Johpa

Once my wife had a call at work that our house has been broken into. She rushed home and found the police with the villain outside the house. Apparently neighbor call the police, they came and found this man standing inside our living room. He told them that he could not find anything to nick and looked very unhappy. Lol. They took him away and that was the end of the story.

One of the good things about living in a rural village is that the neighbors tend to include relatives and everyone watches out for the other's property. Most homes have those stylized iron bars over their windows to deter theft and the homes are built with sturdy hardwood doors That being said, household theft is still common, usually involving neighboring locals from a village down the road who get addicted to drugs. While our own lost youth burglarize their villages. And sometimes the yaa baa addicted youth burglarize homes in their native village, perhaps one of the reasons the rural folks had no issues with Thakisn's drcaonian anti-drug efforts.

Our home has never been targeted even though its sits empty most of the year and I am the only Farang in the immediate region. I like to think it is beacuse we have always donated to and supported local causes, helped local families, and hosted a yearly party where everyone is invited.

Just curious how many people have had their house, condo, or apartment broken into?

I came home from work yesterday to find the door to my condo bashed in. A laptop that I just bought last week and a digital camera were stolen.....

Perhaps whoever sold you the laptop wanted it back.

He said that education should begin with the students’ mother tongue because they are already accustomed to the language and teachers have to ensure that their native language is solid enough before introducing foreign languages to them. Otherwise, they would face difficulties in learning both native and foreign languages.

Of course it begins with the mother tongue...at home. That's what they do already and it doesn't work. More doublespeak from the ministry. Thai and English should be taught side by side. That's a bilingual program. The whole problem is that with minimal exposure to other languages, people become deeply entrenched in a singular thought pattern. That is the actual obstacle to learning a second language. So let's reinforce that! Native languages that are spoken in the home and in public are not in danger of extinction. They are there for every day communication at home, in the workplace, and in public. Why doesn't he just come right out and say what he feels: "Thai people should not be educated too highly nor given the opportunity to see outside the box that we, the government and business elite, design for them. They must remain ill-experienced and ignorant masses that cowtow to our auspicious demands, forgoing any remarkable increases in the quality of their lives while relinquishing the wealth and resources of the country to our superior ability to control."

My, you express a rather strong version there of the (non-Clingon) Whorf hypothesis there suggesting that a language creates specific thought patterns.

Going back to the original headline, we first must come to an agreement upon what is the "proper" dialect of Thai as the spokesperson for the Royal Institute seems to be ignorant of modern linguistic thought which states that human brain does not allow ungrammatical or improper languages to reside within. Not that we can't all make errors on the rare occasion. So what Mr . Spokesperson is really trying to say is that he wishes to impose the dialect of Thai spoken by the people, mostly Sino-Thai, in Bangkok and spoken in closely related dialects troughout the Chao Phraya basin, as the official language whilst at the same time denigrating the other Thai dialects and Tai languages used in other parts of the coutry as being "not proper". Clearly the spokesperson wears a yellow shirt once a week to show his support for Sonthi, the I-am-not-a politician politician, a man who alsop looks down upon the rural folks.

In my experience up north, just about everyone is at least bi-lingual, and many are multi-lingual. In the rural Chiang Mai area, most folks use Kham Muang as a mother tongue and learn to speak Central Thai at an early age by exposure in the media and by use in the schools. The languages are very close so learning is quite easy. The minority kids usually speak a mother tongue in the home and learn either Kham Muang or Central Thai as a second language. Depending upon how isolated is the minority village, they often have the minority language as the mother tongue spoken in the home and a Tai language as a native tongue spoken in the market, and of course Central Thai from exposure in the schools and in the media. Then there is the rarer example of my niece, with a Karen mother and Mong father, who speaks of course Karen, Mong, Northern Thai, Central Thai, and now some English.

As for teaching English, the Thai public school system has not fared too well. But there are enough fundamental problems with the larger public education system that fixing the English language aspect may not be a priority, but it is important for the future of Thailand, as it of for any country whose native language is a minor language on the world scene. The only way to jump start the public school progrgam is to send large numbers of Thai teachers overseas for a year so that they achieve some proficiency in English.

wow ,really that much for 1 female elephant and a baby.... I had no Idea they were that expensive. you certainly know how to put someone off. Maybe an orphan elephant might be cheaper.

