theseahorse

i am a bit of topic,i need skins and elastic nets for making Coppa,anybody knows where to get them?

The nets are easy to get here, but getting the large beef casings is not so easy. For my Coppas I usually wrap them in muslin for the first month and then hang unwrapped and sprayed with white mold (bactoferm 600) for the final aging.

Here's another link that confirms the nitrite strength of European and other cures...........

http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=4794

note:

"The strength of nitrates and nitrites themselves

do not vary. It is the amount added to a sodium chloride (salt) carrier

that makes a cure stronger or weaker in comparison to others. One MUST

look at the label to be safe. In Sweden, folks call their product

Colorazo at 0.6% nitrite. In France, it’s Sel nitrite’ at 0.6% nitrite.

In Poland, the nitrited salt cure Peklosol is available at 0.6% nitrite,

and in Germany, it is Pokelsalz at 0.6% nitrite content in salt. As you

can see, Prague Powder Cure #1 in America is ten and a half times stronger than European cures, with the exception of some of those in the UK."

Having read this and the helpful posts on this topic, I now feel more secure in my curing with this European blend. It does make the cost of curing 10X higher with the lower nitrite, but at least I'll feel safer, but with this Indasia cure [@0.8-0.9% nitrite], I'll cut cure a bit.

IF anyone does find the US cure #1 here in LOS, please inform me by PM or this thread.

Thanks in advance...........

I've actually always found it cheaper using the European cures. The curing salt is 10x cheaper than the concentrated US version and you don't need to buy the extra salt either.

It's seasoning sauce eg Maggi.

Basically, just another way of adding MSG without scaring the people who think MSG will kill them.

Jaideeguy, I would not increase the amount of Nitrite Brine Salt by (7) times the amount, on the information posted on this topic until I get the correct answers from those in the know! I believe if you do that on the information stated here you will be inviting an extreme health hazard to yourself and anyone that eats your cured meat.

In reading the response you received from Royal, I read a positive response, Re: strength is enough to keep the red color, and to properly cure the ham (do not change the process) in Germany they discussed lowering the amount of Nitrite in their product to. 0.4-0.5%. If you have any more questions to contact them again.

Why would any company fake and market such a Low cost product, makes no sense, they buy it in bigger sacks and repackage it. If they have changed suppliers or use multiple suppliers as my package had a "Hela" logo and was a Hela product repackaged in one kilo bags by Royal.

U. S. measurement standards differ from most of the rest of the world, which has confused some of those on this forum.

You are free to reject my argument, take care!

Cheers:

I fully understand you not wanting to just trust something you read on Thai visa, but do some research online. As I mentioned a few times in this thread, you are not using the American style cure#1 you are using what the rest of the world use. Take a look at my previous post about the different names used across the world and Google it. Curing salt is designed to be added at about 30g to each kg of meat. If you look at any recipe it will have a total of about 30g per kg in, in the states you add a little cure #1 and kosher salt but the rest of the world buys it pre mixed so just adds about 30g /kg. Exactly the same end result, just a different way of getting there.

Here's a very good website on curing that explains both the US style and the European salt types. It also has a cure calculator. Put in the amount of the European cure(Peklosol)into it you add per kg of meat and see what it says.

www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing

The company you buy it from is Royal Exquisite, not Indasia. Indasia are just one of the companies that Royal Exquisite import from.

I buy this salt by the 15kg sack, it's a real curing salt from a known German brand (sorry can't remember which) it's not fake.

well, and why do they (Royal Exquisite) put an "Indasia" label on the pack, if it's from.....??

Fact is, the 1 Kg pack I bought, is not a legit Indasia product.

It *might* be, that they (Royal Exquisite), buy it in bigger (20kg) units from Indasia or some importer and repack/refill it in 1 Kg units?

But nobody knows.

I usually don't care a shit about fakes, but if it *could* resulting in health problems, that's another story...

