Johpa

One of my Thai gfs admitted eating elephant steak, it's not just foreigners.

I don't see anything wrong with eating elephant, it's just another animal

(although I don't agree with waste either, they should have eaten it all).

When an elephant was killed in an accident in my [Thai, not Chinese] wife's village in Isaan in the 1970s, everybody ate elephant for awhile. I'm told the flesh was tough, but delicious..

I have spent far more time than most in northern uplands villages where, at least in the past, it was not uncommon to have a few families, including my own family, owning elephants. On the rather rare ocasion when an elephant died unexpectedly, the locals did butcher the animal. Outside of that type of incident, over the past 30 years I have never heard of an elephant being killed for meat. They are worth far more THB alive.

"They cut its tusks, trunk, sexual organ and tail. Those parts must be sold to the middleman and will be sent to restaurants in the main tourist spots like Phuket, Surat Thani and Hua Hin," park head Chaiwat Limlikhitaksorn told AFP.

Yes of course those European tourists in Phuket and the backpackers down in Surat Thani are all just craving for elephant penis meat. And that swinging family resort of Hua Hin is just loaded with restaurants advertising such delicacies. When Thai officials talk such nonsense it inevitably means they are attempting to deflect attention away from their own culpability in the matter.

If you are traveling with a wife or girlfriend then don't miss the fun of the Mae Saap cave just west of Samoeng. The cave may be small, but the added attractions usually usually provide for some good laughs. Take a good flashlight (torch to you subjects of HRM Elizabeth). Chiroptophobes need not apply.

Anyone who can believe that god dictated to a 19th Century man on gold tablets deserves to be called a moron.

This is where people here straddle on religious bigotry. Just because someone believes something that you do not believe does not make them a moron. If that were the case then the entire world becomes moronic, which it seems to be some days, but not because of beliefs. Look, I am an a-theist, I don't believe in any invisible man in the sky. But most of my friends do not share my thoughts as they believe in some sort of theistic deity associated with one myth or another, and the last thing I would call these people are morons. On the contrary, they are for the most part good, caring people, especially the Mormons I have met.

to believe in the absurd is moronic

It is not a subtle difference between the usage of the adjective moronic and the usage of the noun moron. The implication of calling the person who believes what you do not as a "moron" is unjustified and is indeed a sign of bigotry.

Provincial officials said the false prediction caused a drop of 90 per cent in tourist arrivals to Tak during the holiday season, and a loss of Bt400 million (US$13.3 million) in income.

Balderdash. I have been to Tak and there ain't much there. There is no way that people would spend anywhere near that amount of money in Tak. It would take over 400,000 groups of people (Thais always travel in groups) spending TB1,000 on food and lodging (Thais share lodging and eat cheap so a reasonable estimate) to generate that amount of revenue.

Anyone who can believe that god dictated to a 19th Century man on gold tablets deserves to be called a moron.

This is where people here straddle on religious bigotry. Just because someone believes something that you do not believe does not make them a moron. If that were the case then the entire world becomes moronic, which it seems to be some days, but not because of beliefs. Look, I am an a-theist, I don't believe in any invisible man in the sky. But most of my friends do not share my thoughts as they believe in some sort of theistic deity associated with one myth or another, and the last thing I would call these people are morons. On the contrary, they are for the most part good, caring people, especially the Mormons I have met; although I would prefer they alter their breeding habits.

This is when I wish I lived in the US or Europe, because trains never derail or hit other vehicles there. The drivers in the "Westernized" countries are all safe and well trained in operating motor vehicles. Everyone knows not to drive when they are sleepy or when they have been drinking. NOT

Despite the clear irony, the difference is that when trains derail or hit buses in the "west" most of those involved are Caucasians and thus the typical TV poster's neo-sahib latent racism is not put on display.

This is very prime real estate and somebody wants to develop the land. There is probably more to this story than who is collecting the rents from small shop keepers.

You can combine a trip to Baan Tong Luang, which is a hill tribe tourist camp which includes the "long necks" and the Mae Sa Elephant camp, as they are close to each other up the Mae Sa Valley Rd, about 10km west of Mae Rim. There are countless other tourist attractions along that road, all well signed in English. Tong Luang is a bit cheesy, but it is not a human zoo where the inhabitants are locked inside the fence.

Last time I saw a satellite that looked anything like that was in the Buster Crabbe film version of Flash Gordon

My question is how are routes 1349 and 1265? I take it most is unpaved. Is this route safe? Will will be driving a Honda CRV. Any suggestions? Thanks.