I have 50 rai of jungle that I thought an elephant might be a good investment on, easier to get to the land by elephant than by bike thats for sure. save me money building a road for a while. And damned useful for dragging logs about.

Are they like horses in the respect that the more trained and large they get the more valueble they get,? ie an appreciating asset? that and the breeding aspect could mean they still could be a good investment; although as I said already so much more than I imagined. maybe I should think about getting a JCB instead.

An elephant would be cool though.

Elephants are not cheap and ownership has become more centralized amongst the owners of the major elephant camps as compared to say 20 years ago when individuals rented them out to these camps. It is just that the cost of the camps and bringing food into the camps no longer makes it economical to rent the animals from outside owners, although many of the smaller camps do rent them.

They do not appreciate in value per se, although they are more valuable during their prime working years, around 20 to 40, than when still young or getting old. The extra value comes from females giving birth or from males by selling their tusks. But the main concern is that there is less traditional work available in the forests and only so much work available in the tourist market. I did not want to sell my elephants, but finding them work was becoming an issue, and many of the smaller elephant camps are, to be polite, just not well managed, and the animals suffer.

If you have 50 rai, then indeed an elephant may be an option, but you would have to hire a Mahout, usually either Karen or Suai, full time and develop a relationship with other professionals, such as a vet. And remember, although great for hauling logs, riding an elephant is pretty much a once in a lifetime experience. Hanging out with elephants never gets old. From an investment standpoint, I doubt you will ever see a profit.

Does anyone know anything about buying an elephant. Or preferably saving one.

( thankfully I've never seen a baby elephant at Chakachak market) there must be some conviscated elephants from these bastards that walk em round the streets, half staved, so as to sell overpriced rotten bannanas. or an injured one from over work or accident. And I'm sure they're always complaining about overcrowding and lack of finance at the elphant sancturies.

What do they cost ? Is some kind of licence required? How long does it take to train an elephant to do light work on land ( not washing up ). or take tourist on a stroll up a hill.? How long does it take for an elephant to accept a new owner? Do they need a partner to prevent loneliness ie would I need to get 2?

Strikes me as being an exellent Animal to take care of , useful, intellegent and a great companion; compared to my girlfriend anyway.

Who hasn't wanted to have there own pet elephant, but why not?

I'm sure there must be some downside, otherwise everyone would have one!!!

Any good links on taking care of an elephant anyone???

I owned an elephant in Thailand for about 18 years. My father-inlaw has owned elephants in Thailand for decades.

As for costs, well that depends on many things such as age, disposition, gait, gender, and yes, even personality. We finally sold our female and her young female offspring for around B600,000. Your mileage may vary as well as trunk space. And as you note, there are many unemployed elephants so prices might have fallen over the past few years.

Yes, there is an ownership deed that should be registered at your local Amphoe office.

Elephants do need to be trained and training can start around 3 to 4 years of age. But the elephant will need an independent Mahout (kwaan chaang) even before then. A mahout runs anywhere from B4,000 to B6,000 a month. As an owner, you are quite irrelevent to the animal. Unless of course you wish to become the mahout and spend half of each day caring, washing, and feeding your charge.

Elephants are very social animals and do not function very well living solitary lives, especially females. And there are many downsides: medical costs; transportation costs; damage costs after pachyderm grazes in your neighbors fields; and unless you live in a forested area, food costs are indeed rather high. If you have a male, then there are also security costs once it develops tusks.

They are highly intelligent and who knows how they compare to your favorite lass. And the tips of their trunk are surprisingly sensitive. For a select few, they maybe a viable alternative. So if you are a well heeled neo-sahib with some 10 rai of land, then it might be doable.

Next they will be asking tony Po to lead it - oops he is dead.

The young bucks here won't know who Tony ("Tony Po") Poshepny was -- a CIA wild man who "helped" with the H'mong "resistance" in Laos during the Vietnam War period.