I think it's imported through the company that runs the SE Asia side of Indasia that's based in Singapore, but it's not an Indasia product so Indasia told you it's fake. Maybe Royal Exquisite shouldn't be using their Indasia labels on their packaging, but it's not fake. They just open the 15kg sacks so they can sell it in smaller packages to keen amateur curers like yourself who wouldn't want to buy 15kg at a time.

Nothing fake, no health risks in anyway and as I said in my previous post I buy it by the sack in the original packaging. The sack has all the information and brand name on the side. I'll be getting a couple more sacks soon so will post a picture of it then.

well...

Seems the brine salt from Royal Phuket is a fake.

I wrote to them in german language and got this answer:

Translation:

We are sorry, but you didn't buy an Indasia product. This is a fake product.

Hallo Herr xxxxx,

Sie haben leider kein INDASIA-Produkt gekauft. Es handelt sich hierbei um eine Fälschung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

INDASIA GEWÜRZWERK GmbH

i.A. Katharina Kleinheider

- Sekretariat-

Indasia Gewürzwerk GmbH

Malberger Str. 19

49124 Georgsmarienhütte

Fon: +49 (0) 5401 33718

Fax: +49 (0) 5401 33788

eMail: [email protected]

Internet: www.indasia.com

nice.....

The company you buy it from is Royal Exquisite, not Indasia. Indasia are just one of the companies that Royal Exquisite import from.

I buy this salt by the 15kg sack, it's a real curing salt from a known German brand (sorry can't remember which) it's not fake.

So, what you guys are saying is that the locally available nitrite brine salt @ 0.8% nitrite should be multiplied by a factor of 7 to be 'properly' cured?? In my ignorance, I've been like Kikoman and using it at the same levels as normal [6.25% nitrite] #1 cure, but handle my meat carefully with respect and it cures for 7 to 10days in the fridge, then after a 3 hr smoke @ 225f, it cools and goes directly into my freezer.

This all makes me wonder why Royal sells such a low nitrite product and what is it's intended use??

It has the same intended use and will produce the same product. When you add cure #1 to your recipe it asks to add salt too (about 6 - 7 times more salt than cure) so you have about 1 part cure to 6 - 7 parts plain salt. With the nitrite salt it is already mixed so you just add the nitrite salt and no extra plain salt. The end result is an identical amount of nitrite. It's just that the US use a different method to the rest of the world and have recently published more on the subject.

Outside of the US this is the standard curing salt although go under various names; Peklosol (Poland), Pokelsalz (German), Sel Nitrite (French), Colorazo (Swedish), Nitrited Salt (UK) and Kuritkwik (Aus)- all are about 0.6-0.8.

@Turkleton, that's sounds perfect. Anywhere between 30g and 50g per kg is right, just depends on how salty you like your bacon. Although the idea of these curing salts is you don't need to add extra salt as it will always give you safe product.

So you are all aware of the amount of nitrites needed and the amount officially allowed here's a few figures to work by-

Wet Cure must be under 200 ppm

Dry Cure under 625 ppm

Comminuted (eg sausages)under 156 ppm (150 ppm in Europe)

Any cured item marked keep refrigerated(eg bacon)must have 120 ppm and as someone mentioned in a previous post must not contain nitrates in the US.

Anything under 120 ppm and you won't get the shelf life that is required, however you will get some extra shelf life with about 40-50 ppm.

ppm = parts per million (eg mg per kg of meat)

Saying this, these are all for commercial curers. If you're making it at home you can remove the nitrite altogether if you wish and just use salt. You just won't have that cured flavour, the redness associated with cured meats, the shelf live or the protection from botulism.

I have used the "Nitrite Brine Salt" from the Royal Group for years, and have had very good results, no ill effect and have made and eaten much bacon, ham and sausages.

I know a number of other members that are also using it, I always put in the number of teaspoons the recipes calls for of pink salt.

Cheers:

Just so you are aware, you're adding such little nitrite into your mix that it's not worth adding any. If you're adding say even 1 teaspoon of nitrite salt for each kilo of meat you'll still only have a ppm of about 30. You need at least 50ppm to start to 'cure' meat and about 75ppm to start fighting off botulism.