There is always some traffic along that road and there are some villages along the route with cell hone towers so just bring some water and snacks. This is not an extreme road with high risks. There are some pretty bumpy paved sections for the first 20 kms heading out of Samoeng beginning just west of Mae Saap. The 40kms west of Bo Kaeo are very good, but then the road becomes dirt for about 40km until just before Wat Chan with a few short but heavily rutted sections. I rode this road twice last month, on a KLX motorcycle, and saw only pickup trucks and larger SUV style cars. You will be able to make it if you drive patiently, but it will be slow going in places. If there has been any heavy rain over the past 48 hours prior to departure then don't even think about it unless you have 4WD. The 1265 from Wat Chan to Pai is paved and presents no problems.

And yes, worth buying the GT-Rider MHS loop map. You can pick up a copy at the X-Center in Mae Rim along the way. That map is incredibly useful for all travel up north.

Business Centers and Desks

Our dedicated Business Centers, which are conveniently located at all consumer branches, offer a wide range of financial and banking services.

Two decades ago?

On the rare occasion my local branch still sends me down to the Chang Puak branch to take care of business. By the way, it was the Bangkok Bank branch's existence which "created" the brief one-way section along Chang Puak Rd.

<rant deleted>..... The little urban scooters simply don't cut it for touring, and they're not nearly as much fun.

Balderdash! I have traveled around the north on both scooters as well as 250 dual sports, both solo and two-up. But then I like to go slow so that I can admire the views and read the signs and smile and talk to the people. I can have just as much fun on the scooters as on the larger bikes. Heck, my son's friends rode down to Phuket from Chiang Mai on their little Vespas and had a blast. In Thailand I can go for a road trip with everything I need for a few days stuffed into one small backpack. As we speak I am planning with some friends to go on an extended scooter trip next year. Sure every bike has some limitations and it would be great if I could afford to bring my WeeStrom over to Thailand. But give me a 125 Dream scooter and some time up north and my fun never ends.

How do you avoid BKK flying EVA, do they fly to CM now?

I believe that the EVA flight to CNX was canceled awhile ago. The new flight on Korean via Seoul may be the only direct connection from North America to CNX.

Be warned that customs in CNX can be a bit more hassle, at least subject more often to inspection, than when entering in BKK. I have never had my luggage inspected in BKK. Other long time residents that I know share the feeling.

Wat Chan, the town, may be the best long term investment region in the north, but apart from the great views getting there, it doesn't have much to offer despite the tremendous relative growth since it officially became an Amphoe a few years ago. The east road from Samoeng is still a bit rough in spots and best traveled in a pickup or 4WD vehicle. The north road from Pai is paved and in good condition. There is also the south all-weather dirt road from the 1263 east of Khun Yuam for the more adventurous and of course to the west is the "elephant trail" for the truly adventurous from Mae Hong Son to Wat Chan.

There are only a few guesthouses up there, but if you like peace and quiet and nature walks and slightly cooler temps then you might like it up there.

Four hours of riding will take you to Cave Lodge past Pai, next day turn left before Khun Yuam, and another 4 hours riding will take you to Mae Chaem

I agree that taking the 1263 from Khun Yuam to Mae Nachon and Mae Chaem is a better alternative to the full loop via Mae Sariang. Well known guest house (Baan Farang) in Khun Yuam, some nice smaller guest houses in Mae Nachon, and several options in Mae Chaem. From Mae Chaem take the back road up to the Doi Inthanon road and then a pretty straight shot back to Chiang Mai unless you want to take another little side trip to Khun Wang and then down to Sanpatong.

Considering these village people make so many things, it would be in their best interest to start making blankets that will keep them warm and last a little longer that a month.

Would it kill the government to take a bus or two up there and take them to a shelter for the coldest part of the season?

Cavemen survived the cold. So do homeless people in Chicago and New York in the dead of winter (where it's really cold). And that's all that needs to be said about that.

I reckon that speaking may not be your only disability. You need right understanding and right thought before you can speak.

Upland minority people have been dying from these cold spells for countless generations. The garments they do make are made from cotton or hemp and have little insulating properties. The "cavemen" that you refer to lived in northern climates where they hunted large game and used the fur for insulating against the cold, and such game is not existent in Southeast Asia. Homeless people in North America also die every year from exposure to the cold, especially those without donated used parkas and other clothing necessary to survive lower temps. And as for buses, I guess you haven't visited many highland villages apart from the easily reachable and thus highly atypical villages such as Doi Pui or Mae Sa Mai where these is little need to distribute blankets. In other words, if you can reach a highland village by bus, or even by car, then you are unlikely to see a need for blankets. Thus we can ignore the logistical nightmare, the impossibility, of transporting the thousands of people distributed over the breadth of Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, and Mae Hong Son on relatively short notice during these cold spells.