You'd have to be a wild man to live with the H'mong. Do a google search if you're interested. Fascinating character.

Perhaps you need to be a wild man "snake eater" type to fight a war alongside the Mong, but I have always found the Mong in Thailand and in the US to be quite amicable. My sister-inlaw was married for many years to a Mong man in Thailand and I use to spend quite a bit of time in their village. I always found the Mong to be quite friendly and rather gregarious. My only caution is to be wary of the corn pone whisky brewed during the Mong New Year.

Lots of speculation about Poe, one of several snake eaters tasked in Laos. But one of the best book I have found remains Back Fire: The CIA's Secret War in Laos and Its Link to the War in Vietnam by Roger Warner.

The incident was a minor border dispute similar to other minor disputes of that era along the Burma border fought against Khun Sa's Shan army. Most of these incidents were more for show and saving face and did not involve serious full blown military enagagements. One could argue that some of these engagements, like the incidents up at Doi Lang, were really just dog and pony shows. Of course for those who died or were seriously injured, or their compatriots, such observations will clearly sting.

That being said, usually the Thai military came out looking rather poor because, well frankly, despite having some well trained troops, these incidents were usually led my Chawalit's cigar chomping pompous generals more interested in their personal business interests. These poorly led, at the general staff level, Thai troops were not usually the cream of the crop and they usually got whooped, or suffered from friendly fire incidents. The RTAF also came out looking rather silly loosing two planes up at Doi Lang and I think a plane along the Lao border, but there is no clue as to whether the losses were due to hostile fire, friendly fire, or pilor error.

All in all these were minor incidents and not wars. They did not involve the Vietnamese, and I highly doubt there were Cuban advisors although I was not present at the Lao incident and it is possible that there might have been one or two highly amused Cubans laughing at the incompetence of the Thai military. But if Khun Sa's ragtag troops could easily hold off the Thai army I doubt the inheritors of the Pathet Lao fighting tradition would need Cuban advisors to fend off the same Thai troops.

IMHO Ban Rak, Monkey Club and Warm Up all cater to the teeny brigade and should be avoided at all costs!

Tried all these venues the other night with another (old git) mate of mine. They wouldn't have anything to do with us. They are all "too cool for school" not really for the zimmer frame set. So we ended up in Spotlight. :D

Depends on your age, a farang over 30 has basically no chance there. I love em, I go with my friends all the time. The lounge at Warm up is my favorite spot. Might as well have fun there until I am considered too old and weird haha.

Sounds like my kind of places. Being over 50 and not looking for any "chances", all I want is to share some drinks with some mates and admire attractive young women, something I have not seen sitting outside the Spotlight in decades. Alas, the music at such modern establishments in town usually sends me out the door well before even my bedtime. I really do miss my favorite cantina, now closed, up in Mae Rim, bedecked with Christmas lights and staffed by young Thai women wearing high boots, fishnet stockings, and short skirts who would take turns on the stage crooning Thai folk songs.

Just remember, and don't laugh, but those of us too old and too weird like to have a little bit of fun too.

FWIW, I will be in-country for the first half of August (Svenske, come up to visit, eh?). Any location is fine, prefer somewhere that serves Mae Khong or Sang Som, but give fair warning as to date and time for those of us who will need to arrange shelter for the night if the weather happens to be wet.

By the way, mumbu, Israeli's are known to know best how to deal with terrorists, yet they can't stop the attacks or "curbed them drastically."

Balderdash! I lived in Israel during the early 1970s. I was able to travel freely and safely through the West Bank, sleep in Arab owned and operated hotels in East Jerusalem and within the Old City, was able to share meals and conversation with Palestinian students at places like the Petra Cafe inside the Jaffa Gate, and share meals with Palestinian families during holidays such as Id El Fitr. Little of this is possible now and the Israelis have taken a situation that once had possibilties and turned it into a no-solution scenario where mutual hatred is now the dominant theme. The Thai government should indeed study the Israeli response and come up with alternatives to avoid such policy failures.

