FarangYaayYaaw

We were expecting to learn from you, "who had lived in BKK for many years".

What are you, the designated bully?

No, that title goes to the gentleman.

The Gentleman isn't in to avoiding the female section of the community ? Is he ?

The geek chorus

Thanks for the ideas. I especially like the idea of the Siam Society. I also will probably sign up for Thai lessons. I actually enjoy learing Thai - still practice reading and writing for an hour/day. I don't know why - it's a pretty useless language for me - my wife speaks excellent English now, and my kids REFUSE to speak Thai anymore. But it's fun.

My work is computer-relaetd and the hours are flexible so I can do some of these things.

So what exactly do you want to do, screw around or play titily winks? 

Thank you for your previous post.

It seems that if you talk about sex on this board you get 2 types of replies:

Personal attacks from moralists, or

"Just do it dude, It feels good!"

So what's the point of answering a question like that?

We were expecting to learn from you, "who had lived in BKK for many years".

What are you, the designated bully?

so what are your rules for your wife, so she can indulge in a lover as well while you are away?

Fair enough, but remember - she brought this up, it was not my suggestion. But if she insists, I think the same rules make sense.

Just a personal view - I don't think men and women think about sex in exactly the same way. I know most women don't agree with this, but it just seems obvious to me: When a man desires sex with other women it doens't necessarily mean that he doesn't love his wife, or wants out of the relationship. If a woman wants sex with other men I think it usually does mean she has serious problems with her current relationship.

I'm in no way saying this gives men permission to cheat on their wives, but I do believe it's true.

Anywy, thanks for the ideas.

I've explained who I am, and my experience in Thailand - I'm sure it's far more extensive than yours. I've met a lot of know-it-all's like you who come to Thailand buy sex a couple of time, and become an instant expert on absolutely everything. Good at shouting your half-baked opinions, and shouting down anyone who doesn't agree with you. Have fun, you win, I think I'll go get a life!

I'm serious, dosen't anybody have anything to say about what to do in Bangkok?

I know that people without education don't work at the glossy multi-nationalsl. The only reason I brought that up is that many of the anti-bg posters suggest they work at such places.

My sister-in-law is having difficulty finding work ANYWHERE at the moment. This is partly do to the fact she lives in Lop Buri.

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she wasn't trashing her family - just stating things could be better for them.

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But I really do know a LOT of Thais who live in America. My wife is very outgoing and active in the Thai community and we've at least met many of the Thais living in San Francisco, and now almost all of them living on the Big Island of Hawaii (maybe 80 people in Hawaii, and well over 150 in San Francisco over the last 12 yars) and I can say this UNEQUIVICALLY:

They all love Thailand, but are VERY happy to be in the US. If you made them choose between spending the rest of their lives in the US or Thailand, I'd bet good money 85% of them would choose the US.

Of course they'd choose mainly for economic reasons, but the "lower class" Thais also enjoy the social opportunities and freedoms and not being "looked down upon" that they enjoy here.

I am not a super-patriotic US republican by any stretch of the immagination, and the only reason I say the above is it's true. This is not my opinion, it is simply fact. If you don't agree with it, you haven't actually communicated with may Thais living here.

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think_too_mut - your opinions are very strong and of the variety of : "I know how THESE PEOPLE are, and they aren't like that." Have you spent much time in Thailand, and do you have any Thai friends or relatives? It almost seems like you read a "Culture Shock Thailand" book and are quoting from it. Sure there are broad things you can say about a culture, and sure Thai is more homogenous than most, but it's still composed of individuals.

I'm probably going to spend 4 - 6 months alone in Bangkok soon doing some work. I'm thinking I'd like to avoid the girls - some vague moral guilt pangs (even though my wife says it's OK if I follow some rules - God, I'm a fool !)

I know Bangkok very well - have lived there for many years. But in the past, I was either with my wife, or was not yet married. Anyway, there is NO WAY I can remain good and frequent bars, discoes, etc. where the girls are. I've been thinking that I'll probably find Bangkok very boring under these circumstances.

The movie selection sucks, the museums suck, it'll be hot as ######, I am not a big shopper, there just doesn't seem to be much to do (besides eat which I DO enjoy doing there) if you avoid the girls.