This doesn't mean your products are going to harm you, there's just more of a chance than someone who's curing with sufficient nitrites. You may as well just miss out the nitrite salt and cure your products in plain salt if you like the results you're getting.

Yep...excuse me for being a 'merkin'. I had no choice in where I was born.

I had assumed that the use of the comma was a European thing and now confirmed, thanks.

I do have [what the sales person claims] food grade nitrite and nitrate and may use that in the manner that Butter described if no 'merkan' cure becomes available here

"Actually the rest of the world uses this Brine Salt, cure #1 and #2

are an American thing. It's just that most books/websites on home curing

are written by Americans. In the states you add your cures to kosher

salt, whereas the rest of the world just has it premixed. Like this it's

impossible for you to add too much nitrite.

To use your brine salt just add the amount of cure #1 and the amount of kosher salt in the recipe and it will be the same."

So seahorse, even tho the amount of nitrite in my 'European cure' is approx 8 times less than the US cure, I should use the same amount of Eurocure per kilo of meat??

Seems to me that to keep the nitrite levels in the safe range [according to the USDA] , I should use more cure.

Thanks for the feedback.........

Take a look at the recipe you want to use. A dry-cure mix recipe with cure #1 will probably say something like 450g of kosher salt and 50g of cure #1 (plus some sugar etc.). To use your brine salt just add the two together, so you'd use 500g of brine salt and no kosher salt. This will give you the same ppm of nitrite as the American style cures.

I guess you're American.

Actually the rest of the world uses this Brine Salt, cure #1 and #2 are an American thing. It's just that most books/websites on home curing are written by Americans. In the states you add your cures to kosher salt, whereas the rest of the world just has it premixed. Like this it's impossible for you to add too much nitrite.

To use your brine salt just add the amount of cure #1 and the amount of kosher salt in the recipe and it will be the same.

Look up Raidiance Whole foods. They have a shop tucked away on Suk 22, but are at the various farmers markets and fairs regually. They're always at the Bo.lan Market on the 1st Saturday of the month.

The local skins they sell in makro are ungraded and a bit of a nightmare to use. They're very tangled, have lots of holes in and some aren't cleaned/scraped well enough to use. Expect to only be able to use about 60% of the pack.

Most are about the equivalent of 34/36's but others are closer to 40 and some under 30.

Most Indian stores sell onion powder, if you're in BK then there's plenty of Indian grocery stores across the city.

5555..okay I give up ........kosher salt and bacon in same sentence already!????

Kosher salt doesn't mean it's kosher, all salt is kosher. The name comes from it's use of bring out the 'blood' from meat.

Kosher Salt is just salt with no additives such as iodine in and is a larger grain, the idea is it brings out the blood when sprinkled on meat. Calling it 'Kosher salt' is really just an American term.There's plenty of unadulterated salt availible here, just drive past the salt fields in Samut Songkhram and there's hundreds of sellers (although some are better than others), then just break it down to a good size.

So Retell, you're saying that any cut can be used?? And the basic porkloin is used for Canadian bacon? I get most of my meat from Makro and the pork loin there has hardly any fat. Maybe I'll try the local market as most of Makro's meat seems like it poped out of a pork mold and all looks the same. corporate pigs!!

Any part of the pig can be cured, but some are more suited to bacon or ham or aging than others. Obviously the most popular for bacon are the belly and then the loin, although you'll find it difficult here to find loin with a small bit of belly attached for a real British style back bacon.

But cuts like the collar are great for curing. Collar bacon is great due to the natural marbelling, just look at the Italian Coppa. It also makes a great ham too. Tenderloin is a bit too lean for just bacon/ham (although great when aged to make 'Filleto'). Then the leg makes gammon when boned and cured (or ham if you then cook it).