I'll take another example, still Thailand related: the Crown Property Bureau.

If you take the wikipedia page: Bureau of the Crown Property, you will see that this article is not exactly nice with this institution.

Now have a look at the external links at the bottom of the page, you will see 2: the official website and Asia Sentinel's website.

Oh surprise, wikipedia's article is just the summarized version of Asia's Sentinel page, with the same references.

I don't say that what's in this article is not true, just that I cannot trust the content in this case, because the "million people waiting to correct your mate at the bar" factor obviously did not work.....

Actually an excellent example of a decent article on a very, very obscure topic. Imagine a reader outside of Thailand encountering a reference to the CPB. The Wiki article gives a brief overview of the institution, some brief comments of recent news related to the CPB, and further links. The article allows the casual reader who is unfamiliar with Thailand to place this Thai institution into some context and have it become become more than an anonymous acronym.

Has Jackmuu easily mastered all Thai sentence structure, including the proper usage and placement of the various particles? If reading Thai newspapers is easy, then I do bow down to you, sir.

In spite of what one is often told, Thai is more complicated than just a mere subject-verb-object construction. And perhaps you might explain the proper placements and usages of the dreaded à¸à¹‡ (gor), for example? It is not merely an all-purpose particle to be tossed in just anywhere. It could be very helpful to many of us to hear an easy explanation of that.

BTW, I have a Chinese-American friend who is a true polyglot stud, speaking several Chinese dialects, Korean, Japanese, Malay, Bahasa Indo and several Romance languages, and he says that Thai is the most difficult language he has ever encountered, for whatever that's worth.

Thai is easy in many ways, particularly the logical sense of the vocabulary, but if you come from a Romance-language background, sentence structure seems anything but easy - if you're actually trying to give a complete discourse on a detailed subject, outside of a beer bar, that is. And in clearly establishing the imperfect tenses, and especially the subjunctive mood, well, there is nothing easy about that in Thai, methinks.

My professor of Thai at a university in the US, one of the primary assitants to Mary Haas, he is also listed on the title page of her dictionary, could give a detailed linguistic analysis of just about any aspect of Thai grammar other than what you refer to as the dreaded ko (gor). That being said, with sufficient exposure, you will find yourself inserting it into a phrase, usually correctly, without having a clue as to why.

There is nothing easy about learning any language. Certainly the great challenge in learning English is also mastering such things as the imperfect tenses (there are only two true tenses in English) and mastering the auxillary verb structure which gives rise to such things as the subjunctive mood, a grammatical feature few native speakers can explain yet they can use it nearly flawlessly.

Five years ago one could easily find information by using the likes of Google. Today, you are just as likely to get pages of commercial sites trying to sell you something related to your search terms.

That though has nothing to do with censorship, but with search term optimization etc. to increase google ranking. Most sites with pure information content rarely bother with this, while commercial sites do use every legal trick, in order to get in the popular search terms the best page ranking.

If you want to search only for information, and want to bypass the commercial sites you will have to be more specific in which search term you type into the search engine.

But it does have to do with the second scourge I mentioned, increased noise. We all must use more precise filters to block the noise. Now I was taught Boolean logic in high school and so can create such filters for search engines on the fly. But alas, they aren't teaching the younger generation such mathematical concepts although they still have them solve quadratic equations ad nauseum. The trend, not always your friend, is towards increased corporate noise and increased government censorship.

My primary point was to note the fallacy alluded to in Stumonsters post that somehow the Internet allows for unimpeded dissemination of information. Certainly net savvy techies can temporarily overcome certain government censorship actions, but even these bypasses could be overcome by the censoring governments if so desired. The days of governments controlling digital information are only beginning. Welcome brave new world and remember Huxley's prophesy: "Liberalism died with the first anthrax bomb."

It is now too late to attempt to put the toothpaste back into the tube - the days of controlling information are nearly over - it will see in increase in propaganda and marketing in an attempt to regain lost ground.

Don't be too sure. They succeeded in banning Darkie, didn't they?