Most of these blankets are distributed to piss poor minority villages up in the hills. They are "emergency" blankets of rather poor quality and they do not, nor are they designed, to survive long. After a few washings or being hung out, even under cover, during the many months of rain, they become useless as blankets. It is not just blankets as clothing does not last all that long either in these environments where there are no storage closets in the homes. Despite the musings seen here by comfortably ensconced neo-Sahib city dwellers, you will not find such used blankets being re-sold in town markets.

These very cold temperatures do not happen every year, last year was a relatively warm "cold season", and thus the blankets rarely survive till the next instance of relatively extreme cold. And rest assured, few of you would be able to sleep in a typical highland home when the temps get below even 15° C. As others have noted, once the temps get close to 10° C we see fatalities related to the cold amongst the elderly, infirm, and very young. So it is just so nice to see so many of our brave TV posters castigate both their host donor government as well as castigate the piss poor recipient highland farmers over a 100 baat emergency blanket.

Full of inacurracies and fantasy too many to mention.,And I suggest you research the history of Tibet, part of China

I suggest you stop drinking the Beijing Kool-Aid. Just because the Chinese were able to take control of Siam without firing a single shot or sending a single troop, thus creating the most southern Monthorn, does not eradicate the fact that they occupied Tibet via a military exercise. So we have this purportedly Theravada Buddhist nation, Thailand, kowtowing to its Confucian masters in Beijing, and not allowing the Dalai Lama to set foot in the Kingdom. Or more recently two weeks ago, at Payap University up north on the student's "International Day" the students from both Tibet and Taiwan were forced, at the last minute, to take down their food booths so as not to offend the oh so easily offended consulate officer from Beijing.

Would that be the road that leads to Wing 41...

Yes, I believe it is the same road to the airport.

I was recently taken to a Shan noodle shop near the Ton Payom market, a shop noted early in this thread and then never mentioned again. The acquaintance who took myself and my Burmese-American friend to this shop was a Thai doctor who has works extensively in Shan areas for many years. The Shan tofu noodle dishes were excellent, both the soft and the fried versions of tofu. The noodle shop is located down the first street that heads southward east of the canal road, just east of the market. That street intersects Suthep Rd at the Chiang Mai University Art Center. The shop is on the right when heading south, about 100 down from Suthep Rd. Don't know the name, but just look for a sign in Thai, Burmese, and Chinese. They also have an English menu on the wall.

Once being introduced to such food by knowledgeable people, I also was shown a similar noodle shop in the back of the morning market of Mae Hong Song. This Shan noodle shop is reputed to be known throughout Burma. I ended up sitting next to a Burmese professor who teaches in Bangkok. We both laughed that the Asian tourists, and MHS is a mecca for Asian tourism, were busy taking pictures of us eating from this market stall.

I will first rent on a weekly basis an automatic like the Click or Wave(is there a fully-automatic Wave?), then move on to a bigger and heavier automatic like the PCX. After some ride, I will switch to a Wave/Dreamer with gear and clutch.

I have been riding here off and on for nearly 30 years now, actually learned to ride on these local mountain dirt roads. You do not sound like a hard core rider so my advice, to repeat what others have said, would be to skip the full autos and just get the semi-auto 125cc Dream. It has been, and remains, the most versatile scooter for those same past three decades. It has the strength (torque), and the tire options, to get you up the steeper mountain roads (just ask any Thai elementary school teacher posted to a more remote village)as well as get you up most of the unpaved roads (marvel at the Mong kids riding circles around Farangs atop high KLXs, including your truly) and is indeed one of the most reliable two-wheelers ever designed. And there is no clutch. It is marvel of engineering.

For what it is worth, the plans are for a 4-lane divided highway between Chiang Mai and Mae Hong Son via Wat Chan. Just about the time the last section of the Samoeng-Wat Chan road is paved it will start to become somewhat obsolete.

I drove the road last week on a KLX. I do not recommend it at the moment. The road from Samoeng up to Bo Kaeo is very potholed. The road past Bo Kaeo for the next 40km is very good. But once the pavement ends the rains have created a heavily rutted road for the next 35km to the outskirts of Wat Chan where the pavement begins again. That section is probably not possible in a sedan, only a pickup truck, and even then it is slow going. The paved road is fine from Wat Chan down to Pai. Too bad because when the unpaved section is in better condition it is a great option to Pai.

Had my ol' orange 78 Honda XL125 go submarine during the floods of 1987 up in CNX. Labor is still cheap in Thailand so take it to a shop to "yok khruang", take the engine apart, and dry everything out, take a good gander, and then maybe put it back together again. You should be able to get it going unless you got some serious corrosion in places. You may have to replace things like the seat and possibly the gas tank. But my old Border Police ride was a much simpler affair, kick start and all, then these more modern bikes so maybe yours is toast. You might just want to sell it cheap and let someone else try to fix it. It is all just part of living in Thailand.