In case anyone is interested, here are my wife's rules:

1 - don't get any diseases

2 - don't get anybody pregnant

3 - don't fall in love

4 - don't spend too much money

5 - "never -as long as you live - tell me about it, even if I ask you and say it's OK"

It's this last rule that has me scared. I'm not a very good liar - especially to her

Any ideas?

I did introduce this girl to guys I knew, but they weren't interesetd in marrying her. And I did contribute to her welfare in a small way - I drilled into her head the idea that it is ALWAYS ALWAYS necessary to wear a condom. She seeme to feel if the guy was hansome and clean enough it wouldn't be necessary.

Good to know your motivation is what you believe to be best for these girls - and not just to shout insults at people! (I'm not saying I'm above being insulted!)

I do believe if girls keep at this too long it can destroy them, but I think you might be overly optimistic about all the other posiblilities that are open to them, especially the girls with little education. Go to Starbucks or Pizza Hut and talk to the waiters - they're mostly college students - not some Isaan girl with 4 years of education. My sister-in-law is a high school graduate and is finding it difficult to get steady work - and Thailand is in the middle of an economic boom.

2 more points:

There are about 1,000,000 Thais living in the US. I would guess at LEAST 100,000 of them were bar girls who married tourists, GIs, and ex-pats. I've met over 100 such couples, and it seems the divorce rate is no worst than society as a whole (about 50%). But even those girls that get divorced (if the marriage lasts 3 years) end up with a Green Card - they won the lottery.

When I lived in Thailand I went to AA meetings. I would often take small groups of women tourists (Westerners) I met there to GoGo bars because they were curious, then I would act as interpreter. I remember one irate English woman trying to explain to a 30 year old Isaan dancer that she was being "exploited" and she should hate these men who were "exploiting" her.

The girl, who was more thoughtful than most, replied, "these men are the only people I've ever met who don't exploit me. My 4 brothers can't find anybody to give them a fair wage for their work - they're the ones really exploited. People should leave us alone - all these girls want to be here." Then she asked this group of women if any of them would like to donate any money to help her brothers. Nobody did, but the English lady offered her 2,000 Baht if she promised to go home and make an honest living. The girl said "Sure, give me the money." The girl got dressed and went home and the English lady was foolish enough to think she had just saved somebody.

ithe fact that she ended up ok is more luck than anything else.

...

yours was not an act of help or friendship.

I'm not trying to say I did her any favors (however, she would tell you today that I did - but I can tell by your tone that you're much more interested in your view of what's right for people than ther own), and you're correct about her being lucky. But the point is that I did not help her into this business - she had decided to do that - 100% decided before she even met me and was not going to have me change her mind. The way I saw it was I was just looking after her the first few nights. Morally - I feel it was quite a neutral act.

BTW, are you a Missionary?

Oh, did you just say you made up the story based on the above analogy?

That's why it was (and is) so unbelievable.

NO NO NO - Geez, I'm having a hard time making myself clear. That story is true - every word. So is the story about the AUA teacher - they are BOTH true!

I lived there for quite a long time, I have been married to a Thai woman for 15 years now. I worked for a Thai company and all my co-worker and customers wer Thai. I would go days not seeing anyone who spoke English. I speak enough of the language to get myself in trouble, and I trust people and they trust me. I don't have a very typical Farang attitude or presentation. I'm not agressive, or threatening. I actually take my shoes off before enterning my house in America!

I'm also a very curious, open and fun-loving sort of person. As a result I've had a lot of strange experiences (not just in Thailand) that you maybe havent had.

Getting better at Thai is one of my favorite things about going to Thailand.

ng is easy, try saying this:

coming on, coming on, oming on, ming on, ing on, ng on

just let the ng sound and the 'on' run together (as they do in natural English speach).

Tones are easy too, once you 'get it.' We use tones in English, say this:

"Tom, com here!"

"Tom, is that you?"

The first Tom is the falling tone, the second Tom is the rising tone. Actually the hardest things about tones is not adding "extra" tones - like rising tones in question words, etc. But, it's learanble.

I have a little more trouble with the difference between dor dek, and dhor dtau.

I learned first from transliterations - but I agree this is a bad idea. Learn to read and write Thai from the very start. The writing system is about the only logical thing in Thailand! It's fun.

On Sukhumwit Soi 19 there's a school Somchart Thai Language school which is pretty reasonably priced and the teachers try to keep it fun.