Ever see those maps of the Internet "backbones"? They do exist and they do converge in nodes that are easily controlled and indeed are controlled in many quarters. Not to mention the controlling of information by the corporations. Five years ago one could easily find information by using the likes of Google. Today, you are just as likely to get pages of commercial sites trying to sell you something related to your search terms.

So you have two converging actions lessening information, increased control of information and increased noise, noise being the opposite of information á la Shannon.

Many years ago the US State Department rated foreign languages on a difficulty scale of one to four based upon the average number of classroom hours it took to reach a specific level of proficiency with level one being the easiest. Thai, as well as Chinese, was ranked as a level three language. If I remember correctly, languages rated at level four included Arabic, Russian, and Japanese.

I am a big fan of Wikipedia. Yes, one can find inaccuracies here and there. But one can find those same types of inaccuracies in both academic and poopular literature. But once can access a treasuretrove of information, and I do distinguish between information and knowledge, at ones fingertops. If you are a history geek like myself, Wikipedia can become quite additive.

But I do wish someone would correct the entry under "Shan" where it states that the Shan are known by the Thais up north as Thai noi (lesser Thais) instead of the correct term Thai yai (greater Thais).

The hackneyed "Love it or leave it." response is not only childish but is counterproductive to effecting social change in any society. Immigrants and tourists too have basic human rights, one of which is the right to be treated equitably and fairly in the justice system.

Amnetsy International, Human Rights Watch and other international organizations have urged reform in Thailand, just as TV members are doing in this forum.

So what is the appropriate responses to these organizations?

If you don't like it don't come to Thailand?

Yes, the appropriate response is indeed that if you can't accept that Thailand is not a "modernized" society that took part in the late 18th century "enlightenment" movement and that Thailand does not share the same shared historical development of "legality" as does the "west" then perhaps Thailand is not for you. I mean it is great for you as long as things are going along smoothly, but you must take into consideration what is going to be the likely outcome if the doggy doo doo hits the fan.

Immigrants and tourists do have the same basic rights as do the Thais and are are treated no differently than are the Thais within the Thai justice system. And if you are a tourist or pensioner living in Thailand and you do not have a phuu yai to represent your interests within the system then your interests will not be represented. At least most western tourists and ex-pats have sufficient funds to hire a lawyer as a temporary phuu yai except when post-mortem when even that is no longer an option. And I daresay, unless you are a celebrity, don't expect your local embassy in Bangkok to act as your phuu yai, not even upon your death.

muea gorn .... amongst many .... how far in the past?

Mua kon is closer to "previously" or "before" and depends upon context as to how far in the past it refers. It is often used to denote a change, as in "before you use to be an honest person but now I don't trust you.

Samai kon refers to a set period of time in the past that the speaker feels no longer exists due to change, again context is need for the details. Sort of like "once upon a time."

Adit is closer to "the past" in a more technical or historical sense.

Bambi, one thing that helps improve English (besides living with a farang ) is to read a book in English. Get some thriller, it doesn't matter if it isn't academic and read. If you enjoy the subject, you will enjoy reading. Your vocabulary, spelling and grammar will slowly improve as you absorb by reading.

I agree wholeheartedly with SBK that the key is to read, but I suggest concentrating on expository non-fiction books as it is in that style of writing that you will need to attain a level of proficiency for graduate studies. As you are interested in animal behavior, may I suggest any of the popular classic books by Konrad Lorenz, any of the Jane Goodall books, or perhaps Cynthia Moss's book on Elephants. If there is another area of interest then I am sure the combined wisdom of people here on TV can find some recommendations.

Sometimes you can find some decent reading at the new and used English language book stores aimed primarily at tourists. But mostly one finds best selling novels that, although they may be fun to read, are not going to improve your academic English. I can only speak about what once existed in Chiang Mai a decade ago, but there were some decent non-fiction books available at the AUA library, at the CMU library, and my secret source, the grossly underutilized Mae Jo library.

And another little secret that I used when teaching EFL at a major university in the US, and this is rather politically incorrect to the younger generation of ESL\EFL linguists, but you are already aware of my tendency to offend others, is to write down, yes copy, well written sentences for practice.