I personally prefer to dry-cure as I prefer the stronger flavour but many brine cure as it's easier . I also prefer it less sweet than the recipes above (they're very American). But play around, it's not hard, once you have your basic recipe sorted just add different levels of sugar or try using mollasses/honey/ syrups or different sugars (I really like using the dark brown natural sugar we get here) and play around with different herbs and flavourings, add garlic and herbs and you have pancetta. Experiment and find your own personal style.

Here's a recent batch of dry-cured back bacon.

I like the look of that bacon.

The biggest problem I have is that I don't have a meat slicer so my bacon comes out sort of gammon thickness even after it has been in the freezer for 3 or 4 hours before cutting it up to "firm up" the bacom.

The slicer helps, but with a good sharp knife and a bit of practice you should be able to slice nice thin slices. A slicer is only really needed if your slicing a lot at a time.

Also, 1,100 baht for 6.5kg of leg is expensive. You should be paying about 110 /kg not 170 from a wet market or Makro for boned leg meat.

So Retell, you're saying that any cut can be used?? And the basic porkloin is used for Canadian bacon? I get most of my meat from Makro and the pork loin there has hardly any fat. Maybe I'll try the local market as most of Makro's meat seems like it poped out of a pork mold and all looks the same. corporate pigs!!

Any part of the pig can be cured, but some are more suited to bacon or ham or aging than others. Obviously the most popular for bacon are the belly and then the loin, although you'll find it difficult here to find loin with a small bit of belly attached for a real British style back bacon.

But cuts like the collar are great for curing. Collar bacon is great due to the natural marbelling, just look at the Italian Coppa. It also makes a great ham too. Tenderloin is a bit too lean for just bacon/ham (although great when aged to make 'Filleto'). Then the leg makes gammon when boned and cured (or ham if you then cook it).

I personally prefer to dry-cure as I prefer the stronger flavour but many brine cure as it's easier . I also prefer it less sweet than the recipes above (they're very American). But play around, it's not hard, once you have your basic recipe sorted just add different levels of sugar or try using mollasses/honey/ syrups or different sugars (I really like using the dark brown natural sugar we get here) and play around with different herbs and flavourings, add garlic and herbs and you have pancetta. Experiment and find your own personal style.

Here's a recent batch of dry-cured back bacon.

Adams Organics have had locally grow butternuts squashes for a while. Theres still some in my local Tops, small but very nice and a fraction of the price compared to the imported ones at Villa.

I've also seen fresh sage in a couple of Villas recently too. Stuff like this is getting much easier to find in BK now.

Boyce - Aren't you based in Korat? I keep seeing stuff about Korat Chef and his sausages, all good butchers should sell a customer some casings so they can make their own - have you asked him?

If he won't help, PM me and I'll sort you out with some, I'm in BK though so Korat Chef may be a better option.

No. They stopped selling them a while ago.

Sent from my Samsung

Rusk, I've never seen. But I prefer bread crumbs in my British sausages anyway, probably my Suffolk upbringing. The dry white 'Panko' crumbs are very cheap and just need a quick blitz.

Still no luck with the stuffer? I was in Kluay Nam Thai earlier today and they had a few on the shelf. Cheapest was a 2 litre barrel for 8,000 (or 9,000 in Ferrari red). A few larger ones too.

According to the brochure I picked up their website is - www.bakeryeasy.net

Lesson 1. Go to the shops and buy some scales!

No self respecting cook uses cups, even American books now give the weight and advises people not to use cups. Crumpets are really easy to make, but you need to weigh out the ingredients otherwise it's not going to work, same goes with any baking.

If you're looking for a good recipe, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall wrote a good article in the Guardian a few years ago about Crumpets, Drop-Scones, Pikelets, Farls and Muffins with recipes, Google it and I'm sure you'll find it.

Edit.

@ WilliaminBKK

You posted at the same time as me. Glad to hear you're using some scales and the crumpets have come out well.

Here, give this website a look: http://orgathai.weba...shop/pricelist/ They have organic Jasmine brown rice.

The rice from Raitong that Orgathai sell is amazing. By far the best Thai rice I've had. Especially the GABA. I usually pick some up each month at one of the farmers markets. There's details of the markets on the website here too.