You also have to put in as much time as possible - and do it daily. I still read every day - and it's like excersizing - you get better. ALso, a long-haired dictionary doesn't hurt.

As for getting "fluent" or talking like a native - don't worry about it. For most people it's not possible. Look at a Russian or German who learns English as an adult - 99% will speak with an accent the rest of their lives. It doesn't matter - just get better every day - get in a healthy competition with a friend who's lerning at the same time.

Thais are SO supportive for people who try to learn the language. And the Thais who don't speak English are usually more fun to talk to than the ones who do.

Well, the reason I bothered to write it is it's a bit unusual. I guess it must be hard to believe, because I posted it in 2 places and 5 people have called me a liar so far!

On the other hand, it can't be that unusual because something similar happened to me again. My wife was studying English at AUA and befriended one of the Thai teachers there. This college educated girl was looking for a Farang husband, but wasn't opposed to making a few Baht while looking. She also was picking my brain for advise on how to start a pro-am career.

This girl ended up getting pregnant and marrying a Thai cop.

The story is "complete"?

There could be a story like this but I have never heard one.

Sounds more like a write-up.

I don't get it - you've never heard of village girls with kids and no man who don't have enough money so they go to Bangkok, leave the kids with relatives, work at bars, send money home, and get married to foreigners?

What the ###### kind of story have you heard?

Because my Thai wife was involved in the restaraunt business in San Francisco (and because we went to Thai temples regularly), I've met more than 100 Thai/American couples, and that story is VERY VERY common - trust me.

I lived in Bangkok for many years back in the 80s/90s. My Thai wife used to go to school at night, and I would take care of my 8 year old stepson. We used to live near Panthip Plaza, and often I'd take him there for dinner. Back then there weren't many Farang in Prathunam at night so everything was cool. But one night there were two rather ugly large drunk American blokes at S&P while we were eating - giving me dirty looks. I really didn't get it until my son went to the bathroom and one of the guys called me a "dirty f*$*#ing pedophile."

These guys probably would have killed me if they thought they could have gotten away with it.

I meant when I met her she didn't feel she had any better options. After she got married she was a co-owner of a Thai restaurant in Germany - made enough money to build a house in Thailand and buy a truck and save some money.

When I told to a bg that going to school is an option I would support her with, she jumped on it.

She fast tracked from year 6 to full High school and is now in her second year of studies in marketing.

Speaks and writes good English, knows all one has to know about computers to level up with regular students, types faster than me and even finished 3 month course in Japanese.

I guess you're saying I should have funded this girl's education. I'm actually quite generous, but that wasn't possible. I had a pregnant wife, a 9 year old boy, and a sick mother-in-law at the time - my money was spent before I made it.

Anyway, this looks like a fun message board - I've only posted once and 3 people have already called me a liar!

One more note on the above story. I just showed it to a friend, and he said I should have been ashamed of myself for leading this girl into sexual servitude. That I was no better than a "ghetto pimp".

First off - I don't really qualify as a pimp - I didn't get any of the money.

Secondly - this girl had really explored all her options and had made her mind up that this was what she was going to do. I actually tried quite hard to talk her out of it, but she wasn't listening. So, my options were to help her or let her fend for herself. I chose to help her - maybe I was wrong, but it seemed like the best thing at the time.

Here's a complete abridged history of a bar girl.

I lived in Thailand for 7 years in the late 80's, early 90's. I was (and still am) married to a Thai woman. We were visiting my wife's sister's farm near Rayong. I was talking to a neighber of theirs - a pretty 25 year old girl, Daeng. Daeng lived on a nearby farm with her brother and her 2 young sons. They were in truly dire financial staights - were about to lose the farm, due to bad luck (Daeng's 2 boyfriends deserting her leaving behind a kid each), 2 real bad years for tapioca, and some medical expenses.

Daeng basically said this to my wife and I: "I'm tired of being poor, we're about to lose our land, I like sex 'a lot', I'm attracted to farang men. Would you take me to Bangok and help me get started in prostitution." Daeng was a smart, charming woman with nine years of schooling, and she was determined to do this whether we helped or not.