Being American, I have to say, you generally can pick out the American Tourist (at least here in the States). Think khaki shorts, golf shirt, sandals usually and a pair of black socks pulled up to just below the knees. I see them every summer when they migrate north from the bigger cities. Children are usually in tow wearing the latest fashions. They almost always have a certain look on their face as if they are hoping no one they know will see them with their parents.

good grief......do you really see them wearing black knee socks?

Better black knee socks than overweight European men over the age of 50 wearing Speedos alongside their wives of 30 years who are hanging down, and I mean low down, topless on the beaches.

Has anyone compared Thailand today with Burma??

Or is that too extreme?

I belive it was either here at TV or a post at NM that referred to the Myanmarization of Thailand.

What about bilingual schools? Are they effective? What could we do to improve them? What needs to change?

It really depends on what you mean by a bilingual school. I believe that having competent language instruction at an early age in elementary school leads to a modicum of skills if it is maintained through the secondary level. There are countries in Europe where, like Thailand, the native language is a minor world language, where instruction in English is universal and where it is hard to find a high school graduate that is not competent in English. Go to Samui or Koh Phangan and try to find a Dutch or Scandinavian tourist who does not speak reasonable English. The key point here is having competent language instruction, something still missing in most Thai schools. At least Thailand is willing to bring in some native speakers. In the US the teachers unions make it difficult to hire outsiders for short term contracts and the result is language teachers who are poor speakers of the target language. If Thailand wants to improve English language skills it should probably look towards successful countries like Holland for specific ideas.

Even better are the results I have seen from local elementary immersion programs where young children in elementary school are immersed in the target language and instruction is almost entirely in the target language with at most a single class in the native language. These programs, often lead to young kids who are functional bilinguals by the age of 10. My nephew became a fluent Spanish speaker by age 12 in such a program and my cousin was once asked if she was his nanny by a Mexican couple who the kid and spoken to in a shop.

People have to understand that for many people bilingualism is the norm with a mother tongue spoken in the home and the native tongue spoken in the streets and playgrounds.

I see Phuket becoming more like a Sukhumvit down south. Full of rich foreigners with all the local Thais forced to move out because everything becomes so expensive (including land and property)? Not my kind of 'paradise'. Also these high prestige developments benefit so few; in fact most people who invest/buy these developments wont spend much time there. So much like the other 'ghost town' developments for the rich scattered across Europe. How often is Bill Gates going to visit each year in a super yacht? In fact how many 'super yachts' will visit each year and what will they look at when they arrive? Maybe 'paradise' will have moved on due to over development and there wont be anything to see (like Pattaya)..

I seem to remember a time when there weren't many Thai people living along the most popular beach areas of Phuket, especially the area from Karon down to Nai Harn. The land grab began in earnest after Club Med committed to Phuket on Kata Beach back in the early 1980s. Nai Harn Beach use to be largely public land until it became but one of many major land scandals involving Thais, including one prominent MP, stealing land from the State and stealing from other Thais.

I think the story about Gates is hogwash anyways. There are far more beautiful and exclusive resorts towards Tahiti. At best it is two rich guys exchanging obligatory pleasantries while complimenting their hosts. Why would these folks want to move their luxury yachts outside the safe harbors between the Greek Islands and the Bahamas? It is one thing for Paul Allen to maybe voyage through these waters with his Navy Frigate sized yacht staffed by a SEAL team, but a more traditional sized luxury yacht would be quite a target.

As for Phuket "becoming more like a Sukumvit down south", I think you are using the wrong verb tense.

Unlike spoken Thai, it's quite possible to learn written Thai from a book.. So that's another option. I'm not sure if there's courses that focus ONLY on written Thai?

If my son was patient enough, I could teach him to read Thai, but as many fellow dads know, sometimes acting as both father and teacher just does not work out too well. I think the YMCA suggestion might be the most convenient and the most flexible given his few months in-country and his desire to expand his social horizons towards the city.

or ไข่พอง

swallen testis (from heat or burnt)

ps. Thank you mangkorn

And should that not have been the obvious translation for a mangkorn?