sure that your kids have at least ONE strong language - a language in which they are fluent, can communicate effectively, can use as their point of reference, and have advanced academic knowledge. Speaking from a language development perspective, the worst thing would be for the kids to have a little bit of Thai, a little bit of English, and a little bit of your native language, but not a lot of any one language. Those are the kids who seem to struggle the most throughout school, university, and possibly life.

Best of luck to you and your family as you make these tough decisions.

Denying access to money, maybe the lazy cow should go out and earn some herself.

Yeah, but if she makes money, he won't have her under his thumb anymore. He probably likes it the way it is.

On a related note: It's funny to me when I hear of men who meet Thai woman and rave about how great it is having a traditional wife, who cooks/cleans/shops/does laundry/raises the children/etc. You know, "the way it should be"...... and dam_n those feminists who want to be equal to a man, and then god forbid, expect the man to help around the house. These men recognize that they are expected to financially provide for the woman in exchange for all of the "duties" she performs. Some guys will even admit that the relationship is largely about money, but they are happy to be the breadwinner so that they can have this good traditional wife that they want. But then eventually....................oh, she doesn't have a job....what a lazy cow. And then if there's a divorce......she shouldn't get a cent of my money, SHE never worked a day of our marriage.

Studies show that the average home schooled 8th grader performs four grade levels above the national average. .

Wow, I have never heard that before. Do you have a reference or a source for any of these studies? I'd like to take a look.

I am interested in finding up to 5 other children,whose parents who would be interested in employing a teacher to run a home school.If we all chipped in just 10,000baht a month I'm confident we would get exactly the type of teacher we would want for our children , the curriculum we wanted used and any thing else we thought in the best interests of our children.

Did you find anyone? I'm assuming that you're talking about a foreigner teacher, right? Personally, I would seriously doubt that you could find a highly-skilled, qualified teacher who was capable of designing an entire at-home program and teaching all subjects, and getting curriculum materials, all for 60,000 bath/month.

I don't know if they'd take it, but wouldn't you pay a foreign transaction fee anyway?

I have a sister in law that was repeatedly rape by here father and she was under psychiatric for many years and blocked it out of her mind and finally remembered it while she was in her fifties. She led a troubled live until then but now is a completely different person.

Wow. Sorry to hear about your sister-in-law. I find it disgusting that any "man" could rape his own child.

You're right, though....the mind does do crazy things to help us cope with traumatic experiences. People repress all kinds of bad memories. Unfortunately, I bet that when crimes are eventually reported, the victim is often accused of lying because they were not in the state of mind to report it immediately after the abuse occurred. I'm glad to hear that your sis-in-law is doing better now that the truth is out.

We should not assume that just because they are missing that something bad has happened to them. Some people leave home because it's not that great there!

I actually think that we should assume that they are missing, at least until they are accounted for. Better safe than sorry. I think it would be a huge shame to assume that a girl has chosen to leave home, then find out later that she was abducted/killed/etc.

7 years before reporting the teacher?!?!?!

Believable. Often victims are afraid to come forward.

Yes, and it doesn't say that the parents knew about it for the entire 7 years. It could have been that the child only reported it after 7 years, which as Gandalf said, is believable. Young children ARE often afraid to report abuse. Sometimes they don't know how wrong/bad/illegal it really is, and often the abuser threatens the child and his/her family if they tell anyone. Five year olds are impressionable.

If it's so safe, they why do they need "minders?"

Also is it really a reason to worry if it's only missing by 3 days for now? I mean can there be a shift in female body of some sort for whatever reason so now her period would not come on as usual? We just came back from a trip to Canada and the jet lag was very hard on her, she never traveled that far ever.

I personally have not heard of jet lag as a problem, but in regards to your first question - it depends on the woman. It depends how "regular" she normally is. For some women, 1 day late is a problem, while for others, 1 week is not even a big deal.

OK well, she got drunk and went and bought the check kit herself. She is saying it said she isn't pregnant.

No offense to your girlfriend, but it's probably a really good thing that she's not pregnant. Does she realize the damage that alcohol can do to a fetus in the very early stages? Next time I would suggest another method of getting "brave" enough to walk into a pharmacy and get a pregnancy test.

six men against one women, what a bunch of cowards.

Exactly. How miserable & pathetic those men must be. I only wish we knew the name of the restaurant . Assuming this is all true, I would make sure to NEVER go there!