My wife had to stay with her sick grandmother for a few weeks, so she decided to keep our son there, and asked me to take Daeng back to Bangkok and get her "set up". I, reluctantly, did this. And looking back on this (14 years later), it was hilarious. The 2nd night back I took her to the Beer Garden - we went there for a few nights, but she was WAY too shy to talk to anybody. I'd bring guys over to meet her, but she'd just look at her shoes and tremble and they'd lose interest. She said: "I'm really really afraid, and excited, and horney, and ashamed of my feelings." She also didn't like the place because she said the other girls were unfriendly to her because: "they're all jealous I'm Thai and they'er Lao."

After 4 nights of no business, I brought her to a Patpong bar where they made her a waitress. This was just what she needed, a cute little uniform, something to do (clean ashtrays), and an excuse to talk to men: "which one do you like, sir?" She actually stayed at my apartment for 3 weeks, and I was worried sick the first night she didn't come home. (And strangely jealous - even though there was nothing sexual going on between us.)

Anyway, Daeng did this for about 2 years and really did send almost all of the money home. She met a German guy who married her and took her and her 2 sons to Germany. After 8 years they got divorced, and Daeng moved back to her farm in Rayong, but her kids are staying with their step-dad in Germany. The reason for the divorce is her husband fell in love with a younger bar girl!

I saw Daeng this year for the first time since she moved to Germany. She seems pretty happy with her choices. Her kids have a better chance for a good future in Germany than the did on the farm, she still has the farm, she's fat and sassy, and looking for another Farang boyfriend.

The reason I posted this isn't because Daeng's story is typical, or that special either. It's simply a story of one person. I'm reading these posts and the amount of generalization bothers me. It's a subtle form of racism. There are 6 million stories in the Naked City, and Daeng's is just one.

I have a feeling that the people with the strongest opinions don't speak very good Thai, and haven't actually spent much time talking (shagging doesn't count) with these girls.

Here's a complete abridged history of a bar girl.

I lived in Thailand for 7 years in the late 80's, early 90's. I was (and still am) married to a Thai woman. We were visiting my wife's sister's farm near Rayong. I was talking to a neighber of theirs - a pretty 25 year old girl, Daeng. Daeng lived on a nearby farm with her brother and her 2 young sons. They were in truly dire financial staights - were about to lose the farm, due to bad luck (Daeng's 2 boyfriends deserting her leaving behind a kid each), 2 real bad years for tapioca, and some medical expenses.

Daeng basically said this to my wife and I: "I'm tired of being poor, we're about to lose our land, I like sex 'a lot', I'm attracted to farang men. Would you take me to Bangok and help me get started in prostitution." Daeng was a smart, charming woman with nine years of schooling, and she was determined to do this whether we helped or not.

My wife had to stay with her sick grandmother for a few weeks, so she decided to keep our son there, and asked me to take Daeng back to Bangkok and get her "set up". I, reluctantly, did this. And looking back on this (14 years later), it was hilarious. The 2nd night back I took her to the Beer Garden - we went there for a few nights, but she was WAY too shy to talk to anybody. I'd bring guys over to meet her, but she'd just look at her shoes and tremble and they'd lose interest. She said: "I'm really really afraid, and excited, and horney, and ashamed of my feelings." She also didn't like the place because she said the other girls were unfriendly to her because: "they're all jealous I'm Thai and they'er Lao."

After 4 nights of no business, I brought her to a Patpong bar where they made her a waitress. This was just what she needed, a cute little uniform, something to do (clean ashtrays), and an excuse to talk to men: "which one do you like, sir?" She actually stayed at my apartment for 3 weeks, and I was worried sick the first night she didn't come home. (And strangely jealous - even though there was nothing sexual going on between us.)

Anyway, Daeng did this for about 2 years and really did send almost all of the money home. She met a German guy who married her and took her and her 2 sons to Germany. After 8 years they got divorced, and Daeng moved back to her farm in Rayong, but her kids are staying with their step-dad in Germany. The reason for the divorce is her husband fell in love with a younger bar girl!

I saw Daeng this year for the first time since she moved to Germany. She seems pretty happy with her choices. Her kids have a better chance for a good future in Germany than the did on the farm, she still has the farm, she's fat and sassy, and looking for another Farang boyfriend.

The reason I posted this isn't because Daeng's story is typical, or that special either. It's simply a story of one person. I'm reading these posts and the amount of generalization bothers me. It's a subtle form of racism. There are 6 million stories in the Naked City, and Daeng's is just one.

I have a feeling that the people with the strongest opinions don't speak very good Thai, and haven't actually spent much time talking (shagging doesn't count) with these girls.